Y2KXCLAN

I know there are a lot of mod happy people on the ORG...
But has anyone tried cutting a hole in the hood of their maxima and Added Ram Air Induction throough a hood scoop to see if it helps with horse power?

Yeah I know it sounds kinda odd...but surely somebody has tried it?
I always here debates as to wether a intake helps or not on the 5th gen max's

theMax

Ram air is a gimick, as the ram air affect does not start working until 150MPH.

A hole in the hood would give you good flow but there is miminal HP gain. Any cold air intake combined with a full exhaust for the best gains.

02icarus

mind elaborating this?

Y2KXCLAN

well my main concern was of course more airflow.....but also I am concerned about the rain being sucked into the car from injen etc......My friend siezed a motor when i was in high school from this.....but i assume i would possibly get the same thing with a ram air if it werent designed properly?

bigdo26

iTrader: (3)

The phrase "ram air" indicates pressurized air due to high velocites of air entering the engine. WHile there will be minimal amounts of pressurization at low speeds (65 mph) noticable gains will not come until much higher rates of speed are attained. Also, the typical thought of "i'll put a big scoop in front of the car that leads into some piping for 'ram air' pressurization of air" is incorrect. Picture driving at 70, holding funnel (having a brain cramp, whatever the thing you use to pour oil into the car... funnel the right word?). Anyways, the large opening is facing into the wind, and coming out the other end, the small end, is the same amount of air (ideally) that entered the big end. Due to the Bernoulli principle, fluids at high rates of speed have lower pressures than fluids of lower speeds, hence part of the reason airplanes can fly. This is exactly what many create on their cars, a large scoop that will "scoop more air into the engine at higher pressure and make a 'ram air'". Instead, if you want pressurized air, you'll need to do just the opposite, have a small opening for the air to enter that increases in size, therefore increasing the pressure of the air. In conclusion, all this is still quite ineffective at relatively low speeds. PLanes use ram air to increase power, however they travel at speeds way over 100 mph. For our cars, the only gains we'd see from a "ram air" setup are from increased flow of cooler outside air. Hope this clears up some answers for anyone questioning ram air. I'll be happy to elaborate some more if anyone has further questions.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

"ram air" is about as effective as the "tornado"

bigdo26

iTrader: (3)

at least the "ram" part is. I'd take a nice CAI over tornado any day, but you got your point across. Ram air doesnt make hp, just like tornado

scopium

the way our front ends are built.. makes it virtually impossible to get a ram air effect.. since air hits the car it only travels about almost halfway on the hood and lifts and hits the windshield and travels from there..

plus .. ram air wont give you much performance anyways except circulate more air in the engine bay..

the intake can only suck in so much air..

KLOOGY

iTrader: (12)

I had a ws6 ram air T/A, and it doesnt take hitting 150 mph to feel the effect. I will say that its not as big a deal, as some people might make it seem. It does let the car breath easier, but its not going to give you 30-40 hp, like some people like to think.

Y2KXCLAN

Yeah I have had experience with ram air on a firebird i had previous to the max. and yeah it was affective. but the front of the firebird is designed differently and the scoops are more toward the fron of the car....and the cars aerodynaimcs were rather good

SoonerFan

iTrader: (5)

ram air scoop is for looks only.
and on a 4 door sedan (family car) it would look ricey

theMax

Thanks, couldn't have said it better. The "ram air" on the firebird is not ram air. Its just a real good way to get cold air directly into the engine. The only way to get real "ram air" in our cars is with some kind of turbo/supercharger to increase the pressure.

If you want this type of setup, I have seen some use the fog light hole and run a tube up from there.

As for water, I have the PR cai and I now have rust in the lower tube. I don't think it made it past the MAF, so now I have a short intake.

If we could design the perfect air intake it would offer minimal gains over the one currently on the market, especially with the same size throttle body and intake manifold. You are not going to force/ram/pressurize air into the intake, so the best you can do is to eliminate any restrictions.

KLOOGY

iTrader: (12)

Really? I bet you if I raced you in my WS6 , I would rip you a hole so big, you would have to hire a crew of 20 guys to plaster it closed...

cobymoby

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, a little off topic but how long have you been running the PR intake for? And where do you live (ie what kind of weather do you see?).

Regards,
Bryan

theMax

No need to get mad, lots of people fall for the ram air trick!

I WOULD BET that if you ran your WS6 and then ran it again with out the ram air (remove the hood maybe?) that the times would not vary significantly, proving that ram air is really not helping you.

