2kGLE

Do you have to prove that you changed (or had someone change) your oil to get warranty work done for an engine? If the dealer refuses to do engine warranty work because they say you havent had your oil changed soon enough cant you do an oil test to prove the oil was fine? Where can i get an oil test done?

This is a little OT because it actually concerns my cousin's saturn. Apparently her engine died and the dealer is giving her this bs about the oil. I dont know exactly what the law is on this. But i figured if anyone would know, it would be someone on the ORG who is used to our crappy nissan service.

RHD MAX

Since i got a 100k mile warranty with my 2k SE they told me i needed to provide recipts for all oil changes not done by the Dealership to keep the warranty from being void.

fishhouse

iTrader: (1)

i've heard of people being asked to show receipts of where they purchased the oil/service/etc....that is why i always keep detailed records.

so, it is not unheard of. unless they have some reason to suspect she didn't change it - i wouldn't sweat it. just complain like crazy. call the Manager and/or Saturn corporate offices to b1tch.

they can't refuse you unless they have proof or good evidence of some sort!

-Red-

iTrader: (2)

I believe by law they can not void warranty on her car simply because she had maintenance performed somewhere else. They can however ask for the proof that maintenance has in fact been performed. She could run into trouble if she is unable to provide the proof.

[maxi-overdose]

iTrader: (3)

if your engine has mechanical problem, oil test should indicate excessive metal deposit or signs of coolant (high sodium level), etc. Blackstone oil lab can provide such service. It also has a TBN (total base number) test to indicate the working condition of the oil. if your oil is in the engine for 50k miles, the TBN number will be really low.


ask the dealer if they can prove that the engine oil in your cousin's saturn is causing the problem. of course, they will ask you to pay a super expensive inspection fee so they can scare you away. Ask them what's involved in the inspection, sometimes they dont even know and try to come up with some stupid BS. I caught my Chrysler dealer service rep tried to do this to me. embarassed the crap out of him.

if the dealer cant prove it (professional test, not just looking at the oil color, etc.) then they should honor your warranty.

2k2kev

yes they can.... all they have to do is say "the problem was caused because you didn't change the oil in a timely manner" and then it's up to you to prove otherwise.

when I sold my last car the new owner wanted to transfer the extended warranty. I had to take all the receipts to the honda dealer and show them I had my oil changed every 3k miles or they absolutely would NOT honor the warranty.

if she can't prove her oil was changed every 3k miles she should find a "friendly mechanic" to make up some receipts... assuming that she did actually change her oil and just can't find the receipts, right??

2kGLE

I just got off the phone with her and i have some more details. Apparently something in the engine broke (she didnt know exactly what thye said it was; i will get the exact details when i go in) and punched a hole in the metal. I guess this caused the oil to drain out, because they say there is not oil in the engine. They say the reason the engine broke is because there was no oil in the engine when she drove it because she had not changed it since the last time they changed it. But she changed it less than 3k ago. She has the sticker from jiffylube or whatever, she just cant find the recipe. Im gonna go in there and give them a hard time. If i can get any oil that may be left out of the engine i will have it tested to prove the oil was in working condition.

2k2kev

go to jiffy lube and get a report... they'll have her records.

dealers are a-holes

fishhouse

iTrader: (1)

right, IF YOU WOULD OF READ MY WHOLE POST...you would of seen this:
"show receipts of where they purchased the oil/service/etc....that is why i always keep detailed records".

so like "Lippy" and i said, you may have to show reciepts.

2k2kev

Jackass, you were wrong in the other thread so don't take it out on me here. You stated the dealer can't deny you without evidence. YES they can EVEN WITH NO EVIDENCE, and then it's up to you to prove otherwise.

So jackass, your statement they can't refuse you unless they have proof or good evidence of some sort is wrong.

fishhouse

iTrader: (1)

wow, we agree on something today. i can quit posting now...all is better.

fishhouse

iTrader: (1)

oh...i give up.

you are right. i'm wrong. forgive me. make love not war.

Ma><iManiac

12345

CCS2k1Max

iTrader: (2)

What if you drive your car minimally and do not follow the 3 month or so guideline, and just change the oil when you reach 3k miles. It would seem a rather easy excuse for the a-hole dealer to decline the claim.

fishhouse

iTrader: (1)

also, to clarify my earlier statement:

when i said
"they can't refuse you unless they have proof or good evidence of some sort!"

i meant that they shouldn't be able claim something like that unless they have some reason to think so. like your engine has no oil, as the problem in this thread.

wouldn't it be like illegal or something for a dealership to deny service of a perfectly fine vehicle (that has had all service done) for no other reason (or with no reason to suspect) that it had been neglicted?

i know they CAN do that if it HAS in fact been neglicted. but there should be some reason why they think that.

does that make any sense? maybe i'm still not saying that right. anyways...i tried.

please don't yell at me 2k2wannabe!

