MY take on the Motor Trend "Radar-Detector Test&Buyer's Guide" winner(LONG!)
01-09-2004 | 03:26 PM
#1
MY take on the Motor Trend "Radar-Detector Test&Buyer's Guide" winner(LONG!)
http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...12_0402_radar/
As most of us know, Valentine One vs. Passport 8500 vs. whatever has had MANY threads here on Maxima.org. Sorry, but I need to add one more. Anyways, as most of us know by now, Motor Trend declared the Passport 8500 the winner over the V1 by a measly 0.1-point and of course Escortradar.com and Escortstore.com are claiming "Winner of the Motor Trend 2004 Detector Test".
I'm a DIE HARD fan of my V1, so I seriously looked into the article because before I had never believed the biased BS of radartest.com and lots of other clearly anti-Valentine reviews. I like MT since I believe they are pretty non-biased plus they used Speed Measurement Laboratories(www.speedlabs.com), so I thought well if they gave it the nod maybe it's time to dump the V1 and switch to the Passport 8500.
So, I look at how SML tested and finally rated the detectors. Upon reading, SML chose 10 tests and MT chose the "weighting" of each and added 3 subjective categories as below:
Objective(STR = Straight, OTH = Over The Hill):
Band Type/V1 score/E8500 score/Weight
1)X STR/5.00/5.00/5<~~~~~~Tie
2)X OTH/5.00/3.30/5<~~~~~~V1
3)K STR/10.00/9.50/10<~~~~~~V1
4)K OTH/10.00/9.60/10<~~~~~~V1
5)KA STR/10.00/10.00/10<~~~~~~Tie
6)KA OTH/10.00/10.00/10<~~~~~~Tie
7)Combined REAR/6.00/6.00/6<~~~~~~Tie
8)LASER/10.00/7.20/10<~~~~~~V1
9)Invisibility/10.00/9.50/10<~~~~~~V1
10)POP mode/3.00/6.00/6<~~~~~~Pass8500
Raw Score: V1=87.75, Pass8500= 85.85
Subjective:
11)Ergonomics/4.00/5.00/5<~~~~~~Pass8500
12)Features/4.75/4.75/5<~~~~~~Tie?!?!?!?
13)Value/7.00/9.00/10<~~~~~~Pass8500
TOTAL(100pts.): V1= 94.75, Pass8500=94.85
These results show the Pass8500 won by 0.1pt for the TOTAL(combined Objective and Subjective tests), however the V1 clearly won the objective, ie PERFORMANCE, category by ALMOST 2pts~! So, that means the Pass8500 surpassed the V1 in the SUBJECTIVE categories, which are Ergonomics, Features, and Value. Ok, I'm not sure about you however I myself would rather have a better PERFORMING radar detector then a smaller/lighter or cheaper(~$100) detector, but that's up to the buyer which varies more then the damn MT staff testers!
Ignoring the PERFORMANCE vs. subjective importance, I noticed an inconsistency with their ratings. According to MTs' statement, "In each category, the top-scoring unit gets the maximum number of points with the remaining units scored against the category winner on a percentage basis.". Ok, they followed this rule in every category EXCEPT the "Features" category, where they did NOT give anybody the "top-score". Instead, they gave BOTH the Pass8500 and the V1 4.75 out of 5 points. Now, I've only used the Pass8500 once, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that the Pass8500 has more "Features" then the V1 ESPECIALLY with the arrows and bogey prioritization. Either the Pass8500 gets the full 5.00 or the V1, but then again it's SUBJECTIVE and to me not all that big a deal, however I'd be willing to bet MT would give the additional 0.25 to the V1 making the final score V1=95.0, Pass8500=94.85. Small difference still, but 0.15pts. is more then the final 0.1pt difference MT's "TOTAL" differed by in the magazine and all the Escort "supporters" are jumping up and down about.