As for the CAI I live in OH where we do have lots of rain and snow. I didn't drive through big puddles but if you look in the fender where the filter sits, dirt and water get in there and the filter sucked some of the moisture in. I've had it for a few years running the full thing for the first year.

wade2ksleeper

kloogy, yes you prolly would beat him, but you are also runnin on a couple extra cylinders also,

mjg

Kloogy; why are you getting mad, chill out.

P.S, if i raced you in my rocket ship, you would need infantecimally smalll nanite smart robots piece your seperated molecules togther (laugh)

ram air, and hood scoops are ghey. Obviously the ws6 package is partially cosmetic , and that is one of the options.

Y2KXCLAN

Well guyz....I get everyones point about it not being as affective as some think....but i can tell ya....my mom had a 76 camaro and it was modded big time.....anyways the ram air hood scoop and the HUUUGe air filter made huge difference . It sounded like a 747 and gave good horse power.

And Kloogy didnt appear to be getting mad to me....just Talking some well deserved smack

SoonerFan

iTrader: (5)

listen here @ss, the "ram air" wouldnt be what beat me.
im glad it would make you feel like a man to beat a 4 door family car with your WS6.

Ben

http://www.vetteguru.com/ramair/

Ram air is a gimic. Can we please kill the thread? Please, please, pretty please.

paralyse

Not going to debate whether or not ram air works.

1. Air pressure (and velocity) increase as air is forced through a smaller opening but air flow volume decreases. Duh. Whoever was using that ridiculous funnel analogy needs to check their science books -- or stick a funnel out the window while driving 65-70 MPH and tell me the air pressure isn't higher coming out the small end.

2. Any air you "ram into" the engine still has to get past the throttle plate/throttle body, which can only flow so much air at a given time. Also, the extra pressure generated by "ramming" the air is nowhere near the pressures generated by FI; therefore, whatever small pressure gains you get by Ram Air'ing a VQ would probably be offset by the flow capacity of the intake manifold and throttle body.

In addition to that, if too much air is being "rammed" into the engine, it might exceed the flow capacity of the intake manifold and heads, creating turbulence (the "extra" air.)

Not saying there's not some HP gains for Ram Air (numbers don't lie) but just saying it's not worth it when compared to FI. The Ram Air system on, say, a Trans Am, or a GTO, is built as part of a SYSTEM with heads, intake, TB, etc. all taken into configuration.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

ummm....a 76 camaro is a MUSCLE CAR.

MUSCLE CARS look good with hood scoops, it's part of "the look"....

as to the horsepower and sound....well, that's because it probably had a big-block V8 under the hood and straight pipes and all those goodies that typical muscle cars have. no matter what you do, your maxima will not be a muscle car, will not look like a muscle car, and will not have the beastly roar of a classic V8....

if hood scoop is your look, then get rid of the maxi and get a muscle car, or a subaru cuz MOST 4-door large sedans will look stupid with a hood scoop....unless you are totally pimped out for show, then it would be ok I guess...

bottom line is - ram air is a gimmick, it's just a CAI that pokes through the hood instead of out the front of the car or the wheel well..

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

"Ram Air", "Posi-Traction", "Cobra-Jet"...

All gimmick names started in the muscle car era to set the different manufacturers vehicles apart. That's it.

wade2ksleeper

isn't posi-traction as lsd, wouldn't that make a difference

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

Posi-Traction is GM's patented name version of a LSD, just like Trak-Lock (or Trak-Lok...can't recall exactly) is Dodge/MOPAR's name version. Like I said, it's manufacturer specific. Ram Air is generally considered to be a Pontiac thing since the original GTO was the vehicle which first sported this particular performance name item. "Cowl Induction" is another GM/Chevy item...

wade2ksleeper

so are you saying that lsd isn't effective, or that the name posi-traction is a gimic

paralyse

It could be argued that Olds started it in the '40s with the "Rocket", Chevy and Chrysler were quick to come up with "Firedomes" and "hemis" and "blue flames" -- but Posi-Traction (Trac-Lok is the Mopar btw) is an actual performance enhancer, not just a "gimmick name." It IS a LSD.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

I think he means how the "name" is gimmicky.....
instead of saying it has an LSD, they call it "Posi-Traction".....

instead of saying it has a hood-mounted cold air intake, they call it "Ram Air"

theMax

Best definition yet.

