I need to hear the voice of reason from someone else. I have to refi my loan soon and might as well get an M3 right(used, 95-99, STICK!)? I have done most everything to my max(except FI) and am happy with it, just not thrilled. Couple things come to mind. It's autotragic, it's a boat-with the turning radius of one(even with stops removed), and it feels like it's losing power gradually over time(even with new coils). Am I smoking crack here or do I just need to FI the max and say the hell with it? I had a BMW before the max and love them. I was considering another BMW before the Max and now I feel some regret. Maybe I just like the small car feel? Somebody help me out here who's owned a M3 that was nothing but trouble, that's what I need to hear

 

Maybe not what you wanna here, but I say get the M3. Do what makes you happy, as long as it doesn't break the bank.

 

my uncle just picked up a 99 M3 in Atlanta over the summer. It was at 49K miles and I think the base warranty is 50K? Anyway, he had hoped to drive it for a year or so and sell it at or near than what he paid. He had it checked out at two BMW dealers, service was documented fully, one owner (older and had no kids to beat the car when he wasnt looking). For an intents and purposes, it was as clean as a used M3 gets. I saw it, it was beautful.

2K outside of warranty, he had to drop about $1500 on some repair and it developed some other problems, including something electrical as I recall. Soon he was looking at a stack of $300, $400, $500 service bills. I know he loved the car, but he got the feeling the trips to the dealer and repair bills would never end.. he unloaded it after 4 months.. He sold it for what he paid, but after factoring in the service (for 4 months of ownership), it was quite a loss.

 

GF had a '99 3 series (not an M3 but basically the same build 'quality' since it is the platform for an M) and if it weren't for warranty still in effect she would have gotten hit for:

-sunroof that came 'off its tracks' and wedged into the roof
-rear window that went down but did not come back up again (blown window motor on a window rarely used)
-bad seat motor

I have no idea how much this would have amounted to if the warranty had not been in effect. Thank God it was a lease and turned in while still under warranty.

Yep, BMW...it may be the 'Ultimate Driving Machine' but it is the black hole of repair bills...

 

well i know a guy with an m3 and while it is an awsome car and is very fast BWM has the highs cost on parts that is the only thing that kept me from buying one. they are well buit cars and have a great rep. but if they do decide to break on you you will have a nice repair bill.

 

The key is do as much of the work on them as you can. For jobs that are over your head, find a local independent that specializes in BMW's to keep cost reasonable.

The 95's and 96's are the fastest E36's.

 

Problem, quite simply, is that very often the repairs on a BMW are typically not DIY items...

...and...

even if you do use an independent, it does not shorten the time needed to perform many repairs and does nothing for reducing the price of the parts themselves (which can be considerable)...

 

M3 all the way
Spend more money and get E46 M3. It's worth it.

 

I disagree. There are many suppliers that will sell the parts at reasonable prices, you just have to llok and get involved in the process. If you just drop the car off at a dealer and say "fix it" you're gonna get screwed.

As for labor, there are 3 independent shops in the Boston area (all of which have good reputations) that charge around $60/hour. Good luck finding a dealer around here on any car that can beat that, BMW or otherwise.

In the posts above, there where three problems mentioned. Which of them couldn't be fixed by an individual?

 

Yeah man, that's what I'm saying! Wish I could afford one! You should see Rune Glifberg's, he's got one sick E46!

I'm just worried about that engine failure....I would compression test before I buy...however I hear it's the sodium filled valves that break and pour in the engine and then your screwed!

But hey, what's a couple of window motors? That's DIY. Not worse than engine coils, a fan blower motor, and a new motor mount(max)! Plus I still have screeching windows. So, hey. M3 hear I come....soon

 

Beside the cost of the car itself, I find things like this interesting...

http://members.roadfly.com/jason/m3engines.htm

http://members.roadfly.com/loki/e46m3_faq.html


Can get quite pricey, especially if out of warranty and bought as used...

 

Suppliers...fine. I doubt you will find many shops who let you 'bring your own parts' and them just provide the labor. Shops make their profits on labor AND parts.

Also, I did NOT say indiependents cost as much per hour, reread that part.

As for problems that can't be fixed...read on in this thread and my recent post with links...

 

That is why:

1. You buy a CPO (Certified Pre-Owned) BMW that comes with 100K mile warranty.

2. Take good care of it and don't neglect proper break-in procedures and regular maintenance.

3. Those M3 failures affect only cars built in 11/2001. Besides, I know a few people with 11/01 built M3s and none of them have any problems.