MT recommends the Pass8500 "a slight nod" over the V1 for its "$100 lower price" and "ability to add Passport's optional ZR3 laser-shifting technology", which is a $500 option for a grand total of $800 for the Pass8500+ZR3. Although the V1 clearly outperformed the Pass8500 in performance, ie OBJECTIVE category, the $100 premium IN THEIR OPINION for the V1 isn't worth the additional X, K, Ka, and Laser protection over the Passport 8500, however the Pass8500 w/ZR3 laser-shifting is worth the $400 premium for laser immunity. So, my long azz .02 would be that the radar detector that provides the BEST PROTECTION is dictated by price and it's up to you what your protection is worth, ie
1)Passport 8500 w/ZR3($800)
2)Valentine One($399)
3)Passport 8500($299)
...so all the Escort groupies need to actually READ the article, because that 0.1pt isn't valid and doesn't mean CRAAAAAAAAAAP. Finally, until I can afford to spend $800 to get the $500 ZR3 laser-shifting option, the V1 will be protecting my azz better then YOUR Passport 8500.
Anybody got the ZR3 option? Is there a way to make it work withOUT the Passport 8500?
As most of us know, Valentine One vs. Passport 8500 vs. whatever has had MANY threads here on Maxima.org. Sorry, but I need to add one more. Anyways, as most of us know by now, Motor Trend declared the Passport 8500 the winner over the V1 by a measly 0.1-point and of course Escortradar.com and Escortstore.com are claiming "Winner of the Motor Trend 2004 Detector Test".
I'm a DIE HARD fan of my V1, so I seriously looked into the article because before I had never believed the biased BS of radartest.com and lots of other clearly anti-Valentine reviews. I like MT since I believe they are pretty non-biased plus they used Speed Measurement Laboratories(www.speedlabs.com), so I thought well if they gave it the nod maybe it's time to dump the V1 and switch to the Passport 8500.
So, I look at how SML tested and finally rated the detectors. Upon reading, SML chose 10 tests and MT chose the "weighting" of each and added 3 subjective categories as below:
Objective(STR = Straight, OTH = Over The Hill):
Band Type/V1 score/E8500 score/Weight
1)X STR/5.00/5.00/5<~~~~~~Tie
2)X OTH/5.00/3.30/5<~~~~~~V1
3)K STR/10.00/9.50/10<~~~~~~V1
4)K OTH/10.00/9.60/10<~~~~~~V1
5)KA STR/10.00/10.00/10<~~~~~~Tie
6)KA OTH/10.00/10.00/10<~~~~~~Tie
7)Combined REAR/6.00/6.00/6<~~~~~~Tie
8)LASER/10.00/7.20/10<~~~~~~V1
9)Invisibility/10.00/9.50/10<~~~~~~V1
10)POP mode/3.00/6.00/6<~~~~~~Pass8500
Raw Score: V1=87.75, Pass8500= 85.85
Subjective:
11)Ergonomics/4.00/5.00/5<~~~~~~Pass8500
12)Features/4.75/4.75/5<~~~~~~Tie?!?!?!?
13)Value/7.00/9.00/10<~~~~~~Pass8500
TOTAL(100pts.): V1= 94.75, Pass8500=94.85
These results show the Pass8500 won by 0.1pt for the TOTAL(combined Objective and Subjective tests), however the V1 clearly won the objective, ie PERFORMANCE, category by ALMOST 2pts~! So, that means the Pass8500 surpassed the V1 in the SUBJECTIVE categories, which are Ergonomics, Features, and Value. Ok, I'm not sure about you however I myself would rather have a better PERFORMING radar detector then a smaller/lighter or cheaper(~$100) detector, but that's up to the buyer which varies more then the damn MT staff testers!
Ignoring the PERFORMANCE vs. subjective importance, I noticed an inconsistency with their ratings. According to MTs' statement, "In each category, the top-scoring unit gets the maximum number of points with the remaining units scored against the category winner on a percentage basis.". Ok, they followed this rule in every category EXCEPT the "Features" category, where they did NOT give anybody the "top-score". Instead, they gave BOTH the Pass8500 and the V1 4.75 out of 5 points. Now, I've only used the Pass8500 once, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that the Pass8500 has more "Features" then the V1 ESPECIALLY with the arrows and bogey prioritization. Either the Pass8500 gets the full 5.00 or the V1, but then again it's SUBJECTIVE and to me not all that big a deal, however I'd be willing to bet MT would give the additional 0.25 to the V1 making the final score V1=95.0, Pass8500=94.85. Small difference still, but 0.15pts. is more then the final 0.1pt difference MT's "TOTAL" differed by in the magazine and all the Escort "supporters" are jumping up and down about.
