calucyk

Anyone that owns a 03 Maxima I need your help and feedback. Since winter set in, temperatures have dropped below freezing (though, not too often as I live in Texas), I have experienced the following symptom. After the vehicle has cold soaked (most often after sitting over night), at start up, the engine makes a rattle noise. It sort of sounds like the valve train is starved of oil. Well, I searched the web for TSB’s and found one matching my exact problem, but it only applies to 2002 Maxima’s (TSB 03-060 - Engine - Cold Start Rattling Noise). It states in the TSB that the engine will make a rattle noise for roughly 1 second at start up. Valve sprockets are stated as the cause of this noise. Anyway, my symptoms are exactly the same as stated in the TSB, so I contacted my dealership and had an advisor listen to the vehicle. Sure enough, the advisor heard the sound, read the TSB and agreed it was the same issue. He was a little concerned that the TSB was for a 2002 Maxima, but agreed to fix the car per the TSB anyway.

Fast forward, I just got off the phone with my service advisor. After installing the new parts, the car is still making the same noise. He told me he had 3 technicians look at my car and that the noise is common to all 2003 Maxima’s. My question (2003 Maxima owners), does your car exhibit a rattle noise at startup when the engine is cold soaked? For the problem to be similar to mine, the outside temperature must be below freezing. Your feedback would be greatly appreciated.

I told the advisor I was not happy with that answer and that I would ask around to determine whether it was “normal”. I will likely pressure them into showing me other 03 Maxima’s that exhibit this condition (but will be hard since Nissan no longer makes 5th generation Maxima’s). Furthermore, they are sort of at a disadvantage, as they agreed the car had a problem and attempted to fix it.

Anyway, if 03 Max owners could do the following and report back to this forum, that would be great!
1. Let your car sit over night – temperature must be at or below freezing
2. At start up, listen for an engine rattle. It won’t be hard to miss, as the noise is loud enough that you will hear it in the passenger compartment.
3. Report back to this forum your findings.

Thanks!

s_hinerman

iTrader: (4)

Mine does it but only on the mornings that it is below 0.

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

If it's a minor rattle that's probably just the timing chain. I've had it happen to me quite a lot when i first got my car (a 2002) but eventually went away.

These days, i get it every now and then - but definitely not as frequent as before.

Y2KSilvahSE

My 00 used to do that, but went away like others have stated. I don't know if switching to 5w-30 weight oil made the difference or not (instead of 10w-30), but 5w-30 weight's all I use now...especially in the wintertime. Up here in Mass. we've had a few below zero mornings lately, and I have no rattling at all upon initial cold start.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

What oil weight are you running? Dino or synthetic?

I'd switch to a 0W synthetic for winters.

MaximaPolak

iTrader: (9)

I never heard it. Maybe it's time to listen!

calucyk

IceY2K1, I use dino oil, but I'm not sure what weight. I guess whatever the owners manual calls out, as I take it to the dealership for oil changes. Btw, the car has 5K miles.

Thanks,

TitaniuMax03

iTrader: (1)

happens to me as well..mostly in the morning, weather here is around 20-30 degrees...

BrandonSE

iTrader: (1)

I know EXACTLY what your talking about... indeed its not the timing chain, its the stater... There used to be a thread that had the different sounds between the rattle of the timing chain and the starter. Basically it is your starting needing to be regreased. There is a write up on the how-to section. They talk about getting grease for like 8 dollars. Check it out, i guarantee this will solve the problem.

ajahearn

iTrader: (3)

I have this occasional rattle noise. I had assumed it was the starter TSB. It doesn't get much colder than occasionally freezing where I live so I wasn't going to bother. I'll have to check the starter issue though.

2002 Maxima SE

iTrader: (3)

There is a timing chain sprocket TSB. Not sure if it is worth letting the Nissan tech open up your engine to fix it though.

calucyk

According to this write up, my issue is different. This person describes the sound as a "vvvveeeh". My sound is more like when the valve train is starved of oil. Furthermore, it's coming from the top end of the engine, not down where the starter is located.

http://www.motorvate.ca/mvp.php/516

Thanks,

adamschwartz

mine does when it is 20 or below

jbengio

that's funny, my max has this rattling sound whenever i turn the heat on, but after about 10 minutes, the rattling goes away. i don't think it's the starter. i was told at courtesy that it might be the bearings for the heater. what do yo think?

