Is this a record? haha... step inside please..
05-25-2004, 01:45 PM
#1
Is this a record? haha... step inside please..
A few of you know that I had recently disovered that my VIAS was malfunctioning through a long process. This is the link describing my problem...http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=312743
Well, SR20DEN and I got together yesterday to figure this thing out. All I can say is that he is the man...
Basically, we both knew that the VIAS passed the visual test of revving the engine past 5k and watching the L arm activate. So SR started disconnecting the assembly and it became apparent that it was broken internally. SR can describe the malfunction much better than I can so I'll let him do that later. Long story short, he removed the "power rod" WITHOUT taking off the intake manifold. He then did some cleanup, as there were some metal shavings from the malfunction lurking around in the manifold, and buttoned everything back together leaving out the power rod. Meaning that there was nothing to plug the short runners...
So SR then told me to take it for a spin... Wow. I can't even begin to describe the feeling of my max past 5k rpms. It's absolutly beautiful. I did feel like I lost some torque,though I didn't find out anything for sure until today...dyno time
Ok, here's the point of the title of this post. Keep in mind that it was 96 degrees with high humidity at the dyno:
whp: 202.70 torque: 185.34
SAE corrected
I dunno if this is a record or not for an all motor 3.0 but I like it. I don't even have headers yet...
Needless to say I did lose some torque and nothing was real exciting until 5k rpms, but on the track, I'd try to stay in high rpms.
Before anyone throws a fit, I have e-mailed SR the dyno's, before and after, and he will be posting them later. We also have a few ideas to get the hp # up even further, but that's later.
So anyone who thinks that their VIAS is not working, The visual test means nothing. The design is actually very poor as far as durability.
P.S. Has anyone in a 3.0 got higher #'s, all motor?
Well, SR20DEN and I got together yesterday to figure this thing out. All I can say is that he is the man...
Basically, we both knew that the VIAS passed the visual test of revving the engine past 5k and watching the L arm activate. So SR started disconnecting the assembly and it became apparent that it was broken internally. SR can describe the malfunction much better than I can so I'll let him do that later. Long story short, he removed the "power rod" WITHOUT taking off the intake manifold. He then did some cleanup, as there were some metal shavings from the malfunction lurking around in the manifold, and buttoned everything back together leaving out the power rod. Meaning that there was nothing to plug the short runners...
So SR then told me to take it for a spin... Wow. I can't even begin to describe the feeling of my max past 5k rpms. It's absolutly beautiful. I did feel like I lost some torque,though I didn't find out anything for sure until today...dyno time
Ok, here's the point of the title of this post. Keep in mind that it was 96 degrees with high humidity at the dyno:
whp: 202.70 torque: 185.34
SAE correctedI dunno if this is a record or not for an all motor 3.0 but I like it. I don't even have headers yet...
Needless to say I did lose some torque and nothing was real exciting until 5k rpms, but on the track, I'd try to stay in high rpms.
Before anyone throws a fit, I have e-mailed SR the dyno's, before and after, and he will be posting them later. We also have a few ideas to get the hp # up even further, but that's later.
So anyone who thinks that their VIAS is not working, The visual test means nothing. The design is actually very poor as far as durability.
P.S. Has anyone in a 3.0 got higher #'s, all motor?
05-25-2004, 01:53 PM
#3
hehehehe, you've discovered the VI trick 
When I put a auto ecu in Red92MaxSE's 5spd he said he thought there was more power (auto ecu for a VE will not operate the VI). I was glad to hear him say that because he felt it on his own and wasn't trying to 'look' for power gains, if that makes sense.
I just put mine on a switch, VI open (short runners runners), closed (long runners), and stock (ecu controlled).
When I put a auto ecu in Red92MaxSE's 5spd he said he thought there was more power (auto ecu for a VE will not operate the VI). I was glad to hear him say that because he felt it on his own and wasn't trying to 'look' for power gains, if that makes sense.
I just put mine on a switch, VI open (short runners runners), closed (long runners), and stock (ecu controlled).
05-25-2004, 02:11 PM
#7
Maxima Pilot
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Posts: 1,467
Does this mean that physically removing the 'power valve' will actually increase HP substantially versus the power valve there and working designed?
In other words, having both runners open without the restriction from the power valve proper will get the best overall HP??
In other words, having both runners open without the restriction from the power valve proper will get the best overall HP??
05-25-2004, 02:15 PM
#9
Yes, even when open the power valve is still blocking airflow into/out of the secondary chamber, hence my idea to "shave" it. However, SR has come up with a much better approach, at least for track use.
Originally Posted by Galo
Does this mean that physically removing the 'power valve' will actually increase HP substantially versus the power valve there and working designed?
In other words, having both runners open without the restriction from the power valve proper will get the best overall HP??
