maximadriven

I have been trying to figure out why my Bose system sucks so bad. There isnt any crackling or static. Just plain bad sound. To be honest it is typical OEM. The question is, do I change the head unit, the speakers or both? If I change the HU do I lose my great FM reception? I do have to say that the FM reception is very good. Thanks in advance..

tbirdrob

It's the speakers and the amplification. Get some decent speakers and amplifiers and you can have good sound while leaving the stock dash.

ABS

I agree, it's the amp and the speakers. Bose played some games in the amp, using op-amp filters to cut output in certain frequency ranges. Then they designed in a low powered amplifier. Then they installed low cost speakers that give decent mids, but bad highs and lows.

The Clarion HU should be just about as good as any other HU . . .

jjames

I'm going to let you guys in on a little secret. The OEM Bose stereo in your Max is not near as bad as you have been programmed to believe. I'm guessing, (and this is only a hunch), if people posted every other freaking day about how great the Bose stero was, there would be a different "tone"<---(shameless pun) regarding the Bose stereo.

ford5litre

It sure as heck isn't reliable. I'm waiting on my third unit right now! That is something that is not left to subjectivity... it's a fact.

jjames

I'll give that one 5.0. But, if you were waiting on your 3rd Alpine, Pioneer, or whatever, they would suck too. Might sound pretty good when it's working though.

If reliability is the issue, and you're on your 3rd unit, I'd be ****ed too. But, I just don't think it sounds half as bad as everyone "thinks" it does.

But, wtf do I know?

maximadriven

I agree that for an oem system it is decent but overall it is not that great. I am trying to figure out if it is the speakers or the HU. It seems to be the speakers from what some have said. IS there a logical upgrade? When I had a BMW the upgrade was MB Quart separates. Also is there a how to on replacing the amp and speakers while keeping the stock hu?

pvaudo

Alert:
My 2000 Bose sounded great. My 2002 Bose sucks wind.
No highs. No crispness. No response from Bose's support site.

CO2kmax

If u want the stock HU but diff speak and amp get a PD4 from AudioLink. There website is www.linkmeup.com . People have done this before search in audio and electronics. I have one on order. Alot of people just plug in aftermarket speakers and they say it sounds alot better. Good luck

Maxima Dan

The stock Bose system didn't sound that bad at moderate listening levels. It was not until you turned it up that the lousy speakers started to sound bad.

I just changed everything but the headunit and it sounds amazing. If you want something simple go with the audiolink. Or do some searching on the Audio and electronics forum for more ideas.

maximadriven

thanks guys for the advice..i think the audiolink option may work. I guess my main complaint is the lackluster performance at high volume levels. I like my music loud! Thanks again...

Ma><iManiac

Here is my experience with the Bose unit:

When I bought my car in April, it was out of necessity. The car that I had been driving for years (91 accord) finally died, so I went to the dealer and saw my Max. '02 SE, Majestic Blue, leather package, pretty much everything but the nav unit and heated seats. So I got it. I didn't really want the Bose unit because I listened to it on the test drive and didn't like it. It's not that big of a deal though. I didn't feel like waiting to have one with everything BUT the Bose system ordered. I will say this. For the price that you pay to have the Bose unit, you can get a much better head unit, much better speakers and amps for what you are paying for in the Bose name. I did it myself. I replaced it all. I have a competition class system now and it wasn't all that much more than the Bose stuff cost me. But there are some people that think the Bose stuff sounds good. That's cool. I'm glad it makes them happy. To each his own.

"If it has no highs and it has no lows it's got to be Bose."

2000 SE

I have heard that the 02' bose is sub-par if that. It is hard to believe because my 00' with the bose is awesome. The only bad part is the rattle from the bass, but other than that the mids, highs, crispness is great.

Aggie Jurist

I'm waiting for my 2nd HU. The CD player evidently becomes misaligned very easy and the system is on backorder. I'd love to replace the whole damned thing.

TimW

iTrader: (6)

you know this is really clarions fault. I believe they chose to fix all their recalled $2000 retail 925DVD Headunits before they worried about OEMs.

I'm not a big fan of Nissan service or their customer support, but I suppose their supply of these is truly outstripped. I dont know what other options they have.

