2003 SE 6th to 3rd Gear Crunch
06-13-2003, 07:06 AM
#1
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2003 SE 6th to 3rd Gear Crunch
When I am exiting the highway I frequently want do do a downshift from cruising in 6th gear to 3rd gear for sweeping turns in the exit ramp. However, whenever I try this I get a bit of "crunching" as I go into 3rd gear.
I'm wondering if I've got a problem with the 3rd gear synchronizer or if I'm just asking too much of it. I'm ususally doing this at 60-65 mph. I'm certainly not overreving the engine on this since 3rd gear at this speed is only in the 4000 rpm range.
It also does this if I do the downshift from 5th (same speeds) when I've tried it to diagnose the problem. However, I rarely do this since I'm normally in 6th at highway speed and the downshift from 5th to 3rd is awkward.
Is this "normal" or is it something I need to bring in for warantee work? Any TSBs on this? Should I be double clutching for this move? I wouldn't think so since this is what synchronizers are for.
I'm wondering if I've got a problem with the 3rd gear synchronizer or if I'm just asking too much of it. I'm ususally doing this at 60-65 mph. I'm certainly not overreving the engine on this since 3rd gear at this speed is only in the 4000 rpm range.
It also does this if I do the downshift from 5th (same speeds) when I've tried it to diagnose the problem. However, I rarely do this since I'm normally in 6th at highway speed and the downshift from 5th to 3rd is awkward.
Is this "normal" or is it something I need to bring in for warantee work? Any TSBs on this? Should I be double clutching for this move? I wouldn't think so since this is what synchronizers are for.
06-13-2003, 07:08 AM
#2
You should be rev matching your downshifts or slow down a lil. Our tranny's are not meant for driving hard and fast shifting. The syncro's need time to slow down and catch the next gear..
06-13-2003, 09:07 AM
#3
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,216
There was a VERY long thread on this topic about 6-8 months ago. Basically, like PCguru said, our tranny is not a performance one, and the synchros there are not capable of such "drastic" matching of output/input shafts.
So, if you're looking to skip gears like that, try to double-clutch and it should be smoother. But I'd try to stay away from 6-3 downshifts altogether.
So, if you're looking to skip gears like that, try to double-clutch and it should be smoother. But I'd try to stay away from 6-3 downshifts altogether.
06-13-2003, 11:00 AM
#4
Our tranny is a crappy one. It is very notchy and shifts are not smooth at all.
Two gears that I hate in this tranny are 2nd and 3rd. Everytime when I am shifing up or shifting down, to those gears the shifter feels so ****ty like somethiung grinding there.
Two gears that I hate in this tranny are 2nd and 3rd. Everytime when I am shifing up or shifting down, to those gears the shifter feels so ****ty like somethiung grinding there.
06-13-2003, 11:21 AM
#5
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i get that 3rd gear crunch also when I am performance driving...
but if Nissan's claim is that it's not a "performance" tranny, why does it only do it in 3rd gear?
I say it's a faulty design...and Nissan uses that as an excuse...
a 6 speed not meant for performance? that's rediculous. I bet Altima guys don't have any "3rd Gear Crunch" going from 5th to 3rd...
it's a faulty tranny...
I used to be able to do it in my 1994.5 Sentra LE with the ga16de engine, and 5 speed, I could do it with my 1998 Sentra SE with the sr20de engine and close ration 5 speed...
this tranny sucks, it is SUPPOSED to be able to do it, but something is wrong in the design, and Nissan doesn't want to fess up to it.
-vq
but if Nissan's claim is that it's not a "performance" tranny, why does it only do it in 3rd gear?
I say it's a faulty design...and Nissan uses that as an excuse...
a 6 speed not meant for performance? that's rediculous. I bet Altima guys don't have any "3rd Gear Crunch" going from 5th to 3rd...
it's a faulty tranny...
