After having the worst possible day:
see thread:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....hreadid=149459


I had a plus... After my incident, the tottally cool mechanic hooked up my car to a consult and advanced my timing 3 degrees from -1 to +2 on my 2k2 Max SE 6speedHLSD.. He says taht when you advances it anymore than that, the ECU will pull back the timing so too much is not beneficial.. NO CHARGE OF COURSE>..

Initially i didn't feel any power difference, however when i hit the highway boy the car pulls harder (not crazy hard) but harder in 6th gear..

IT turns out that i don't have to downshift as much, and using a higher gear at lower speeds is now possible. I feel because i upshift a lot more sooner i see better fuel economy too!!

Post your feedbacks or questions..

ED

 

Sounds cool and all, but I'm not understanding what -1 to +2 means.

The base timing is supposedly 15*. I'm guessing the stock -1 means that the current timing is sitting at 14* due to 1* of retarded timing(ie it's backed off 1*). So, your currently at 17* ADC.

Anybody think this theory holds water?

 

Not sure, on the CONSULT tool, it started by saying TIMING = -1 degrees.

So we moved it to TIMING=+2 degrees...

ED

 

in the old days before computer-controlled ignitions (read: the days of distributors) one of the fave mods was to either reset (advance) static timing and/or play with the distributor advance curves (vaccum + centrifugal advances) -either way to add more ignition advance which would ALWAYS add more mid-range torque and a few horsies on the top end.

Is this tool/process resetting only the initial advance/timing or does this timing 'bump' sustain itself thru the whole RPM range? If yes, this is equivalent to half of what any ECU upgrade (chip) does...mod the ignition advance curve to get more power/torque.

And for you that dont know what -1 to +2 means, it means the static ignition setting is advanced three degrees from the previous setting, most likely from one degree after top dead center to two degrees before top dead center...TCD being when piston #1 reaches the highest point in its travel within the cylinder.

Please find out for us if this advance sustains itself thru the full RPM range...if yes, I definitely wanna find out how I can do this...which tool, does any dealer have it, etc.

 

..

 

 

I doubt that base timing would be 0 TDC. That would really limit power. Ideally, would would want the mixture to fire before top dead center, as the piston is still moving up. Most cars I have seen are set at 10 BTDC. Advancing it 2 degrees would be 12 BTDC (Before Top Dead Center)

 

Sure about that?

The base ignition timing is supposedly 15* BTDC. So, I'd assume he WAS at 14* and now he's at 17*.

 

TDC...that's the normal reference point against which to set timing....yes, the reference point as Nissan has it could be anything...point is that it was one degree after whatever the reference point was, now it's two degrees ahead of whatever the reference point was.

 

My engine was pinging when it got hot outside and the dealer had to retard the timing so the pinging would go away....it sucks, I lost power

 

^^^^^^^^^~~~~~ That is the correct answer.

 

Galo, I wouldn't say i'm a novice when it comes to cars, but I am often very surprised by the knowledge people have on the org. I was lost, but now i'm found... isn't that part of a song they sing in church?? It's been a while

 

So isn't this what we needed a aftermarket ECU for..... to retard your timing..among other things?

 

Depends. You don't really want to RETARD the timing unless your running boost or N20.

Most aftermarket ECUs ADVANCE the timing and adjust the A/F ratio curve throughout the RPM range(read maximize at each RPM point).

Using the Consult II, MiniRX7 only advanced the base timing, which probably adjust the timing 3* at all RPMs.

 

I imagine that the stock ECU has a good safety margin built into it. If you alter the baseline like in this case, you probably won't be able to safely put regular gas in the car without risking detonation. Does anyone know what range the ECU has to play with when it comes to timing?

 

Right... running some type of boost was understood...for retard timing.

But an aftermarket ECU would allow you to go either way depending on your set up right? A few VW, and Toyota owners that I know are allowed to go both ways.

 

There was an article on this in some newspaper back in 96 when the Ford 4.6L V8 came out. The engine could retard timing in the event of ping, however, it could move the timing forward to take advantage of higher octane fuel. This was true in my 97 F-150, I always got the best power/mpg with 93.

 

Nissan and he confirmed the timing 'bump' holds through the full RPM range. Based on that I scheduled an appointment to have this done tomorrow -charge is $75 bucks....that's fair for essentially half of what a upgraded ECU would do -which is typically remapped ignition and fuel delivery curves.

I will start with the same three degree bump that MiniRX7 did...since I use Chevron exclusively I dont expect any detonation/pinging problems, moreso with cool weather coming.

Will post results tomorrow evening.

Thanks, MiniRX7..great news, appreciate it.

 

What octane gas can you buy?

I can only buy 91-crap, so if you can get 93+ octane on a regular basis I'd up it to 18-19* minimum. Then I'd go for a test drive and lug the engine(put it in too high a gear) while accelerating up a hill with the AC on. Basically, test it with the maximum possible load. If you hear ANY pinging, go back and have him back it off a degree or two. Of course, this all depends on if he's going to charge you another $75, but from your statement it sounds like you guys are on good terms.

SR20 guys bump their timing up from 15* to 20* I believe, but MUST have 92+ octane fuel.

 

We need dyno #s!

 

This would be one of the EASIEST black&white dyno comparison EVER. That's only IF you could get the Nissan guy to bring the Consult-II to the dyno shop though.

Think about it. Put the car on the dyno. Make 2-3 baseline pulls. Then advance the base timing and make a few more pulls until you get detonation. Then back it off a degree or two.

No different days, weather, ECU relearning BS to induce error.

 

I will ask him tomorrow on the 'if I need to come back does it mean another 75 clams?' question...if not I will try four degrees & follow the worst-case test.

