Y2K2Driver

iTrader: (1)

After 10 hours, 2 meals, and 2 broken sockets, myself and one of my friends finally got the coilovers on on Saturday. The lesson I learned is simplifications like "Five bolts and they're out", my words, is never true. The bolts holding the rear struts at the bottom were the worst. They point at a 45 degree angle toward the front of the car and are torqued like crazy. I broke 2 sockets on the driver's rear and ended up buying a impact wrench socket which looks as if it will never break. Add the fact that the garage I was using was very cramped and that the weather around here sucks, cold and wet, it was not a good time to do this. Nonetheless, I was determined to get it done and did. Final impressions, well, its a little rough to say the least, but that is not my major gripe at the moment. Mostly, its very bouncy in the front, even with the dampening set to 3. I'm not sure how high I need to go to get it to stop, but its very annoying. The problem is its a high frequency vibration with a very small displacement. Drop wise, its about 1.25 inches front and rear and, if I may say so, looks pretty dam good. I have some pics with them in that I will post when I get a chance later today. All in all, I'm not really sure how I feel about them. Don't get me wrong, the car handles a ton better, but there are some isues that I need to work out, bounciness and squecks, before I can say for sure that they they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Give me a week or two behind the wheel and then I'll have my final opinion of them.

MaxSE03

iTrader: (1)

Can't wait to see the pics!

Y2K2Driver

iTrader: (1)

Here are the pics I promised. A little warning in advance, they are big, so not for modem users. After a little more driving, it is clear that they are very streetable for asphalt roads. Unfortunately, the majority of the roads near me are concrete so I end up hitting a lot of bumps b/c of that. Its not so much that they are that rough, but it is just something I'm not used to yet and as such, something I find annoying. However, the handling is superb. The car feels much more aggressive and handles as such. A little bouncy still, but that can and will be corrected with a higher dampening setting soon enough. For those interested, I'll update when appropriate.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mpillm...mber_Plate.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mpillmeier/Pics/Car_2.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mpillm...ar_Front_2.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mpillm...e_Driver_2.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mpillm...er_Strut_1.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mpillm...er_Strut_2.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mpillm...er_Strut_3.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mpillm...er_Strut_1.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mpillm...er_Strut_2.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mpillm...nger_Wheel.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mpillm...nger_Wheel.jpg

rob van dam

iTrader: (4)

cool...looks good..BUT!....drop it like an inch more..hehe

NuJerseyDrive

iTrader: (3)

The drop is perfect! I hope something can be done to correct the bounciness that you're experiencing. I need struts and was considering coilovers, I'll wait and see how your ride turns out. Good luck!

clipse

iTrader: (5)

Nice drop bro!!!!

Y2K2Driver

iTrader: (1)

Well I've only had my coilovers on now for 5 days, but the patched concrete roads are making my ride rougher than I would like or expected. Every millisecond I hit some bump due to the poor road quality here. I'm seriously considering taking them off and going back to stock. I tried to do all the research in the world about these and in the end nothing but a drive would have given me the answers I needed. I haven't driven in any lowered 5th gens and so had to rely on the opinions of others with regard to ride quality. Its not even that they are that rough as my best friend has a lowered car just on Intrax springs and the ride quality of my maxima is better than his, but I can't help but thinking of the long haul. I plan to keep this car for a long time and if I don't like the ride now, then how am I going to like it a few years from now? The obvious answer is I'm not, so I might as well cut my losses now and try to make the best of this situation. Someone here might be getting a very slightly used set of coilovers for a big discount. This doesn't exactly make me happy as working on my car and just thinking of mods has been a huge joy, but the reality of the situation is I'm not prepared to sacrifice the ride quality. This car is both my commuter and hobby and it is clear only one can survive for me. Being that I have to go to work, the commuter aspect wins out. I don't think anyone can understand how saddened I am by even considering this route for it destroys my hobby, but I made a mistake, and need to recognize that and correct it. That's it for now.

ToasterMax

that pretty much seals it for me, no coilovers for me also, i too need to have my car as a commuter. is this ride worse than just springs such as H&R??

Y2K2Driver

iTrader: (1)

I'm thinking I may pull them this weekend. The more I think about how dumb I was with this, the more I just want to get it all behind me. So, anyone who is interested in some coilovers for a good price, PM me. I fully expect to take a loss here. If you autocross or just plain live in an area with better roads than I do, then these may be for you. Its clear that I care more about ride quality than I ever thought I did and that ultimately led me down this path. So, make sure you are willing to give up some ride quality for handling. I wasn't, but I know many of you here have openly said you are. I wish I was b/c this whole experience doesn't exactly make me happy.

