tbirdrob

I was getting off the interstate today when I noticed a car coming up behind me very quickly. I could tell from a distance that it was a 5 series, but I was not sure which one. I tuned right at the end of the ramp, and the first light was red. Of course, the BMW made a quick move to take the lane next to me. He looked over and gave me a typical "I drive a beemer, who do you think you are" look. When the light changed, I heard the engine rev, and I knew it was not a 540, so I let him have it. He was trying hard, but I passed him and he never saw anything but taillights until I slowed down and let him pass. I got another dirty look, and I could just hear him trying to explain to his female passenger how superior his car really is (I had a passenger as well, so it was fair). When he passed me, I was surprised to see that it was a 530. As slow as it was, I was sure it would be a 525, or maybe a 528 at best, but I thought a 530 would do better than that. Maybe if he'd had a five speed. It was nice showing him that his $45k car is not really all that.

kramerica72

Well, at 225hp and 3500lbs, you'd better smoke this car! I think they only run a 7 second 0-60...

2M0A0X2

yeah man, it's basically the same as a 330, only it's bigger..

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

And heavier. The 530 is a good match for a 4th gen 5 speed. They're very close. The 3.5 Max should just blow it away, as you did

DW

tbirdrob

I've always admired BMW's, but I just don't know how they justify the price tag. I've sat in one, but I've never driven one--is the ride and handling worth the extra 15 grand? I don't think it's any more comfortable or luxurious than a loaded Maxima, so that can't be it. I guess it's just that people will pay anything to get that little blue and white shield on their car.

C430

This is a great topic. I posted a request for performance statistics on the Max vs.BMW, Volvo, et al some time ago, and you would not belive the number of people (puportedly Maxima enthusiasts) who thought the BMW was superior in every way. Terms like "fit and finish," overall construction, etc.

Well, I know for a fact that I have blown more than a few BMWs out of the water, and those drivers were plenty steemed. Add to the that Japanese reliability and logevity, along with excellent FIT AND FINISH (everything fits together perfectly and the finish is beautiful, especially after a good Blue Coral treatment), and I think we have a real winner here with the Max.

Don't get me wrong, the BMW 530 is a great car for going 120 MPH+ on an autobahn, and at $45,000 or so, it should be. But we don't have autobahns in New Jersey! I'll take the Maxima package of superior reliability, long and trouble-free life, excellent performance, (handling, maneuverability, braking, etc.) and pocket the extra $20,000.

By the way, I can afford to buy a BMW, I just don't think it's the right car for me; "prestige" is the antithesis of good value, and getting good value is common sense.

vqman

go drive a 1997-1998 M3 w/5speed...drive it fast, and drive it hard...

You'll understand...They are awesome...it doesn't just take the corner quicker...it feels like an extension of your body...they are awesome. The only reason I didn't buy one is because they are small...

I didn't buy a 5 series because I couldn't afford it..I consider my 2k3 6speed Maxima a poor mans 540i 6speed...about the same size...the Max doesn't quite have the performance of the 540i...but for my money...I had to get the Nissan...

If a Ford Escort ZX2 drove like a BMW does, I'd buy it...even without the blue and white "shield"...it's not about the name...at least not for me...go drive one...they're awesome...

-vq

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

No doubt any M designation BMW is gonna feel awesome. And, comparing a 2K3 Maxima 6 speed to A BMW 540 6 speed is a MASSIVE compliment to the Maxima A 255 hp V6 is near to a 300+ hp V8?? Those extra 2 cylinders should put them worlds apart, as well as the RWD and fit and finsih etc. Also, I tend to find that the Maxima, as well as being bigger than even the 5 series, is a bit more luxurious, too. The Germans just don't care to do audio or climate controls. Ever sit in a Benz S500? Those climate controls are a joke. They have all the functions, dual zones, etc. But it's so complicated that it looks like the console for NASA to laucnh the shuttle The Germans just want to drive, and they do that extremely well.

DW

vqman

no doubt the Maxima don't compare to a 540i..I just mean that they are both about the same size (maxima is a little bigger) and they both are kinda performance orientated...