I used to be able to do it in my 1994.5 Sentra LE with the ga16de engine, and 5 speed, I could do it with my 1998 Sentra SE with the sr20de engine and close ration 5 speed...
this tranny sucks, it is SUPPOSED to be able to do it, but something is wrong in the design, and Nissan doesn't want to fess up to it.
-vq
06-13-2003, 11:26 AM
#6
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,216
Originally posted by VQMAN
this tranny sucks, it is SUPPOSED to be able to do it, but something is wrong in the design, and Nissan doesn't want to fess up to it.
-vq
this tranny sucks, it is SUPPOSED to be able to do it, but something is wrong in the design, and Nissan doesn't want to fess up to it.
-vq
06-13-2003, 11:36 AM
#8
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Posts: n/a
Originally posted by vito1281
I'm almost positive the synchros are to blame. I know there are several different types of synchros, some being performance oriented (and more expensive), while others are the normal, run of the mill type.
I'm almost positive the synchros are to blame. I know there are several different types of synchros, some being performance oriented (and more expensive), while others are the normal, run of the mill type.
why would they put performance synchros in the tranny of a 1.6L powered Sentra and even the SR20DE powered Sentra, and put them in the Altima, and every other Nissan I've driven, but not put them in the flagship 6 speed SE?
if they put bad synchros in there, they shouldn't have. but why just bad ones on the 3rd Cog?
I think they somehow only put "lesser" synchros on the 3rd gear, and don't want to explain themselves...other than to say the ENTIRE tranny isn't meant for performance driving...
3rd 4th and 5 speed 5th Gen Maximas were meant for it, they all have no problem shifting from top gear to 3rd to "performance drive"...
and anyone who says "slow down" in regards to getting rid of the problem...that's rediculous...its like, "hey doc, my leg hurts when I bend it, what can I do?" doc says.."Son, quit bending it.."
that's abusrd.
-vq
06-13-2003, 11:43 AM
#9
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,216
Originally posted by VQMAN
Synchros are to blame, but only the synchros in 3rd Gear?
why would they put performance synchros in the tranny of a 1.6L powered Sentra and even the SR20DE powered Sentra, and put them in the Altima, and every other Nissan I've driven, but not put them in the flagship 6 speed SE?
if they put bad synchros in there, they shouldn't have. but why just bad ones on the 3rd Cog?
I think they somehow only put "lesser" synchros on the 3rd gear, and don't want to explain themselves...other than to say the ENTIRE tranny isn't meant for performance driving...
3rd 4th and 5 speed 5th Gen Maximas were meant for it, they all have no problem shifting from top gear to 3rd to "performance drive"...
and anyone who says "slow down" in regards to getting rid of the problem...that's rediculous...its like, "hey doc, my leg hurts when I bend it, what can I do?" doc says.."Son, quit bending it.."
that's abusrd.
-vq
Synchros are to blame, but only the synchros in 3rd Gear?
why would they put performance synchros in the tranny of a 1.6L powered Sentra and even the SR20DE powered Sentra, and put them in the Altima, and every other Nissan I've driven, but not put them in the flagship 6 speed SE?
if they put bad synchros in there, they shouldn't have. but why just bad ones on the 3rd Cog?
I think they somehow only put "lesser" synchros on the 3rd gear, and don't want to explain themselves...other than to say the ENTIRE tranny isn't meant for performance driving...
3rd 4th and 5 speed 5th Gen Maximas were meant for it, they all have no problem shifting from top gear to 3rd to "performance drive"...
and anyone who says "slow down" in regards to getting rid of the problem...that's rediculous...its like, "hey doc, my leg hurts when I bend it, what can I do?" doc says.."Son, quit bending it.."
that's abusrd.
-vq
Also, Nissan is "new" to making 6sp trannys, so I'm sure they ****ed something up in the R&D aspect, or simply cut corners.