ABS

Tim,

I think you are probably dead on. The HU is made by Clarion, has been on back order a long time and I'm still waiting.

It is critical to draw the line regarding the Bose speakers and amplifiers. Somewhere on the .org I posted links to some images of the Bose amp after I opened it up. The amplifier is transistor based, which is good (IC's are bad) but each of the 5 channels has a large IC associated with it. There are also ROM chips on the PCB which I believe contain a program that "controls" frequency band pass filters on the IC's.

What we know is that the woofers Bose uses have a low impedence like 1-2 ohms. This means that Bose doesn't need a very powerful amplifier to drive the woofers. It also means that the woofers have somewhat wimpy voice coils. Bose programs these special integrated circuits (sometimes called op-amps) to cut output in low frequency bandwidths to the woofers. This results in a major dead spot in the sound output between approximately 100-200 Hz range. Especially since the subwooofer is probably centered around 70-80 hz.

In the end all of this means that upgrading drivers alone is not a great option since the amplifier won't really have enough power for 4 ohm impedance woofers and the amplifier still won't output the full frequency range to the appropriate drivers.

The best solution is to replace the crappy Bose amplifier and the wimpy woofers/tweeters with decent aftermarket parts.

Ever notice how bumping the "Bass" value on the HU has very little impact on the system? The reason for this is because Clarion never told Bose that they were going to increase the Bass output from the HU at around 150 Hz. Bose went ahead and created a dead spot at 150 Hz. Sure, you get some gain, but not nearly what it should be . . . Really incredible if you think about it!

MiniRX7

After two weeks iwth my BOSE, i rip the pos out..

Everything bose in my 2k2 has now been removed.. Our 99 Max SE Bose stereo was alot more powerful and bassier compared to the POS 2k2..

And the headunit has major quirks as most have found..

Do what i did, and get rid of the whole thing.. you will be much happier in the end.. TRUST ME!

ED

ghostrider17

iTrader: (6)

My '98 BOSE was better.

However, it IS STOCK - and that's just what you get.
They'll never be as good as aftermarket tweekers.

I've played that game in my youth, and after having my car broken-into TWICE, I'll make due with my BOSE stocker. They tend to be less appealing than external amps and subs.

For you younsters out there: YOUR EARS DON'T NEED ANYTHING LOUDER THAN THE STOCK BOSE (clearer and more accurate YES) but not louder.

I like loud music, but I KNOW that I've damaged my hearing -- be smart.

Old Man River

SupaFly

iTrader: (2)

if the Bose amp has a built in crossover? How much of a difference would it be in low end bass?

TimW

iTrader: (6)

you 2k2 guys got ripped hard on the regular and the bose radio. I've heard both and I really dont know what happened.. They are both weak sauce.

My 2k bose is much better. Poop at high volume, but actually enjoyable and reasonably accurate at moderate volume. Whereas the 2k2+ offerings are nasty. I was appauled at the regular radio.. thats not fit for a yugo. I mean, you got alot, I mean ALOT more features than I did on my 2k, for alot less money, but some corners were cut. I dont blame you for being upset.

btw, if anyone has a dead bose for not a lot of jingle, I'd like the face for an aftermarket stealth face.

Stereodude

I'm not sure what you think an IC is, or what you think a transistor is, but an IC is made of transistors.This is a gross mistatement. Low impedance speakers are exactly that low impedance. There is no inherent inferiority with a low impedance speaker. Bose's speakers are cheap. That's the bottom line why they suck. It's not because they low impedance.The filters are made using op amps, but they are not called op amps. An Op amp in an operational amplifier and is basically a comparator. By using a feedback path you can filter out some frequencies. Again there is nothing wrong with the theory. There is a problem with Bose's implementation. They filter the mains at too high of a frequency and the sub is anemic.This is correct. Aftermarket speakers will be negatively affected by Bose's crap filtering they use in the HU and amps. Likewise a new HU won't have the necessary filtering to allow the Bose system to work the best it can (which isn't very good).No, it has more to do with the fact that the Bose system has circutry to limit the output of the sub so it will not distort. Distortion is bad and Bose has their system tuned fairly well to avoid it. If you're cranking the system and try to the turn the bass up you get no improvement because the system is already limiting the sub to keep it from distorting.

