Am I a bad driver?

Is it just that I'm a bad driver or that the transmissions really are that crappy? I mean, the first tranny I can understand if it was me because I had never owned a manual transmission car before but the second tranny...why? I think I shift smoothly and rev match well but I seem to blow the third gear synchro every time.

Around town I shift at 2.25-2.5k RPM and let the clutch out at 1.5-1.7k RPM to match accordingly...is this wrong?

I can't help but think that it's me but I really feel strongly that I'm not the reason for these failures.

Symptoms: 50-60 mph shifts from 6th to 3rd grind EVERY time. I am getting pretty consistent grinding in 3rd gear around town now too...

BTW: My odometer is at 10,700 miles with the new clutch and tranny having been installed 3,600 miles ago. Please help because I think I'm the worst driver in the world right now.

 

If you were a hideous driver, you would be burning clutches, not entire trannies.

 

It only takes one bad shift to ruin a transmission or start it on a road to troubles. Most people new to driving a manual and want to shift "fast" slam their gears and don't correctly by trying to force the shifter in the next gear. All wrong and very hard on your tranny. I broke one tranny on my Mustang almost 10 years ago, 3rd. It was an expensive lesson and changed the way I shifted.

Anyhow when shifting don't grasp the shifter and DON'T make the up across and up again pattern when going from 2nd to 3rd, you don't have a gated shifter. Put the shifter in the palm of your hand and push up/forward at an angle and you will see that it will go in nicely. When going the other way like 3rd to 4th put your finger together and cup the shifter and again at an angle go into gear.

Another big thing is don't rest your hand on the shifter when driving, your hand should only touch it when you are shifting, not cruising or getting ready to shift, only when actually shifting. I was reading some BMW engineering article about the ridiculous amount of stress just resting your hand on the shifter puts on the gears and syncros and gets worse with higher engine speeds.

I have 24000KM on my car and have been to the 1/4 track three times and various road courses five times this year and my clutch and shifter are perfect, stock fluid too. Oh wait, there is a little ringing which sounds like the imput bearing, but I blame that on letting my girlfriend drive my car and riding the clutch at 4000rpm. She drives a Neon so I understand not being used to the quiet Maxima but damn!

 

You make some great points.... I see so many people that rest their foot on clutches, grind gears.. The 2K2 6 speed shifter is so slushy.... that I am afraid to rip it and break it.

 

I don't rest my hand on the shifter and I have perfect 2nd-3rd shifts when driving hard now but I have missed third twice and grinded it a lil but not much...maybe that was it.

I don't do the up-right-up motion you describe, I've read countless articles, seen too many how-to videos and read some forum posts too safely say I KNOW how to shift! I saw diagrams of how clutches/trannies work and understand them and see nothing wrong with how i am shifting. I guess maybe one gear grind can destroy it but come on, realistically speaking, how many people here haven't missed a 2nd-3rd shift at least once without their tranny crapping out on them?

 

Why is it that resting your hand on the shifter spoils it? I know its bad, but I can't see how much more stress the hand would add to teh tranny.

I can understand that by putting our hand on the shifter, we are resisting the natural tendency for hte shifter to vibrate?..can someone go in more detail??


*and hte = the = teh.

 

If you read what I read you would understand, I wish I could remember where I read it. But it was at an almost engineering level with lots of math. I'm no engineer so I can't explain it to you at that level and make any sense.

Basically the weight you apply when resting yours hand get mutiplied through out the tranny at load (when driving)which over time the stress will take it's toll on the gears and syncros. That's the gist of what I got out of the article. Since then I don't rest my hand on the shifter, though I do catch myself doing it once in a while, it hasn't become second nature yet, old habits are hard to break.

 

Hey I've missed shifts too, and my tranny is fine, (I hope) but the thing is how hard were you slamming the gears when you missed? Its not just missing the shift that causes the problem, its how hard you were shifting.

It's also knowing when to stop your throw (shift), I've since people pushing or pulling when they are already in gear. Analgous to people who keep the starter going longer then needed, not good.

Experiment with your shifts, you will see the difference. Proper shifting is an art and you are always improving, just like driving at 10/tenths.

 

Hey I'm on my 3rd tranny and it is an auto!

 

I guess I was slamming it pretty hard, I was racing though and it's the quick way to shift. I did the whole "point your fingers at the door and your thumb at the radio" thing and it slides in there fine now but not that time and my clutch foot was at the floor so I don't know...I guess I just suck at shifting.