It's not just the 3rd gear. You ever try to put the shifter into 1st if you're going above creeping speed (above, say, 5mph)? It doesn't want to go in. Now, on my friend's Lancer 5sp, it goes into 1st smooth as butter at 15mph.
The 6sp is just not that great of a transmission relative to other car makers. I'm sure it's not the worst, but it's far from being at the top of the list.
When you go from 6-3, you're jumping 3 gears. Try going 5-2, and I bet you it won't be smooth either.
06-13-2003, 12:23 PM
#10
I don't know about other Nissan cars and their manual trannies that Nissan makes, but I used to own 95 SE and 2000 SE and both of them were 5-speed and those tranny were pretty crappy as well. Maybe I just got the crappy ones but I never liked them. This 6-speed tranny might be even worse compared to the other two 5-speed I had.
Nissan has been cutting corners for a while now, it is just sad, as really like the car, but those things just make you upset everytime you drive it.
Nissan has been cutting corners for a while now, it is just sad, as really like the car, but those things just make you upset everytime you drive it.
06-13-2003, 12:29 PM
#11
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,216
There are a few things that **** me off about this 6sp. I'll just list them real quick here, and maybe you guys can comment on it as well.
1. When the car is still cold (even on a hot day, but when I just start it up), the tranny shifts like I'm in a rodeo. Unless I feather the crap out of it, the 1-2, 2-3 shifts are jerky like a biatch. Very annoying when you have passengers in the car. Makes you look like a rookie driver. I'm assuming it's the same w/all the 6sp trannies. Once I drive it for a bit and the tranny oil warms up, it smoothes out.
2. Clutch travel is very long. That's fine, it bothered me when I first got the car, but have since got used to it. However, I can't help but feel like this just tears the clutch up since you have to drag it through such a long engagement "zone".
3. Like I mentioned previously, getting into 1st gear while going over 5mph is almost impossible at first try. Have to double-clutch and/or slow down to almost a halt to slide it in. I usually don't throw into first anyways unless I'm stopping completely, but sometimes in traffic, while creeping around 5mph and going up a hill, I'd like to get the power out of 1st, but end up struggling to get into gear.
4. Engagement seems inconsistent. Sometimes it catches quicker/harder and other times it's slower/weaker.
I hope this is the same on most 6sp, and not just mine.
1. When the car is still cold (even on a hot day, but when I just start it up), the tranny shifts like I'm in a rodeo. Unless I feather the crap out of it, the 1-2, 2-3 shifts are jerky like a biatch. Very annoying when you have passengers in the car. Makes you look like a rookie driver. I'm assuming it's the same w/all the 6sp trannies. Once I drive it for a bit and the tranny oil warms up, it smoothes out.
2. Clutch travel is very long. That's fine, it bothered me when I first got the car, but have since got used to it. However, I can't help but feel like this just tears the clutch up since you have to drag it through such a long engagement "zone".
3. Like I mentioned previously, getting into 1st gear while going over 5mph is almost impossible at first try. Have to double-clutch and/or slow down to almost a halt to slide it in. I usually don't throw into first anyways unless I'm stopping completely, but sometimes in traffic, while creeping around 5mph and going up a hill, I'd like to get the power out of 1st, but end up struggling to get into gear.
4. Engagement seems inconsistent. Sometimes it catches quicker/harder and other times it's slower/weaker.
I hope this is the same on most 6sp, and not just mine.
06-13-2003, 12:44 PM
#12
Originally posted by vito1281
There are a few things that **** me off about this 6sp. I'll just list them real quick here, and maybe you guys can comment on it as well.
1. When the car is still cold (even on a hot day, but when I just start it up), the tranny shifts like I'm in a rodeo. Unless I feather the crap out of it, the 1-2, 2-3 shifts are jerky like a biatch. Very annoying when you have passengers in the car. Makes you look like a rookie driver. I'm assuming it's the same w/all the 6sp trannies. Once I drive it for a bit and the tranny oil warms up, it smoothes out.