MT recommends the Pass8500 "a slight nod" over the V1 for its "$100 lower price" and "ability to add Passport's optional ZR3 laser-shifting technology", which is a $500 option for a grand total of $800 for the Pass8500+ZR3. Although the V1 clearly outperformed the Pass8500 in performance, ie OBJECTIVE category, the $100 premium IN THEIR OPINION for the V1 isn't worth the additional X, K, Ka, and Laser protection over the Passport 8500, however the Pass8500 w/ZR3 laser-shifting is worth the $400 premium for laser immunity. So, my long azz .02 would be that the radar detector that provides the BEST PROTECTION is dictated by price and it's up to you what your protection is worth, ie
1)Passport 8500 w/ZR3($800)
2)Valentine One($399)
3)Passport 8500($299)
...so all the Escort groupies need to actually READ the article, because that 0.1pt isn't valid and doesn't mean CRAAAAAAAAAAP. Finally, until I can afford to spend $800 to get the $500 ZR3 laser-shifting option, the V1 will be protecting my azz better then YOUR Passport 8500.
Anybody got the ZR3 option? Is there a way to make it work withOUT the Passport 8500?
01-09-2004 | 03:40 PM
#2
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 470
I agree...what a BS review by MT. I love my V1 and i would never trade it in for anything unless its proven to perform better. Dont know much about the ZR3 option but if you want laser protection get a jammer like this:
http://www.scorpionjammers.com/laserjammers.html
It costs less than the ZR3 option and can be used with a V1.
Might want to pick up one of these while your at it:
http://www.scorpionjammers.com/AntiPhotoRadar.html
I have one..its the ish.
http://www.scorpionjammers.com/laserjammers.html
It costs less than the ZR3 option and can be used with a V1.
Might want to pick up one of these while your at it:
http://www.scorpionjammers.com/AntiPhotoRadar.html
I have one..its the ish.
01-09-2004 | 03:57 PM
#6
IMO...no. I only use mine on the hwy.
It works in the city, but honestly I don't speed too much in city.
It works in the city, but honestly I don't speed too much in city.
Originally Posted by LithiuMax
If I don't regularly speed more than 5-10 mph over the limit on the freeway (freeway driving is maybe 15% of my total driving), and I want a radar detector mainly for the city, should I get one?
01-09-2004 | 04:00 PM
#7
Funny you should say that. I don't think anybody paid someone off, but the exact opposite.
According to MT:
According to MT:
Detectors for this test were bought anonymously at retail or direct from the manufacturers--no "ringers" allowed. All the manufacturers, with the exception of Valentine, agreed to foot the bill for the testing and evaluation.
Originally Posted by ChillWill2000
Thats BS. How do they tie for featurs when the V1 has arrows and the pass you have no idea where the radar is coming from.
sounds like passport is paying someone off.
sounds like passport is paying someone off.
01-09-2004 | 04:09 PM
#8
Sounds like the debate continues...personally I'd be torn between the two, not just b/c of features, but also pricing.
The V1 costs almost 2x more than the 8500 sold here: CLICK HERE
And then there's also the cordless Solo S2 option sold here: CLICK HERE
Then with either of these you'd have the option, like you said, of upgrading with the ZR3 unit later on if you want.
The V1 costs almost 2x more than the 8500 sold here: CLICK HERE
And then there's also the cordless Solo S2 option sold here: CLICK HERE
Then with either of these you'd have the option, like you said, of upgrading with the ZR3 unit later on if you want.
01-09-2004 | 04:17 PM
#9
Donating Maxima.org Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 734
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
Sounds like the debate continues...personally I'd be torn between the two, not just b/c of features, but also pricing.
The V1 costs almost 2x more than the 8500 sold here: CLICK HERE
And then there's also the cordless Solo S2 option sold here: CLICK HERE
Then with either of these you'd have the option, like you said, of upgrading with the ZR3 unit later on if you want.
