Stock suspension SAFE??
10-03-2004, 02:43 PM
#1
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: West Henrietta, NY
Posts: 831
Stock suspension SAFE??
Anybody besides me feel like the stock maxima suspension is too loose to be safe on the road. Every little bump throws the car off and when you turn the wheel to counter this the body rolls excessively (especially on the highway). I used to own a 99 cougar and it handled like a dream. I have been in a few situations where I had to corner quick in order to avoid an accident. I feel like if I was put in this situation with the maxima I would probably lose control dur to EXCESSIVE body roll. I do have a FSTB and RSB and they were a waste of money. If I was to do it all over again the first thing I would have done was change the suspension (hint hint newbies). I guess I just feel more safe in my cougar especially on the highway.
If I want body roll to be gone for the most part and handle MUCH better are H&Rs too soft?? I do not want a big drop, I want better handling and I cannot stand the way this car handles. It feels like the car was just made to go in a straight line. Everytime you try to get it to turn the suspension fights you the whole way.
What do you guys feel?
Mark
If I want body roll to be gone for the most part and handle MUCH better are H&Rs too soft?? I do not want a big drop, I want better handling and I cannot stand the way this car handles. It feels like the car was just made to go in a straight line. Everytime you try to get it to turn the suspension fights you the whole way.
What do you guys feel?
Mark
10-03-2004, 03:01 PM
#2
Subframe connectors to stiffen up the chassis. Better struts (Tokico Illumina). I'm not sure if these will reduce body roll, but the Illuminas will allow you to bias the rear suspension so it moves faster (having rears set 1 setting higher than the fronts, which is what I do) and SFCs should reduce some of the looseness (I haven't tried them yet, but I intend to... and everyone I've heard who has them really likes them)
10-03-2004, 03:51 PM
#6
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I think I am going with springs and struts. I am just not confident the handling of my 02 can handle an emergency situation as well as it should. Also I hate turns because the car just resists every step of the way. I just want to make sure if I buy the H&Rs the car will have significantly less body roll. I wish I had just bought the springs/struts instead of wasting money on the RSB and FSTB. Even with them the car handles worst than any other car I have owned
10-03-2004, 03:52 PM
#7
One thing i noticed is that adding an RSB actually makes the back-end jump around more when one side hits a bump at highway speeds - it's not readily apparent in slow speed maneuvers but it's there.
Something to consider.
Something to consider.
10-03-2004, 04:46 PM
#8
no amount of suspension tuning will change the fact that the maxima is a big car and will handle like one. having a rear beam axle doesn't exactly help the situation either.
with the current setup i have a pretty good idea of the car's limits and drive it accordingly. i have the RSB, FTSB, and a set of decent tires and even though i experience body roll in the corners the car still feels under control and safe with the stock suspension.
imo the only way the stock suspension isn't safe is when you're driving it outside of it's limits. suspension upgrades and/or tires extend those limits to a certain extent, but this car was not designed to be tossable.
with the current setup i have a pretty good idea of the car's limits and drive it accordingly. i have the RSB, FTSB, and a set of decent tires and even though i experience body roll in the corners the car still feels under control and safe with the stock suspension.
imo the only way the stock suspension isn't safe is when you're driving it outside of it's limits. suspension upgrades and/or tires extend those limits to a certain extent, but this car was not designed to be tossable.
10-03-2004, 07:11 PM
#9
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Location: West Henrietta, NY
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no offense but I have owned some GREAT handling cars and on a scale of 1-10 the maxima handles a 4-5. My brother has a grand prix GTP and it handles like a dream (it is a big car). It is in the suspension...
10-03-2004, 07:38 PM
#10
Stock or not
I think the stock suspension IS dangerous when pushed hard.
Emergency maneuvers can also be.....tricky, if you're not ready to experience the quirky feedback of the stock ride.
I think FOR THE MONEY adding an RSB is the best improvment in eliminating at least 50% of the extreme body roll that comes stock on this car.
The FSTB didn't make that much difference to me, but only in tight hard turns was this improvement truly felt.
Most Max owners aren't like us -- they're just getting from point A to point B, and not looking for a sports-car-like ride. So, for the masses -- stock is fine.
I've been in some fine handling cars that were beam-axle shod, but still - it's a major disadvantage when it comes to the overall poise of this vehicle.