2. Clutch travel is very long. That's fine, it bothered me when I first got the car, but have since got used to it. However, I can't help but feel like this just tears the clutch up since you have to drag it through such a long engagement "zone".
3. Like I mentioned previously, getting into 1st gear while going over 5mph is almost impossible at first try. Have to double-clutch and/or slow down to almost a halt to slide it in. I usually don't throw into first anyways unless I'm stopping completely, but sometimes in traffic, while creeping around 5mph and going up a hill, I'd like to get the power out of 1st, but end up struggling to get into gear.
4. Engagement seems inconsistent. Sometimes it catches quicker/harder and other times it's slower/weaker.
I hope this is the same on most 6sp, and not just mine.
There are a few things that **** me off about this 6sp. I'll just list them real quick here, and maybe you guys can comment on it as well.
1. When the car is still cold (even on a hot day, but when I just start it up), the tranny shifts like I'm in a rodeo. Unless I feather the crap out of it, the 1-2, 2-3 shifts are jerky like a biatch. Very annoying when you have passengers in the car. Makes you look like a rookie driver. I'm assuming it's the same w/all the 6sp trannies. Once I drive it for a bit and the tranny oil warms up, it smoothes out.
2. Clutch travel is very long. That's fine, it bothered me when I first got the car, but have since got used to it. However, I can't help but feel like this just tears the clutch up since you have to drag it through such a long engagement "zone".
3. Like I mentioned previously, getting into 1st gear while going over 5mph is almost impossible at first try. Have to double-clutch and/or slow down to almost a halt to slide it in. I usually don't throw into first anyways unless I'm stopping completely, but sometimes in traffic, while creeping around 5mph and going up a hill, I'd like to get the power out of 1st, but end up struggling to get into gear.
4. Engagement seems inconsistent. Sometimes it catches quicker/harder and other times it's slower/weaker.
I hope this is the same on most 6sp, and not just mine.
Clutch travel really doesn't bother me. I really got used to it, this is my 3rd Maxima, previous 2 were 5-speeds and clutch travel was indetical.
It was funny but I was driving my friend's 350Z and his clutch travel is much shorter so I was kinda struggling to drive it first couple minutes.
Also about not being able to put into 1st when rolling, this is true too, but I almost never do it, because car has so much torque, no need to use 1st. Heck I almost never use 2nd either.
Only when I am almost completly stopped of course.
06-13-2003, 01:07 PM
#13
i have no problems donwshifting into first when in traffic or going up a hill at about 5 mph
also my tranny seems to shift the same when warmed up and when cold
long clutch travel is a *****, but yo uget used ot it though
also my tranny seems to shift the same when warmed up and when cold
long clutch travel is a *****, but yo uget used ot it though
06-13-2003, 01:23 PM
#14
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,216
Originally posted by jeepik
i have no problems donwshifting into first when in traffic or going up a hill at about 5 mph
also my tranny seems to shift the same when warmed up and when cold
long clutch travel is a *****, but yo uget used ot it though
i have no problems donwshifting into first when in traffic or going up a hill at about 5 mph
also my tranny seems to shift the same when warmed up and when cold
long clutch travel is a *****, but yo uget used ot it though
When I was talking about shifting while cold, I didn't mean that the shifter is notchy or whatever, but that the clutch uptake is very rough compared to when it warms up. Unless you're slipping the clutch a lot, I don't see why yours would be smoother than others. But then again, who knows.
Also, are you still on factory trans oil?
06-13-2003, 01:28 PM
#15
Originally posted by vito1281
Not that this probably matters, but what's the build date of your Max?
When I was talking about shifting while cold, I didn't mean that the shifter is notchy or whatever, but that the clutch uptake is very rough compared to when it warms up. Unless you're slipping the clutch a lot, I don't see why yours would be smoother than others. But then again, who knows.
Also, are you still on factory trans oil?
Not that this probably matters, but what's the build date of your Max?
