Concorde

I've done alot of researching and reading here in the past few days in regards to changing of the transmission fluid in our cars, and thanks to all that have contributed to this subject in the past. Your help was invaluable in my DIY project! Here are some details of my experience. Sorry if it gets long-winded.

Disclaimer: I'm a big DIY nut; not because I'm cheap, but I get self-gratification out of DIY projects!

My Y2K SE has 53k miles on it.

Last weekend, I changed the oil/oil filter for the first time with very good results. Actually, I made an error while draining the old oil (what I thought was the motor oil, but instead the ATF). At the time, I thought I was in deep ****. This turned out to be a blessing in disguise, as I found that the ATF was actually light brown, and not red at all (assuming OE ATF is red). Having seen that, and knowing that the ATF should have been changed at 40k+/- miles anyway, I figured I could wait another week and change the ATF as another DIY project.

To cut to the chase, I put the ATF fluid back in, and found the motor oil drain plug right next to the oil filter (go figure!)

Tonight's experience with the ATF:
I unscrewed the short 19mm bolt at the bottom of the ATF pan and drained the old ATF, which was exactly 4.5 quarts. Now...I realize *there is* a fill plug *somewhere* on the transmission, but to tell you the truth, I could not find it. So, I went to the wife's kitchen cupboard and found one of her old funnels with a thin tip. After tightening up the bolt, I proceeded to put 4.5 quarts of Mobile 1 Synthetic ATF back in the ATF dipstick opening (as you recall, I did the exact same thing last weekend, after accidentally draining the ATF during my "motor oil change"). That worked great, since after checking the ATF dipstick about 30 minutes later, it registered perfectly in the "cold" range.

I took it for a spin, and the gears changed smooth as silk...couldn't even tell the gears were changing (not that I could tell they were changing before, anyway). I don't think my DIY process drained out all of the old ATF, but if the new ATF looks bad again in 5k, I'll simply repeat the process.

Check out the link below for some pics:

http://members.roadfly.com/rsuesakul/ATF.html

I'll let you all know if my transmission blows up in the next day or two...

Thanks for listening.

mightima

Thanks for the write up. Good info, nice pics!

Concorde

You're welcome, and thanks!

soopermax02

I put in a tranny cooler last week, and honestly I don't think there is a fill plug on the tranny, I believe the proper way to fill it is with a funnel on the dipstick pipe. If you carefully look at the pipe it has a wide opening; like it was meant to accept a funnel or something.

I looked all over the tranny...

Out of curiosity, when you changed your oil did you change the plug washer too?

I changed my oil this weekend and forgot to change the washer, the manual states to change it; and it did look like it was in rough shape albeit in one piece though.

Concorde

No, I didn't change the motor oil plug washer, even though I guess I should have. It's not leaking at all, but the next time I'm near the dealer, I'll stop and get a couple for the next DIY oil changes.

[maxi-overdose]

iTrader: (3)

make sure u re-check the ATF level a week later. The new ATF will be broken-in in a week and expanded a bit. thus raise the ATF level on the dipstick.

We put 7 bottles of ATF after we dropped the pan and installed the VB.....2 weeks later, I checked the meter...it's at the letter "O" of the word "HOT" on the stick. I drained out 1/3 quart of ATF today and brought it back to the operation level.

F1 Rox

My 2K auto just reached 30k, and I'm planning to flush or drain/fill the transmission myself.

I was wondering, should I go to the dealer and have them drop the pan to inspect and change the filter? Is it necessary at this point?

[maxi-overdose]

iTrader: (3)

dealer does two thing.....flush or drain. flush is a more efficient method and take out the ATF from torque convertor. Drain just take off the drain plug and refill the fluid. I would do a flush instead of drain. Of crouse....flush costs 2 times more than drain.

About DIY...u can either drop the pan or just drain it thru the drain plug. if u planned to drop the pan....make sure buy urself a pan gasket in case the old one is a goner. To me...dropping the pan will get more old ATF out of the tranny. We fill the tranny with 7 bottles of ATF after the pan and the vb were removed and replaced.