Drive a 6th gen, you'll see what I mean -- huge improvement.
That and the weight are huge problems in this car's handling.
I've said it before: this AIN'T a BMW, and it's not going to be. That's good and that's bad....but for the most part, BMW's don't come close to the bang-for-the-buck value that the Max has to offer.
I regularly spar with my buddy in his 540i. Granted, he'll walk me all day long from about 80 and up....but I KNOW it ticks him off that I can keep up with him off the line and up through 70.
The Illuminas are really great struts if you want to vastly improve the CORNERING ability (including stiffer springs) of your Max. But don't be fooled -- any modicum of comfort and svelteness you once had in your Max WILL be gone! The illuminas are NOT well damped, and trasmit ALOT of road harshness straight through the enitre car.
Life is always about compromises and tradeoffs -- make your decision wisely, especially for the kind of driving you do MOST often.
gr
Emergency maneuvers can also be.....tricky, if you're not ready to experience the quirky feedback of the stock ride.
I think FOR THE MONEY adding an RSB is the best improvment in eliminating at least 50% of the extreme body roll that comes stock on this car.
The FSTB didn't make that much difference to me, but only in tight hard turns was this improvement truly felt.
Most Max owners aren't like us -- they're just getting from point A to point B, and not looking for a sports-car-like ride. So, for the masses -- stock is fine.
I've been in some fine handling cars that were beam-axle shod, but still - it's a major disadvantage when it comes to the overall poise of this vehicle.
Drive a 6th gen, you'll see what I mean -- huge improvement.
That and the weight are huge problems in this car's handling.
I've said it before: this AIN'T a BMW, and it's not going to be. That's good and that's bad....but for the most part, BMW's don't come close to the bang-for-the-buck value that the Max has to offer.
I regularly spar with my buddy in his 540i. Granted, he'll walk me all day long from about 80 and up....but I KNOW it ticks him off that I can keep up with him off the line and up through 70.
The Illuminas are really great struts if you want to vastly improve the CORNERING ability (including stiffer springs) of your Max. But don't be fooled -- any modicum of comfort and svelteness you once had in your Max WILL be gone! The illuminas are NOT well damped, and trasmit ALOT of road harshness straight through the enitre car.
Life is always about compromises and tradeoffs -- make your decision wisely, especially for the kind of driving you do MOST often.
gr
10-03-2004, 07:49 PM
#12
Originally Posted by PhxBlue
You want sportscar and comfort? Buy JIC coilovers or something equivalent otherwise you are giving up one for the other. 
Nice job.
gr
10-03-2004, 09:58 PM
#18
Originally Posted by mdloops
not to blast you guzo but why do people have their brand of tires listed as a modification?
10-04-2004, 10:39 AM
#21
Originally Posted by mdloops
I used to own a 99 cougar and it handled like a dream.
good luck on your suspension upgrades, but don't expect the max to handle like your old car.
10-04-2004, 12:47 PM
#22
There is a reason a BMW the size of the maxima (5-series) costs twice as much......and handling is one of those reasons. I can't understand why everyone persists on trying to compare the Maxima with a BMW. First of all, it's pretty damn tough to find ANY sedan that will out-handle a BMW without AWD. Second. BMWs are RWD. The maxima is FWD. There are far different handling dynamics between FWD and RWD. Third. With all the problems we seem to have with the maxima, it is still a far more reliable car than the typical BMW. Fourth. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!! If you buy a $40K mid-large sedan, you'll get alot of things on the car that are better than the maxima.
If you don't like the handling of the car, why did you buy it in the first place? I assume you test drove it, right? If the handling was so bad, Why not buy something else? I'll tell you why. You like the VQ30/35. You like alot of features for a cheap price. You like the look of the car...whatever.
To add - there are thousands and thousands of people out there who drive Maximas that are completely STOCK, who have no problems with the handling. I know several of these people and have never heard them complain about the maxima being "unsafe". Does the maxima have some body roll? Yes. But if you feel like the maxima's handling is unsafe, then one of the following is true:
1. You are driving WAY too hard on public streets, and should slow the F*CK down.
or
2. YOu are simply a sh1tty driver
And do all the suspension mods you want, they will not solve EITHER of the above two problems.......I have driven cars and SUV's that are WAY more "boat-feeling" than the maxima....it's all relative.