The V1 costs almost 2x more than the 8500 sold here: CLICK HERE
And then there's also the cordless Solo S2 option sold here: CLICK HERE
Then with either of these you'd have the option, like you said, of upgrading with the ZR3 unit later on if you want.
Ive read that the cordless models are horrible by comparrison to corded models.
correct me if im wrong but I dont think V1 even has the upscale in cordless.
01-09-2004 | 04:22 PM
#11
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,836
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
Sounds like the debate continues...personally I'd be torn between the two, not just b/c of features, but also pricing.
The V1 costs almost 2x more than the 8500 sold here: CLICK HERE
The V1 costs almost 2x more than the 8500 sold here: CLICK HERE
01-09-2004 | 04:27 PM
#12
Originally Posted by charliekilo3
I've been using my V1 since 1994. It's been upgraded twice. It has saved me a ton of money by giving me early warnings for radar. I will continue using it until I know that something better performing comes out.
01-09-2004 | 04:27 PM
#13
Plugging your own ****.$264.99 is not enough cheaper for me to bother not having the piece of mind that it's not refurbished or something.
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
Sounds like the debate continues...personally I'd be torn between the two, not just b/c of features, but also pricing.
The V1 costs almost 2x more than the 8500 sold here: CLICK HERE
And then there's also the cordless Solo S2 option sold here: CLICK HERE
Then with either of these you'd have the option, like you said, of upgrading with the ZR3 unit later on if you want.
The V1 costs almost 2x more than the 8500 sold here: CLICK HERE
And then there's also the cordless Solo S2 option sold here: CLICK HERE
Then with either of these you'd have the option, like you said, of upgrading with the ZR3 unit later on if you want.
01-09-2004 | 04:30 PM
#14
Better against laser, which is VERY very rare in AZ, NV, and CA from my experience. I'd rather have the "protection" on the K and Ka ESPECIALLY for Over The Hill type situations.
Not to mention, I'd never give up the arrows. There has to be a way to add the ZR3 or like someone already suggested something similar.
Not to mention, I'd never give up the arrows. There has to be a way to add the ZR3 or like someone already suggested something similar.
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
But according to IceY2K1, there already is something better performing. That would be the Escort Passport 8500 with one of the ZR3 add-on. For those who can afford the latter combo, it would pay for itself.
01-09-2004 | 04:30 PM
#15
For the 3rd time, I don't know which one I would buy personally, mostly dependent on my budget at the time of purchase. Up until today I leaned towards the V1, but I have never heard anything bad about the 8500 either, and the option to upgrade the laser feature would be nice too...
Plugging your **** is about as as constantly arguing that the mod you spend $xxx on is the best....
Plugging your **** is about as
as constantly arguing that the mod you spend $xxx on is the best....
01-09-2004 | 04:32 PM
#16
No definitely -R
-R
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
For the 3rd time, I don't know which one I would buy personally, mostly dependent on my budget at the time of purchase.
Plugging your **** is about as as constantly arguing that the mod you spend $xxx on is the best....
Plugging your **** is about as
as constantly arguing that the mod you spend $xxx on is the best....
01-09-2004 | 04:32 PM
#17
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,836
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
Once again, I don't know which one I'd get for myself. But according to IceY2K1, there already is something better performing. That would be the Escort Passport 8500 with one of the ZR3 add-on. For those who can afford the latter combo, it would pay for itself.
01-09-2004 | 04:34 PM
#18
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
No definitely -R
-R
I do like the -R though...that actually made me lol...seriously
01-09-2004 | 04:38 PM
#19
Originally Posted by charliekilo3
Do you currently own a detector? It would take me a long time to recoup $800 that I don't have to spend right now. I currently have some protection.
Originally Posted by charliekilo3
I will continue using it until I know that something better performing comes out.
01-09-2004 | 04:42 PM
#21
Honestly, Ice, even if I wasn't selling an 8500 right now, I'd still feel the same way. I felt the same way before I had one for sale, and will probably still be just as unsure afterwards...
