MAXRAY

i've read multiple posts about waiting until about 10k before switching to synthetic oil. why? high end cars such as mercedes and bmw come w/ synthetic from the factory?

Young04

you're going to get everyone telling you different things...some will say at 3K, it's fine. others will say wait til 10. i didn't bother weighing the pros and cons, and took a compromise of the two pieces of advide and switched over to a synthetic at around 6000 miles.

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

It's a holdover from the old days, just like the 3000 mile drain interval. Like you noted, some new cars are broken in on synthetic and they're just fine. What I wouldn't do is extend the drain interval significantly on a new engine.

GimmeTorq

I agree. Everybody follows a "different book", either because of experience or because they've read or heard it from somebody else. I decided to do it at 5k. My only considerations were doing it after the break-in period, as published in the user manual (first 1000 miles). I was also looking at keeping the engine internal as free of sludge/varnish as possible by switching early in the engine life.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Actually, it's the VQ. My personal experience tells me it doesn't break-in fully until about 10k......with synthetics early on, you are looking at an even longer period until break-in.

Deven2kStickMax

explain why at 6000 miles. what's the differences?

Young04

no real explanation...people were telling me 3k, and others were telling me 10k. i just figured i'd do a little of both. i did change my oil at 1000, though. that's supposed to flush out a lot of particles. in the end, i'm sure it really doesn't matter a whole lot.

DrVolkl

I started putting synthetic blend in my car at 4k miles. 2nd oil change....I dunno, I don't think there is any true "golden rule". It's not like any testing has been done at nissan, where one max is broken in and the other isn't...

As for break in periods, you might as well forget about it. How many people have test driven a car and beaten the crap out of it with 18 miles on the odo? Don't even get me started on how the salespeople drive the car or the shop guys when they're new.

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

Bill,

Let me ask you this. Since we agree that the engine will break in on a synthetic, it will just take longer, why would it be a bad thing to have an engine with 15K on it before it's fully broken in?? You enjoy the extra benefits of a synthetic from an early age and have an engine with 15K miles on it that's equivalent to a "younger" motor in terms of wear.

sascuderi

My 95 Max and 2000 I30 where both placed on a diet of synthetic at 800 miles!

srbarnes4ever

Could this be why I'm experiencing such high wear metal rates in my Blackstone analysis? I switched over to synthetic at the 1800 mile mark IIRC. Please give me some good news...or rather hopeful news Bill!?!?

sascuderi

According to the Mobil 1 web site, you can start using Synthetic on day one:

"Which of the following statements is true regarding new-vehicle break-in mileage and Mobil 1 with SuperSynTM?

A. You should drive your new vehicle for 1,000 miles on conventional oil before switching to Mobil 1

B. You can use Mobil 1 immediately

C. You should drive your new vehicle for six months on conventional oil before switching to Mobil 1

D. None of the above "

Correct answer is B.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Gander at it this way: Say you change with synthetic every 3k instead of dino every 3k for the first 20k or so.

The longer you have elevated levels of iron, lead, etc., in the oil the longer it will remain in the crankcase. The longer they stay in the crankcase, the greater likelihood you will artifically elevate those levels as well as your viscosity reading, and that will have an effect on the oxidation rate of new oil that goes in because of the other metals.

The quicker you break the motor in, the quicker regular dino oil changes "wash" those metals out. With the quicker break-in, you'll get one or two oil changes to just "wash" out the crankcase in general. Synthetics will take longer to allow the engine to break-in, thus keeping higher levels of metals floating around in the crankcase that is unnecessary.

The best empirical proof of this is a couple of Acuras in the next spreadsheet update due soon that went to synthetics WAY early on the J32 V6s. They are at or over 30k and STILL have very high levels of wear metals, even higher than is normally customary for the J32s anyway.


I could be yanking your chain, but even with dino oil changes, my VQ didn't seem "right" until after 10k. Unfortunately, I have no empirical proof of this, just driveability and fuel economy gains after 10k or so.......

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Stevie,

That's my theory with your car, especially given you went Mobil 1 at 1800 miles, and then Amsoil at 6,000 with relatively long drain intervals. Your lead count went down by half on that last sample, and other metals were down as well. However, like I told iwannabmw right above, your viscosity remained relatively high at 65.6 for a 30-weight oil, which is why I am postulating that going synthetic early is probably not the best idea in a VQ.

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

Considering all the above, I would love to see analysis results on cars that come form the factory with synthetic oil in them to compare them to the others. Those should prove interesting.

Maybe it was mad at you for calling it a "minima"

kramerica72

Synthetic oils are such good lubricants that really never break down. A new engine running synthetic doesn't have the ability for metal parts like rings to seat properly, and down the road you are looking at oil consumption. Do yourself a favor and let your engine break in on tradition oil before switching to Mobil 1.