If you don't like the handling of the car, why did you buy it in the first place? I assume you test drove it, right? If the handling was so bad, Why not buy something else? I'll tell you why. You like the VQ30/35. You like alot of features for a cheap price. You like the look of the car...whatever.
To add - there are thousands and thousands of people out there who drive Maximas that are completely STOCK, who have no problems with the handling. I know several of these people and have never heard them complain about the maxima being "unsafe". Does the maxima have some body roll? Yes. But if you feel like the maxima's handling is unsafe, then one of the following is true:
1. You are driving WAY too hard on public streets, and should slow the F*CK down.
or
2. YOu are simply a sh1tty driver
And do all the suspension mods you want, they will not solve EITHER of the above two problems.......I have driven cars and SUV's that are WAY more "boat-feeling" than the maxima....it's all relative.
10-04-2004, 02:07 PM
#25
RWD handles better because traction for power delivery is supplied by the rear wheels, allowing the front wheels more traction for steering.
RWD has a problem with oversteer--if you exceed the traction limits of the rear tires, you tend to oversteer. AWD solves that by redistributing torque to the tires with the most traction immediately. That is a very powerful feature when pushing a car to its limits.
FWD probably handles the worst, but it has an advantage in inclement weather over RWD, because the front wheels have more traction due to the fact that the vehicle is usually front-heavy from the concentrated mass of the engine being in the front. AWD beats them all due to its ability to transfer torque around.
On the other hand, AWD probably adds a lot of rotational mass to the drivetrain, which decreases the amount of torque actually reaching the wheels. RWD probably adds extra rotational mass over FWD too. But then with FWD you have to deal with "torque steer", which is the tendency for torque application to exaggerate or instigate steering, thanks to the fact that you are applying torque through the same wheels that steer.
Now this is my layman's explanation based on what I've read over the years... experts please step in and correct me
RWD has a problem with oversteer--if you exceed the traction limits of the rear tires, you tend to oversteer. AWD solves that by redistributing torque to the tires with the most traction immediately. That is a very powerful feature when pushing a car to its limits.
FWD probably handles the worst, but it has an advantage in inclement weather over RWD, because the front wheels have more traction due to the fact that the vehicle is usually front-heavy from the concentrated mass of the engine being in the front. AWD beats them all due to its ability to transfer torque around.
On the other hand, AWD probably adds a lot of rotational mass to the drivetrain, which decreases the amount of torque actually reaching the wheels. RWD probably adds extra rotational mass over FWD too. But then with FWD you have to deal with "torque steer", which is the tendency for torque application to exaggerate or instigate steering, thanks to the fact that you are applying torque through the same wheels that steer.
Now this is my layman's explanation based on what I've read over the years... experts please step in and correct me
10-04-2004, 02:34 PM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 556
thx for the lesson. I've always had curiousity about this.
I've always had curiousity about this.
Originally Posted by spirilis
RWD handles better because traction for power delivery is supplied by the rear wheels, allowing the front wheels more traction for steering.
RWD has a problem with oversteer--if you exceed the traction limits of the rear tires, you tend to oversteer. AWD solves that by redistributing torque to the tires with the most traction immediately. That is a very powerful feature when pushing a car to its limits.
FWD probably handles the worst, but it has an advantage in inclement weather over RWD, because the front wheels have more traction due to the fact that the vehicle is usually front-heavy from the concentrated mass of the engine being in the front. AWD beats them all due to its ability to transfer torque around.
On the other hand, AWD probably adds a lot of rotational mass to the drivetrain, which decreases the amount of torque actually reaching the wheels. RWD probably adds extra rotational mass over FWD too. But then with FWD you have to deal with "torque steer", which is the tendency for torque application to exaggerate or instigate steering, thanks to the fact that you are applying torque through the same wheels that steer.
Now this is my layman's explanation based on what I've read over the years... experts please step in and correct me
RWD has a problem with oversteer--if you exceed the traction limits of the rear tires, you tend to oversteer. AWD solves that by redistributing torque to the tires with the most traction immediately. That is a very powerful feature when pushing a car to its limits.
