Jeff K

iTrader: (1)

Motor Trend just finished there long term test of the 2000 Maxima SE 5-speed. The article takes about the throttle issue but the guys at M/T can't seem to duplicate the trouble. They even borrowed another car but still no luck.
Motor Trend did give us a e-mail address to send a nice letter about our problem and they say that they will pass all the e-mail to Nissan about this issue.

If you have a 5th generation 5-speed and have trouble moderating the throttle in first gear, please send a nice letter to this e-mail address.

motortrend@emapusa.com

With enough e-mail I hope we can get Nissan to take another look.

The New CLIMAX

iTrader: (1)

.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

I guess I'll have to go get the recent issue of Motor Trend, Jeff. The article doesn't appear on-line. But if the article indicates that there is no problem, I intend to re-open my case with Nissan. After all, my Zone Rep admitted that there IS a problem with my vehicle. If the problem has disappeared, I suspect he'll want to know why.

Jeff K

iTrader: (1)

This is straight out of the Magazine.

LONG TERM TEST:

...Other than the loose upholstery trim on both front head rests we reported in our last update, our Maxima continues to exude fine build quality, great performance, and mechanical flawlessness. There are simply no service issues to report either, though our e-mail has been flooded with info from readers who've experienced problems with mid-rpm range stumbling and fuel starvation on five-speed-equipped cars. The problem reportedly occurs between 2500 and 3000 rpms, and mostly after coasting. We did everything we could to make our Maxima repeat this condition-to no avail.
We even borrowed another tester and spent an hour trying to make it burp; no luck. If your car suffers from this condition, let us know at motortrend@emapusa.com, and we'll
pass your comments on to Nissan.
_____________________

Maybe it a manufacturing date issue but it's just a guess. Certain parts maybe bad, who knows.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, Jeff. Looks like I'll have to send a copy of my Repair Order to Motor Trend. Obviously they didn't test for the right things.

By the way, who wrote the article?

sprung

Finally someone agrees with me that this is a non-issue! I experience what everyone describes and i'm sure Motor Trend did too, the thing is that it's not really a problem and now prefessional auto critics agree with me. Congrads to those who think there car is undrivable due to this, you are officially more critical than the real critics. Those guys drive ALOT of cars and for them to not notice a problem either means they got the only Maxima known to date that does not do this, or it's not a problem. My money is on the latter.

It's time to get over it folks, the throttle on our Maximas is perfectly normal, if you have a problem driving it then the problem is with you not the car.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Check your e-mail. Then please feel free to respond in this thread.

[Edited by y2kse on 01-09-2001 at 11:41 AM]

sprung

Interesting...these reps think that poor guys chirping engine mounts sound fine but your car has a problem?? It doesn't actually say it's a problem though, it just says he agrees with you, that could mean anything. (i.e. Customer states vehicle color is Sterling Mist, Steve Thomas from Nissan NA agrees) see what I mean? What came of all this did they attempt to correct it in any way?

RussMaxManiac

Yep, and actually 5spds are not only affected. Auto's too. I felt my car act goofy every once in a while, so I decided to do manual shifting, and there it was between 1800-2000 rpms It could not keep it steady.

All auto owners can tests this by putting the car in N, and rev the car and try to hold it at 1800 or around that area, the car then will start automatically increaseing and decreasing the idle right in front of your eyes without your foot moving. lol

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Oh yeah. Steve wrote an appeal directly to Nissan Japan. He didn't hold out much hope that anything would come of it because 5-speed Maximas represent a tiny minority of all 2K Maximas built for US consumption and not that many 5-speed owners complain about the problem. He also stated that the problem was directly related to a logic issue and would require an ECU reprogramming to correct.

BTW, Steve is not your ordinary Zone Rep. He recently received a significant promotion at Nissan-USA. Steve currently has engineering oversight on all Japanese-built Nissan automobiles imported into the United States. I'd say his credentials are impeccable.