Yes the RWD in the 540i and the 4.4L V8 REALLY seperates the 540i...but that's why I call the Maxima the POOR MANS 540i...for $28-$30,000 what else is even semi comparable to the 540i in that cheap price range? not a camry, not an Accord, Monte Carlo SS? I don't think so...2 doors, auto transmission...really, really slow....

do you see where I'm coming from? sort of? in a twisted sort of way?

-vq

VMaximus02

iTrader: (1)

Try the Acura TL or VW Passat V6? For a grand or two, you can mod your car to handling at least on par or better than the stock BMW's. Still, it's a cheaper route.

Young04

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dwapenyi
[B]No doubt any M designation BMW is gonna feel awesome. And, comparing a 2K3 Maxima 6 speed to A BMW 540 6 speed is a MASSIVE compliment to the Maxima A 255 hp V6 is near to a 300+ hp V8?? Those extra 2 cylinders should put them worlds apart, as well as the RWD and fit and finsih etc. Also, I tend to find that the Maxima, as well as being bigger than even the 5 series, is a bit more luxurious, too. The Germans just don't care to do audio or climate controls. Ever sit in a Benz S500? Those climate controls are a joke. They have all the functions, dual zones, etc. But it's so complicated that it looks like the console for NASA to laucnh the shuttle The Germans just want to drive, and they do that extremely well.

DW


well...a 255 hp v6 is near a 290hp v8 because the bimmer weighs 625 pounds more. in that regard, it's really the bimmer's engine that stands out. ever wonder how the 330ci can at least keep up with an 02 max despite being ever so slightly heavier and being 30hp short?

btw, not to bring up an old topic again, but fit and finish is not even comparable. even a VW passat has more solid feeling doors and richer, higher quality materials than what goes into our cars. i sit in my friend's 540i, look up and i see a suede headliner. we get that fuzzy...whatever it's made out of headliner.

german cars have always felt more substantial in comparison to japanese and american cars. want another example? try slamming our trunks, and then go do the same thing with an audi, bimmer or benz. you should easily be able to tell the difference.

PeterUbers

Stock 6-spd 540i's run 14.0-14.3 consistently stock .. pretty impressive considering that w/ some slight mods, (slight in BMW standards) it'll run sub-14's and "emulate" very roughly .. the performance of the M5 (i use the world "emulate" very very loosely).

nick778

The Max may have been a better value before Renault entered the picture but my recent observations are that the reliability, fit and finish and engineering edge has to go to the German OEMs at this point. Are BMWs worth $15K more. Not sure but if I were going to spend that kind of money it wouldn't be on i.e., an Infiniti Q45 with the same basic low cost parts as the new Max and everthing else Nissan puts out these days.
About the only part that is really real Nissan anymore is the drivetrain( engine and trans). Take that away, and I think Nissan may need to rename itself. Hopefully, even Renault can't scew up Nissan's great drivetrain components...other than have Nissan marketing overrate its power...

DARKMETH

Well... This is an interesting topic and something that I found my self thinking about right before I purchased my Max. I found a great deal on a 2k2 SE MAX several months back and found myself in a dilema.. Do I save a couple of more grans and buy the BMW that I've always wanted or do I go with the max? Side by side comparisons were really about the same with exception to the design differences, obviously the bmw wins in that category. Then I thought about my good friend who just dropped a mear $38k for a 330i, whe I compare my car to his, not much justify's the extra 10k that he paid for. Everything was pretty much included with the max except the rear wheel drive, triptronic gearbox and the bmw design, but was it worth the extra $10k? hmmmm.... I'm glad I went with the MAX, it just felt right from the day that I test drove it... Know what I mean?

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Gotcha

DW

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

But, that 290 hp V8, being a V8, is going to have a considerably fatter torque curve than the Maxima V6. That V8 torque will happily offset the 625 pound dis-advantage

Still, I'd rather have the Maxima because the bang for buck ratio is way better, especially when you factor in insurance, parts, and maintenance. I want to be able to beat on my car without worrying about how it will cost to fix it if something breaks. It's been my impression that most people who buy a BMW don't really drive them like one here in the USA. They're happy with the image and that's about it. I'm sure in Europe they let the inspiration take them

DW

Linh

this is like that max versus neon thread. most max owners wouldn't give the little domestic the time of day, likewise most bimmer owners would scoff at this thread and any other comparing nissans to bimmers.