FERN

iTrader: (2)

just PM'd ya.

Fern

SVTTODAMAX

Your problem is making no sense to me. How do you have them set up?
The ride should not be bouncy at all.If you need some help I can try and help you adjust them.

Guru

iTrader: (1)

E-mail me privately and I can show you how to improve ride quality without having to sell them. If it still doesn't work, I'll buy them from you.

Galo

now and internalized the 'high frequency vibration with small displacement' comment, then looked at your pics & went back to the first pick in detail & want to ask u a question: Does the upper shock mount contain ANY significanr rubber isolation bushings or is the shock rod connected directly to the upper pillow ball mount?

If it's the latter, no rubber whatsoever...that's your problem. The stock Max has a pretty flexible (read: lots of rubber) upper spring and shock mounting arrangement...if these things dont have that and it's metal-to-metal throughout, dat's bad.

Y2K2Driver

iTrader: (1)

I don't think that is the problem, but then again I'm not a mechanical engineer. And no there is no rubber for the front. When I said said high frequency, I meant like a couple Hz. Its not like the metal is vibrating in the pillowball. It appears that its really just a result of the high spring rate which requires a higher dampening level. I've actually got it set fairly low at 3. And it must be mentioned that it only gets "bad" on certain roads. In particular, some of the concrete roads around must have a wavy surface. Ths surface introduces harmonic motion into the car and b/c my dampening levels are low, it bounces. I think more rubber would provide more bump isolation, but not really affect the harmonic motion thats being introduced, only a higher dampening level will do that.

Galo

though...definitely not something that I would even remotely consider doing now because that lack of isolation will definitely induce a lot of harshness over small, sharp bumps, ala expansion strips, etc.
One more question -and forgive me if I ask too many: do these units allow you to set ride height by adjusting both an upper spring mount/collar and a lower spring spring mount collar as well?

If the answer is yes, perhaps you can retain the drop but expand the separation between the collars a bit...the intent here is maintain the drop while reducing some of the pre-load on the springs...could perhaps make the suspension more compliant to small, sharp bumps which would then allow u to bump up the dampening a bit.

On the dampening, when u adjust it....do the shock units adjust both compression and rebound simultaneously or just jounce (extension) of the shock?

Y2K2Driver

iTrader: (1)

I'm currently running 2 clicks in the front, 0 in the rear. When I say bouncy, I mean that when the car hits a bump, the front end goes up and down a few times before it finally rests. For a single bump in the road, this isn't pronounced at all. However, when the road is wavy, it introduces and up and down motion into the front end and with my current settings, the dampening is not isolating it enough so each wave just adds to the motion. I understand that a higher dampening level will alleviate this, but at the same time, increase ride harshness. On the poor roads I take to work, I'm not sure I really want it to get more rough. I'm really in a predicament here.

Y2K2Driver

iTrader: (1)

No problem with all of the questions. I'm happy to answer them to the best of my knowledge.

As for your first question, no, the height is adjusted by moving the location of the lower bracket relative to the strut. It is threaded so you just spin it up or down on the strut to move it or move the strut within the bracket when on the car. In other words, you are adjusting the length of the strut. The top spring perch is set, but the bottom moves. This is for preload adjustment. In this manner, the spring is never "loose" in the perches as may happen with a sleeved coilover. This elimates the possibility of the suspension over-extending the spring and then slamming down on it.

Onto the second. I was under the impression that adjusting the strut only adjusted rebound, but I'm not completely sure of this. The instructions are in Japanese which I can't read.

Your interest in the all metal on metal surfaces though makes me wonder if simply inserting a rubber disc on the front will make a big improvement in quality or not, particularly the expansion strips. I wouldn't even know where to get such a thing, but it does seem like it would certianly help, even if just a little bit.

Galo

rebound, you should absolutely be able to set it substantially higher without degradation to impact harshness/ride quality! This is the way Koni adjustment works in all their shocks as well, and I'm very familiar with them since I've had many Konis before on most all my previous rides pre-Maxima. Setting a subatantially higher damping on the jounce will control those body harmonics and will actually soften ride as it decreases the speed at which the wheel/tires 'drop' back to the road after a sharp 'jounce'.

I would not fart around with rubber isolation disks....unfortunately, for the rubber to serve of any value at all you would have to leave something 'loose', that will create much more problems than u have now. What might work..is there a way to modify the shock shaft/rod to mate to the factory OEM upper shock mounts? Yes, you will lose the camber adjustability but it would get you the rubber isolation..just a thought.

Try to set damping much higher and see what happens.