Good thing I still have my warranty eh? 6 months with the car, gonna go get my 3rd tranny...it SHOULD be covered under warranty right? I hope so if not I'll feel like a total

 

Powershifting...... thats what Mustang guys call it, of course we use Short shifters we can SLAM , and centerforce clutches !

 

Na I wasn't powershifting, I let go of the gas and didn't hit it until I had let go of the clutch completely.

 

Sounds like good ol' bad luck to me. Strange cause, EVERYONE misses a shift every now and again. Hell, I even experimented and shifted without the clutch for a couple days. My tranny is just fine.

Sorry to hear about your luck. Wow, three trannies...Maybe you should change your technique. Shift a little slower on the next one. Good luck.

 

2k2- blk- 6spd:
When you shift from 6th to 3rd, do you double clutch or not? Making the synchro take up that much of a speed differential is also very bad for it. You have to remember that even though you may be rev matching, the input shaft gets sped up/slowed down when you perform the actual shift. The syncho takes up this entire slack. Personally, I would double clutch anything more than 1 gear away. Since I'm also somewhat new to driving a manual, I usually just go through the gears until I get to the one I want.

MaxRPM:
Is it bad to rest your hand on the shifter when sitting in neutral? I wouldn't think so, but you never know. Also, what about the shift lockout when the clutch is up, does this prevent the tranny from moving into a state where it can induce excessive wear or is just to prevent you from grinding a gear?

 

...and another thing...

Are you SURE you are pushing the clutch in all the way to the floor? When I first got my 6spd I had my seat too far back and I was just barely pushing it in enough. Since I've moved it forward ever so slightly, I don't have any shifting problems.

Just a thought.

 

Probably not but I just avoid having my hand on the shifter unless shifting now.

Double clutching isn't needed, I never double clutch.

 

for almost ALL (certainly more than half) my downshifts even on my glass-smooth '01 five-speed. Once you learn how to do it it's a fluid, quick motion that adds just tenths of a second to the downshift and saves much, if not all of wear and tear on the synchros.

I've been doing this for life on MANY manual gearboxes and have yet to have the need to tear into any of them even upwards of 170k miles -on other (prior) cars, of course/

Just stab the clutch to release the higher gear, once the clutch has released pull the gear level into the lower gear in a fluid motion with just a slight hesitation when traversing through neutral...release the clutch, blip the throttle, stab clutch in again, slide smoothly into lower gear, release clutch and you're done. It's sweet when u do it with perfectly matched RPMs as well.

I have had people next to me seing my footwork while I do this and literally ask me 'what the h_ll are you doing?

 

The only time I push the clutch in all the way is when I am going from neutral to first or when shifting slowy. If I am shifting fast even when shifting short of redline I do not push the clutch all the way in. I stab the clutch enough to get out of one gear and into the next. Careful, if not timed right you will miss a gear or not go all the way in and have it pop out.

 

I like power shifting, always gave me a tenth or two, did it with my Mustang and my 300ZXTT, but not with the Maxima. I spin enough going into 2nd, would be too much if I power shifted in 2nd. I have tried it in 3rd but it just doesn't seem right, the tranny just isn't "tight" enough.

 

If my auto tranny goes bad, is it just as much to replace it with a 6 spd tranny? Sincerely, Wanting to Shift...

 

If my auto tranny goes bad, is it just as much, money wise, to replace it with a 6 spd tranny? Sincerely, Wanting to Shift...

 

Well as far as double clutching I never do but with the technology and synchros of now a-days you don't need to double clutch so where is my fault? I still say it's just that the trannies are pieces of crap that can't take a single mess up because they'll mess up and that sucks for a $31,000 sticker price car.

 

It's just the opposite of slushy IMO. The tranny is way to tight and notchy. My 95 and 98 had a slushy feel, not a bad one though.



2k2-blk-6spd, my 3rd gear has been grinding for the last 3K miles, I have 21K miles on the car now. It seems like the syncro is not getting any worse now. I'm getting new tranny is going in under waranty soon And for the record this is the first manual car i've ever had tranny problem with.

 

Glad to hear I'm not the only one with a bad syncro but wtf man? I drove my friend's '96 Cobra with NO problems and SMOOTH shifting, my other friends '90 GT 5.slow with over $3,000 in engine work and once again, no problems, smooth. A '96 Maxima I drove also made shifting easy and effortless compared to the crappy tranny mine has.