F1 Rox

I called the dealer just now and they wanted $149 for flush plus I bring my own Synthetic ATF.

At this point, I'm not confident enough to do a flush on my own, even after reading/searching all of the post regarding ATF flush. So, I'm leaning toward drain/fill.

What is the risk of dropping the pan myself? What should I expect? A mess? Also, how would I clean it? What should I look for signs of tranmission problem?

saxdogg

THat's double what I've seen other places advertise. You can get it done at a good lubentune place for around 60-80, maybe less if you bring your own...call around and go with the flush.

ARFF

[maxi-overdose]

iTrader: (3)

149 should include the ATF...they are ripping u off. ask them to knock 30 dollars off if u bring ur own ATF>

u need some kind of machine to flush the ATF. draining is just simple like changing engine oil.

risk of DIY? make sure u torque the panel corretly and torque it by increment of 1 - 2 lb/ft per bolt. be sure to add sufficient amount of ATF and recheck it a week or so later to make sure u r not overfilling it. (check it when the fluid is hot, I dun trust the cold range that well) Addition to these....make sure there is no leak around the pan and drain plug.

u can also clean ur pan after u drop it....watch how fuzzy those 2 magnets are....those are the metal shavings from wear.


check out my homepage for some images.

have fun!

BoosttotheMax

I think a few things need to be clarified here. First of all, shops like Jiffy-Lube, Speedy, Greased Lightning, etc. don't do ATF FLUSHES, they do ATF EXCHANGES. In a fluid exchange, they simply hook your tranny up to a pump that drains your oil fluid and injects brand-new fluid into your tranny. While this is satisfactory, it's not nearly as comprehensive as a full-fledged fluid flush.

In an ATF flush, your tranny is hooked up to a BG flush pump that uses your tranny to circulate new fluid with a dose of BG fluid treatment. I guess you could call it a tranny Dialysis. The BG-treated ATF circulates within your tranny for a good 4-6 minutes, extensively cleaning your tranny. Finally, clean tranny fluid is pumped in. I recommend a fluid flush after a pan drop and tranny filter replacement. $140 is the bottom of the totem-pole if you ask me. A tranny flush alone on my old MB S500 cost $180, $260 with pan drop, labor costs alone. Pan drop, filter replacement, fluid flush and filled with Redline ATF (the best ATF) would cost $310. Is it worth it? Let's see:

Pan drop, filter replacement, fluish flush: $180 for a Max?

Rebuilt transmission with 20k mile warranty + installation: $2000k AT LEAST.

P.S. A smart move would be to add a B&M tranny cooler. A tranny cooler along with regular tranny flushing could extend the life of the tranny by 40% or 50k miles.

saxdogg

Well..every soft drink's a coke, everything I wipe my nose with is a kleenex...you're talking terminology. I'm saying flush, big deal, you're flushing out the tranny with fresh fluid, right? I think that Trany flush you mention with the solution and all is a little overkill. I'm talking anything above and beyond just dropping the pan and letting half of the fluid out.

You say tomato, I say tomAto

ARFF

steelymatt

iTrader: (1)

Green Ox,

Is changing the tranny fluid really that easy, just like the oil? So you just drain 4.5 and put 4.5 back in? I'm looking for a smoother tranny!

Matt

BoosttotheMax

I wouldn't say it's overkill. Maybe that's just because I'm a stickler when it comes to maintenance? I believe, for $150 or whatever it is for a Max, it's a very worthwhile investment. I'm the second owner of my Max and have already put 38k miles on the odo. Just in August while my Max was at the dealer getting new spark plugs, injectors, fuel system flushed (afterwards I treated the fuel with a dose of BG44k fuel system cleaner) the mechanic was extremely surprised, he complimented me and said my Max was the strongest and smoothest running 2k2 and stated that a few 2k1's and 2k2's with the same mileage as mine or slightly less, there was a night and day difference with the shifting and engine.

