Matto357

So, just curious, are there any laws at all that pertain to used car dealers disclosing if a car has been in an accident?

Didn't know exactly where to put this question.

NCTRNL

Not sure but there is always Carfax.

Matto357

Yeah, unfortunately I'm after the fact. So just curious if I can go after them for it.

2k2kev

that only shows up if it was reported (duh).

I believe they can always get out of it "legally" by claiming not to know for certain it was in an accident. Then it'd be up to you to prove they did know, and good luck with that.

Matto357

But there are laws about disclosure of those things? Cause I'd seriously call BS if a major dealer didn't carfax all their cars, and yeah, the accident is showing up on carfax.

2k2kev

did you sign a paper that says "bought as-is" ? If so, and if none of the major safety devices are compromised (broken brakes, airbag, seatbelt, etc) then I think you're SOL.

fishhouse

iTrader: (1)

Carfax DOESN'T tell you if a car has been in an accident! ONLY if it has been in an accident that totaled it (damage is 75% or more of value), or if it has a branded title (flood, savage, rebuilt, tmo, etc). in addition to odometer readings, etc, etc.

if your car was in a small fender bender a few years ago - that info WILL NOT show on CarFax.

and NO, i don't think there is any law that says they have to tell you. hense, the "BUYER BEWARE" and "SOLD AS IS" terms!

2k2kev

please read the whole thread next time...he already said the accident showed up in carfax.

NCTRNL

Man, 2K2wannabe, you are lippy today. Is it necessary to rip on everyone for their answers?

fishhouse

iTrader: (1)

i know that! i DID read the whole thread, thanks!!

i have direct a connection to CarFax and was simply clarifing for anyone reading what CarFax DOES and DOESN'T show you.

2k2kev

not being lippy, just would be lots happier if people took a few minutes to:

a) read

b) KNOW what they're talking about instead of guessing

c) post about things they ARE CERTAIN OF rather than things they heard from their cousin's best friend's dog's groomer's sister's aunt's boyfriend once removed

d) search (it's down on the org but google still works just fine, and it even finds maxima.org pages if you include "maxima.org" in the search string)

that is all... move along... nothing to see here.

fishhouse

iTrader: (1)

no ****! i think "smart a$$" might be a symptom of anyone with over 2000 post. or maybe he is just post dying to make it to 2600.

fishhouse

iTrader: (1)

i DID read. and as i said, i DO know. i AM CERTAIN of what i said. and i did donate and DO SEARCH.

so, i hope you weren't directing those towards me. done them all, thanks.

now move along. really nothing to see here.

2k2kev

again, no.

http://www.is-it-a-lemon.com/carfax/index.htm

That is what carfax shows you. Where do you get your "75% of value" thing?

My car shows up in carfax because I got rear-ended and the other guy's insurance paid me $600 to fix it.

Ferbs02SMMax

He's right ^^^

Larger companies (Allstate, State Farm) have WHOLE departments whose sole job is to enter data relative to auto losses, be it $200 or $2000. They do these on first party and third party (i.e. if it's your insurance policy, or if it's the other person's insurance policy).

Info is added daily into databases (NICB), where via a quick vin/name search, your accident and damages paid can be displayed. Most of the databases are linked, so if you have ever had a claim with a larger insurance company, there is most likely record of that loss...

I think buyer beware would apply in this case.

fishhouse

iTrader: (1)

the "75% of value" thing is the definition of a car being totaled. look on the link you posted above. a car is considered totaled if the cost of repairs is 75% or more of its value. like i said earlier.

where on that link do you see fender benders as one of the features a CarFax shows you?

it says:
"Totaled in an accident / Salvaged, Flood damage, Odometer rollbacks, Lemon histories, Junked Titles, State emissions inspection results, Lien activity, Vehicle use, crash test results, safety recalls, reliability ratings, warranty information, etc, etc."

all as i stated before. i see NOTHING about minor traffic accidents.

either way...doesn't matter. peace!

2k2kev

read my post

I got in a minor fender-bender and it shows up. If it was reported to insurace it SHOULD show up, but there are also thousands of cases of cars being totalled and NOT showing up. Carfax is a tool, but it's not 100% (not even close) reliable.

Mick Max

Uh... no disrespect here but did you ladies get your Tampons and your Jalapeneos mixed up?
Seriously Matto,
Do you have a lawyer you can talk to?
Can you have a good body shop inspect your car?
What type of problems are you having?

Matto357

Heh, thanks for taking it a bit seriously, overall, it's rather disheartening to find out that the car was wrecked and that the dealer didn't say a word about it.