FWD probably handles the worst, but it has an advantage in inclement weather over RWD, because the front wheels have more traction due to the fact that the vehicle is usually front-heavy from the concentrated mass of the engine being in the front. AWD beats them all due to its ability to transfer torque around.
On the other hand, AWD probably adds a lot of rotational mass to the drivetrain, which decreases the amount of torque actually reaching the wheels. RWD probably adds extra rotational mass over FWD too. But then with FWD you have to deal with "torque steer", which is the tendency for torque application to exaggerate or instigate steering, thanks to the fact that you are applying torque through the same wheels that steer.
Now this is my layman's explanation based on what I've read over the years... experts please step in and correct me
10-04-2004, 03:22 PM
#28
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Join Date: Apr 2003
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Posts: 73
Yes, I too agree that the stock suspension is a bit loose, especially when you approach 70 mph and above. At 70 and above, I constantly have to do "track" corrections with the steering wheel of my 2001 Maxima SE to keep the car under control. Under 70 mph though, I think the multi-link beam is quite entertaining. It's never punishing or crashes over bumps like my 2002 Altima 3.5 SE does. I used to work at a Nissan Dealership and I'm here to tell you, you think your Maxima multi-link beam sucks, try the same suspension setup on a smaller car. The 2000-2005 Sentra has the same suspension setup with the beam at the rear but the wheelbase is much shorter, obviously. The ride in the Sentra is brutal! It can be characterized as a bunch of sharp kicks and pronounced bumps. I think the multi-link beam was designed for a much larger car like the Maxima. Nissan cost-cutting, you've gotta love it!
10-04-2004, 04:57 PM
#29
My car is completely stock and I think it handles just fine at higher speeds. The only problem I have is going over really uneven terrain (ie railroad tracks, contruction) and the rear tends to hop around a bit. My previous cars were a 98 Honda Prelude and a 99 Audi A4 Quattro. Now both of these cars handled like they were on rails and the Max is not even in the same league as far as handling. However, overall performance, interior room, reliability and value I would choose the Max any day.
10-04-2004, 08:04 PM
#31
Originally Posted by irish44j
To add - there are thousands and thousands of people out there who drive Maximas that are completely STOCK, who have no problems with the handling. I know several of these people and have never heard them complain about the maxima being "unsafe". Does the maxima have some body roll? Yes. But if you feel like the maxima's handling is unsafe, then one of the following is true:
1. You are driving WAY too hard on public streets, and should slow the F*CK down.
or
2. YOu are simply a sh1tty driver
funny but he has a point too....
10-04-2004, 08:06 PM
#32
Originally Posted by spirilis
RWD handles better because traction for power delivery is supplied by the rear wheels, allowing the front wheels more traction for steering.
RWD has a problem with oversteer--if you exceed the traction limits of the rear tires, you tend to oversteer. AWD solves that by redistributing torque to the tires with the most traction immediately. That is a very powerful feature when pushing a car to its limits.
FWD probably handles the worst, but it has an advantage in inclement weather over RWD, because the front wheels have more traction due to the fact that the vehicle is usually front-heavy from the concentrated mass of the engine being in the front. AWD beats them all due to its ability to transfer torque around.
On the other hand, AWD probably adds a lot of rotational mass to the drivetrain, which decreases the amount of torque actually reaching the wheels. RWD probably adds extra rotational mass over FWD too. But then with FWD you have to deal with "torque steer", which is the tendency for torque application to exaggerate or instigate steering, thanks to the fact that you are applying torque through the same wheels that steer.
Now this is my layman's explanation based on what I've read over the years... experts please step in and correct me
RWD has a problem with oversteer--if you exceed the traction limits of the rear tires, you tend to oversteer. AWD solves that by redistributing torque to the tires with the most traction immediately. That is a very powerful feature when pushing a car to its limits.
FWD probably handles the worst, but it has an advantage in inclement weather over RWD, because the front wheels have more traction due to the fact that the vehicle is usually front-heavy from the concentrated mass of the engine being in the front. AWD beats them all due to its ability to transfer torque around.
On the other hand, AWD probably adds a lot of rotational mass to the drivetrain, which decreases the amount of torque actually reaching the wheels. RWD probably adds extra rotational mass over FWD too. But then with FWD you have to deal with "torque steer", which is the tendency for torque application to exaggerate or instigate steering, thanks to the fact that you are applying torque through the same wheels that steer.