Like I said, I'm very nitpicky when it comes to maintenance, but keep in mind, engines and tranny's are the same in that the lifespans of both is dependent on the maintenance of the first 40k miles because of bearing wear, etc. So if you can take really good car of your car in its first 40k, you're adding many miles to its lifespan. Some people neglect their cars when they're brandnew and when the mileage adds up they begin to change their fluids much more frequently trying to stretch things but by then, it's probably a little too late.

saxdogg

I do agree totally. I am going to wait until the scheduled 30k for the tranny fluid swap, but I'm going to syn motor oil at around 11k I think. I need this car to last!

ARFF

Concorde

Yes, it's really that easy. Just remove the plastic cover that protects the ATF pan (if you have one), remove the drain plug and drain away.

Yours may or may not drain 4.5 quarts like mine did, so just make sure you measure the amount that drained out.

WORD OF CAUTION: I would recommend to everybody that the old ATF is not tossed out right away. If your tranny does not accept the new ATF and starts behaving badly, I'd put the old ATF back in. Just because you put new ATF in, it doesn't necessarily mean your transmission will up and start shifting smoother...

I've got buddies who have replaced their old BMW tranny fluid, tossed out the original, and regretted it because their trannys were never the same from that point forward...

deadrx7conv

Never reuse transmission fluid. It was mentioned twice in this thread. The smallest specs of dirt can and will cause problems. A pebble could clog a passage or prevent pressure valves, or solenoids, or servos, .... from opening or closing.
New fluid is always better than old fluid. Don't believe stories that people tell concerning icky transmissions after an ATF change. Most negligent people change/flush/exchange the ATF 'after' they start having problems. This is always the problem with believing 'tales'. Fresh fluid will NOT rebuild your transmission or fix problems.

Auto transmissions rarely feel better with a fluid change. Fresh fluid will condition the seals and lubricate the gears better and isn't usually noticeable.
The only reasons why we do fluid changes is to maintain the 'current transmission habits' and to 'extend transmission life'. Some people will notice cooler temps(anyone here with a trans temp gauge?). Most will notice nothing other than the pretty color change and the psychological effect.
ATF changes are used to prevent problems and rebuilds.

Flushing is a waste of money. Because of quicklube joints, longer lasting transmissions, & capitalism, shops needed an easy way to milk $100 from the consumer---hence the flush, exchange, whatever you want to call it. These machines are imperfect and will allow mixing in the torque converter and pan(if not changed first). Don't be brainwashed by the flush/exchange. These terms are synonymous for profit. There are cheaper(messier) ways to flush a transmission for someone who is dodo-retentive. Do a search.

The easiest and best way to take care of the auto tranny is to do a drain/refill every 10k miles or at least once a year. This will refresh the fluid, and the tranny will last almost forever(excludes abuse).
4.5 quarts of ATF($5 dino or $30 synth), 10 minutes of time, once a year, shouldn't be a problem for anyone especially for people who keep cars a long time.
If you do not do your own maintenance, most lubejoints will do a drain/refill for ~$20 'while' you're there for an oil/filter change. Be sure that you tell them that there is a drain plug and that it takes about 4.5 quarts. Otherwise they will try to talk you into the $100 flush.

And remember to check your transmission fluid at normal temp, while the car is running(very important with external coolers that will drain another quart back to the pan when car is off), and on a level surface. This is the only way to get an accurate reading. Fluid doesn't expand with time. It will expand with temperature. Make sure car idles for 4-5 minutes to let the ATF temp settle.
The only way to fill the ATF in most cars is through the dipstick. ATF dipsticks are twice as sensitive as oil dipsticks. One quart is usually the difference between high/low on an oil dipstick. One PINT is usually the difference between high/low on an ATF dipstick. Try not to overfill. Excessive fluid could cause fluid foaming.

SSandMaxima

The system holds about 10 quarts, and it takes about 5 drain/fills to achieve 90% new fluid in the system.