Y2K2Driver

iTrader: (1)

I see what you are saying about the rubber discs not being a good idea. Does the same principle apply if I were to put one between the camber plate and the car's strut mounting point? Wouldn't it just behave like the OEM strut mount while maintaining the camber plate? I guess it doesn't even matter if I get rid of the camber plate as the drop I have doesn't require a camber plate change, I think at least. I have yet to get an alighnment, so I really don't know for sure.

Galo

of the camber plates...with your drop (about 1.5" to 1.7" from the looks of your pics, u dont need it...I have the stock upper shock mount with my Eibachs (which after settling, dropped about 1.4" in the front) and I'm within the limits of the factory specs but on the negative side -which is good, to be a little negative, that is.

I just think you've spent too much time & money to just drop the whole project without trying to tweak & perhaps optimize what you have

Y2K2Driver

iTrader: (1)

I was just looking at the camber plates and I'm not sure they can be removed such that the remainder of the strut will work with the OEM mount. If any one knows one way or the other, please let me know. Otherwise, a possible solution is to change the springs with ones with lower rates. It was mentioned to me that I could move the rear springs to the front, 6k, and get 5k for the rears. Does anyone know if this for sure will have the desired effect? I don't want to spend more money than I have to on all of this. Then again, it would be a waste not to try to get the most out of it since I already have it.

SVTTODAMAX

Look this mod isn't a run of the mill mod this setup isn't designed for novice. On a FWD car you need the rear stiffer than the front period. Maybe you guys made a mistake on the install. What did you use to measure the coilovers? These have to be set within at least +/-1/8" . If the corners are uneven you are going to get allot of bounce. Where did you take your measurements from the "datum point"?
1. overall coilover height has to be even Right/Left side
2. spring rates have to be even front and rear
3. the above can only be acheived by measurements

Y2K2Driver

iTrader: (1)

I understand completely that the install is a very delicate matter. Before I installed them, I set each to the same height and measured them to be within 1/8 of an inch. Once they were on the car and I needed to adjust height, I made sure to turn each the exact same number of turns in order to maintain equal side to side height. Is it possible that I made a mistake, of course, anything is possible.

You say that the spring rates have to be even front and rear, what do you mean by this? If you mean preload, well, that process was somewhat less controlled. I turned each spring perch until it was hand tight and then did one extra full rotation of the perch. I was under the impression that this extra turn would make no difference in ride quality, but would help assure a squeek free ride.

I understand measurements, and good ones at that, are necessary, and trust me when I say that I spent quite a bit of time making sure that each strut was the same length as its opposite side partner before I put them on. I even spent time making sure that the bracket were getting spun on just before the threading starting to ensure an equal starting point. I don't see how the procedure I used could have failed for a reason other than human error, which, while I was careful to avoid, there is obviously no guarantee of such.

SVTTODAMAX

When I had mine installed we almost made a few mistakes and the last measurements saved us headaches. We used calipers to measure everything and machinist rulers also. During the raising and lowering we tried to adjust them simply by counting the number of turns, but before putting the tires back on opted to measure the coilovers again with the calipers to make sure everything was correct. To our suprise two out of four wrong. We corrected the mistake this time using the calipers and got all of them correct. The spring preload can be measured also using calipers to insure they are all set to the same dimension. I'm not saying this is your problem but I went through allot of time to install them correctly at my friends shop and I have had no problems at all. The ride is great very comparable to my old setup H&R and Tok. which to say the least is close to stock and very streetable.

JIC A33

There are several things to look into. \For starters, one can never expect to have a linear rated coilover ride like a progressive one. There are inherent areas where you will get some bounce. Like on the freeway with the evenly spaced out plates. That can get annoying. But the JIC's really should absorb a lot of that.

When setting preload get that spring in there just barely snug. Turn the perch a half turn. That's it. Just enough.

Make sure the nut above the pillowball is tight. As tight as can be.

That should be all.

And don't mess with it cause you will void your warranty. I'm gonna read through the rest of this now. Contact an authorized dealer who has done this and you'll save yourself a lot of headaches.

Y2K2Driver

iTrader: (1)

Before I jump in and spend even more money on different springs, I was wondering if it would be a good idea to move the rear springs to the front and use the stock rear struts to assess ride quality only. I understand that such a setup would cripple the handling aspect. Since it seems like it is the front which is mostly not agreeing with the roads around here, this experiment would allow me to determine whether or not 6k springs in the front would remedy the ride quality problem. If it does, then I could safely assume (?) that 5k springs in the rear coupled with 6k springs in the front would give me the ride quality I want with only a small decrease in handling. Does this logic seem right?