SCCA Solo2

<B> Ok, i've been hearing about this whole throttle thing for the longest and i'm wondering... can none of you push the clutch in? I mean... who's honestly cruising around in first gear at 2500-3000rpms? I do sometimes in really thick traffic, but, i give it enough gas to move then push the clutch in to let it coast...maybe i'm wearing the clutch/hydraulic/throw-out bearing all completely out.

This jerking motion occurs more violently in the maxima (bigger motor, bigger car) than the CRX i had, but it's consistent. It's not an issue. Just push the clutch in and enjoy.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Excellent observation, SCCA Solo2. My thoughts exactly.

[Edited by y2kse on 01-09-2001 at 01:13 PM]

irvine78

iTrader: (2)

every single little detail we can find in our 'fine' automobile....
i mean....geez....like Nissan put it, 'Enjoy the Ride'<<this is kinda outdated...but...

-peace

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Normally I don't, irvine78. For example, I pretty much live with the rattles most others complain about ad nauseum. But I don't consider this a "little detail". And obviously neither does my Zone Rep.

The problem is, most of us who are actually concerned about the throttle issue were hoping to find some support in the media. The fact that Motor Trend did not support our findings . . . in fact didn't even bother to run the proper tests to determine if our findings were supportable . . . is disturbing.

[Edited by y2kse on 01-09-2001 at 02:12 PM]

SCCA Solo2

<B> ok, i can understand if at 2500rpm in first gear, you were coasting and the car lacked all power when you got back on the throttle. or if the car just died. But, it doesn't. It's just a matter of a overly stiffer throttle spring or a throttle plate that closes a little quicker than normal. Fix that and i guarentee your pedal will take more effort to feed the engine. This is the case with the Celicas. Those owners are tightening their throttle cables cause the throttle is quite "loose"...I'm sure you can do that with yours... </b>

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Check your e-mail. Then read my reply to sprung's post.

ohboiya

iTrader: (3)

My MAX does hiccup when I'm in low RPM in first gear ... but I think this is pretty normal ... just get in2 2nd gear asap ... just my $0.02

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Here we go again. Looks like I'm going to have to send out a lot of e-mails.

You're closer to the point than SCCA Solo2, but you still don't have the complete picture, ohboiya. So let me state this once for the record:

MOTOR TREND BLEW IT!

They didn't catch the problem because they didn't test for it. It's a matter of garbage in, garbage out.

OK. Check your e-mail. Then read my reply to sprung's post.

[Edited by y2kse on 01-09-2001 at 05:27 PM]

Maxmann

I experience the drop in acceleration that everyone is describing which is worse in 1st gear and makes cruising in first rather jerky. AND YES there are those that ride in 1st for extended periods if you're in a traffic jam or just slow commute. It IS annoying. My workaround is to stay in second as much as possible. I don't think of it as something wrong with the car. IF it is, I want to know about the fix. In the meantime, I can live with it...just don't cruise in 1st if you don't have to. srm

martinf

I wrote to the email address provided. I hope it helps, but I also hope my name does not get forwarded to my dealer or area rep, in order to black-ball me. They already consider me as a pest.

freeze2k2

i gotta pipe up about the problem. Yes there is one and sure you can drive around it but why should you. Getting stuck in traffic or cruzing the mall looking for a parking spot is a right pain in the ***. I think if my wife were putting on lipstick in these instances she would have a streak up to here ear. Ive had over 5 different makes of cars in the last 8 years all 5 or 6 speeds and none ever exhibited this problem. At least not as exaggerated as my 2k1 max does.

KahunaCanuck

I think the reason this problem bothers me is that the rest of the car is so well engineered. If you guys don't see it as a problem, then so be it, but I don't think a car of this caliber should behave this way. Where I am from with some mornings near or below fresszing the car will jerk even more in 1st & 2nd.

I appreciate the work you guys have done in trying to get this issue resolved by Nissan. If you other guys don't see it as a problem, so be it, but don't tell the rest of us there is no problem...

SCCA Solo2

<B> I'm not saying you guys are all idiots or it just doesn't happen, but, i drove through a school zone this morning, let it coast and got back on the gas at all rpms between 2000-3000rpm...NOTHING. Ever think maybe it's because of the muffler? This might be a long shot...but, does any have this "jerk" with an aftermarket muffler? Ever think maybe those throttle plates in the muffler account for this????