Concorde

Just checked the ATF again. Still clear and red, and not light brown like before. 100% or not, I'm satisfied.

sascuderi

If you drain out 4.5 qt and add back 4.5 qts of Synthetic ATF, is it OK to mix the new Synthetic with the old fluid still in the tranny?

Concorde

Good question...I'm no tranny expert by any stretch of the imagination; however, the labeling on the Mobile 1 ATF container said it was ok to do so.

[maxi-overdose]

iTrader: (3)

same as redline...its ok to mix with conventional ATF....just tried to get as much as ATF out of the tranny. takes 7 bottles to fill the tranny if u dropped the pan.

F1 Rox

Could you restate how much should I used to torque the nuts after I drop the pan? I would imagine that cleaning the pan means wipe it clean without using water or any detergent...

[maxi-overdose]

iTrader: (3)

I remembered its 7 lb/ft....and torque by increment to each bolt. I cleaned the pan with brake cleaner....

if u decided to drop the pan.....buy a gasket first and make sure u have enough ATF.

Concorde

Update:
It's been a week since I drained 4.5 quarts of OE ATF and re-filled 4.5 quarts of Mobile 1 Fully Synthetic in my '00 Maxima SE...

Tonight:
1. After a full day of sitting in the garage, ATF dipstick read a little high, so I drained out 1 quart. Now it registers perfectly on the "COLD" marking

2. ATF color is now a light shade of brown (three days after the swapout revealed that the ATF was still red)

Task for tomorrow:
DRAIN AND REFILL THE ATF AGAIN!

jnm2kse

Does anyone else subscribe to this school of thought?

I'm not questioning his judgement, just wondering if anyone one has any other input on this.

I'm due for a change/flush as mine hasn't been touched for 70k miles

Whether thats good or bad I don't know...fluid is brown but does not smell burnt...

I've seen arguments on both sides of flush vs change...not sure which way to go...

GimmeTorq

From my experience... Did the wife's Villager the drain-refill treatment at 60k. So far, so good.
From what I have read:
- ATF risk of contamination is not as bad as for engine oil
- heat, foaming and oxidation are usually the worst ATF enemies

Doing regular ATF exchange intervals (planning to do drain-refill in my 2k2 every 15k) with high quality fluid brings you peace of mind.

jnm2kse

So even if I've never had ATF service until now a regular drain/refill instead of flush may be the way to go? Heck of a lot cheaper thats for sure

I just wondering if I dont get the old stuff complety out if it will hurt anything.

deadrx7conv

No, it won't hurt anything. You cannot damage a transmission with a fluid change. This is a common misconception.

Brings peace of mind(long lasting trans) to me and lots of other people that I do this for. I also say to do it at least once a year if you don't drive much.


If you have really dirty fluid, you can do this with each engine oil change until the fluid looks clean(3-5 times). This gives time for the fresh fluid to clean and reduces waste(multiple changes at once). Reasonable maintenance schedules are needed for long trans life.
Don't confuse color with condition. Even if the fluid is bright clean red, it should be changed on a consistent schedule of your choice. Hydraulic fluid is clear. Oil is yellow. ATF is mostly hydraulic fluid and oil. ATF is red because it has red dye added.
Color/smell do not tell you the condition of the detergents, antifoam additives, friction modifiers, etc. But, if it smells like toast and is discolored, it is long overdue for some maintenance.
I am also a supporter of quality fluids(synthetics).

jnm2kse

So deadrx,

In your estimation that if I just do a regular drain and refill at the dealer instead of the flush that I should be ok even given the fact that I havent touched the tranny in 70k? I take it that the new fluid gets circulated throughout the tranny in all parts just fine?

It sure would be ok with me to skip the flush but I'm just a little apprehensive with all the miles on the car vs if I had been doing reg changes like I was supposed too

deadrx7conv

I doubt that the dealer will do just a drain/refill. Not worth it profit wise. Most dealers have the flush machine and need to pay for it. They will insist on doing a $100 flush. Even Jiffylube can do this cheaper and is equal to the dealer.
Don't be apprehensive. Don't expect a transmission with no maintenance to last. Get the fluid changed to maintain the current level of performance.
If your seriously worried, buy a filter/pangasket and have a mechanic change the filter, clean the magnets, and then get it flushed. 70k miles is long overdue for any transmission maintenance.

