Sure. Ive ran even with a few and walked a couple.

And Im Auto by the way.

 

looks like the CL-S has low end torque to me.

but not as much. but both are availiable at low RPM.

not only that, the CL-S has a "flatter" torque curve, and has more torque after 5500 rpm...

but still, it's not a VQ

-vq

 

Nope the Maxima will get TLS out of the gate becasue of its better low end Torque, the torque is making up for your better gearing down low. THE TLS will gain some groung around 60 or so. Once the TLS gets out of 3rd gear the Max will start pulling slightly again because of the TLS tall 4th gear. Ys M/t did make a good comment on the TLS engine but we all know that the VQ has gotten more praise than most engines out their the last 9 years or so by most of the Mags and Wards.

 

Why don't you DRIVE a TL-S before making a conclusion about it.

 

I don't drive slow cars. Well I did, about a year and a half ago, but that was before I got a 5spd conversion and head.

 

 

Recieved, recieved.

 

 

Torque means nothing, you have to look at it in all ways... First I love Vtec, its amazing read about it. Second, many people have denial. IF you have a stick, you can take it, if you have an auto you cant beat it. its simple as that. Its not all about torque because Acura TLs has smaller gears and a more HP. Sure torque helps to launch and you could burn rubber, but after that its HP. That what you will realize with Honda, they have more HP and torque. Another factor is that the TL is a tad more Aerodynamic.. which means nothing for launching, but highspeeds it helps. The TL has 5 speed auto wich is nice because gear 4 and 5 are overdrive gears. We on the auto have 4 as the overdrive and all are gears are big which doesnt help. So my conclusion is that its not that big of a deal, you may win you may not, its never 100 percent that all maximas will loose... And the VQ is an excellent engine but nissan has too many flukes with them.. Honda uses technology thats why they didnt have to update the NSX for a long time and people finally caught up. But You still have to give both these companies their props...

 

Now this is my opinion after driving both vehicles and seeing both in action. The TLS is quicker car regardless of how you look at it. The 6 Speed Max will be neck and neck with the TLS but not truly beat it. Consider that the VTEC cam lobes will adjust the air flow to a point that the Max is no where near that type of thermal efficiency at above 5500 RPM. Second the TLS has and the ATTS system that controls the throttle adjustment to put maximum power to maximum traction. Basically your hard pressed to break the wheels loose. Secondly if it was the 6 SPD SE vs. 6 SPD CLS the Max would loose hands down. Now honda has announced that the 6 SPD TLS will hit the dealerships in May and they are rumored to be a whole second quicker to 60. Finally the all aluminum V6 in the TLS and CLS is a LIGHTER MOTOR compared to the iron block alumumin head in the VQ. True the VQ is a great motor and has been praised for years but is it a coincidence that all acura motors are a variant of the original 3.0 Liter from the 1991 NSX. NO IT CAN'T BE YOU SAY. Yes it is the TLS, CLS, 3.5RL, and the NSX share the same block in different states of tune so go ahead purchase some NSX internals and strap them to your TLS or CLS and get some HP in the line of 280+ with a little fine tuning. So in the end the Max would give the Acura a run for its money but not take it.

just some facts and my .02 cents

 

Ok so you have Ward's who has liked the Nissan VQ for a decade. Does it matter or prove anything? Both are nice engines but don't bash the Acura engine for having no torque. The car has just the right amount if you know what I mean: it can hang with a 3.5 Maxima (auto or manual depending on driver), weighs 200-300 pounds more, has less torque, is the best handling FWD in the world (almost nonexistent torque-steer), and gets way better gas mileage. Be happy with what you have but also quit thinking you have the best **** that was ever made. If it was, everyone would be driving it. So in other words, VQ doesn't own me and I certainly don't own VQ

 

 

preach on vandy786 (BTW what the heck does 786 stand for?)

 

Let me help you with your facts. An Acura CL-S coupe 6 sp was tested by C&D in 7/02. 0-60 was 5.9 seconds with a 14.6 quarter mile. Unless the TL is getting a major power upgrade, I don't see why it would be faster than the coupe. My best friend has a TL-S which I have driven and I can say that it does have alot of torque down low and is a little more refined than the VQ35 but with a just little less brute force. I own an '03 Max 6sp which I love but the TL-S with an automatic can definitely hang with it.

 

[russ]Audi A4[/russ]

 

Excellent points. I hope Maximum flame elaborates on his points because I didn't even know that a 6-speed TLS was coming out. On another note, the last I heard the 2004 TLS will have somewhere around 285 HP so maybe that explains how it might be quicker.