In other words, having both runners open without the restriction from the power valve proper will get the best overall HP??
05-25-2004, 02:21 PM
#11
[edit by IceY2K1]
Removing the power valve is a PITA and I can't recommend it to everyone. There is more work than just removing 4 phillips head screws.
[/edit by IceY2K1]
Here on the chart, run # 001 shows a faulty VIAS and run #004 shows the results with the power valve removed.
Now all we need to do is remove his restricter plate, do the TB coolant bypass, add cattman headers, get a TS ECU with a 7200+ rev limit and I will do more work on his manifold. I don't see any reason why we can't get 220+ fwhp out of this engine.
Oh yeah, he still has the original spark plugs and coils.
It's tuneup time.
Removing the power valve is a PITA and I can't recommend it to everyone. There is more work than just removing 4 phillips head screws.
[/edit by IceY2K1]
Here on the chart, run # 001 shows a faulty VIAS and run #004 shows the results with the power valve removed.
Now all we need to do is remove his restricter plate, do the TB coolant bypass, add cattman headers, get a TS ECU with a 7200+ rev limit and I will do more work on his manifold. I don't see any reason why we can't get 220+ fwhp out of this engine.
Oh yeah, he still has the original spark plugs and coils.
It's tuneup time.
05-25-2004, 02:28 PM
#16
[edit]
Corrected by SR~!
[/edit]
Corrected by SR~!
[/edit]
Originally Posted by SR20DEN
Removing the power valve is a PITA and I can't recommend it to everyone. There is more work than just removing 4 phillips head screws.
05-25-2004, 02:32 PM
#20
Guys...guys...you SACRIFICE torque/hp below 5000rpm, but gain above it. LOOK at the RED lines before 5000rpm to see the LOSS.
This is a mod you probably don't want ALL the time, ie out on the street unless you plan on staying ABOVE 5000rpm.
This is a mod you probably don't want ALL the time, ie out on the street unless you plan on staying ABOVE 5000rpm.
05-25-2004, 02:32 PM
#21
Originally Posted by jessemcd
This sounds super cool! Are there any drawbacks, or will it be damaging to the car?
05-25-2004, 02:39 PM
#23
Looks like 10-15whp and 20+wtq in some spots.
You're right....not a big deal at the track, but on the street you're feeling that right?
You're right....not a big deal at the track, but on the street you're feeling that right?
Originally Posted by mad2kmax
Only downside that I can see is the lost of lowend torque and a little hp. But that shouldn't matter much at the track.
05-25-2004, 02:44 PM
#25
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Looks like 10-15whp and 20+wtq in some spots.
You're right....not a big deal at the track, but on the street you're feeling that right?
You're right....not a big deal at the track, but on the street you're feeling that right?
05-25-2004, 02:47 PM
#26
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Looks like 10-15whp and 20+wtq in some spots.
You're right....not a big deal at the track, but on the street you're feeling that right?
You're right....not a big deal at the track, but on the street you're feeling that right?
That was a long time ago, I forget how the top-end felt...
So what can occur which causes the VIAS to not work, despite the fact that the power valve is still opening? Looking at my VIAS, I don't see how the power valve can open/close WITHOUT the butterfly valves turning... unless the valves aren't linked together properly along the center rod?
05-25-2004, 02:47 PM
#27
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
You need to stop misleading people. It isn't going to be by any means 'easy' for most of the people here. There are some serious issues that have to be considered when doing surgury on that plastic manifold. I am not going to be responsible for telling people to do something they shouldn't be doing.
But if you insist that it is EASY then YOU go take the power valve out of YOUR car right NOW without removing the manifold.
05-25-2004, 02:47 PM
#28
You guys ROCK~!
Originally Posted by mad2kmax
I do feel it on the street. It used to be a torque monster (198 ) but now it's exactly opposite. I haven't made up my mind yet if I want to keep it this way, but it will probably stay this way until SR and I get the most out of this motor...
05-25-2004, 02:49 PM
#29
I changed that post...I see what the problem is now.
Originally Posted by SR20DEN
You need to stop misleading people. It isn't going to be by any means 'easy' for most of the people here. There are some serious issues that have to be considered when doing surgury on that plastic manifold. I am not going to be responsible for telling people to do something they shouldn't be doing.
But if you insist that it is EASY then YOU go take the power valve out of YOUR car right NOW without removing the manifold.
But if you insist that it is EASY then YOU go take the power valve out of YOUR car right NOW without removing the manifold.
05-25-2004, 02:50 PM
#30
Originally Posted by spirilis
If this is what I think it was, I tried this using my vacuum pump on the VIAS fresh air port w/ VIAS control solenoid disconnected... I wasn't too impressed with the lack of torque
That was a long time ago, I forget how the top-end felt...