When I was talking about shifting while cold, I didn't mean that the shifter is notchy or whatever, but that the clutch uptake is very rough compared to when it warms up. Unless you're slipping the clutch a lot, I don't see why yours would be smoother than others. But then again, who knows.
Also, are you still on factory trans oil?
06-13-2003, 02:21 PM
#16
I must have a tranny where they switched the 3rd and 4th synchros b/c ny 4th gear is the only one that ****es me off to no end. I've gotten into the habit of pulling harder on that gear than the others and I can't imagine that treating it like that is a good thing. However, the alternative is taking my time and having my timing so messed up that I inadvertently start letting out the clutch before the gear is engaged. Its really a no win situation, well, except a win for Nissan since they have my money. I can only hope that if there is any problem related to the 4th gear synchro, its still under warranty.
06-13-2003, 03:17 PM
#17
Originally posted by vito1281
There are a few things that **** me off about this 6sp. I'll just list them real quick here, and maybe you guys can comment on it as well.
1. When the car is still cold (even on a hot day, but when I just start it up), the tranny shifts like I'm in a rodeo. Unless I feather the crap out of it, the 1-2, 2-3 shifts are jerky like a biatch. Very annoying when you have passengers in the car. Makes you look like a rookie driver. I'm assuming it's the same w/all the 6sp trannies. Once I drive it for a bit and the tranny oil warms up, it smoothes out.
2. Clutch travel is very long. That's fine, it bothered me when I first got the car, but have since got used to it. However, I can't help but feel like this just tears the clutch up since you have to drag it through such a long engagement "zone".
3. Like I mentioned previously, getting into 1st gear while going over 5mph is almost impossible at first try. Have to double-clutch and/or slow down to almost a halt to slide it in. I usually don't throw into first anyways unless I'm stopping completely, but sometimes in traffic, while creeping around 5mph and going up a hill, I'd like to get the power out of 1st, but end up struggling to get into gear.
4. Engagement seems inconsistent. Sometimes it catches quicker/harder and other times it's slower/weaker.
I hope this is the same on most 6sp, and not just mine.
There are a few things that **** me off about this 6sp. I'll just list them real quick here, and maybe you guys can comment on it as well.
1. When the car is still cold (even on a hot day, but when I just start it up), the tranny shifts like I'm in a rodeo. Unless I feather the crap out of it, the 1-2, 2-3 shifts are jerky like a biatch. Very annoying when you have passengers in the car. Makes you look like a rookie driver. I'm assuming it's the same w/all the 6sp trannies. Once I drive it for a bit and the tranny oil warms up, it smoothes out.
2. Clutch travel is very long. That's fine, it bothered me when I first got the car, but have since got used to it. However, I can't help but feel like this just tears the clutch up since you have to drag it through such a long engagement "zone".
3. Like I mentioned previously, getting into 1st gear while going over 5mph is almost impossible at first try. Have to double-clutch and/or slow down to almost a halt to slide it in. I usually don't throw into first anyways unless I'm stopping completely, but sometimes in traffic, while creeping around 5mph and going up a hill, I'd like to get the power out of 1st, but end up struggling to get into gear.
4. Engagement seems inconsistent. Sometimes it catches quicker/harder and other times it's slower/weaker.
I hope this is the same on most 6sp, and not just mine.
06-13-2003, 09:43 PM
#19
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 42
Just about any tranny is going to have gear clash if you downshift form 6th to 3rd without double clutching. There is just too much of a discrepancy between engine and tranny speeds. Same thing applies as youre exiting the highway. If you throw it into neutral and coast for a bit on the off-ramp, you can't just ram it into third gear if the engine revs are at idle (synchros or not). You have to match your rpms with a blip of the throttle, then engage the clutch, then shift into the desired gear. I know it sounds slow, but man you will save yourself a ton of tranny headaches by not chewing your synchros into dust. It amazes me how double clutching seems like some huge secret.
-Getz
-Getz
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