For the record Nissan knows the Bose system sucks. They also know it helps sell cars to stupid people. That is why it's still offered. They've looked into actually offering something good in the car, but the majority of the suckers who buy Maximas want Bose, not another high end audio brand.

Your best bet is to complete yank the whole system. Replace it all. That's what I did and people can't believe how good the car sounds. Of course the $470 CDT components in the front door help too.

Stereodude

TimW

iTrader: (6)

?

My 2k Bose wasnt a stupid option. At the time, I had no desire to run an aftermarket setup and worry about theft. I liked the reasonable sound and no worries when parked in some pretty bad places.

Chance

I'm interested in what everyone defines as 'moderate' and 'high' volume on the 2k2 Bose.

I would never buy Bose for a home system after hearing the difference between Bose and many other manufacturers, but I listened to the Max's Bose in a dealer car before I ordered mine, and across a sampling of about 10 CDs I brought with me it sounded pretty damn good for a stock system, so I went ahead and got it. Actually, it may have even been required with the other options I got, I don't remember any more. With the exception of some very crappily produced CDs, everything I play sounds great to me, from classical to soft and hard rock, to jazz. Friends and customers with a lot more money than I'll ever have, who think nothing of dropping 70g's on a pair of speakers for their home theaters, don't believe it is a stock system when I tell them.

I would define 'moderate' as around 15-17. I would define 'high' volume as 20. At that level, people a block away turn to look at me if I'm playing something bass-heavy, and I turn it back down until I hit the Interstate. I would define anything above about 21-22 as 'stupid'; there's got to be hearing damage occurring above those levels. I like reasonably loud music, but I also enjoy being able to hear other things in life, and don't want to put myself in a position where I'll have to turn the stereo up to 20 just to even hear it later in life.

I realize this is a subjective topic, but if anybody who is complaining about the Bose is complaining because it sounds like **** at 23-29, I don't have a lot of sympathy. If you're complaining about the sound at more reasonable levels, you might have better ears than I do, or you might have a faulty system. Check out a dealer car to see if you notice a difference. If you're a true audiophile with sensitive ears, you probably should have known ahead of time that the stock stereo wasn't going to cut it for you.

doublea

iTrader: (7)

Hey guys, I honestly dont know why people claim it's a crappy sound system, I have my 2K1 from almost 2 years now and I feel the BOSE is quite good actually, never had a single problem in my 2 maxima's, it sur not sound like a 25K Macintosh audio sound system but for me it's better than everything else I had in my previous non Nissan cars, could Nissan use different quality BOSE audio system, it might just be that your car was build on a friday afternoon.

Cheers

AA

PatFrank

I just want to say that I appreciate all the tips in this thread. I realize some people are happy with their stereos, and more power to them, but I wish they'd stop replying to this thread. This thread is clearly for people who are unhappy with their stock Bose stereo, as I am. It's very difficult to get objective advice about sound systems when you can't actually hear anything over the Internet. (grin)

I didn't have anything super-expensive in my old Intrepid, just a Sony CDX-MP70 head unit and some Infinity 6.5s and 6x9s. I was horribly disappointed in the Bose system and I feel ripped off by it, considering how much money I paid for this car, and the fact that I really don't feel like I was asking for much from the stereo.

I've already replaced the door speakers with my Infinity 6.5s, leaving me with 6x9s that I'll have to sell on Ebay or something. My main dilemma now is whether to install the Sony, gaining Mp3 capability but having to deal with the ugly "pocket" issue and the steering wheel remote issue, or just amping the stock stereo and selling my Sony on Ebay.

I'm still unclear on which one will give me the most *obvious* difference in sound quality. I noticed a very slight improvement from the Inifinitys, but I'm still very disappointed in the current level of high end response. The low end response is fine to my weak ear.

What do you guys think would work best for me? Amping or replacing the HU with my Sony?

TimW

iTrader: (6)

If I'm not called stupid for choosing one, I'll probably not feel the need to reply.

My first reply was pointing out that something has changed with 2K2+. The bose was marginally acceptible before then.

Stereodude

Ahh, see you've hit the nail on the head. It sounds "reasonable". Most people in the world see the word "Bose" and they equate it to top notch high quality sound. This is what makes them stupid. They don't even bother to listen the system the just assume it sounds good cause it says Bose. You listened to it and thought it was reasonable. It is reasonable, but it's not top notch sound. Therefore this exempts you from the % of the world who is stupid.