And just because you send me a picture of some guy agreeing with you doesn't make it valid. Guilly (one of the Supra guys) agrees with me that Supras are badass cars...doesn't make it necessarily true.

Maxine does it every so often. My CRX does it a lot. My automatic Supra did it when i had it in low gear. Ever car i've owned has done this. My Supra was even WORSE than Maxine with the "jerks"...never saw it as a stress problem.

Oh, and the guy who's talking about his wife putting her make-up on...don't lie...you just tap the brakes so she looks funny trying to put her makeup on...?? What, am i the only one who does this?! =) </b>

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

I'm certain Steve Thomas at Nissan-USA will be pleased to hear that, SCCA Solo2. Steve is the Zone Rep who diagnosed my condition and wrote an appeal on my behalf to Nissan Japan. He's also Nissan-USA's new head of engineering for all Japanese-built Nissans imported into the United States.

Your comments regarding the aftermarket exhaust are insightful. Steve initially pointed to that as a possible source of the problem. After conducting a two-hour diagnosis, however, he completely ruled out the exhaust as causing or contributing to the condition.

[Edited by y2kse on 01-10-2001 at 12:08 PM]

SCCA Solo2

<B> =) well, least I know you're very pro-throttle-issue on this. I hope you find some resolution. Maybe I, along with MotorTrend, have the only two maximas that don't experience this "problem"...or maybe MotorTrend and I are two bumbling idiots who don't notice anoy problems (which could be VERY true with my history and could be twice as true with MotorTrend's articles and biased opinions). I'm done with this thread. </B>

guchi

This tread went from serious, very serious to just plain hilirious....LOL. I have to admit EVERY chance I get to catch my wife putting on her makeup why I'm driving is just asking for it. Thats why we have no use for that dangnabbit lighted mirror on the visor.

"Let's just all enjoy..." We just damn lucky we able to chose our own battles, just don't lose the war!

laters

MI2KSE

Although I've posted on this before, and generally think it is a dead-end issue, I totally agree with SCCA Solo2. The way he drives (and I drive) it is not an issue. As far as I know, all cars buck under low throttle in 1st. The Maxima is the smoothest car I have ever owned in this regard (my previous was an M3). I think the whole issue boils down to what you are used to - if your last car was a Civic, it seems like a major problem. If you're used to driving a Viper, the same phenomenon seems like a big improvement.

doncha

my 2 cents worth- I have a 2001 SE Automatic (owned 4 months, 3500 miles)that SERIOUSLY slows itself down, no "coasting", while driving under light throttle, or backing off the throttle due to traffic, etc., and then jerks/lurches when getting back on the gas. The deceleration happens at different speeds/different rpm's, from about 35mph all the way up to, and including highway speeds.(I have owned and driven many cars over the years and this is the ONLY one to have this "characteristic") This is SO annoying..! I have been to the dealer with it twice, called Nissan (at dealer owner's urging),and all I've got for my time and trouble is "it's a normal characteristic of the vehicle". UNBELIEVABLE!! What kind of an answer is THAT..!!?? Their explanation is that it's the lockup torque convertor coming on and off. I know others have complained about it in this forum also. The dealer even had me drive another similarly equipped MAX, and that one "only" did it at 45mph/1500rpm. But mine does it at ALL speeds. I am at the point where I am going to start Lemon Law proceedings I am so upset. This is not what I want, but Nissan does not want to admit to a problem or try to fix it, so..... They don't even TRY to come up with a solution, they just give the generic response and hope you go away (I had a voice-mail response within 24 hours of opening my file with Nissan. Makes you feel that they really tried hard to research and resolve the problem. NOT) And go away I will, if I can rid myself of this car that I took a year to make up my mind to buy. What a waste of 25k..!! I've tried to ignore it, I've tried to convince myself it's not a big deal, that it's not there, but in fact it IS there and it's DAMN annoying and in my opinion, totally unacceptable for a car that is supposed to be a car companies "flagship" model. Don't know where this will end up, but I do know that I DON'T want my MAX. (thanks for letting me "vent" a little...!!) And if you are reading these posts and are considering purchasing a MAX, make sure you can put up with it's "normal characteristics" before parting with your $$ and knowing you won't get any help from Nissan if there is a problem (or defect).

