how is it done?
i know has to be done with the ODB-II, but just want to know how it's done.

 

you cant do it with any obd-II reader. it has to be done with consult 2 which nissan uses exclusively. hence the reason some have trouble having it performed. it is changed simply through changing the setting in the ecu from the consult.

 

Is advanced timing dangerous for the engine?

 

If you only advance it to +17° BTDC, then no. But if you advance it more than that, it can be. Also, if you are SC/Turbo/FI, then you want your timing at normal, if not actually retarded (which the FMU/ECU would do).

 

It can promote pinging/detonation, moreso than normal, but if you don't advance it much, and use premium gas ALL the time, it may yield better performance. However, if it pings a lot (or worse, detonates) your performance will suffer as the Knock Sensor will cause the ECU to retard the timing somewhat unpredictably, and if it continues on a lot you can damage the engine.

 

Exactly how much performance gain is there from advancing your timing? Is it noticable? Is this the type of thing to do only to boosted cars or N/A?

J.

 

you should notice a difference even stock NA. i had a few mods when i had mine advanced and i could definately feel a bump in power in lower rpms. it also promotes efficiency of the motor and a slight bump in mpg was noticed by myself and a few other members. the best way to describe is that it takes less effort to come up to speed from a stop or low roll.

 

Sloppy, do I just ask my dealer to have this done? How much does it cost?

Also, I did that mod you told me about with the tube leading air from the scoop to the intake. Did you use dryer vent tubing for yours? That's what I did.

Thanks

 

It's cost is $40 to $5 at the dealer. Some dealers may turn you down for it because they say it's out of specification, but it actually is within specification for the engine. I got rejected at the first dealer I went to, but the second one had no problem with it.

 

i had mine done at a local shop that specializes in nissan and infiniti. i found out they purchased the consult 2 from nissan so blubyu2k2 and i bugged them for a while and they allowed us to use the consult and we actually did it ourselves. it was real straight forward and took no time at all. blu had his done for free since he was having some other work done and i think i paid like 20 since that was all i was there for. i couldnt tell you the name of the stuff i used on my intake, it was some kind of hest resistant large tubing used on carbureted cars. i went with it cause it dark to blend in the bay but it probably ends up holding more heat because of the color than the reflective color of dryer vent.

 

I remember reading that the ECU won't let you go more than 2 degrees up or down from the factory setting, which is 15° BTDC. So anything under 13° or above 17° would be rejected.

 

OK, Where can I get my timing advanced besides the nissan dealer in NY ASAP. I have to be ready by wed.

 

Not true

I had mine advanced 3 degrees... and the tech who did it for me has a 2003 Max that he also advanced 3 degrees.

=R

 

Right, but was your stock setting at 14° or 15° before he did it? Some Maximas come set at 14° from the factory, meaning you could increase it 3° to get to 17° BTDC. I think the ECU assumes 15° is the factory setting and allows +/- 2° from there. This could be wrong, it's just what I've read on the org.

 

Ok...I wish the search feature worked, so I don't have to repeat this but anywho.

First, the stock timing for a 2K1 is 15-degrees +/-5, so 20-degrees is within spec.. However, I've seen a 2K FSM say +/-2 for the same car. I'm not sure what the FSM recommends for the 2K2, but I'm sure 5-degrees is perfectly fine.

Second, the reason you can't bump the timing more then 2-3degrees before the ECU stops you is because you need to perform an IDLE AIR VOLUME LEARNING procedure after 2-3degrees, then try advancing it further. My THEORY on why this occurs is because as you advance the timing, you're also increasing the base idle, which the ECU controls by adjusting the timing so it stays in spec.. Once you modify any parameter the ECU relies on for base values such as base timing, base idle, TPS value, or MAF value far enough, you must perform an IAVL procedure, so I'm expecting that is the reason why you can't go past 2-3degrees.

Third, this ECU advance is ONLY base ignition timing, which will be overcome/outweighed by the normal advance that is added throughout the RPM band. So, you may eek out a little more power from say idle to 2000rpm, but after that the ECU has added far more advance and accounted for the base-timing change.

Fourth, I doubt this mod is very beneficial to MANUAL transmission cars, because of how we normally throttle up the RPM(also adds advance) before we engage the clutch and shift above 2000rpm. However, cruising in a higher gear with the RPM below 2000rpm could be more responsive. I think the biggest gainers from this mod are for automatic trans. cars, where you just punch it off the line.

 

thanx man..i was weary in reposting this, since it has been mentioned many a times, but as we know, that search isnt'w orking well, and i tried every combination i could think of, with no avail. thanx though. we'll see what i do. i'm running this wed. i wanna finish up last minute tweeks before i hit the track.

 

Ice... thanks for the explanation! I think you spelled it out very well

 

Oh sweet....good explanation Ice.