Stereodude

Stereodude

Just because you're happy with it, or think it's the best stock system you've heard in a car or what not does not mean it's a good system. I will admit it is probably the best sounding stock system I've heard in a car that costs as little as a Max, however, that that does not mean it sounds good. This only means it's in the acceptable category.

I think why most people say it's crappy is you sure don't get your money's worth. Then again this is typical of Bose. They charge a lot for what you get across their product lineup. The fact is that for what Nissan charges for the Bose system it is a pretty "crappy" deal.

Then again we should complain about the 2k2 wheels that cost Nissan $55 that they charge $550 for at the dealer.

Stereodude

TimW

iTrader: (6)

I think something interesting here would be, what changed from 2k/1 to 2k2+? Might be worth digging up some part numbers and comparing.

You might consider finding a pre-2k2 deck or amp that someone is willing to 'discard'. I wouldnt spend much cash on one, if any. You'd also lose the 6d changer in the dash..

I would venture to say the paper cone speakers are probably the same.. I cant see how they could have gotten worse :/ quality.

Again, since the max actually dropped in price, but added steering controls, trip computer and in dash changer, something had to give... quality

I doubt they said to Clarion "we want some new stuff and sure we'll pay alittle extra for it"

PatFrank

I do think it's a nice unit. I've never had an in-dash changer before and I love that. I don't see why the auto companies can't wise up and add MP3 capability (NONE of the makers do this yet, you can't even get a G35, BMW or Mercedes with MP3 capability off the lot).

I spent some time listening to my unit again today with some higher-quality CDs (dumped the old Led Zep CDs in favor of some newer stuff) and with my Infinity speakers in there I think the system is now approaching what I would call "acceptable" at the high end. I'm not unhappy with the low end at all, but it still lacks a lot of presence and immediacy at the high end.

That's really my main complaint about the stock system -- lack of presence. Tunes sound like distant recordings being listened to with a cloth hat over my head and held on tight with my hands. Yuck.

A "high quality audio system" should sound like live music. At the BARE MINIMUM, it should respond to the entire recorded frequency range and project the stated power.

I really don't think that's too much to ask, considering that's what Nissan SAYS it does.

PatFrank

By the way, since I'm a newcomer I just want to add that I love my new car and I think this forum rocks. I wasn't trying to slight you in any way for your reply, Tim.

ABS

Stereodude,

I hope I will not offend you with my response to your statements. It appears that you do have some knowledge of electronics and audio equipment, but not necessarily of high-end audiophile quality equipment and it's design. Let me see if I can help clarify both of our statements a little . . .

Yes this is true, however, every audiophile knows that IC amplifiers sound horrible compared to amplifiers that use a series of large power transistors. I would love for you to show me ANY audiophile grade amplifier that uses IC's for primary amplification instead of either tubes or transistors . . . IC's have a distinctly thin and unnatural sound when compared to transistors. The reason for the difference in sound quality has to do with the fact that IC's uses hundreds if not thousands of tiny transistors to obtain the power gains. Each time the signal strength is slightly boosted, it becomes slightly distorted. Multiply this alteration of the signal over the multitudes of tiny transistors contained in the IC and you can then understand the problem with IC's. It is MUCH better to use as few transistors as possible to obtain the necessary output. Unfortunately, use large power transistors for amplification does cost more than using a one single IC for each channel.

Yes Stereodude, you are also somewhat correct in this last statement. A low impedance driver is not "inherently inferior" to a high impedance driver. However, there are some important distinctions to note: Low impedance drivers ARE inherently more responsive than high impedance drivers for a given signal input strength. Low impedance drivers have a low impdance as a direct result of fewer windings or thinner wire or a combination of both around the voice coil. This means that the voice coil design is inherently less robust than a high impedance driver. It also has less resistance and less impedance which helps it be more efficient. How do you think Bose got their drivers down to the 1-2 ohms impedance? They skimped on the voice coil. You seem to understand this concept very well as can be seen when you wrote this:

The fact is that the voice coil and magnet design both help to control the cone of a driver while it is operating. Cone control is the key to limiting distortion. The "control" provided by the combined voice coil and magnet structure has a value and is called Qes. In addition the Qes, there is also Qms or mechanical Q which is cone control from the spyder and surround of the cone. Qes + Qms = Qts. Qts is total Q for a woofer and, in free air applications, Qts should be as high as possible to keep the woofer from distorting. Usually values above .60 are considered good for "free air" applicaitons. Door mount drivers are essentially "free air".