Now this is my layman's explanation based on what I've read over the years... experts please step in and correct me
10-04-2004, 08:07 PM
#33
Originally Posted by Nismo3point5
However, overall performance, interior room, reliability and value I would choose the Max any day.
10-04-2004, 08:11 PM
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 963
I have an '02 Maxima and I felt the same as you about the handling. Absolutely unsafe. I've already tried multiple suspension combos on the car (H&R/Tokico Blues, H&R/GR2, H&R with GR2 Front and KONI rear, the Addco RSB, 18" rims with 245/45/18). The Addco rear sway bar helps some, but it is not an amazing difference. The 18" rims do help the handling, but also make the ride much harsher. The GR2 struts handling much better than the Blues. The biggest improvement was ugprading the rear struts to KONI yellows and cranking the rebound setting up high. This firmed up the rear end and made the front much more responsive. The car is not "twitchy" now but it does turn in MUCH better. The trouble is the ride is pretty harsh between the 18's and the lowered suspension. I've finally concluded that the biggest issue is really the OEM struts. I think the OEM springs with AGX struts or KONI struts should give you dramatically better control and is probably the best place to spend the money. If you still want/need it you can always get a FSTB or RSB later. The rear axle needs really good struts to keep it planted.
10-04-2004, 08:12 PM
#35
dont know
Originally Posted by mdloops
no offense but I have owned some GREAT handling cars and on a scale of 1-10 the maxima handles a 4-5. My brother has a grand prix GTP and it handles like a dream (it is a big car). It is in the suspension...
10-05-2004, 06:53 PM
#36
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: West Henrietta, NY
Posts: 831
>To add - there are thousands and thousands of people out there who drive Maximas >that are completely STOCK, who have no problems with the handling. I know several >of these people and have never heard them complain about the maxima >being "unsafe". Does the maxima have some body roll? Yes. But if you feel like the >maxima's handling is unsafe, then one of the following is true:
>1. You are driving WAY too hard on public streets, and should slow the F*CK down.
>or
>2. YOu are simply a sh1tty driver
Fist of all I am Active Duty Army and if I were to speed or drive unsafe I would have all driving priviledges taken from me by my commander. I do not go to the track nor do I believe in racing. My previous cars would turn on a dime and if I was ever in a situation where I needed to turn very hard quickly I could get out of it. These are the situations I am talking about. Please try to remember not everybody speeds or races. Your comment about being a ****ty driver is completely ignorant and based from your own arrogance. The fact is the Maxima handles like a damn Buick.
>1. You are driving WAY too hard on public streets, and should slow the F*CK down.
>or
>2. YOu are simply a sh1tty driver
Fist of all I am Active Duty Army and if I were to speed or drive unsafe I would have all driving priviledges taken from me by my commander. I do not go to the track nor do I believe in racing. My previous cars would turn on a dime and if I was ever in a situation where I needed to turn very hard quickly I could get out of it. These are the situations I am talking about. Please try to remember not everybody speeds or races. Your comment about being a ****ty driver is completely ignorant and based from your own arrogance. The fact is the Maxima handles like a damn Buick.
10-05-2004, 07:12 PM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 164
Originally Posted by mdloops
>To add - there are thousands and thousands of people out there who drive Maximas >that are completely STOCK, who have no problems with the handling. I know several >of these people and have never heard them complain about the maxima >being "unsafe". Does the maxima have some body roll? Yes. But if you feel like the >maxima's handling is unsafe, then one of the following is true:
>1. You are driving WAY too hard on public streets, and should slow the F*CK down.
>or
>2. YOu are simply a sh1tty driver
Fist of all I am Active Duty Army and if I were to speed or drive unsafe I would have all driving priviledges taken from me by my commander. I do not go to the track nor do I believe in racing. My previous cars would turn on a dime and if I was ever in a situation where I needed to turn very hard quickly I could get out of it. These are the situations I am talking about. Please try to remember not everybody speeds or races. Your comment about being a ****ty driver is completely ignorant and based from your own arrogance. The fact is the Maxima handles like a damn Buick.
>1. You are driving WAY too hard on public streets, and should slow the F*CK down.
