Larry

A couple months back I sent WarpSpeed Performance an email expressing my willingness to volunteer as WarpSpeed's "Test Monkey" for their new 2002 Maxima Y & B pipes. I was then contacted by Dallas, owner of WarpSpeed. He indicated that a prototype was being built and asked if I would be the first to test and evaluate the pipes for him on my 2K2 Maxima. I readily agreed. After they were pre-installed on a rental car at his shop, they were removed and sent to me.

The pipes came in a large box, well packaged and protected. The quality of packaging became evidence of the quality of product to come. All welds were top notch and all bends nice and smoothly mandrel bent.

WarpSpeed will offer 2 1/4" and 2 1/2" B pipes with and without resonator. I elected for the 2 1/2" B pipe without resonator.

I took pics before the install, did a little weighing and visually inspecting all parts. All tubing in my kit was aluminumized steel. I understand there will be stainless steel in the offering for production units. Had I the opportunity I would probably have opted for the stainless but this aluminized tubing should last pretty well. The entire system weighed 3 pounds less than my factory exhaust however my factory exhaust does have a resonator. Here's a pic of the complete assembly before installation:
http://www.mustangmods.com/publish/8...rpSpeedY&B.JPG

I wanted to be able to report first hand to Dallas my findings regarding easy of installation and any other problems I might incur so I decided I would do the install myself. I did have a little tweaking to do as with any prototype product in development. With Dallas's help we worked through my concerns. All production units will have the necessary revisions so these babies should bolt right up.

At the same time I installed these pipes I also removed the small pipe leading to the muffler and added a 2 1/2" pipe as shown here. I ground out the portion leading into the muffler entrance to remove the tubing ring left after sawing. The muffler is now 2.06 ID verses a small 1.77 with the original factory pipe. The 2 1/2" tubing fit over the OD of the remaining muffler hub nicely. See pic.
http://www.mustangmods.com/publish/8850//mufflers.JPG

I would highly recommend this mod or an aftermarket catback to fully maximize flow capability of the Y & B pipes. Should you go with an aftermarket muffler you might want the resonator pipe if you want to keep that noise level under control. With this factory muffler and without a resonator, a slight rumble is all you can hear. My system is quiet. Probably less rumble than many vehicle factory exhausts.

No SES light beaming my way, no bees in the can sound. Idle quality is perfect! No engine vibrations or noises other than a slight exhaust rumble as previously noted.

Here is my engine dyno results before and after WarpSpeed's pipes:
http://www.mustangmods.com/publish/8...0Maxima%20Dyno
http://www.mustangmods.com/publish/8850//max005006G.jpg

Dyno 002 is my bone stock engine with factory air filter in place. 003 is with the factory air filter assembly removed from the factory box. The box now has a large opening from the top much resembling flow equal to any of the aftermarket intakes.

Dyno 005 is ran with my stock air box and with the factory filter in place but with WarpSpeed's Y & B pipes and my modified muffler/pipe. Dyno 006 is with the factory air filter removed once again.

I gain 20.9 hp and 23.6 lbs torque! Not too bad and still quite as a mouse with my factory muffler, factory cats and completely street legal!

I highly recommend WarpSpeed Performance pipes!

Stereodude

That's some pretty serious HP to the ground for an auto.

Impressive

Stereodude

Tanman

When you say completely street legal, is that because the 2K2 model doesn't have factory pre-cats built into the stock y-pipe?

augie

Are they already out for sale?

2K2DEMAX

iTrader: (1)

Good write-up!! Looks like good gains are to be had for you 2k2 guys with a Y-pipe after all.

augie

Woohoo! I can't wait until they come out!

Larry

The pre-cats are bolted to the manifold on the 2K2. No cat was taken off the car.

Tanman

Are the pre-cats are the biggest cause of flow restriction or is it the crushed pipe? If it's just the crushed pipe, I'd be surprised. But according to your results, going to a smoother-flowing pipe is good enough for 20+WHP, so I guess the pre-cats aren't restricting the flow?

Larry

I really don't know how restrictive the pre-cats are. It would take more testing and evaluation. Looking at the opening from each with the Y pipe removed, they do appear to have a fairly small flow area, however, there are two of them as compared to the factory exhaust with only one small necked down/crushed pipe.