Regular drain/refills are best left for backyard mechs who do all of their own maintenance and don't care to deal with dealers/mechanics and want their car to last a long time.
Some fast lube places will do a drain/refill because the car has a drainplug and if you are there already getting an oil change. 4.5 quarts of ATF and 5 minutes of time increases the profit margin compared to just an oil change while the car is being serviced. But, if the quick lube joint owns a flush machine, they too will try to convince you to do a flush.

Concorde

$60 for two cases of synthetic ATF equals LOTS of money saved on rebuilding a transmission with high mileage. Not to mention the peace of mind. If you don't want to have a shop do the "flush", then just do what most of us do by draining/refilling 4.5 quarts a couple different times on your own... It's easy. And fun if you like that kind of thing.

Doing *something* is better than nothing at all. Again, $60 is money well spent.

jnm2kse

Well I'm getting the whole enchilada flushed...I dropped it off at the dealer and the Sm said he would have a look at it and see if a flush would be worth it. He called and said that given the condition of the fluid and the mileage that he would recommend the flush but it was up to me. I decided to do it.

Although Midas or Jiffy may be cheaper, I wouldnt trust them for a second. At least if I have probs with the tranny after the flush I'd rather deal with the dealer in correcting it rather than a Jiffy.

They hosed my dad new Nissan PU in 1985 by laving a plug off of the rear end so all the fluid drained out and toasted it. Nice eh? Flipping took forvever for them to replace it with a used one.

Screw them...

I'll let you know if I notice anything different

I'll be more careful in maintaining the fluids now

Concorde

Atta boy!

jnm2kse

Well just got back from my flush The cars that is..

maybe its a placebo effect but it seems a little peppier downshifting etc....

For 120 bucks I'll imagine how good it feels all I want

deadrx7conv

Placebo effect or not. Hope you're happy knowing that you did the right thing. New fluid might have some initial evaporation. Check the level now and again within several weeks.
$120 sure beats $3000+ for a new transmission.

I will always say that it is a placebo effect. But, fresh fluid lubricates better=better power, mpg, shifts etc. Fresh fluid seals better=the piston servos can apply quickly without slippage etc. So, you're probably not imagining especially since you removed the 70k mudfluid that was in your transmission.

And above all, drive normally as you always have. Having new fluid isn't a license for transmission abuse.

studman

So my 2002 SE is about to pass 18000 miles... is it time to change the fluid? The shifts are smooth at times and rough at others. What brand should I use? I'm running Mobil 1 Synthetic oil. Any links to a "how to" for the 2002?

Thanks in advance

deadrx7conv

I recommend any synthetic ATF. Off the top off my head, Mobil1 Amsoil Redline RoyalPurple Neo............

Yeah, at 18k miles its time for a change.
Buy 5 quarts of the ATF of your choice, read the transcooler install faq since it has nice pictures of the ATF pan(4th gen but similar), pull drain plug, allow ATF to drain, reinstall plug(may require washer but I have reused washer numerous times with no problems), add ATF through ATF dipstick, run/warmup engine and top off, check level again and for leaks. Pretty simple to do by yourself. Also, simpler to visit mechanic with $$.
Since your profile says you're in Florida, I would consider installing a transcooler, especially if you own the car and plan on keeping it for a long time.
Also, there might be some service bulletins on your transmission. Since the car is under warranty and if you have the time, visit Nissan and have the dealer take a look at it.

https://maxima.org/shoptalk/sub_modi...ns/index.shtml

jnm2kse

Thanks- I do feel better knowing that I at least tried to help my tranny after neglecting it for so long.

It got the flush and the "BG" treatment whatever that is...some sort of cleaner etc...I'll make sure I do a drain and fill every 6 months or so as I put on about 25k a year.