4. Driving a performance car like an M3 puts a lot of stress on the drivetrain, therefore it may be more problematic. That's why people who can barely afford one are better off buying something else.

 

But you have to consider that the previous owner was likely a mad man. The 3-series offer a lot in terms of aftermarket but it can be quite expensive if you have to have the work done by someone else. Lastly, power is something you grow accustomed to. Chances are a few years after your next car you will want something with more power anyway.

 

the thing is even if you are good with cars and can build an engine and tear one down you are still in a diffrent boat this the BMW. they are very hard to work on there is a reason mast shops will not fix them and you have to be certified to work on them. i work with engines all the time hi have done a complete rebuild on a mustang and i own a camaro as well so i have spent plenty of time under the hood if you now what i mean but i still would on th dare touch a BMW. just my 2 cents

 

...I would say go for it. I just don't like spending so much money on a used car. I almost went that route until I came to my senses and got the Max. I used M3 would be fast, but who buys those cars and doesn't beat the sh*it out of them? I can't imagine any M3 owner who hasn't hit the red-line on a few occations.

People also make a good argument for the cost of the BMW parts. Even the mod-market is more expensive so I've been told because it is a Beemer. I will say that if you can get an extended warantee for the time you will own it then that might be worth it. In my book, I'll only pay for repairs or a car payment. Not both!

 

Hey Andy, how's the 330? Another option I'm considering, a 2k1-2k2 3 series (LOVE that front grille!) Don't like the 2k3's though...I think BMW really improved on the plushnees of the interior of the 3 series opposed to previous years. Dad's 98 5 series was plush

 

The engine failures on the E46 M3's are slowly being resolved, they're all covered under warranty at this point anyway.

All three independent shops in the Boston area will let BMWCCA club members supply their own parts, but I was mostly thinking of the DIY crowd.

Durability? My neighbor has a 95 M3 with 150k hard miles on it with no issues. I also know many people who have the older E30's with well over 200K on them. One guy has 296K on it and has been nothing but a track rat for the past few years. It's on it's original engine. These cars love to be worked hard.

 

The dealer gave me a 98 M3 5-speed over night...I guess he thought for SURE I'd buy it after driving it..but the wife didn't like it...2 doors, 2 fast, 2 sexy, 2 good....etc...etc....

...it made my 98 Maxima SE feel like a Lincoln Town Car...

BUY THE M3!!!! if you can afford to make the trade...NO AMOUNT OF TUNING IS GOING TO TURN YOUR MAXIMA INTO A BIMMER...

I now own a 2k3 SE Maxima...I kick myself in the **** twice daily (once in the morning, and once on the way home from work) for not getting either a 330ci or an older M3!

arrrrgh!!

 

The M3 is the best 2 door 6 cylinder on the market, bar none. I've driven them all, and even with their possible expenses, I'd still buy one. The aftermarket is huge, as are the performance gains from those parts. It's not uncommon to get 350+ RWHP out of a car that handles like it's on rails (I'm talking about the 95-96 M3). They can be had at a reasonable price, and if you look hard enough, you'll find the right one.

 

If you get it, don't over rev it. It doesn not have a limiter and you're talking major damage to your bank account if you do it.

 

I LOVE it. It's everything I wanted and more. If I had to do it all over again, I would without a second thought. It was delivered in May 2002, and it's been trouble free since day one *knock on wood*.
If M3 is not in your budget at this time, 330ci is the next best thing.

 

Forgot to add that you should consider '02 330ci. I heard that in '01 models the steering was way overboosted. A lot of people complained, so BMW fixed this problem for '02 production 3-series.

 

http://forums.roadfly.org/bmw/forums...=817858&page=1

 

Crap, I am simply pointing out that these are NOT the super bulletproof cars that alot of people (apparently including you) think that they are. Especially not for the price of purchase and ownership. For that kind of cash, BMW had damn well better address the issues.

You live in your little world, the rest of us will look at the facts.

 

Yes it does. It's the same as a Maxima under acceleration. If you screw up a downshift you can overrev it, but I don't know of manual transmission that prevents that except SMGII

 

Thanks for the encouragement! As I have as well However, are the 95's (OBDI) really that much more impressive than 96-99? I plan to mod, although I'm sure I am not going to be able to mod like the max due to part expenses. I just want low mileage and good rings, and a stick!