In my opinion the 6-speed transmissions Nissan came out with were purely for advertising purposes. I don't think they tested them AT ALL and just wanted to get the "255 horsepower (bullcrap), 6 speed (notchiest tranny ever) transmission" out on the market to try to boost sales. What does that mean for us as consumers? More problems than we should EVER expect from a flagship family sedan...kinda reminds me of my mom's Lincoln Town Car which also spent more time in the shop than at home in the garage.

That Jetta GLI is sounding better and better everyday and my piece o'**** Max just might get traded in for a Volkswagen, yup a Volkswagen

 

If you want a good tranny buy a BMW

 

When you say rest your hand on the shifter, are you talking about resting the entire weight of your hand on it, or even slightly touching it is bad? I like to hold the shifter while driving, but I don't push down on it, or push it in any direction--I just basically have it grasped, but my arm is resting on the center console.

Also, what exactly were you talking about regarding the up and over and up again 2-3 shift? You mean not to make a deliberate zigzag motion?

Thanks.

 

When you grind it, or feel it starting to grind u back off or stick it all the way in gear grinding? Everyone grinds a gear here and there, things happen. If you like grinded the hell out it, I'd understand.

 

Don't take me the wrong way, but just because you can do a 6th to 3rd downshift, doesn't mean you should. I have about 13k on my 2k2 6spd, and the tranny is fine, albeit a bit notchy. Personally, I would ease off on the 6-3 downshifts. I have been driving manuals for 20 years, and this is by far the hardest one to drive smoothly. And if it is hard to drive smoothly, it will be even harder to bang through the gears without beating the sh%^ out of it.

 

I understand they aren't the best downshifts to do but I thought that at 50 mph, in order to truly speed up (kick someone's butt) one NEEDS to downshift to 3rd. The dude at the dealership told me to downshift to 5th, downshift to 4th, THEN downshift to 3rd. How many times do you get a chance to do all that shifting and STILL make the hole (presumably) that you were trying to "gun it" for?

Of course when I feel the gear start grinding I instantly let off the shifter.

 

After the car is out of warranty and you (presumably) still have the car, will it still be worth it to you in terms of yet another tranny repair to "gun for the hole"? (Out of curiosity - in traffic and expecting to make cuts at those speeds, why are you in 6th anyway?)

Synchros work by friction, and it takes time for the friction to bring the slower turning input side up to the necessary rpm's to match the road speed in 3rd. Cramming the lever down into 3rd from 6th like you would grab a 2-3 upshift at the dragstrip simply doesn't give them enough time to do their job. And the more they wear the worse they get.

If you aren't completely disengaging the clutch, the synchros are trying to speed up the flywheel and engine too. They weren't intended to have to do this job.

Re resting your hand on the shifter - this pulls on the shifting forks and increases the wear on the surfaces that are directly involved in engaging/disengaging the gears. You can't be sure that the force through your hand on the shifter is purely downward. The result is extra "slop" in the shifting action.

What you really ought to do is try to get a look at the insides of your tranny the next time it's apart. Some of the parts (like synchro rings) are not particularly big. Just seeing them might help you develop some respect for the job that they perform.

Norm

 

Are you sure? It could be a manual!

 

I don't cram it into third, let me clarify this for everyone. There are times when I'm in 6th and I completely disengage the clutch (push the pedal all the way in) and move my shifter from 6th to Neutral, pause for a few (I've counted up to 5, 1-1000, 2-1000, 3-1000, etc) and THEN tried to shift into 3rd, guess what happens? It grinds

Please understand, I'm not shifting as if I was racing, I'm simply moving my shifter from 6th to 3rd while rev matching my engine RPM's (yes I do that and usually I'm off by like 1-300 RPM, not much).

Also, when I'm in the city driving in traffic, I do a regular 2nd-3rd shift and it grinds also, all this while shifting at 2.25k RPM down to 1.6k RPM for 3rd. That's not fast enough for the syncros to be complaining. I've seen syncros and I know how a transmission works and once again, I see nothing wrong with how I shift, I maintain that these trannies just aren't built strong enough to withstand accidents and that, in my opinion, is unnacceptable.

 

moment anyway (on the downshift from 6th to 3rd) why not try to double-clutch? Try it, you might like it.

Every car has it's nuances and good/bad things...while okay to complain, until you get a new tranny, just learn to adjust/improve you driving to mitigate the not so good things. Double-clutching will avoid that crunch into 3rd gear and it wont cost u anything if you're pausing in neutral now, which BTW, is'nt buying u sh_t anyway if you're doing that with the clutch pedal still depressed.

It is a solution you can do RIGHT NOW, If you dont wanna learn how to do it, dont complain any more.