FanaticMadMax

Mine make that noise, even though it's a 2k1. I think it's normal in freezing temp when you just starting up the car. I don't think we should be alarmed by it, but it does goes away after warming up. If it does that after warm up then there is something we should be alarmed about.

bixmaxxx

Mine did this last night for the first time. It was 0 degrees out and the sound last for maybe 1/4 second. Sounded like a grinding sound but quickly went away as the car turned over. After I got home(after driving 40 miles), I turned the car off and started it back up to see if it was the starter. No noise was made so it's definitely a temperature-related issue. I started the car today in 20 degree weather and no sound was made.

My windshield washer fluid also wouldn't spray last night because of the temperature. They were clear of ice. Does windshield washer fluid freeze in 0 degree weather?

jbengio

it depends on the washer fluid. some are made to withstand freezing temperatures, others aren't. try using rainx all temperature fluid. it works for me.

calucyk

Just like many already know, Nissan consumer affairs sucks! Regarding this cold engine rattle, I've worked with consumer affairs and my local service center and basically got no where. I will say this, consumer affairs is like the big brother in it to protect Nissan legally, not to help the customer. I realize each service center is different, but mine at least tried to fix the problem, but to no avail and in the end, caulked it up as "normal". I wish there were a way to guage or rate a manufacturers customer service before buying a new car. I mean really get a feeling for how they treat their customers. I believe this may have changed my car choice (although, that VQ is intoxicating).

Anyway, here is what the service center ultimately said (after an attempt was made to correct the problem):

"Checked out for abnormal engine rattling noise on initial start up after over night cold soak of engine. Compared to similar model (04 Altima) and same noise heard for split second. Noise is normal characteristic on this engine until full oil pressure reaches upper end of engine. No work done."

Here is a copy of the last email I sent to customer affairs:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Joseph, Okay, as you requested, I took my car to Bankston Nissan for repair. They started the car this morning and heard the noise. Bankston Nissan then started a 04 Altima for comparison and it made the same noise. Steve Conway called me and told me what they did and then concluded the noise was normal as all 3.5 make this noise. I’m sorry, I don’t buy this. I know of several other Maxima’s (not Altima’s) that don’t make this noise. Furthermore, a lady that works in a department next to mine has a 03 Z350 and it does not make this noise. I explained to her the problem with my car and asked her whether her car made this noise. She said, “Absolutely not.”

Joe, I’m going to be blunt. I’ve done everything Nissan has asked me to do. I have been lied to (you told me you had a conference call with Tech support and then in the very same conversation, you told me you cannot call Tech support because their department and your department are not allowed to converse. Furthermore, why did it take one week to determine this??), I’ve been screwed around (an attempt to fix my car was completed and then today, I was told it was “normal” – why the first attempt to fix the problem then??) and now I’m being hung out to dry. I am the customer, you know, a person that bought a Nissan product! I demand a solution for this car problem. I am sick and tired of this; enough of being the “screwed” around consumer. I should have listened to people before I purchased a Nissan product, “Nissan’s customer service sucks!” I guess the saying is true, “Hind sight is 20/20 vision.” Get who ever and what ever on this right now, because if Nissan does not get their utmost attention on this today, I will begin legal actions. Furthermore, I demand a rental while Nissan solves this problem because as of right now, I’m inconvenienced (ride my bike to and from work – 17 mile ride). This email is time sensitive, as I expect a response by 5:00 PM today. Do not play the “waiting” or “did not see that email” games.

Btw, here is video of the problem (turn your volume up). You can contact Bankston for more information.

http://home.comcast.net/~calucyk/vids.htm

I’m sure Ward’s “top ten engine” editor would love to know more about this “common” problem. Heck, I have video footage, dealer confirmation and a pile of emails I can send them. Like I said, I expect something by 5:00 PM today or I start fighting back, legally."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For all the folks that have the same problem with their car as me, the next time you visit your service center, report it. Nissan can not ignore this indefinately! Sorry for the long "rant" email, but I'm frustrated and tired of lack of customer service!

calucyk

http://waw.wardsauto.com/

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I'm sure you have received a ton of email regarding the article "Ward's 10 Best Engines". I will say, nice job! It seems like a daunting task to select so few from so many. I'm very interested to know what the scoring criteria was for each engine. I own a 2003 Nissan Maxima, which is powered by the VQ3.5. It is an amazingly smooth and torquey engine, but did you know there are inherit design flaws with this motor. I've owned my Maxima for about 1 year and each time I start the engine when cold (outside temperature of 40 degrees and below), I'm greeted with this awful sound (you know, the sound an engine makes when the valve train is starved of oil). A visit to my local Nissan service center confirmed the problem as "normal" (see attachment), "Noise is normal characteristic on this engine". I would like to know if you and/or your peers heard this noise during testing. If so, how did it affect the rating of this motor? If not, would you consider this fact during next years contest or a follow up article?