Virus

iTrader: (1)

I've always switched my cars to synthetic after 2 or 3k and have never had a problem with oil consumption. I changed my Maxima at 1900k. So far it doesn't burn any oil. I switched my Honda Civic at 300 miles to Amsoil 5w30 and kept the car for a couple hundred thousand miles without any problems.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

The issue won't be from/cause oil consumption per se, rather the apparent inability to run extended drain intervals. If you are a Jiffy Lube oil interval person, this is not likely to matter, as the acidity from the wear metals built up over time will not have an impact on a quality synthetic after only 3000 miles. However, I would bet that your viscosity reading and a couple of wear metal levels are elevated and higher than normal.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

I didn't start calling it a Minima until AFTER break-in.

I was still under the impression I bought a quality/well-assembled car.

nick778

I believe the issue of valve and ring seating was much more an issue 8-10+ years ago and was indeed valid then. Engine manufacturing and metallurgy has come a long way and today's engines are manufactured to much tighter tolerances with better/stronger metal compounds. Witness the use of synthetics among higher end OEM cars that can pass on the cost of a synthetic factory fill, longer warranty periods for engines and valvetrains and even OEM 8K+ mile drain intervals with synthetic.
Even the so called break-in period is more related to heating and cooling cycling than valve seating and shaving off pieces of metal from impercise manufacturing.
So, IMHO, I would recommend switching to a high quality synthetic after the 1000 mile 'break-in' period.

Anachronism

Is it possible that cars that come with synthetic from the factory are designed/built differently?

theblue

from what I understand the oil in a new car is normally a speacial "break in" blend and you should wait until 5K at the min to switch to synthetic (for the reasons bill gave). While you won't kill your car, you will do more harm than good by using synthetic early...

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

In my limited experience, I know Ford and Honda use similar break-in oils, with its primary extra additive being molybdenum. I'm unaware of Nissan using any special break-in oil.....

nick778

Moly reduces friction like a ...synthetic oil, and perhaps even more so. This would seem to argue for switching to a synthetic sooner rather than later it would seem, at least in cars from those OEMs.
I still fail to see the basis for waiting 5K+ miles to switch on newer model cars.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Since know one really knows for SURE if it's okay or not, then what's the big deal with waiting?? What's 10k?? If you engine lives to 100k, that only 10% of it's life. If 200k, it's 5%.

You guys seem really eager to run the RISK of an inproper break-in just for a measly 5% of the engine's total life. Which even if you use normal dino oil is perfectly okay anyway.

I think there is a difference in engine's built to run synthetics from the get go than engines that have dino oil when new.

If you guys want to run that type of risk just to attempt to reduce the wear by some miniscule amount go ahead.

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

I do not believe in "The break in period". My last 2 cars were purchased brand new. 1989 Honda Prelude SI and my current 1999 Maxima SE.

Both car were driven hard, and I'm talking red line on day one. I payed no attention to any breaking in at all. I didn't even read what Nissan recomended. I showed off the VQ power to my buddies on a regular basis when I baught the Maxima. Basicall I had no mercy on either motor. I did drive it smart though, giving the brakes time to set up and not beating on it until everything was up to operating temp.

The results -

The Honda - Blackstone labs always gave me a good report. The usual high copper levels for a Honda motor were present. The car ran like a champ, and NEVER USED A DROP OF OIL in 170,000 miles I owned it. It never even leaked a drop anywhere. As far as I was concerned, it was a flawless running engine.

Maxima - I'll quote Bill here - "You have one of the cleanest VQ's on record" Enough Said.

Both cars had 3K oil changes, Castrol GTX 10W-30 was used from the first 1,000 mile change forward. My Maxima was converted to Amsoil about 6 months ago.

I'm not so sure I totally agree with the break in periods. Some say take it easy on it but some guys on here don't take there cars past 3K RPM's for the first 1,000 miles personally, I think thats B.S. I say drive it normally and if you want to see how it goes, open that baby up!

TimW

iTrader: (6)

Oh god, not another break in thread..

Honda <> Nissan <> Toyota <> Ford and so on.

Everyone (you'd think) knows the VQ makes the most HP somewhere between 6,000-10,000 miles. Hence 'break-in' for the motor. Look in the reviews of the maxima in the mags, they wanted a car with some miles.

Break-in is insurance, plain and simple. There is the high likelihood that nothing would break down the road.. God knows the salespeople totally beat alot of the cars on the lot before sold.

then again, you could be at 100K and need to keep 3 qts of oil in the trunk for a long trip.

srbarnes4ever

[QUOTE]Originally posted by njmaxseltd


Both car were driven hard, and I'm talking red line on day one.
The results -

Did you say redline from Day 1?!?! Maybe I've been too easy on mine then cause its all high as hell on the wear metals and I changed over at 1800 miles to synthetics.....Lucky me and my VQ....

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

You are required to share your Hon-duh Blackstone results with me ASAP.

Have you held out Maxima analyses on me as well?



Didn't you use Castrol Syntec from 36 to 40k? Did you use Castrol Syntec again from 40k to when you changed to Amsoil 6 months ago?

Your oil changes and it being changed consistently are the primary reason you have such a clean VQ. Keep it up.