 

FWIW, I have a manual tranny in my 2K SE and I definitely feel an improvement in low-end torque with my timing advance increased to 17 degrees BTDC. It's not a night and day difference, of course. But any mod that doesn't cost too much and improves low end performance on the 3.0L engine is worth it AFAIC.

 

Are we talking about advancing the base timing +2 degrees? From what I know about other cars I have worked on, advancing the base timing advances the timing that amount through the whole rev range barring any timing retard by an aftermarket ignition, or a knock sensor.
If you advance your base timing from 10 BTDC to 13 BTDC, you just moved the whole timing curve up my 3 degrees from idle to redline. Maybe things are different with the Maxima, I am not sure.

--Ray

 

That's only for mechanical advance systems.

Definitely NOT for distributorLESS ignition systems.

 

Butt dynos don't hold water on these small differences IMO.

I'm not saying don't do it just for the heck of it though.

 

Actually, that's not correct. The service manual specificlly states 15 degrees plus or minus 5 degrees, so a total of 20 degrees timing before top dead center is still within Nissan specs.

EDIT- Doh! I should have read the entire thread. Sorry to double post Icy!

 

FWIW and AFAIC??? You abbreviate whole sentences. :P

Bryan

 

Ok, the cars I worked on did have distributors, but not vacuum advanced.

--Ray

 

Edited..

I've only worked on vacuum advanced mechanical distributors.

 

I understand your point, Ice. But most who have had their timing advanced say that they can feel a difference, and I'm one of them. Inaccuracies of butt dynos notwithstanding, I agree that those who are interested should do it for the heck of it. Chances are, they'll like it too even if the performance increase doesn't really count.

 

If you think that's something, Bryan, you ought to see what I can do with smilies!

 

Agreed...too many people claim it makes a difference for me to easily discount it as the placebo effect. It can't hurt UNLESS you get detonation, which is unlikely so why not if it's not to much $$$$.

 

I didn't think my 89 Mustang GT or 95 Ford f-150 had vacuum advance. There is no vacuum line connected, I certainly could be wrong though.

 

Unlikely, but not impossible. I do, in fact, experience a little low rpm detonation in hot weather or when I heat soak my engine. I won't take the time to discuss why that may be happening, although I have my hunches. But the way I get around it is by adding 1 gallon of 100 octane gasoline to every 8 gallons of 91 octane I pour in the tank. (I'm in California, and all we can get here is crap 91 octane gas.) Doing that increases my overall octane rating to 92 and puts an end to the detonation no matter how high the temperature rises.

 

Gotta love Georgia gas!!! Our worst premium is 93 octane. I haven't had any audible pinging at all...

 

Do you have an OBD scanner?

It would be interesting to see if the ECU is retarding your timing to counter the detonation. However, if that's only when it occurs, I wouldn't worry. The ECU won't allow enough to be damaging.

The extra octane helps keep some of the power you normally have when it's not so hot out.

 

First of all...this thread is AWESOME. Most informative one I've read in a while.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is pre-detonation? In other words, if I had the timing advanced too high, this is something I would immediately notice and ask to have it re-adjusted? Is it just the opposite of knocking? I'm mostly interested that if I had the timing advanced and didn't like it for some reason, that I could be reasonable assured that a dealership could reverse it back to normal without having to take the car back a bazillion times and so on and so forth.

Tony

 

There is no such thing as "pre-detonation". It's either detonation or pre-ignition. Detonation is analogous(sp?) to pinging or knocking and depending on engine design, can occur for long periods of time without serious damage.

Pre-ignition will destroy the motor in seconds.

 

Sorry...pre-ignition is when the gas mixture in the cylinder is ignited before the cylinder reaches the top of its stroke? I assume this would be an extremely RARE occurrence if a certified dealership was the one performing the advancement?

Tony

 

I STRONGLY suggest you read this to understand more then you ever cared to know about this subject.

Engine Basics: Detonation and Pre-Ignition

 

thats a crazy article.........
Heres my 2cents.

i had my timing advanced by Nissan 2 degrees, using their Consult scan tool, so far they r the only scan tool with reflashing programs for our cars. i also made 2 trips to the dragstrip since, and have seen my MPH go up just a bit....

The theory is that the more timing advance u can get, without detonation, the more power u will produce, but the problem ur vq's have, is that we have some overactive knock senosrs (A good safety measure), so unless ur runnin in Ideal conditions with high octane gas, u won't see that few extra hp u CAN gain....

U guys may know this, but the most they can reset the timing with the scan tool is 3 Degrees off of factory base timing, in my case 15 degrees btdc...........

I'll shut up now

 

You missed page one?

 

yea, i saw page one, maybe i didn't read it too well, but nobody mentioned what the limits of the scan tool...since the factory only lets u modify timing plus or minus 3 degress.......
Yea....i thought the advance slighty helped, but then again...... along with my buddy, were tryin to setup a driver system for my Variable intake cams,, maybe that will help me more.......