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

That is exactly my point and meaning. It's not a gimmick in that it's some sort of gussied up performance thing, but rather that it has such a fancy name

SoonerFan

iTrader: (5)

its not just a fancy name
it is a gimmick because they try to say that "ram air" is better then other hood mounted cold air intakes.
people will say "i want a trans am. but i want the one with ram air" so they pay more and all the get is two hood scoops that say "ram air" on the side. granted i agree it looks mean as hell. but there are no benifits like they advertise.

Y2KXCLAN

This has turned into yet another one fo those name calling and smack talkin fests that i see so often ..... wish i hadnt asked.
Btw the purpose of asking about ram air had absolutely nothing related to looks.....just performance. I personally do not ask people what looks good on cars nor tell......its not my place. Just performance is my concern

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

i think your question HAS been answered:

no, nobody has cut a hole in the OEM hood and put a scoop on it.....

or

no, it doesn't help

or

yes, it does

or

that looks gay

or

everyone likes to argue

or

ask a broad question, get a broad answer

P. Samson

"Ram" or ram air is real and is the physics of changing air flow or the speed of air into an increased air pressure. (above ambient) And you don't have to have a monster scoop or duct or some "150 mph" to make use of it. As soon as you start moving ahead the whole front of your car is subjected to ram air pressure which will be above the ambient air pressure; obviously the higher the speed the more "ram" pressure is being applied to the frontal areas of the car. Airspeed indicators (really just a pressure gauge) on aircraft use a forward faceing tube called the pitot tube or head with an inside diameter of about a 1/4' that senses the ram pressure and converts it to airspeed. The airspeed indicators on light aircraft usually react and are readable at about 50 mph and above. But this is just "dead end" pressure. There is no flow requirment. On your car there is a flow requirement obviously as the engine when running has a "demand" for air. The intake must meet the maximum airflow required by the engine. This is a volume measurement usually measured in so many "cubic feet per minute". (CFM). With our engines it is only so much, and it is a fixed volume. We cannot go more than WOT and we cannot change the volume of the cylinders etc. This is a "full feedback" type fuel metering/control system and it is air density sensitive. It will react POSITIVELY (i.e. produce more power for the same throttle position) if you can increase pressure and/or decrease air temperature to the cylinders. It will deliver more fuel. The stock scoop is in fact a cold air and a ram air scoop. Yeah I know it looks small. Yes I know the system is a bit of a trade off between noise and performance. But I believe that the stock system has enough flow capacity although possibly marginal at WOT and redline rpm. How long are you there?? This is not a gas turbine (jet) engine!!The stock ducting and the air filter housing/box will in fact change the airflow created by the fwd. motion of the car into a slightly higher pressure than ambient to the THROTTLE and therefore to the cylinders. Obviously more speed, more pressure. A ram air system to work must have a convergent duct (the "scoop" and fwd. ducting) and then a divergent (increase in area) duct or opening. In our case this is the airfilter housing. This slows the airflow down and there is an increase in pressure. ("Bournoulli's principle") This increase will be "felt" downstream. I am not drag or "dyno" racing and I'm not at WOT for very long. Probably either are you in fact. Other than installing a K&N filter I have basically left the intake alone. I have no issues and have never had any.The engine responds to the throttle instantly and is capable of pushing you back in the seat especially about that magical 4000 to 4500 rpm range. I know this is not good enough for a lot of you. If you change the intake at least PLEASE take the air from in front of the radiator support. I have said it before... in every day driving hot air is a power robber. You will have fuel delivery cutback and possibly also spark retarding. High intake air makes the engine more prone to detonation and can cause the "bogging down" snag that you have seen, along with some of the other issues related to some of the intake mods.

Y2KXCLAN

impressive

SoonerFan

iTrader: (5)

and we answered the question. did you not see that???

NO PERFORMANCE GAINS
ALL LOOKS

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

Sampson,better not bring up airplanes....Jason (soonerfan) is in the Air Force

as to "ram air" I think we can see that what works "in theory" doesn't always work in "reality" (and vice versa).....

SoonerFan

iTrader: (5)

and i think you need to go to work navy boy

ram air isnt a theory. it is a marketing gimick
to whoever thought of it, cause it works to sell cars.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

CWS baby....don't you wish you had it

P. Samson

I'll try another route here to convince you to leave the stock intake basically intact..... I would like you to research for yourselves (as you won't believe me) the principle, operation and caveats of the "hot wire" type MAFs that are used on our cars. Then get back to me. I hope a lot of "light bulbs" come on after!!