 

Thanks Galo and everyone else, I guess I'll just practice up on my double-clutching. Sorry for sounding like a whiner, I'm just a lil frustrated.

Sad how my friend's '96 Max and countless Rustangs and WS-6's I've driven didn't require double-clutching and my brand new Max does but oh well, live and learn I guess. Sometimes you just gotta take things with a grain of salt

 

Wasn't there a post a while back where another member was having grinding going from 6th to 3rd? And he was so sure it was common that he said everyone should get on the highway, get up to 50mph (in 6th), and then try downshifting into 3rd, and he said you'll hear grinding?!?! Can anyone try this (I would, but I'm still breaking my car in) and see if they get grinding? Also, if you're grinding from 2 to 3, then either (1) the tranny is already messed up so any shift may result in grinding, or (2) you keep getting bad transmission replacements (are you sure they're putting in new trannies as opposed to a refurbished one???).

Also, my father has driven stick for about 30 yrs (all of that driving done in Russia, so the cars there weren't exactly top notch), and he kept his hand on the shifter (albeit slightly holding it, not RESTING his hand on it), and he said he's never had problems with the tranny as a result. The people that are saying it's bad to hold the shifter--are you POSITIVE that it's bad or are you just making an educated guess? I kind of like to hold the shifter, because I feel more in control that way, knowing I can just shift it any second (also feels more sporty holding it, don't ask why, it just does...).

Also, I don't think every stick person on the road double-clutches going from 6th to 3rd (or something comparable in a 5 speed), and I would find it hard to imagine that they all have tranny problems because of that. Double-clutching is good to use to PROLONG the life of the synchros, but as far as I heard/read, it's not NECESSARY to prevent them from breaking on an almost brand new car. Anyone hear the same/different?

 

while I still suggest u DC on the downshifts, if the tranny is also grinding on the 2-3 upshift as well, that's not good AT ALL and I agree, get Nissan to get you another new tranny.

And while you're at it, I suggest you start mentioning the words 'lemon law' when you take it in -and it might be a good idea to familiarize yourself with the lemon laws in your state.

 

As I said in my previous post it was written by a BMW Engineer, it makes absolute sense so i follow it as best as I can. For more control both hands should be on the steering wheel, fact not fiction.

How much HP do those Yogos and Ladas have? Thats why you dad had no problems. Just because nothing broke doesn't mean nothing is bad. We all know smoking is bad, but it does't mean you die on your first cigarette.

 

I don't double clutch, it just isn't needed, I don't shift from 6-3 although I have and it isn't a problem. I have zero problems with my tranny, it isn't grinding and it isn't notchy, no it's not the best feeling shifter I've had but it's definately not the worst and I am happy with it.

If my tranny breaks I will blame myself and the abuse I give it, not Nissan. The best of the best parts break, go watch racing and you will see, shifters, brakes, axels, wheels and engines. You can either admit that you have to improve and learn how to drive properly or keep doing what you are doing and break things.

 

Well, the HP rating on those cars is no less than the little 4 bangers that are available in the states, or in Europe. The fact that those cars had primitive trannies with less technology and less quality materials in them, and yet they didn't break, is rather weird given that some are saying that it's bad to hold the shifter. I said he drove for 30 years, not 3 months, so if something were to break because of his technique, I think he'd run into it.

He also had an Alfa Romeo (which had more HP than most Russian cars), and he drove it the same way, and no problems with it as well. I doubt he did a lot of 5-2 or 5-3 shifts though, so that could be part of it. He did rev-match, but from what I understand, he didn't (or very rarely) double-clutched.

Most people in Europe drive manual cars, and they're not big on HP because gas is expensive there, and I find it hard to believe that everyone there double-clutches and doesn't hold their hand on the shifter, yet I don't think that a lot of people there are having trannies failing at 10K miles. I'm not saying that 2k2-black-6speed is not to blame (perhaps he is), but MAYBE there is something inherently wrong with his car (or the trannies he's been getting), or there's something wrong with the 6 speed on the Max. Since everyone drives differently, not everyone is going to have problems at the exact same mileage of the car (this is assuming that there's a problem with Nissan's 6 speed).

 

How many 6spds are on this board, how many are having problems compared to those that are not. How many of the people with problems are on their first manual, how many beat on their tranny?

How many 6spds are there in NA, howmany have having problems? (as if we'll ever know)

How about the Sentras that supposedly have the same tranny? Infact the Tiburons have the same tranny as well, whats the status of that?

I just don't think there is a problem with our trannies.