Hrrm, as far as lawyers go, I'll have to ask my parents if they have any attorney friends. Personally I don't have a lawyer I've ever used, never had a use for one in 24 years so far.

Yeah, I'll have a body shop inspect it.

As far as problems, nothing huge, as of yet, I need to go get the tranny TSB done, and I'm thinking that the Coils need to be replaced (Or perhaps MAF, I'm having that funky cold engine surging thing going on now that it's really cold). But, the front bumper has been re-sprayed apparently and now the paint is flaking off (wasn't noticeable when I bought it, and I did give it a good looking over).

I would honestly think that there would be some kind of consumer protection laws.

Matto357

Also, here's what the carfax report says:

"Accident Reported
in Coweta County
Involving left rear impact
with another motor vehicle
Extensive damage reported"

So, I'm just curious, what the hell do they mean by extensive damage? Also, was there left rear impact to my car, or did my car hit another car in the left rear.

Mick Max

Matto,
You are feeling as badly betrayed as could be possible.
I will tell you that a car can be fixed just as good as new and lets hope that this is the case with your car. I would not know about GA laws.
PM Quicksilver and WillSE. They are at least fairly local to you.
May recom. lawyer, know what your rights are, and may have other ideas.
How long ago did you get the car. Some states have a 3 day, buyers regret cancellation. Is the prev owners name anywhere in the manuals?
can you do a title search and fine prev owner and call them?

Matto357

Yeah, I know the car could be very well repaired, in fact, it probably was if it was a rear impact to my car, as I looked at it very closely tonight on the rear end and it looks to be fairly well aligned, no major gaps in the panels, undersection looks clean and I couldn't see any welds that didn't look like they were factory.

I'm gonna write a letter to the dealership, it's a fairly large one here in Atlanta, and we were return customers to the place, bought a new honda pilot from there less than a year ago as well.

Matto357

Heh, actually, that previous owner idea might not be that bad of an idea, I think there is an old oil change reciept in the glove box.

BG2K

I am a used car dealer. There is no law that says I have to tell you anything. At least in Massachusetts. Any car sold by a lease co., or a bank, at any auction I go to, must be declared if there was frame/unibody damage. Other dealers do not disclose this to each other when they sell each other cars. It's common practice for a dealer to buy a damaged car at one place for a lot less than it's worth, then take it to another auction and sell it like nothing was wrong, and make a few grand on the wholesale. I take pride in selling only high-quality vehicles. I spent $500.00 on a paint meter that reads the thickness of the paint. If it isn't uniform, I won't buy it. Carfax scans ALL public records for "accident indicators". Accidents in Mass. are not reported by the police unless they are over $1000.00 in damage.

-My $.02

Mick Max

Matto,
Find somebody who has one of those $500 paint meters that BG2K
has. Then you can map out your paint and that might tell you the story.

Matto357

Ohh, that's also a good idea. Welp, I've got a very busy few weeks ahead of me after the christmas holiday is up.

1. Write letter to car dealer about selling me a car that had been in an accident and not saying a word.

2. Take car into dealership to get Tranny TSB done.

3. Send $300 to Dave B in exchange for coils.

4. Take car to body shop to have it checked out

5. Go to doctor to have the massive **** tearing that 1-4 caused repaired.

6. ????

7. Profit!!!

paralyse

If a vehicle has been totalled or otherwise completely trashed, and has a SALVAGE or RECONDITIONED or THEFT RECOVERY title, the Dealer (in Texas) must disclose that to you in their "odometer statement" which is part of the sales contract or a separate form. The customer must also sign one if they are trading in their vehicle. You can get in a LOT of trouble as a dealer if you sell cars with these "tainted" titles without disclosure.

Our policy when i was in used car sales was that all trade-ins we took in, if the car had a "tainted" title, max we gave was $500 for it, and it was immediately sent to auction.

If a car has been wrecked in some way and then repaired, the dealer is (here) under no obligation to let you know. In most cases, the dealer doesn't know -- if I am working a deal and ask the customer if the car's been wrecked, what fool is stupid enough to say "yeah, i got rear ended 6 times and sideswiped 2 posts!"...? Most repairs don't damage the structural integrity or safety of a vehicle and are merely cosmetic in nature, but that's why you are buying a used car -- because if you wanted perfection you'd be looking at '04 Maximas, right?


The best advice I can give you is to have a competent body man or mechanic go over the car even if the dealer says it's been inspected or checked. Most damage is hard to tell without putting the car up on a lift. If the dealer won't let you check the car out go somewhere else. And don't trust carfax, not all insurance companies report it, and there are ways of changing carfax data on a given vin...