BiggD23

I think the burden of proof would fall squarely on the dealer. That's not to say that they wouldn't TRY to deny you service...in fact I would almost expect them to deny it at first. You figure if they deny 10 people and 7 simply accept it and walk away or even better pay for the repairs out of pocket then they just made themselves more $$$. The question is whether or not their denial would hold up under any sort of legal scrutiny...which I doubt it would. My money says complaining enough to the service manager and then to Nissan Corp. directly if necessary would get this resolved before any legal action was necessary. It's just not worth the litigation costs to them to argue a weak case at best. My $.02.

-Red-

iTrader: (2)

While I fail to see how complaining to Nissan will help repair her Saturn, I agree that burden of proof should be with the dealer, however this isn't the case. Having dealt with a series of warranty issues with GM, I can honestly tell you that maintenance is the first thing they look at as means of disqualifying someone from getting major repairs under warranty.

CCS2k1Max

iTrader: (2)

Regarding Nissan, you're dreaming. I had the brake judder work done on my car and weeks later Nissan extended the TSB coverage include my model year, extending the warranty to 3y/36k mi. Do you think NNA honored my formal appeal???

A lot of people go to the stealer for oil changes just to "develop a relationship" with them just for the eventual need of "goodwill" from them. I've seen GM be extremely "generous" with people that buy and service their cars a stealership and their trannys go at 61-65K mi.

2k2kev

not worth the litigation ... they make about $1k off you for buying the car. If you buy one every 3 years (about average in US) then they might expect you to come back and get another a long time from now. But you come in with an engine-swap problem and thats' going to cost $5k in parts and labor. They have to wait, what, 15 years to get that money back so they break even on your business?

Expect the dealer to stonewall you. Legal/illegal... whatever, they're not going to offer to fix anything and will only do an engine-swap type repair if pretty much forced to. And if corporate tells the dealer not to then you have to fight them. 99% of the time the car owner is NOT going to get to the point where s/he goes to court... most of us need a car and can't wait the months it would take so would end up a)getting it fixed and paying, b)taking their "generous" offer to waive the labor cost (their first olive branch), or c) getting it running well enough to dump on a used car dealer as a trade-in .Sorry, but my cynical self says "legal or not, this is what's going to happen."

[maxi-overdose]

iTrader: (3)

things getting a little bit out of control in this thread

anyways....if the dealer can prove that low oil is causing the problem, then she might have to pay for the repair...or jiffy lube. Is this only happened in one cylinder or every cylinder got pretty messed up? usually low oil pressure will mess up the entire engine.

from what you are saying....it seems that they werent sure which part happened first. did the block got poked first? or the oil got drained first? Was there a low oil pressure light before this happened?

if the dealer blamed on low oil pressure as the cause of the problem, then even the oil is in good working condition is not going to help. ask her if she remembers the low oil p. light went on.


first the dealer says no oil change, now they say low oil pressure. hmmmm......interesting.

Zero Deuce SE

I saw a 02 Maxima at my local dealer last month that came in because it was blowing smoke from the exhaust. The tech tore down the engine and found a bunch of sludge and tarnish. They suspected the oil had not been changed since the 8k miles mark. The car has about 22k miles on it when it was brought in. The customer showed them receipts (suspected of being phony) and Nissan installed a brand new engine in his car. The tech told me they could not deny him warranty coverage because he showed them proof of oil changes.

2kGLE

yeah a little out of control..
i think the block got poked first because she never got an low oil light. i will have to go down to the dealer and get the whole story. Hopefully they will give me a bs story that i can call them on. maybe i will sick the BAR on them if i cant settle it myself.

Mick Max

Hey... fishhouse..2k2wannabe
Would you girls just kiss and make-up???????
Several threads now are just so much
JerrySpringer.org
Joyful Christmas...a time for giving...Hellllloo!!

2k2kev

serenity now... serenity now...

I just get tired of people spouting "fact" when really they are guessing, or saying "the dealer can't do that" when in fact they can and do every day.

Mick Max

2K2wannabee,
I agree with 99% of what you say and about
75% of how you say it. But that is my 02 and I will send you a box of
IMHOs for Christmas. Fish is ok,trust me.

I also use Nis oil filters and save receipts. No excuses
if my motor grenades.

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

They can't legally deny you service unless they specifically prove that something you have done is the direct cause or directly led to the failure of the engine (or whatever part). They can say anything they want to scare you away, however...and this tactic usually works for them. Remember, the service department is only after your money...they don't actually care about you or your vehicle.