 

Variable valve timing? Both engines boast this feature.

This is traction control. Relying on traction control will result in a slower launch than a properly launched manual-tranny car. This is not an Scuderia Ferrari F1 launch control (or BAR-Honda) system. Oh, and I think the question was an auto Max vs an auto Tl-S, both have traction control.

Are you suggesting that a manual TL-S runs 0-60 in 5.0 seconds? I think not.


Both are great cars. The Acura is a great car and I think these cars are pretty closely matched. However, the one thing the Acura does have going for it is its 5-speed auto. I really loved that 2nd gear felt as steep as it did when I drove one. My bet is this is a pretty close race.

 

off the line .. my max would rip the TlS outta the hole (provided I could find traction ... so... if both TL-S and Max had slicks.. the Max was destroy the TLS outta the hole, but w/ streeters... uh uh.. it's a cat's game off the line).

On the highway... TL-S rules... shorter 3rd gear than the Max... pulls real strong into VTEC zone... pulls hard... Max is boggish on the highway .. all auto owners can attest to this... it takes a couple seconds after flooring it (from 70 mph) for it to pick up some wind...

In a dead heat from 0 to 1/4 mile... probably up to the road conditions and whether or not the max got traction ... it truly is up to the driver, and more than anything, up to luck.. I'll be arranging a race pretty soon b/w both my 02 TLS and my 03 Max Se.. I'll report back the results.

 

omg.. who the fawk cares anymore, so many **** people argueing about these two cars.. They are almost equal, drivers race, or whoever launches first.

 

ditto.

 

I agree totally after running one but after 100 its kind of embarresing for the tls

 

Actually the magic number is 110 MPH for the TL-S. The guy you raced was probably smarter and decided not to push over 100 MPH and your post proves that. And if you still insist that he was still racing, rest assured that the TLS has a higher top speed than the Maxima by atleast 10 mph (and possibly 19 mph according to the numbers posted on this board).

 

OK ******** let me guide you to the post of the guy I raced NOW CONSIDER YOURSELF n00b http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...5&pagenumber=1

 

WTF? how can you own someone on maxima.org when you're backing up a TLS. if anything you can say but to use the "owned on maxima.org" smiley when talking about how much better or faster or whatever an Acura is...that's ridiculous...

who is this guy?

shame on him for using the Maxima.org Owned Smiley when talking trash and siding with any car other than a maxima...regardless of who is right or wrong....or which car is faster/quicker

-vq

 

what do you think HP is? it's torque at high rpm...

the only reason the TL-S has more HP is because it keeps it's torque up at higher rpms, even though it's peak torque is never as much as the maxima's, it sustains it throughout the entire rev band...

there is no doubt, the TL-S has a great engine....but the TL-S weighs to much.

-vq

 

Am I the only one who picked up on this??? The VQ is an all-aluminum motor too slick. 1994's VE series Maxima motor had an iron block/aluminum heads. In 1995, the blocks became aluminum and it shaved about ~70lbs. off the engine's weight. The only reason the Acura's engine would be lighter is becuase it has less displacement, and it's probubly not even a significant number.


Possibly better then Honduh's VTEC?! I think the many magazines and auto enthusiasts have spoken about which V6 reigns supreme.

BTW, has any Acura TL-S ran a 13.7@100mph with the same mods as blubyu2k2? A few bolt-ons and a pair of slicks?

 

Just as I suspected: name-calling.

 

you called me out I just proved my point drive on through

 

Again my suspicion has been verified. You are making it seem as if engine and speed are the only two things people here care about (is it???). I mean, does a Maxima running a 13.7 @ 100mph with some mods make it OWN the TL-S? Remember, the topic is stock cars and I think the two match up very well stock for stock. It's like saying that a Honda Del Sol that I read about (runs 12.5 @ 1xx) is so much better than a Maxima.

There SHOULD be other dimensions to a car comparison. Like how come the TLS has less torque, less displacement, weighs 200-300 lbs more, and gets a lot better gas mileage than a Maxima, yet can still hang with it? Shouldn't the Maxima be a lot faster? It isn't and thats the reason a Max is a Max and not a TLS.

The Maxima is not an all-in-one car and neither is the TLS. If you want that, buy an M5 or E55AMG. Four doors, real sport sedan, real luxury, and real handling. Despite what you may think, your car is not the hottest **** on the road.