So now, I ask you this question, why would Bose have to cut out the low end response (by using op amp based high order filtering in their power amplifier circuitry) in their woofers if the woofers had a high Qts? The fact is that the voice coil/magnet structure, spyder and surround are inadequate to properly control the woofer at low frequencies. This lack of control cone control is one of the ways to create distortion in a woofer, the other being over extension or overdriving the woofer. The woofers are really more like midrange drivers with some low end extension versus a true "woofer" that can handle low frequency output. I propose two tests to see if my theory is correct: replace the stock Bose amplifier with an aftermarket amplifier of 50 watts per channel and let's see what it takes to blow out one of these so called "woofers", or at a minimum let's see how much power it would take to cause the woofer to audibly distort at 150 hz.


Agreed. Active cross-overs (which use op-amps to function) are the preferred mode of frequency filtering. They are generally far superior to passive filters since they don't suffer from all of the "flaws" inherent in passive filtering. Some of the issues with passive filters (depending on the filter type used - Bessel, Chebychev, Linkwitz-Riley, etc.) include phase shifting, reduced power output, distortion, interference from magnetic fields on choke coils, effective limitations on the maximum order of the filter, etc. Active cross-overs avoid virtually all problems I am aware of and can be set to very high order values (this would then translate into very steep x-over slopes).


We can agree on this one. It is not that the filtering will damage the new drivers, its just that the new system will probably suffer many of the same deficiencies as the old system. The filtering is happening in the amplifier, not the HU. Clarion did not "alter" their HU design to accomodate Bose. I believe that Bose just took the generic pre-amp signal from the Clarion HU and added their own filtering and amplification circuitry after the fact.


I agree with this too. Bose doesn't want to have to pay for lots of blown speakers (which would be the result of excessive distortion). Instead of playing games with frequency output to the drivers, they should have spent less time shaping the signals and instead just given us more robust woofers that could handle the power and the full frequency range required. But, to my earlier points, this would have required more expensive woofer designs. Bose is interested in money, not sound.

Interesting comment. I am not personally aware of Nissan's internal decision making process regarding the selection of stereo components. However, I can tell you that not all Bose systems are alike, for example a buddy of mine has an Acura TL and I was surprised at how much better his Bose system sounds than the one in my Max. I do agree that Bose has brand recognition and that for most people, who don't really know the difference between audiophile sound and the Bose system, that they probably think the Bose is good enough.

Anyone who properly installs high quality and carefully matched aftermarket components should have a far superior system to the stock Bose in the Maxima. I personally would recommend Dynaudio or Focal drivers and any clean, high quality, transistor driven, amplifier of suitable wattage.

ABS

Stereodude

I never said that ICs didn't sound bad. Calling them transistors is a misnomer. They're all transistors. I think you want to say that they're solid state discrete components rather than an IC.

Stereodude

Maxima91

thats funny, because ive had my PIONEER unit for 4 years and it still is flawless, dont talk about units you know nothing of

bose2000gle

i agree, the system in my 00 max sounds great, only problem is rattle which i plan to fix soon via Dynamat..

jjames

What in the hell are you talking about. If this is a response to MY post, I suggest you read it again.

"franks and beans, franks and beans" -warren

maximadriven

Man, You dont know what your talking about. JJames was saying that if you HU broke down 3 times you would think its crap no matter what the brand name is.

Read and understand a post before you get all emotional about it.

maximadriven

So, it looks like replacing the whole system is going to have to be pulled out. I am already looking at XM capable receivers and Kenwood seperates. What do I do about the wiring. Can I use the factory wiring that is already there?

jjames

Thank you Maximadriven.

2003MaximaSE_TE

Bah. My Bose audio sucks. I have already had the dealer replace the subwolfer. The highs are just terriable. It didnt sound that bad when I test drove it. You think if I just put a better amp in it in would help?