Know your legal rights as a consumer. Use this link; www.clarkhoward.com to ask their specific opinion on the matter, and they'll hook you up with all kinds of useful information and tactics to get the dealer to uphold it's legal duty...

BiggD23

This is exactly what I meant in my post above. Extremely well said Quicksilver.

SkoorbMax

Friend had an extended warranty on his taurus and when the engine died the dealer was VERY **** about proving that he'd had all the oil changes done.

I do my own as well and I was keeping the receipts until powertrain warranty ended. I still do, but I change much less frequently.

RichSpidizzy

I don't get why the dealers are so hessitant to perform warranty work? I know what your all gonna say: But that is incorrect

Just check out this post from Kev in the FAQ, they get paid the same amount of money whether it's warranty work or not. The only difference is WHO pays the dealer to perform the work

2k2kev

I'll start by saying "I'm not sure" but "I believe" they get incentives if they do not 'spend too much' on warranty work.

And/or, the time your car is in the shop is that much more time they aren't gouging someone else for oil changes and inspections marked-up 200%.

But those are only my guesses.

grey wolf2

Lota loose parts here. If you blow an engine and its not your fault, why would you want another one? You like to wait until it blows? You need another make of car. That's why warrantees are a lota crap. Why would I want the same part that broke before put in my car. Hit the dealer where it really counts. Buy a different car that doesn't blow engines.

CCS2k1Max

iTrader: (2)

Right.... lot of loose parts... Try unloading a car less the engine or tranny and see how much $$$ you get! Try getting a new engine or new tranny and see how much $$$ it'd cost out of pocket.

2kGLE

Ummmm...ok...What are you smoking and where can i get some?

Seriously tho, thanks for the help people. Ill go kick some saturn dealer *** in a day or two.

paralyse

At our shop, advisors and warranty admins get paid 6% on CP or customer pay repairs, 3% on warranty and 1% on internal (used/new car repairs). This means that yes there is an incentive for our advisors to sell service, and yes they do get paid more for CP, but it's easier to get warranty money -- would you rather get 3% of a 16 hour long block replacement at warranty labor rate or get 0% when you try to tell your ****ed-off customer they need a new engine at 40k miles and will be expected to pay for it? There are no bonuses of any sort for claiming less under warranty.

First off, the oil changes shouldnt be an issue unless there is proximate cause to suggest the engine failure is related to an oil supply issue. I have seen a few engines come in that, when the heads are pulled, are found to be coated in that thick black sludge, and the cylinders, valve stems/seats, and the like show obvious and blatant wear (ridging, grooving, particle marks, etc.) Oil starvation usually evidences itself in spun bearings, thrown rods, burned lifters or such.

Second, if you read your warranties, most warranties state that they can be voided if you don't keep up with your maintenance. However, the burden is on the dealer or shop to prove that you violated the terms of your warranty. Always keep receipts and records just in case. Most dealers store your service history on their databases or in files for 1-2 years (for us its 1.5 yrs for ADP records, 2 yrs for paper RO copies and 3 yrs for Chrysler VIP vin explosion histories)

Third, factory warranties are a lot more lenient about this than extended warranties are! Our extended warranty company often insists on sending a guy out to photograph engine failures before authorizing repairs. Chrysler fac warranty just replaces the damn engine no questions asked.

Had a Chrysler T&C come in, cust. complaint was low oil pressure light on intermittently. I test drove the vehicle to duplicate the customer complaint. on the drive, the light came on, and then the engine seized about 5 minutes later before i could get back to "home base". Teardown revealed a spun bearing and a dead oil pump that caused the problem. The engine was covered under warranty because the oil pump mechanically failed. This DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE HAD NOT had an oil change in over 1 YEAR and had put 7,000 miles on it since then!

BTW -- state inspections here (in tx) are state regulated rates -- if a dealer is charging you more than the $39.50 here they can get in DEEP trouble.

Ammi

iTrader: (26)

what if you do your own oil change? Save credit card statements?

2k2kev

yes........

Ammi

iTrader: (26)

it's not going to tell you what you bought from the autostore though. Dealership could say you bought bunch of car wash soap and wax or something.

2k2kev

then maybe you need to make a mechanic friend

I did my own oil changes but honda wanted receipts when I went to transfer the extended warranty, so I had a mechanic friend make them. He only did it because he knew I actually did the oil changes so there was no way he could get screwed... and a case of beer helped

infantsam

Warranty work labor hours are in a separate book then regular repairs from what my bro in law said. (Toyotas service writer)

They are lower because of the way they set up the repair estimating. Something about puting all the needed tools 'right there' when they do the warranty labor hours

RichSpidizzy

It's posts like this that make me love the ORG
Thanks for the info!