01-09-2004 | 04:42 PM
#22
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,836
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
While I feel the same way, I made my statement b/c earlier you didn't mention anything about price being an object:
Besides the 8500 with the ZR3 add-on, Escort also makes the SR7 and SRX for a considerable amount of cheese. So all I'm saying is that overall there are better options out there, although they are out of my price range, that's for sure...
Besides the 8500 with the ZR3 add-on, Escort also makes the SR7 and SRX for a considerable amount of cheese. So all I'm saying is that overall there are better options out there, although they are out of my price range, that's for sure...
01-09-2004 | 04:45 PM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have been detecting with my eyes for a while now. Works pretty well... *knocks on wood*
Ice, I think you may be right. I wanted a V1 really bad for a while, and still kinda want one, but I don't think that I can justify it if I am mostly going to be using it in the city, and if I don't speed much on the freeway.
Ice, I think you may be right. I wanted a V1 really bad for a while, and still kinda want one, but I don't think that I can justify it if I am mostly going to be using it in the city, and if I don't speed much on the freeway.
01-09-2004 | 04:45 PM
#24
Yeah, that's exactly my point of my original post that it's SUBJECTIVE, ie varies according to the person, so it's not something that can be easily quantified into some stupid number.
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
Honestly, Ice, even if I wasn't selling an 8500 right now, I'd still feel the same way. I felt the same way before I had one for sale, and will probably still be just as unsure afterwards...
01-09-2004 | 04:48 PM
#25
Originally Posted by charliekilo3
Isn't that price subject to go higher until bidding stops?
Originally Posted by charliekilo3
Do you currently use a detector? Money is not an object unless I'm in the market to buy one. I already have a great detector/locator so I did not mention price. Do you use a detector?
01-09-2004 | 04:50 PM
#26
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Yeah, that's exactly my point of my original post that it's SUBJECTIVE, ie varies according to the person, so it's not something that can be easily quantified into some stupid number.
...nothin' like a lil' afternoon debate to wake me up from my lunch coma...
01-09-2004 | 05:11 PM
#28
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,836
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
Not if you use "Buy it Now." Since Overnight shipping w/tracking & insurance is included in that price, my previous statement still stands...
I don't use one right now, although I am considering one for personal use. Until I can try the different models side-by-side in my car, on the roads I drive, in the same conditions, it's hard for me to decide based solely on all the conflicting reviews out there...
I don't use one right now, although I am considering one for personal use. Until I can try the different models side-by-side in my car, on the roads I drive, in the same conditions, it's hard for me to decide based solely on all the conflicting reviews out there...
01-09-2004 | 05:14 PM
#29
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,836
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
Not if you use "Buy it Now." Since Overnight shipping w/tracking & insurance is included in that price, my previous statement still stands...
01-09-2004 | 05:19 PM
#30
Originally Posted by charliekilo3
If you stand by your previous statement, the V1 is not twice as much. Make up your mind.
Remind me again why you're trying to argue w/me? Actually please don't...I think the big boys are all done...thanks for your participation though!
Originally Posted by charliekilo3
I'm just trying to figure out why you're selling detectors that you could be using. Or, maybe the ones you're selling aren't good enough for your use. Just wondering.
" Does anybody who ever sells stuff online once in awhile own one of everything they've ever sold? Just wondering.btw this is rhetorical
Now everyone back on topic!
01-09-2004 | 06:05 PM
#32
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,836
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
*sigh* At $265, that is nearly 1/2 of the cost of a V1 which is some $400 + shipping and/or taxes. (that statement) geez...
Remind me again why you're trying to argue w/me? Actually please don't...I think the big boys are all done...thanks for your participation though!
Although I appreciate the subtlety and tactfulness of your post (not), I have to ask: "Wha?" Does anybody who ever sells stuff online once in awhile own one of everything they've ever sold? Just wondering.
btw this is rhetorical
Now everyone back on topic!
Remind me again why you're trying to argue w/me? Actually please don't...I think the big boys are all done...thanks for your participation though!
Although I appreciate the subtlety and tactfulness of your post (not), I have to ask: "Wha?
" Does anybody who ever sells stuff online once in awhile own one of everything they've ever sold? Just wondering.btw this is rhetorical
Now everyone back on topic!