I feel that five may just be too much...my own experience with timing changes (on old distributors) on fairly high-compression cars make me leery of going past four degrees. Also, here in the Northwest I'm limited to 92 octane so...between three and four and I'll be happy...

 

Galo - Let us know how it goes!

 

According to the Nissan FSM the ignition timing should be 15°±2° BTDC (transmission in "P" or "N" and TPS harness connector disconnected).

I'd much rather be at 17° than 13° BTDC! I think I'll schedule an appointment with my local dealer to make sure!

 

Does this timing advance only work for 2k2's?

Galo, when you go could you ask if it will work on 2K/2K1's.

 

hmmmm.... i checked my timing today... the spark advance at idle with a warm engine is like 11° but that is with the TPS connected.... I wonder how disconnecting the TPS changes it

anyhow, I wouldn't mind getting mine bumped to like 17 or 18 also... I use 93 octane gas only

Edit: has anyone else measured what their timing was using an OBD-II scanner? Just curious....

 

Yes we did and it made TONS of extra torque at the low end.

 

I posted about this a month ago when I went browsing through the ECU with a Nissan Consult II diagnostic tool. Mine was set to -1.

Stereodude

 

Your post was the first one I thought of when he mentioned this. I don't remember you telling us you were at -1. I will soon be dealing with another Tech at the dealer that probably knows more about the Consult II than the last tech I delt with. I'll have them put mine all the way up to +4 or +5 if it will go.

 

2 questions

Is the -1,1,2,etc actually degrees, or timing units, or timing maps???? Or is this used to set baseline timing(degrees) at the factory to make up for assembly line tolerances?
Don't automatically assume that it is degrees. 1 degree increments sucks. I ran my old max and my beater sentra 10 degrees advanced on 92 octane with no problems and my Mazda runs 15(soon to be 20) degrees advanced. It is almost impossible to feel a 1 degree change in timing. Hell, I could barely feel a 5 degree timing change and is why I run 10+ advanced, because it is noticeable.

What you need to research with the consult2 is whether automatics/6speeds/euro/SAmerica/export/import/Altima/Maxima/350z/Pathfinder/Infinitis/....../whatever comes with which stock timing maps. Or, you need to hook up an accurate timing device and map your timing and compare it with various Consult settings.
Something so simple as a -1 or -2 or +1 might be the difference between the 240hp, 255hp, 260hp, 287hp.........

 

First, apologize for not posting Saturday as I had promised..I logged on Saturday PM after the demon tweak only to find my home PC with a crashed drive...because I had been in the office all Saturday morning I left my laptop here so I was 'incommunicado' all weekend.

Anyway, here's the short scoop. First, it's a 15-20 minute job at most so I got charged half-hour shop rate, 37 bucks. Second it's easy as heck..just plug the Consult II up, page down the menus until u get to ignition timing adjust and just stroke some keys.

Yes, the 'stock' timing is 15 degrees BTDC. My tech was actually curious as heck to see this happening as no one in Beaverton Nissan had done this before (to his knowledge) so he hooked up a timing light so we (I was in the shop with him) could see the timing change as we stroked the keys..yes, you can see the timing change!

And to that, we only increased three degrees because on the 4th degree the timing became somewhat irregular...as if the computer was attempting to go to 4 degrees but some other parameter in the ECU was attempting to pull it back so we left it at 3 degrees of added advance.

No pulls to redline yet after this but the car definitely feels stronger in the mid-range...more fluidly torquey, if u will. It's specially noticeable between 2k and 3.5k rpms -right in the 'around- town driving' sweet spot. No pinging, no detonation, everything else is fine. Thanks again, MiniRX7

 

Good points.

Now if we can just get Ethan to download the 350Z code to his ECU we could really have some fun!

The Altima guys should be all over this. I would bet they could easily be bumped up to 255hp by just "upgrading" the ECU program.

 

have you used your ODB-II scan tool to measure the timing? That would be a pretty accurate way to do so and you can get some nice plots of your timing at different rpms.... now all we need is a Consult-II to play with

 

Altima guys all over what? There is no HP difference between the Altima and the Maxima. Read the dyno graphs and you'll see.

 

It degrees - see a few posts up. Spec timing advance on the max is 15°±2° .

 

Wow i never knew my post would grow..

Ever since my drag strip runs, my car is acting funny..

Today its almost as if the timing is being retarded.. (loss of power)..

Wehn i first advanced it 3 degrees, i felt more power in the lower end.. however it seems the engine has learned something and tuned it back..

ITs weird sensation.. When i floor it in 2nd or 3rd, it bogs then accelerates.. this never happened before so i don't know whether it was because of the timing advance.

But i am glad you guys are going to do this mod, so we all have something in common.

Interestingly, i never paid anything to get it done.. THe techy at ALTA NISSAN jsut decided that since i was looking for performance he would hook me up..

ED

 

Any news on how your car is acting.

I just got it done to my altima.

 

for this forum?

 

I read this entire thread and then searched, but I couldn't find the answer to my questions. So could somebody please clear these up, so I can understand this thread. Cuz it sounds like a worthwhile mod.

What is "Pinging","Detonation","Retard","Advance"

What is the diff between pinging and detonation?

I think I understand Retard and Advance, Retard lowers the timing, and Advance increases the timing. But what exactly does that mean, what mechanically happens in your engine when you advance/retard the timing.

Thanks

 

http://www.misterfixit.com/deton.htm
http://www.hastingsmfg.com/Service%2...reignition.htm

http://www.tpub.com/basae/46.htm
http://www.centuryperformance.com/timing.htm