F23A4

Rob, you wouldnt happen to live in NJ?? I had a very similar runin with a 530 while leaving a movie theater here in Central NJ. I'm leaving the theater w/my wife and I spy some dude trying to look cool in his 530 (ya know: angel eyes on, headlights off, fog lamps on). So I chuckle a little know I can easily hand him his ****.

I roll onto Route 1 and he pulls up even with me then guns it, taking off down the road a bit. But, I don't do anything as the upcoming traffic light is turning red and like clockwork we line up. Of course when the light turns green, we both peel out and I put about an INSTANT car legnth on him and by 90mph (when I shut down--wife screaming at me) I had about 3-4 cars on him. Like a ricer, my man flies by well after I broke out while I'm laughing my **** off (thinking, '***** should have bought a 540').

Alot of these BMW 530/528 guys look down of us with Japanese sports sedans. But they can't deny the bottomline: cars like the 2k2+ Max, Altima 3.5SE and Acura TL-S will hand their @$$ to them repeatedly and mercilessly.

Peace.

FASST LN

Last Thursday I bought my wife a 2003 GLE after looking at several other cars (Passat, Camry, Acura, 6, and Altima). Because this car was for her use, performance was not much of an issue (though I was very happy that she chose the Max over the other cars in its class due to its excellent performance). What was of importance was safety, comfort, and reliability. I'm surprised to see that several of you place BMW so far above the Maxima in terms of build quality and dependability. We looked at the Passats, and though they were nice cars, we felt the Maxima had a better interior (both in quality and aesthetics) and comfort than the Passat. We did like the exterior styling of the Passat over the Max, but when driving the car it is the interior you are most concerned with. I would say the two cars are on par with eachother from a interior quality standpoint, and the Max is much better from a drivetrain point of view.

Just thought I would give my $.02.

Galo

a) eerily quiet
b) fits like a glove
c) even with the Sports package, rides much smoother than the Max
d) Runs like a bat out of hell. My 540/6 with the 3.15 diff (in lieu of the stock 2.82) and Dinan Stage 1 ECU mod ran 14.09 and 102.5 in the hot and humid Puerto Rico weather -not bad for a 3800 lb car.

That said, it is:
a) hideously expensive to buy
b) once the warranty expires it is hideously expensive to maintain
c) smaller inside

The 530 is no contest for a Max....a well-driven 5-speed will do about 6.7 secs 0-60, meaning a well-driven 3 liter stick Max will stay with it/beat it and a 3.5 liter Max will leave it in the dust big-time.

No question in my mind, the Max is a great deal, it is indeed a much better 'bang for buck' car than the current 5 series.

tbirdrob

No, I live in St. Pete, FL (Go BUCS!) Got some family in New Jersey though--up near Lake Hopatcong. It's pretty fun driving up there, but the rest of Jersey is too crowded.

vqman

I didn't know you could get a 6-speed in the TL-S or on the V6 Passat...

about the handling...you may get them to pull as many G's....or run the same slalom times....

but you'll never get the same feel out of a FWD car, that BMW gets in all of it's cars...

No one can touch it.

-vq

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

The BMW 540 is one of the greatest cars I've ever had the pleasure of driving, but for the "normal" everyday people of the USA, it's not practical. Sure it's comfortable, and has good interior space, excellent build quality and holds it's value. But can you justify spending that much more on a car that is overall very similar in everyday performance to the Maxima? I could have bought one, but I bought the Max instead. Besides, I could use the extra cash to personalize my Max just like I want it. It'll still cost far less than the mighty BMW. I love BMW's, but I have to let logic dictate to me what I'm going to drive every day. Hell, you can buy two Mustang GT's for the price of one BMW 540. Those are fun to drive too

Galo

which were the hottest cars in the European Touring Car championship this year...the Alfas beat that BMW320's handily, heck even the Volvo S-60 driven by Rickard Rydell was beating the BMWs at the end of the season. And both the Alfas as well as the Volvi are FWD.

