00MaxSE

iTrader: (25)

What kind of gas does everyone use? I've been using Sunoco 92 because I have their MasterCard that gives me a 2 or 3% rebate on every purchase. But I saw that Sunoco's gas uses 10% ethanol and in our Owner's manual it says that using gas with more than 10% of that ethanol can cause fuel system damage. So, is it saying that Maximas don't like ethanol? All my friends say that Shell is the best gas out there and that their gas doesn't have any ethanol in it at all. It's just 100% gasoline. I've only been using Sunoco because it saves me money and it's usually cheaper anyway. Usually around 1.50 - 1.53/gal for 92 octane. Should I switch to Shell? I hear that the Ammoco Ultimate at BP is good. Doesn't that have ethanol though? Or does anyone know how much ethanol is in BP/Ammoco, or Speedway, or anything like that?

CRMax

More than 10% ethanol is bad. Every gas station I've seen has been at 10%. I think you will see just about every car maker say don't use more than 10% ethanol. I use Mobil's 92 and it has 10% also. You are fine with the Sunoco.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

Ethanol is bad for rubber hoses. If there is too much it can disolve the fuel lines and gaskets inside the injectors. The only reason they put ethanol in gas is becasue it burns cleaner which is supposed to reduce emissions. The problem is that fuel systems aret designed to use high concentrations of the stuff and it simply doesn't make as much power or BTUs as regular gasoline. Another problem is that ethanol has a much lower stociometric ratio than gasoline which is liek 12:1 or less. This is bad becasue you have to inject more ethanol into the combustion chamber than gasoline for the amount of air you have.
The stuff is reducing emissions but it is also costing you more money becasue it's reducing your gas mileage, slightly leaning out your effective fuel mixture and robbing you of precious hp.

GimmeTorq

As far as I know, Shell and Amoco/BP do have ethanol too, at least in IL.

BuddyWh

All vehicles made for the North American market are warranted compatible for fuels with up to 10% ethanol, that includes our Maxima. It could use higher than 10% (E10) but modifications might be required, especially if over 15% (E15)... and you might not find it in the US anyway. Brazil uses E85- up to 85% ethanol- fuels in their vehicles.

Ethanol is a very good octane enhancer. To extract maximum fuel value from high-ethanol fuels, it's generally better to have a high compression engine.

Rubber parts in any car made since the early 80's are compatible, so there should be no problem with our Max's. Unless someone has put in poor quality replacement hoses.

Some factual information:

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/factfic_enperf.html
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/pdf/DAI970201.pdf

BuddyWh

KaxMaxSEAE

Not picking on you SR20DEN, since you're just spouting the advertised hype...
Pffft. This is commonly known now as oxygenated gas. If you live in a population center, you're either using MTBE or ethanol as an oxygenate. If you live in the midwest, then you're probably using ethanol. You may thank the EPA and the corn lobby for this...

(Oh, and someone please cite me *ANY* study that says that oxygenated gas helps reduce emmissions. Any *UNBIASED* study.)

Quote:

The stuff is reducing emissions but it is also costing you more money becasue it's reducing your gas mileage, slightly leaning out your effective fuel mixture and robbing you of precious hp.

The 'reducing emissions' part is bullsh!t. (And if you live in an area that uses MTBE, I'd check your ground water. MTBE is famous for leaching into the ground water.) And it's not only costing you more because of less power in the gas, but to pay off the farmers and the infrastructure to formulate the gas you use in your area.

It used to be that companies added ethanol, 'cause it was a cheap octane enhancer. Now, that same cheap ethanol is costing you more money, since it's now a government mandate. (It's the same ethanol that pushes the price of gas in Chicago up and over $2.00 a gallon, since we can't use the same formulation that's used 40 miles away...)

Total rip-off.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

LOL.... chill dude. Im aware of the farmers trying hard to sell their corn gas. At least it helps them somewhat. I said supposed to reduce emissions and if you claim it hasn't then perhaps you've done research on the subject so I won't argue that point. It seems that we both agree that the stuff is crap and really cost the consumer more money.
We in Charlotte probably get the same or similar formulation of gas that you guys get. The gas is garbage, expensive and gets poor mileage compared to the stuff just 20 miles out of town. Only we don't have alot of wind here to blow our smog away. It just lingers . At least we aren't as smoggy as Atlanta, you can cut theirs with a knife sometimes.

BuddyWh

Since when has the lack of a complete, scientific, study stopped environmentalists from making such claims? Case in point... R-12 (and other CFC's) elimination, "green house gasses" and CO2 emissions, specifically from the evil, industrialized USA (which gives the world over half of it's food in the process, they always conveniently forget.)