The pre-cats do appear to have some improvement potential. The front pre-cat has a dimple, if you would, that could use work. Right there also is the 02 sensor creating more restriction. This dimple could be removed by welding and grinding. The entire opening could be ground larger. The rear has a diameter of 1 5/8" which could be made larger. I don't know what the flow area is like where they are bolted to the exhaust manifold.

If I had to guess right now, I would say my factory modified muffler is the next restriction in my system. It has only one 2.06 diameter flow passage. But again I am only guessing as testing would be required.

Newman

iTrader: (3)

so with the y and b pipes and the modified exhaust you gained 8 HP? (the rest is from removing the filter so that doesnt count)

that is kind of disappointing.

KLOOGY

iTrader: (12)

Are these ready to be ordered, and if so , how much ??

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

Wait wait here, those numbers seem a bit high, or is it me not looking right, from what I get you took the Airfilter assembly off both times you dynoed.

So in a sense here is what I understand

Air Filter - Stock dyno
194.1fwhp & 205.4ft lbs

Air Filter - WSP Pipe Dyno
202.0fwhp & 218.8ft lbs

Net gain WITH the air filter assembly
--------------------------------------
7.9fwhp & 13.4ft lbs


Now here is the other one

W/O Air Filter - Stock Dyno
202.0fwhp & 212.0ft lbs

W/O Air Filter - WSP Pipe Dyno
215.0fwhp & 229.0ft lbs

Net gain WITHOUT the air filter assembly
-----------------------------------------
13.0fwhp & 17ft lbs


So technically is it not the top one of only 7.9fwhp and 13.4ft lbs since no one runs a car without an airfilter or an intake?

Dont flame, Im just trying to understand what you wrote.

Dixit

Larry

Sorry but you will have to call WarpSpeed to find out when they will be ready. I know he is working on them now.

Stereodude, 2K2DEMAX,

Thanks for the compliments!

Newman,BigDogJonx,

The factory air box and filter are restrictive. You just can't expect to make hp/torque through it regardless of what you do to the engine. Some say you are only as good as your weakest link. The factory air box is a weak link unfortunately. Yes BigDogJonx, if you have a modified intake already then the pipes give the numbers I indicated. Remember too, I still have my factory muffler which may also be a weak link reducing the gains of the pipes.

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

Larry I agree with you on the factory air box being really restrictive. But TOPS TOPS you can get only 13fwhp increase, not 20. Since the second part I wrote shows both #s without the airfilter.

So I would be safe to assume the numbers would be slightly lower than 13fwhp since any airfilter is going to make the air a bit more restrictive that straight out free flowing.

But in either case 13fwhp is DAMN good for a Ypipe.

Dixit

Newman

iTrader: (3)

alright, without the filter you gained 13 HP from those 3 mods. that is still kind of disappointing to me. im guessing the y pipe is just about 10 HP by itself. since that is about what they were shooting for then i really cant complain. i think i just had my expectations set too high.

im glad we have some numbers and some progress though.

BioMaxDDS

iTrader: (1)

let's just be happy there is finally a y pipe out for us

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

More specifically the inlet of the factory air box is the problem and not so much the box itself. The inlet on the 350Z airbox is at least twice as big. The factory muffler ordeal is still debatable. Some say it's great, other say it's a gimmick. I for one am willing to sacrifice a few HP for the sake of being quiet.
People generally want to see dyno's done on one specific product at a time instead of a whole bunch at once. The 2.5" conversion probably gave up a few HP on the NA setup vs. a 2.25" . However it should make noticeable gains when power adders come into play.

This is still good news noen the less and somewaht confirms my speculations of +10hp at the peak for the Y pipe alone. But I still want to see a dyno of a Y pipe done on a 2K2 6 speed. This autotragic dyno sheet looks odd since you werent able to use WOT at a lower RPM to start.

Thanks for the write up and please keep us posted on more of your progress.

CBass69187

iTrader: (4)

Interesting.....

MiniRX7

Interesting commentary E-MAX...

I would have never noticed that..

DId you get your VIM fixed?