As excited as I am to own one of Ward's elected 10 best engines, I feel the public should also know the facts and these are the facts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Stay tuned for more updates or feel free to update this thread. Btw, "Thread Subscription" works great!!

2002 Maxima SE

iTrader: (3)

Did the dealer put on the new sprocket?

calucyk

Yes, the dealer put on the new sprockets and then removed them. Unfortunately the new sprockets did not solve the problem...

03BlkSETE

iTrader: (3)

My car makes the noise you describe on very cold days. The noise may be "normal" but that doesn't mean it ok.

calucyk

I agree. It goes to show, Nissan is not customer focused because if they were, they would correct this problem and then issue a TSB and be done with it. I mean really, how much does Nissan think consumers will take before they are hacked off enough and not buy a Nissan product? This sort of culture does not affect a company over night, but it does in the long run. I'm sure Nissan ran the numbers... They likely found that it affects the bottom line less when problems are ignored than to fix them. Sad, but likely true.

Todds_max

My 03 makes the noise as well. More often when the temp is below 40 or the car has been sitting all weekend. It will make this noise Monday morning inside my 50-55 degree garage. BMW's 2.8 in-line six from the late 90's with VANOS did the exact same thing (I had a 97 328is). A REDESIGNED sprocket setup cured these engines noises. Actually, I think it was just a change to one of the washers in this assembly. If you imagine that oil pressure is what controls the adjustment (timing) within this assembly, it's easy to see how delayed oil delivery might make things noisy. I don't care about the noise, but is there any wear occuring while this rattling is going on? It sounds like it, but only time will tell. My symptoms don't seem to be progressing.... anyone else?

6spmax

First off, my '03 doesn't and has never made that noise even in below zero degree weather, so that isn't normal operation in my eyes.

However I don't see what emailing Wards is going to do. They'd have to contradict years of finding the VQ one of the best engines. Granted you definitely have a problem there but I doubt they're going to come out at next year's awards and say "We'd like to retract our designating the VQ one of the best engines for the last ten years on the account of some intermittent noises on startup in cold weather". They've awarded the BMW M3 motor as one of the 10 best and that motor is known to have blown up(figuratively speaking) on several occassions.

I'm not flaming your idea, I just think you should find a media or regulatory force with no vested interest in the VQ.

calucyk

6spmax - re: Ward's; point taken and thanks.

What's the build date of your car? Mine was 12/02. What type of oil do you use; dyno or syn?

6spmax

Build date on mine is 5/02. I get the oil changed every 3,000 miles at the dealer and at $24.95, I'd be surprised if it wasn't dino. My car has 15,500 miles on it and is not garaged so it was in below freezing weather for at least a month straight(and much of that below 20 degrees) and has never made any strange noise on startup. There is no doubt in my ears that something is wrong with your car.

calucyk

If your car was built on 05/02, does that not make it a 2002 year model? If so, there was a revision made to the VTC sprocket to correct the cold engine rattle. The TSB for this was NTB03060.

I have 5,600 miles on my car and change the oil every 3 months or 3,000 miles, which every comes first. I pay about the same, so like you, it's likely dyno oil.

Thanks for the information! Tony

kenny

My 03 GLE (also sheer silver) was probably built in July 02 (I bought it in Sep 02). I haven't noticed the strange noise you referred to even though this winter has been quite severe with temps in the teens or single digits for more than 2 weeks in Jan. I will pay more attention when I start my car tomorrow (overnight temp will be in the 20s) but my car is always garaged (unheated).

Like you, I also change oil according to schedule and I went to the dealer both times (at 2500 and 6000 miles) and I now have 6700 miles.

6spmax

Many new models are delivered well before the end of the year-an 01 'any brand' normally starts delivering around September of 00-as an example. Nissan has been delivering some of their models even earlier. My 02 showed up on the lot about 7/02 so it was earlier. The sticker and vin confirm it as an 03, not to mention the pedal stop recall for 02s was already built into my brand new car, so it's definitely an 03-albeit probably one of the first to be built.