Maxmann

Very well stated and I fully agree. It is quite surprising that a car of this caliber...what did the ad say...5 years in development...has this trait. Coming home this evening I was in bumper to bumper traffic, and HAD to be in 1st most of the time, and what a joke. I felt like I might as well have been driving an 82 escort! Something is up with this, and as soon as I get my TIRE problem resolved, I'm going to start complaining about this, too.

mike_bresnahan

Wouldn't Nissan have to change the gearing to fix the jerkiness problem? Won't that change make the car slower 0-60?

My 10 year old Protege is a bucking bronco in first gear. I don't think I would expect the Maxima to do any better due to the gearing.

All I can say is I am happy my automatic AE is perfect. No hesitation, no bucking, just smooth and quiet cruising.

MI2KSE

Yes.

Everyone on this thread should be careful what they wish for ... they just might get it!

davedzny

Hello all. Note that this is a LONG post. I have not had a chance to read the Motor Trend issue as of yet, but I will post again regarding this topic since I have been fighting Nissan for 9 months now regarding it. Bottom line is that Nissan refuses to acknowledge that there is a problem, so a fix does not look good. I am pursuing other methods right now to resolve this issue with Nissan as this problem really affects the operation of my car. I'll explain the problem below:

The real problem of all 2k Maxima's is what has been named "uncontrollable throttle" which manifests itself most harshly as a fuel cut sensation in 1st gear at low speeds. I will once again explain some tests to see how badly your car is affected, as some people feel no problem whereas others like myself cannot stand it. We all know how sensitive the throttle is in this car, as the slightest pressure really makes it go.

The first test is a stationary test with the car in neutral, and a fully warmed up engine with the a/c off. Try to hold the RPM's at a steady 2000 RPM. Impossible. Raise the RPM's up to 3000 and try to slowly decrease it to idle. Impossible; at around 2500 RPM the RPM's will drop on its own. On some cars, it drops to 1500 RPM, and on others like my car it will drop all the way to idle. Pressure is still applied on the gas pedal when the RPM's drop. This will happen on stick and automatics and is caused by logic in the computer which causes the throttle to do this. No driveability issues related to this test; it just shows that the computer is robbing you of full throttle control.

A second test to experience the bucking problem in 1st gear on stick cars is the following. In 1st gear with a warmed up engine, drive at a steady 1550-1600 RPM. You want to hold steady pressure on the gas pedal while keeping the car at this RPM range in 1st gear. At this point, the RPM's might start to raise by themself all the way up to 2000 RPM while you are holding steady pressure still. The fuel cut might happen now even with pressure applied, but it will definitely happen if you try to release the slightest amount of pressure on the gas pedal. The bucking can become so violent that the whole car will start shaking back and forth very badly.

The third test is related to the car not able to slow under a no load situation. While driving at about 45 MPH in 4th gear at 2000 RPM or so, release your foot completely from the gas pedal and watch the RPM's. They will not start to decrease for about 5 to 10 seconds. They should drop the instant you release the gas pedal. The computer is once again robbing you of throttle control. It is the lack of ability to control the throttle that makes the fuel cut happen so often in 1st gear since you try to slow down and nothing happens until you almost release the gas pedal and you reach the "closed throttle switch" on the TPS which cuts fuel. I have not tested an automatic to see if it also has problems slowing down when the gas pedal is released. That would need to be tested at a similar speed to make sure that the auto is in high gear, since most automatics will automatically upshift when pressure is released from the gas pedal.

The fourth test is the RPM hang/increase on upshifts in stick cars. An upshift at 2500 RPM from 1 to 2 will cause the RPM's to remain at 2500 when the clutch is depressed. The computer is forcing the throttle open under this unloaded condition. An aggressive upshift from 2 to 3 at 2500 RPM causes the RPM's to increase when the clutch is depressed; this can be tried without even shifting. Drive in second to 2500, and simutaneously release the gas and slam down the clutch as quick as possible. The RPM's will rise.