ED

emax02

iTrader: (1)

You know after closer inspection I take my ideas back On dyno #3 his manifold was screwed up. Why? I have no idea.. Bottom line is on run # .002 (stock) his base line was good. Sorry..

KLOOGY

iTrader: (12)

Ok... Emax, is a well respected member of the ORG.. are you calling


If so, please say it, for the benefit of the Maxima community .
I have no opinion. I am not as well versed as some of our other ORG members on Maximas.......

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

I have been debating with emax in IM's for the past 20 mins. I dont think it's BS. But I do agree there is some weird stuff happening on the red graph. I just think we need soem more conclusive reports back from a 6 speed car that cna prove no VI problems to satisfy ewok.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

Some more data that I have drawn from these graphs.

1. The car dynoed 194.1hp 205.4tq stock

2. 202.0hp 212.0tq air filter removed; gained 7.9hp 6.6tq

3. 202.0hp 218.8tq OEM filter in place, full WSP exhaust; gained 7.9hp 13.4 tq

4. From this if u add the filter removal plus the fulll WSP exhaust you come up with +15.8hp and +20.0tq (should be 209.9hp 225.4tq)

5. With those mods together he actually shows 215.0hp 229.0tq or gains of +20.9hp and +23.6tq


If we choose to rule out other variables such as weather and heat soak, the gains show that the intake mod and the exhaust mods may have supplemented each other. hmmm......

KLOOGY

iTrader: (12)

Still need a price on the Y pipe only.... and when it will be available !

Dan 93 SE

Your best bet is to call Lynne @ 1-866-801-9338 during regular business hours. Expect same old WSP low prices.

Dan WSP

Vadim

iTrader: (8)

prices are posted on their website. I called them this week and they said hopefully it will be available in a week

buzek

They should ship in a week

02MaximizedVQ

And that is exactly what SHOULD happen.

Zero Deuce SE

How did you get a 5 speed in your 2K2?

2K2DEMAX

iTrader: (1)

I don't have a 2k2. My handle should be read:

"2K to the max" not "2k2 - the max"

Zero Deuce SE

All righty then. My bad.

MaximaMan77

Larry nowhere in your write up do you say what the O.D. & I.D. are for the Y-pipe. In the pic the Y is noticeably smaller and the pipes off the Y are not the same length. Part of the 3lbs that the stock 1 is heaver comes from the extra piping on the back bank runner.
This is not a Y-pipe comparison dyno, it's a multi-mod dyno. When adding the B-pipe you should have dyno'd before the addition of the Y. If I add a 2-1/2" B-pipe catbat, do the same mod you did to the muffler, and keep the stock Y-pipe my numbers would be the same if not better. I don't know how many times I have to say this; Nissan developed a very good Y for the 2k2!
WSP, Larry... Please don't take this as a flame. It's great someone is trying something and your effort is applauded. But the approach is all wrong. Without increasing the diameter of the Y, while keeping equal length runners, and replacing the main-cat to match the gains just won't be there. Before the main-cat the restriction is the pre-cats. The real HP will come from a complete exhaust replacement: Headers, Y&B pipe and main-cat all at 2-1/2". Unfortunately this will not come cheap, not to mention you still have to get around the ECU there with the removal of the pre's. It would be great if RT could come up with HI-Flow PreCats SR20DEN & emax do you concur?

I must say though I am interested in a Steel or SS B-pipe from WSP. when will those be available? I'm keeping my stock muffler and Larry I must say that was a great mod idea you came up with for it.

bmfjeep

We varied little from our standard 2.5" Y pipe, we have mandrel bent 2" down pipes and our custom 2.5" collector which by the way is larger than the 2.25" that stillen and c***man uses and it is by no means crude and was specifically designed to reduce turbulence.

The stock Y pipe is 1-5/8" OD tubing which is basically equal length, the bend is so tight we saw little benefit to retaining it although if time permits we may do a couple to see if there is a difference. We made custom laser cut flanges which allow us to use the gen3 and 4 style gaskets as the 2002 opening is so small for our 2" tubing. It weighs less than stock for a variety of reasons but since we use 14 gage and 16 gage tubing vs the 18 gage 409 stainless that Nissan uses I would expect there to a be a difference.