 

I do not think BMWs are bulletproof. Most of my facts are based on personal experience, which is nothing but perfect. Not to mention that my BMW dealership treats me like God. Nissan service isn't even close. I liked my Maxima and had a lot of fun with it, but owning a bmw is a completely different experience.
If you are satisfied with something, wouldn't you recommend it to others?

 

My post should have read reliable limiter, since it may have one, but it's not reliable. There are a lot of bimmer owners out there p!ssed for damage that should have been prevented by the limiter, and BMWNA is sidestepping the issue by blaming the owners. BMW is getting the data from the EMU; max rpms, timespan at top rpms and top speed, whether the limited worked or not, and the owners are getting the big teutonic shaft...

 

If you ask a 95 owner, the 96-99 ones are slow. They are faster, but not so much so that I wouldn't buy the others if I were in the market. The difference could easily be made up by good/bad drivers.

 

If you're referring to the original E46 M3 engine failures and BMW at first denying the claims because of owner abuse, I would agree. They handled that very badly.

If you weren't, I don't agree at all. There's a big red zone painted on the tach that means don't go past this point or bad things happen. If you go there you screwed up and operated the equipment outside the parameters it was designed for. Those owners ARE to blame. To whine that there should be a limiter to protect the engine from owner stupidity is a joke. The damage could have been prevented by the limiter, but it also could be prevented by someone paying more attention to what they were doing. How come engines weren't blowing up left and right before rev limiters were commonplace?

Before everyone gets all ****ed at me, let me say that I have been known to slam into the limiter from time to time. I was glad it was there, but if it didn't work and I lunched my engine, I sure wouldn't blame BMW for something that I shouldn't have done in the first place.

 

Why not a Volvo 850 T5-R? Really reliable and Fast! I'm taking delivery of a Red 1995 T5 tomarrow. It's as fast if not faster than my 2k GLE. At least consider a Volvo.
But if you really want a BMW, an M3 would be the way to go. Get a E34, E46 still have some quality issues to work out. That aside they are a phenomenial vehicle.

 

Another item to consider is the service aspect. I know in the Bay Area you have to make an appointment weeks in advance for even some simple things like an oil change. Nissan may be crappy but I can at least get in there within a day or two if I want.

 

After you see the price for an oil change from the dealer, you'll spend the time to DIY. It's $100 here, I imagine the Bay area isn't much different

 

If you can afford the M3, definetly get it. My 2002 M3 has been rock solid thus far, something I can't say for my Maxima.

 

Trying to blame BMW for your own stupidity/inattention is just

 

Gun manufacturers are liable if safeties fail. Why would a rev limiter failure be any different?

I've bounced off the limiter on bumpy roads because the VQ is so smooth I couldn't quite catch it. Was that intentional? No, bu had it not been for the limiter, I'd be toast. Would I do it if I knew I had no limiter, probably not.

 

Because when you have over-rev damage on an engine, it's just the engine, and there's a big ol tachometer (which you should be looking at) with a big ol needle (which you should be noticing where it is) and a big ol redline (which you should be paying attention to in reference to where the big ol needle is) to warn you anyways. You should be paying attention. If you can't, drive an automagic.

When a safety on a gun fails, someone's head could get blown off. You slip and fall on something upstairs (not your fault), and the safety fails and the gun goes off (not your fault), and the bullet goes through the ceiling and takes someone's head off downstairs (not your fault)

Notice the difference?

 

First of all, If you are such an M3 lover, this is where you belong: http://216.118.86.224/m3forum/

Second, I'm not going to get into it regarding the use of the tach, but obviously, you never keep your eyes on the road or listen to the engine while shifting.

Third, FYI, even with an autotragic you can still hit the rev limiter.

Fourth, nah, it's not worth it...

 

I'm not sure about the 95's being any better than the 98's. I've never heard anything about that, I don't know that much about them, other than they feel like an extension of the body.

I don't think I would need to mod an M3, but I do want to do a couple things to my Maxima (cold air induction, exhaust work...) but the M3 has a better chance of becoming a collectors item (max is great, but not nostolgic) and I wouldn't want to have anything but a stock M3...but I guess if I could get 100 more hp I wouldn't mind...but at what cost?

Glad I could help..

vq