For those who don't believe a problem exists or aren't bothered by it, more power to you. The problem is there due to the engine management system on this car. I am not sure of the "range" of symptoms though as some people claim their cars do not exhibit driveability problems. I am sure that all cars will fail the first test in neutral, and will probably not be able to slow down under coasting like the third test.

Sorry for the long post, but I like to share this information with everyone. Note that none of the conditions will appear on a cold engine, when the car is in open loop and not being "controlled" by the computer. Also go to this website http://www.nissanmaximaproblems.com to read more and feel free to email me at davedzny@hotmail.com if you have questions or need personal contact information for Nissan staff to complain to. Take care.

Dave Z

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

It's a logic issue, folks, pure and simple. That was the finding of Steve Thomas, my Zone Rep. I won't bother to re-state Steve's qualifications here. You can review them for yourselves in my previous posts.

As Dave pointed out, some of you may choose to deny that the throttle condition exists. Others may choose to drive around it. But the condition remains nevertheless. And it affects absolutely every 5th Generation Maxima built for consumption in the United States, A/Ts and M/Ts alike. It's simply more pronounced in the M/Ts. The only unknown at this point is whether it's the result of deliberate programming or an oversight on the part of Nissan engineers.

Those who wish to may continue to challenge Steve Thomas's findings. I've learned never to underestimate the power of denial. But if you want my attention, you'll have to prove your credentials first.

Betacam

My Car Fails Test #1 will try other test Later.

Betacam

I wonder Will my car pass New York State Emissons tests its now done on a dyno machine.(car is driven at various speeds its a tough test for stick cars) But I won't know for two years its waived for two years on new cars.Then nissan will have to fix it.Also Just for yucks does the I30 suffer from this problem after all it is our twin

[Edited by Betacam on 01-13-2001 at 01:34 AM]

Bigk200

We wouldn't want to insult your manhood by insulting your "perfect" car. Insulting a mans car is like insulting him, right?

OK, so I'll play along... Your car is perfect! The fuel cut problem is a normal! Nissan is an awesome company who cares about their customers! You own a really awesome, HOT, manly car!

Feel better now?

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

He was the one who correctly diagnosed the throttle condition to begin with. Trust me, he's the only individual who's opinion I respect on this matter outside of Steve Thomas, my Zone Rep. He's also just a little burned out on Nissan. And I, for one, can't blame him.

Nice to see you weigh in here, Bigk200. Any more insights on the condition beyond those that you posted at:

http://sentra.webcrossing.com/WebX?5...L^2@.ee99968/0 ?

PS: Those who are interested in learning more about the throttle condition should go to the above link and read Bigk200's diagnosis in Post #3.

[Edited by y2kse on 01-13-2001 at 07:33 PM]

Bigk200

Actually, the easiest place to read a technical analysis of the problem would be at http://www.nissanmaximaproblems.com

Just select the "click here" link.

DeaZaL

Now before I open my teeth I will say this.. I am not a mechanic, nor do I ever claim to be one.. I am a network technician that own a 2000 maxima se stick...

Now.. I will make this short and sweet....Maybe I have a special car.. but I have no problems driving my maxima at 10mph at present...I did have problems when I first bought the car.. The stick is VERY touchy and I found it very difficult to time the clutch...You have to have a very light foot to master first gear.. Driving the car is an art..Maybe my car is special but I dunno i'm just a dumb computer guy so what do i know

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Fair enough, DeaZaL. Now try this little test.

Accelerate in any gear at WOT to ~2500 rpm. Then simulaneously release the throttle and disengage the clutch as you would when shifting normally. But instead of shifting to another gear, keep the clutch disengaged and the throttle released. What does your engine do? Does it immediately begin to lose rpms, do the rpms hang for awhile, or do the rpms actually rise?

Report your results here.

[Edited by y2kse on 01-14-2001 at 07:41 PM]