I guess we could have dynoed it separate but we did not, we simply do not dyno every single mod we make when it is close to what we have done previously. I thought the manner in which it was done made sense as most will be replacing their B pipes and airbox anyway. I want to find out how much difference the 2.25" vs the 2.5" makes. You can pound and massage the numbers all you want.

My apologies Larry, when you offered to test the system I did not realize the amount of crap you would have to take.

regards
Dallas WarpSpeed Performance

MaximaMan77

Dallas I am in no way criticizing Larry other than the fact that the way dyno's were done prove nothing to me with respect to how much HP is gained with your Y-pipe. And I don't think I'm being too harsh with your Co. I'm sure your other products are of high quality at very completive prices.
If I'm going to shell out $300 for a Y-pipe I want to know what kind of gains I can expect. With regard to your statement as to not doing dyno's on similar products that have proven gains makes perfect sense to me. This time you are not making something for the exact same app. It's not the same POS stock y-pipe you are replacing coupled to the same engine.
Your explanation as to the weight difference makes no sense to me. Stainless and carbon steel are so close in weight you can't tell the difference. 18-gage steel is much thinner than 14 or 16. So the stock one should weigh less than yours unless you’re using thinner flanges and or less tubing as the flanges alone could not account for the 3lb change. Although weight is not the issue here HP is. The design of this pipe looks to be very good! But what is the compelling reason for me to make the switch?


I would also like to apologize for the RT comment in my last post as I did not know you made Cats until tonight when I went on you web page.

Larry

No problem maximaman777, just send me a retainer check for $2K and I'll get started right away with a custom testing and evaluation program designed by you. I'm sorry Dallas and I didn't consult with you before we began. Be sure to include a complete test program, start to finish. I'll then bill you weekly as testing is underway. Hurry, send that check so we can get started!

Larry

No apology necessary. You can't please everybody all the time. I've enjoyed testing and evaluating your quality new system. I appreciate the opportunity and hope to work together again soon.

MaximaMan77

Dallas if you supply me with Y-pipe, B-pipe & a Hi-Flow Cat (is your cat 2.5") and I'll pay for the shipping. I'll supply you with the dyno info, 7 sets of 3 runs in this order of installation:
1. Stock
2. Intake (HAI)
3. Intake W/Frank
4. B-pipe W/muffler mod
5. Hi-flow Cat
6. Y-pipe
7. After 2 To 4 weeks for ECU to relearn

I believe this is the order in which most people would upgrade. If you have any input as to which way this should be done we could do it that way instead.
If I'm unhappy with the Y-pipe I'll return it to you. I figure the freight and dyno's should run me between 475-525 dollars.

Let me know what you think.


Also as you are now making your own Cats it is feasible for you to make a set of street and non-street legal headers. If I can find a totaled 02 with an undamaged manifold I would be willing to buy it and send it to you for a finished product that I'll dyno.

Loe max

iTrader: (6)

So the ghetto intake I have on my car does show some sort of gains

DAREN

iTrader: (3)

why all the back and forth. just dyno the y-pipe by itself with all else being stock.

as far weight is concearned, WSP is using thicker metal but as he said he weighed the complete assembly. factory with resonator vs WSP without resonator.

Larry

Daren, weights are as follows: Factory Y pipe = 14# 10 oz, WSP Y pipe = 9# 11 oz; Factory B pipe = 12# 6 oz, WSP B pipe 12# 0 oz.

Remember, the WSP pipes are not only heavier gauge but also larger diameter pipes. You can't expect much weight savings if any. With a resonator I am sure the WSP system will be slightly heavier.

As far as dynoing just the Y pipe, I don't think that would prove much because of the very restrictive factory B pipe. Without both and a free flowing intake you are not going to do much regardless of how well designed or how well the Y pipe flows. Even keeping the factory pipe that goes into the muffler, the Y & B pipes together aren't going to make the gains I posted. I would venture to say that Nissan has left even more hp/torque on the table. If I had headers, less restrictive pre-cats and main cat, and a free flowing muffler, we would probably see gains in access of 35 hp/35 lbs. of torque. Eliminate all the weak links and this little 3.5 will make some substantial gains!