01-09-2004 | 06:15 PM
#33
Donating Maxima.org Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 188
I love my V1.. Wouldn't ever change.. From 16-20 I got 37 speeding tickets, 21-25 I have gotten zero. (No, I haven't slowed down... 
The V1 gives such early warning on the highway I sometimes get bored waiting to finally see the cop so I can pass and speed back up.
V1's laser to me works about as good as one can work for laser. The cops around here use it only sparingly, as certain neighborhood dept's have it. I used to have a jammer but never thought it worked well.. I tried 5 different detectors (incl. Passport) before finally ponying up the $349 to get a V1. I have not upgraded it yet, but it is working fine for me!!!
The V1 gives such early warning on the highway I sometimes get bored waiting to finally see the cop so I can pass and speed back up.
V1's laser to me works about as good as one can work for laser. The cops around here use it only sparingly, as certain neighborhood dept's have it. I used to have a jammer but never thought it worked well.. I tried 5 different detectors (incl. Passport) before finally ponying up the $349 to get a V1. I have not upgraded it yet, but it is working fine for me!!!
01-09-2004 | 06:22 PM
#34
Originally Posted by charliekilo3
Basically what you're saying w/o realizing it is that you are fullofsh!t. I was not arguing with you as far as I can tell. I just asked you some questions to see where you were coming from. Please get a clue about what you posted.
All my replies to you come with disclaimers since you can't seem to spot sarcasm or a joke, yet you still get offended? How about...back on topic? Thanks.
01-09-2004 | 06:24 PM
#35
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,836
Originally Posted by KCMichaelM
I love my V1.. Wouldn't ever change.. From 16-20 I got 37 speeding tickets, 21-25 I have gotten zero. (No, I haven't slowed down...
The V1 gives such early warning on the highway I sometimes get bored waiting to finally see the cop so I can pass and speed back up.
V1's laser to me works about as good as one can work for laser. The cops around here use it only sparingly, as certain neighborhood dept's have it. I used to have a jammer but never thought it worked well.. I tried 5 different detectors (incl. Passport) before finally ponying up the $349 to get a V1. I have not upgraded it yet, but it is working fine for me!!!
The V1 gives such early warning on the highway I sometimes get bored waiting to finally see the cop so I can pass and speed back up.
V1's laser to me works about as good as one can work for laser. The cops around here use it only sparingly, as certain neighborhood dept's have it. I used to have a jammer but never thought it worked well.. I tried 5 different detectors (incl. Passport) before finally ponying up the $349 to get a V1. I have not upgraded it yet, but it is working fine for me!!!
That's what I like about the V1. Early warnings plus the ability to be upgraded. You have a lot of miles on your car so I know you really do some driving. My 95 KingCab only has 134k miles on it and I drive the heck out of it.
01-09-2004 | 06:26 PM
#36
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,836
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
Since it's already been broughten, here: A V1 doesn't change the fact that your car is still Tungsten blue.
All my replies to you come with disclaimers since you can't seem to spot sarcasm or a joke, yet you still get offended? How about...back on topic? Thanks.
All my replies to you come with disclaimers since you can't seem to spot sarcasm or a joke, yet you still get offended? How about...back on topic? Thanks.
01-09-2004 | 08:05 PM
#38
All I have to say , is that my 8500 goes above and beyond, what I expected it could do. I cant imagine the V1 being worth the extra $$ . But I wouldnt discourage someone from buying it, if they felt the need to spend the extra $$ , for peace of mind. Like I said, I have even driven to Las Vegas, doing a steady 120 mph, and was able to flag an HP with Laser, from enough of a distance, that allowed me to slow down. By the time he hit my car with the laser, I was doing 70 mph......just my .02 cents
01-09-2004 | 08:41 PM
#39
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 234
Performance aside, the V1 is one ugly a$$ detector. I wouldn't take 200 bux from anyonee trying to get that fugly thing in my dash... Passport provides excellent protection and looks slick in my dash, esp with it's voltage display...
(this is just my opinion, anyone wanna hate go ahead, aint gonna do u no good)
(this is just my opinion, anyone wanna hate go ahead, aint gonna do u no good)