No one drives 'ten tenths' on the street, and in that environment, a competent front-driver has nothing to fear from a equally-competent rear-driver, because it's highly unlikely you will drive either to their limits -and you would be foolish to do so anyway.

Yes, on a track or auto-X a 530 Bimmer with the Sports package will likely walk away from either the 3 liter or 3.5 liter Max (much better brakes, too..I forgot about that) but, lessee..what was the last time you went to one?

vqman

you disgust me...talking about buying two Mustangs instead of a 540i...

That's just sick...

-vq

jjs

Would it make you feel better if we quoted a brand new Max AND a brand new G35 for the same cost?

The bottom line is it is a good car, but for that kind of $$$, it damn well better be. It is no magic chariot, nor a major feat of engineering...what would be impressive if it were what it is but be around $35-$40K.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

You must have a BIG bank account to not only have owned a 540, but modded, too? I remember helping my friend shop for a CAI for his beautiful silver 530i. $500 That ECU must have gone for at least a grand. If you've got money like that, then enjoy your BMW I have more modest means.

DW

Galo

i HAD a BMW, dont have it now...sold it when I relocated here, bought it when technology stocks were good and I (again,note past tense) had a okay bank account...now it's not so hot...

I also bought it slightly used, it had 2100 miles on it because the guy who bought it grew to hate the stick shift.

The Dinan ECU download was 300 bucks and the diff change was only 400 bucks, if you could believe that...400 bucks for a factory remanufactured diff, all of it including the casing, the cheapest bang-for-buck mod I've EVER done. I also did it myself, in like two hours, just unplug and replace with the new diff.

I've put more into my current ride (the Max) than I put into the Bimmer & still am way ahead of what I sold my old car for, and that's the essence of why the Max is a better car.

vqman

that makes me feel MUCH better...

i hate ford...

-vq

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to bring the Mustangs into the equation, but I was just using them as a price comparison (the 540 is worth 2 Mustangs, IMHO).

jjs

Don't sweat it...if you really want to have some fun with price and performance comparisons, especially with a FORD, just bring up a Lightning!!

F23A4

Don't get me started. This is the only state I've been to where you can be in bumper-to-bumper traffic at 1:30AM!! Friggin' driver's licenses must be given out with junk mail in NJ!!

MAX2000JP

Just got done reading this post. What people have failed to mention is that the extra 10k that you spend on a BMW means YOU GET A BETTER CAR in all aspects. The extra money goes toward a little thing called engineering/testing also. You get a solid built and safer car. I dont care what you say, a Maxima will never drive like a Bimmer in its current form (FWD).

vqman

-vq

Dohcser

I live near Lake Hopatcong.

I too am surprise that people think that BMW's should be put on a pedestal. I have not regrets buying me 2k3 SE. I looked at the 330, which I do like the design, but it could not compare to my max, nor could I justify the approx 10k difference. I know the topic is about the 530 which is a heavier 330. My girls parents also have a Mercedes 240, in which they paid 32k used, and I feel my MAX is a much better car.
Just my $.02

Dohcser

When you say "drive" I am taking it as you meaning suspension? If so you could easily spend about 2K on the MAX and get a suspension upgrade that the BMW will not be able to compare, so you save 8K. If you are talking about engine, will I personally think that you don't have an argument, because VQ power is incredible, unless you get into the M series.

F23A4

Uhhh...it doesn't have to. That's what the G35 is for.

MAX2000JP

By drive...I mean chassis/suspension/powertrain. The VQ is a great engine, but so is the BMW inline 3.0 also. I have spent money modifying my Maxima's suspension and it still doesnt perform like my mom's 330i sport.

MAX2000JP

G35 and the 330i are very similar performance wise, but when you get down to fine details thats where you will find the price difference. As the old saying goes...You get what you pay for.

jjs

Fine details? You mean like a smaller car and cramped interior?


And boy, when you are done paying for the extra thousands to own a BMW just wait until you have to pay even more to repair/maintain one.