And remember this before you go TLS bashing:

"If the TL Type-S were an Olympian, it would be a decathlete — very good at every event but not necessarily the strongest in any single competition."

 

my guess is you drive a tls with that said. The tls has 5 more bhp and 14 less tq has better gearing so my guess is the tls should be faster than the maxima auto but is it? For a car that cost 7-8k more it should handle a lot better.. does it?? not to my knowledge. As for better gas mileage umm the tl gets 19/29 so I'm sure the better performing tls get about the same maybe slightly less is that better than the maxima ummm no. As for weight yes the maxima has the edge which is a good thing. Well as for the quote above I think the nissan VQ has made more of a statement over the years than any acura. enough said they are both nice cars but not in the same class or price range IMO.

 

You understood me wrong. I asked you if any TL-S has ran a 13.7@100mph on slicks with the same mods as blubyu2k2? I think he only has i/y/catback.

I doubt the TL-S weighs 200-300lbs. more then the Maxima. Any proof to this?

 

TL-S: 3558 lbs
MAX: 3274 lbs

 

Vandy786 your in Nashville, right?

If so, we've got a meet at the Opry Mills Mall tomorrow (03/22/03) around noon. http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....hreadid=191001

Stop by if you'd like. I'm curious too about the Max vs. TLS/CLS debate. We should go to Beech Bend raceway sometime.

Chat with you later,

2k2max

 

I raced my friend's stock TL-S. He has a drop in K&N filter.
We ran on the highway, he started first and I was behind him at abou 50mph, I dropped it into 3rd and by end of 4th gear I was about 6 cars or more in front. I was surprized that beat him that easily. I mean I just pulled and pulled on him.

Maybe his VTEC was broken

I know this question was about Auto vs Auto, but I think Auto Max should do pretty good as well.

 

vandy,

As a Maxima owner twice now, 1998, 2003...I am just glad that you are giving us the time of day...but I guess that's an attribute to your car being overpriced.

Honda doesn't make anything like the Maxima. The Accord is too small, and the TL-S is to expensive.

and NEITHER has a stick shift (but isn't the V6 Accord supposed to come with one soon?)

anyway, in the sporty/luxury segment, and at the same price range, we should be debating TL-S/CL-S vs the G35's...

and then the G35 is the smaller, but will out perform the TL-S...

I'm pretty sure the G35 is about the size of an Accord. But it has RWD (real sport sedan) and both come with manual tranny...correct me if I'm wrong but the TL-S only comes with 5 speed automatic.

POINT:

my point is, that just the fact that Acura owners give the Maxima the time of day in a debate shows just how great of a car the Maxima is.

peace out bro.

BTW, I looked at the TL-S before buying my Maxima, didn't want to pay that much...but good car. nice interior and all...

-vq

 

well the TLS will be available with the 6spd in 2004 and the hp will be bumped up. The Max i personally believe will be in the same range but with less power compared to the TLS. Secondly I believe that this thread has gone too far. Leave it be. This is like FORD or Chevy so no definite answers so who ever wins according to the variables.

 

Hey, an LS430 costs over $50k+ but do people complain how slow it is compared to a Maxima? There is a thing called class and the Maxima is one behind than the TLS in it. About the MPG, I am not talking about advertised figures. I am speaking about true MPG. From personal experience. I have a TLS and I have two close friends with 2k3 Max SE's. We all know how "reliable" Nissan's advertised stats are so I can't take them at face value.

As for handling, I can tell you have never driven a TLS. It is the best handling FWD made and I am confident it will beat a Maxima (torquesteer king) in the handling department. And I don't care about the VQ, I am talking about the vehicle known as the Maxima. Stop with the VQ this, VQ that..... Talk about the Maxima. I think some people have personally attacked the TLS here because they are jealous of it and feel threated by it. Maybe its those people that overpayed because as far as I hear, the 03 model Altima is bigger, faster, and cheaper than the 03 Maxima.

 

BUWHAHAHAHAHA

 

never attacked it and I respect it b/c its a nice car. Overpaid lol you get what you pay for I believe thats why the tls is a better overall quality car because it 7-8k more. Good luck with your tranny

 

I would love to join you guys. That's pretty cool for you to invite me even though I don't own a Maxima. From the behavior of some of the members here, I didn't exactly expect such a welcome. I drive a 02 TLS but two of my friends (oxidizer2k and maximumflame on this board) drive Maximas so I'll probably be joining them. Hope none of the haters attend though. They seem to have a huge problem with the TLS. Enjoy what you have or agonize over what you don't.