So what can occur which causes the VIAS to not work, despite the fact that the power valve is still opening? Looking at my VIAS, I don't see how the power valve can open/close WITHOUT the butterfly valves turning... unless the valves aren't linked together properly along the center rod?
That was a long time ago, I forget how the top-end felt...
So what can occur which causes the VIAS to not work, despite the fact that the power valve is still opening? Looking at my VIAS, I don't see how the power valve can open/close WITHOUT the butterfly valves turning... unless the valves aren't linked together properly along the center rod?
And this isn't the same thing as disconnecting the power valve. We're talking about actually removing it altogether to make even more top end power.
05-25-2004, 02:51 PM
#31
Originally Posted by spirilis
If this is what I think it was, I tried this using my vacuum pump on the VIAS fresh air port w/ VIAS control solenoid disconnected... I wasn't too impressed with the lack of torque
That was a long time ago, I forget how the top-end felt...
So what can occur which causes the VIAS to not work, despite the fact that the power valve is still opening? Looking at my VIAS, I don't see how the power valve can open/close WITHOUT the butterfly valves turning... unless the valves aren't linked together properly along the center rod?
That was a long time ago, I forget how the top-end felt...
So what can occur which causes the VIAS to not work, despite the fact that the power valve is still opening? Looking at my VIAS, I don't see how the power valve can open/close WITHOUT the butterfly valves turning... unless the valves aren't linked together properly along the center rod?
You are right. Right inside of the manifold the rod had snapped and was no longer moving with the valve arm. In fact, it was carving little metal shavings out of the rod every time it activated... no good
05-25-2004, 02:52 PM
#32
Damn slow response.
Originally Posted by spirilis
So what can occur which causes the VIAS to not work, despite the fact that the power valve is still opening? Looking at my VIAS, I don't see how the power valve can open/close WITHOUT the butterfly valves turning... unless the valves aren't linked together properly along the center rod?
05-25-2004, 02:54 PM
#33
hmm.. interesting mod. As for higher 3.0 numbers, irvine78 put down 204hp and 201ft-lbs all motor on the stillen dyno which is known to produce low numbers.
this is all with the VIAS still working and 100k miles on the engine
this is all with the VIAS still working and 100k miles on the engine
05-25-2004, 02:55 PM
#35
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
You guys ROCK~!
Now we need you to hurry things up with technosquare so I can raise the rev limiter
05-25-2004, 02:56 PM
#36
Originally Posted by SR20DEN
The axle that connects the power valve to the diaphram breaks apart. So on the outside it appears to function normally, but inside the power valve isn't rotating. Instead it's just grinding metal and making a nice metal dust pile inside your intake manifold.
And this isn't the same thing as disconnecting the power valve. We're talking about actually removing it altogether to make even more top end power.
And this isn't the same thing as disconnecting the power valve. We're talking about actually removing it altogether to make even more top end power.
Speaking of which, I guess the only option for those who have broken VIAS rods is to remove it or buy a whole new manifold?
05-25-2004, 02:57 PM
#37
Originally Posted by Larrio
hmm.. interesting mod. As for higher 3.0 numbers, irvine78 put down 204hp and 201ft-lbs all motor on the stillen dyno which is known to produce low numbers.
this is all with the VIAS still working and 100k miles on the engine
this is all with the VIAS still working and 100k miles on the engine
Well thats why we're here. We want to get some more feedback from others as to what they have made. However when these other numbers arrive we need to see a mod list for each vehicle. That includes you Nathan.
05-25-2004, 02:58 PM
#38
There's no such thing as hurrying up TS...LOL!
I'm working on them though. Issues including NOW I think a broken VIAS keeping getting in the way.
I'm working on them though. Issues including NOW I think a broken VIAS keeping getting in the way.
Originally Posted by mad2kmax
Thanks, although it might be a slow process as funds are a little low...
Now we need you to hurry things up with technosquare so I can raise the rev limiter
Now we need you to hurry things up with technosquare so I can raise the rev limiter
05-25-2004, 02:58 PM
#39
Originally Posted by Larrio
hmm.. interesting mod. As for higher 3.0 numbers, irvine78 put down 204hp and 201ft-lbs all motor on the stillen dyno which is known to produce low numbers.
this is all with the VIAS still working and 100k miles on the engine
this is all with the VIAS still working and 100k miles on the engine
05-25-2004, 03:01 PM
#40
Originally Posted by SR20DEN
Well thats why we're here. We want to get some more feedback from others as to what they have made. However when these other numbers arrive we need to see a mod list for each vehicle. That includes you Nathan.
Place Racing CAI, Cattman Y-pipe, random tech high flow cat, Cattman full cat-back exhaust... that's it as far as performance