One observation: we really have the California Air Resource Board (CARB) to thank for the MTBE debacle. They pushed adoption of it as an oxygenate in CA, nearly poisoning their own state in the process, and setting a trend other environmental agencies rushed to follow. Including the Clinton-era EPA. Now, ethanol shortages induced by the rush to eliminate MTBE from fuels, especially in CA, is jacking the price of ethanol additives nationwide until sufficient distilling capacity is brought on line.

In truth, though, I can think of at least one common sense environmental benefit from use of ethanol: it is a renewable fuel that does not require exploration, drilling and transportation of oil to exploit. With every 20 gallon tankup of E10, I use two gallons less petroleum gasoline so 3-4 gallons less oil has to be pumped out of the ground to replace it. That puts off the need to drill another well or explore another oil field. It shouldn't take any kind of study to see the environmental benefit from that.

Oh yeah: and it also means up to $3 less going overseas to an OPEC country!

BuddyWh

Maxima06071

HEY!, hold on a second.
Don't go and blame the Farmers, maybe it's the auto industry fault for not making cars capable of effectivly useing ethanol? Maybe it's the oil industry up to another one of their conspiracies? But! Don't blame the farmers while their broke asses sweat out in the field harvesting food for us at incredibly low-ball wages! Don't say anything negative about farmers with your mouth full of food!

GimmeTorq

I don't think KaxMaxSEAE is blaming farmers. He's just stating that since it's a govenrment mandate to produce and use reformulated gas in certain areas and there is no way around it, the cost of doing so is passed to the consumers by the oil companies. Part of that cost is associated with paying for the machinery and the man power needed to produce the corn that will be used to generate ethanol.

00MaxSE

iTrader: (25)

Hmm... Do you know how much ethanol is in Shell gas? I know that BP has ethanol.

GimmeTorq

Straight from their site FAQ:

"My car’s owner’s manual recommends limits on amounts of oxygenates in gasolines. How much oxygenate (MTBE or ethanol) is in FormulaShell gasolines?

When oxygenates are added to FormulaShell gasolines, the amount never exceeds that recommended by car makers (15 % by volume MTBE, and 10 % by volume ethanol). Usually the amount added is less than the above figures. Amounts are adjusted seasonally, and to provide optimum gasoline properties for best vehicle performance. Generally oxygenates are only used where required by governmental regulations."

MaximaMan77

I had heard, I think on the radio or local tv news, that these were "summer blends" that are in use during the high smog and ozone months of the year and are mainly in used in larger cities. And was started by not only the EPA but many states like Illinois, New York and Cali. To later be adopted by most of the rest of the states with large cities, over 1MM people. Here in Atlanta it started about 3 or 4 years ago and boy has it really helped are air quality during the summer months.

As far as I know if you live in or around a larger city it doesn't matter where you go to get gas they all have ethanol in their fuel.

So not only do we have heat robbed HP but added to that we are being robbed by the gas too. It doesn't make much sense to dyno your car this time of the year. I wonder how far out of the city you have to go to get regular gas? It's not something I would do all of the time but if your going to the track or are gonna race somone you might want to run your tank dry heading out of the city to fill up.

It also makes me think. What about companies, like Warpspeed, that are testing new aftermarket parts. How accurate do you think their dynos are?

00MaxSE

iTrader: (25)

How many of you guys wait until your low fuel light comes on before going to fill up? If I see that gas is cheap somewhere, I usually just fill up even if I have more than half a tank left.

ABS

I would like to clarify a few points made in this thread:

1. Ethanol DOES help to oxygenate fuel and is most effective at reducing emissions when starting cold engines. In the North East, we usually see MTBE (or ethanol) in use during winter months, not summer. It does make sense to use MTBE or Ethanol in high smog areas all year round.

2. Ethanol DOES clean fuel injectors, valves and comubustion chambers. Truckers know that they should get a few tanks of fuel with Ethanol on each cross country trip to help keep their engines running clean.

3. Ethanol DOES not pollute the environment like MTBE does - ground water pollution for example. It is a much better option than MTBE for this reason alone.

4. President Carter and the farmer lobby's supported research into SynFuels such as Ethanol. President Reagan cut SynFuel programs.

5. If a 100% organically produced and inexpensive fuel could be developed, it would help our economy by reducing dependency on the Middle East for high priced oil.

5. Use of organic SynFuel, like Ethanol, help the U.S. agriculture and farm industries. This is important since we depend upon our farmers for food already. Need for SynFuels would serve to solidify Federal/National support for farmers.

6. SynFuels like Ethanol burn more cleanly than fossil fuels with less particulate matter and fewer, NOx and CO emissions.

7. All current fuel additives which help to oxygenate fossil fuels reduce emissions by improving the combustion effiency of the engine and the catalyst activity in the catalytic converter(s).

Thanks for listening.

SHPatel

iTrader: (1)

I heard from my old mechanic to never let it go past the 1/4 mark. He said it's not good for the fuel pump and that by filling it up before the 1/4 mark would prolong the life of it.