>or
>2. YOu are simply a sh1tty driver
Fist of all I am Active Duty Army and if I were to speed or drive unsafe I would have all driving priviledges taken from me by my commander. I do not go to the track nor do I believe in racing. My previous cars would turn on a dime and if I was ever in a situation where I needed to turn very hard quickly I could get out of it. These are the situations I am talking about. Please try to remember not everybody speeds or races. Your comment about being a ****ty driver is completely ignorant and based from your own arrogance. The fact is the Maxima handles like a damn Buick.
I have an idea. Why don't you sell your max and go buy a 99 Cougar, or your bros Grand Prix?
10-05-2004, 07:18 PM
#39
Actually, I was not referring to speeding or racing at all. I was referring to general driving conditions on my 25-mile (each way) commute on the Washington, D.C. Beltway, which is not a "fun" drive. I also go through the Springfield, VA "Mixing Bowl" (the I-95, I-395, I-495 interchange) which is rated as one of the "most dangerous interchanges in the country." Handling is KEY on this commute, as evasive/emergency maneuvers are the NORM, because of the crazy traffic patterns there. My car's handling is set up specifically for commuting on a hectic and sometimes dangerous highway, NOT for the track. I don't drag race on the street. I go to run the 1/4 mile once a year just for fun, but always on a track. I occassionally auto-cross my classic sportscar with other classic sportscars, and have been trained in all kinds of driving at law-enforcement and military-sponsored driving courses.....I also spent three years driving on the "no rules, no speed-limit" highways in Italy, with no accidents (which is rare). So I am not being arrogant, I am confident in my driving ability and experience, that's all, and rarely come upon a situation in the car in which I feel that I cannot safely handle.
By the way, I work in a military environment as well, and know MANY MANY Active duty soldiers, sailors, and airmen who are bad drivers, who race, etc. I hear them talk about it all the time. Guess what? Never heard of any of them having driving privileges taken from them by the chain of command, unless a DWI/DUI was involved. There is actually an E-4 in my division who keeps a list of his "kills" street-racing in his early-90's Supra....I don't condone it at all, I think street racing is stupid....
Now, I have owned (past and current) various sports cars over the years. I will not argue that the maxima handles like my AWD Lancia Integrale, my classic Triumphs, my Integra, etc.....They are all lighter cars, and have different drivetrains and suspensions. But the maxima handles how I expect it to (even stock). It is a 3300-lb car that handles (wait for it....) like a 3300-lb car. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a GLE Maxima handles similar to a 3300-lb Buick. I would also say I don't think Buicks are unsafe any more than Maximas are.....
Safety is in knowing the limits of your car. The limits of the maxima may very well be lower than a BMW or a sportscar......it's the driver's job to compensate for any handling deficiency that the car may have.
But I ask again, if you think the maxima handles poorly, why do you own one? If you think it is "dangerous", why would you drive one?
By the way, I work in a military environment as well, and know MANY MANY Active duty soldiers, sailors, and airmen who are bad drivers, who race, etc. I hear them talk about it all the time. Guess what? Never heard of any of them having driving privileges taken from them by the chain of command, unless a DWI/DUI was involved. There is actually an E-4 in my division who keeps a list of his "kills" street-racing in his early-90's Supra....I don't condone it at all, I think street racing is stupid....
Now, I have owned (past and current) various sports cars over the years. I will not argue that the maxima handles like my AWD Lancia Integrale, my classic Triumphs, my Integra, etc.....They are all lighter cars, and have different drivetrains and suspensions. But the maxima handles how I expect it to (even stock). It is a 3300-lb car that handles (wait for it....) like a 3300-lb car. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a GLE Maxima handles similar to a 3300-lb Buick. I would also say I don't think Buicks are unsafe any more than Maximas are.....
Safety is in knowing the limits of your car. The limits of the maxima may very well be lower than a BMW or a sportscar......it's the driver's job to compensate for any handling deficiency that the car may have.
But I ask again, if you think the maxima handles poorly, why do you own one? If you think it is "dangerous", why would you drive one?
10-05-2004, 07:25 PM
#40
By the way. ...I was not attacking you PERSONALLY...i was simply trying to state that (assuming a late-model car in good condition)...that any car is safe in the hands of a good driver who knows the car's limits, and any car can be unsafe in the hands of a bad driver who does NOT know it's limits.
I think we can BOTH agree that there are many, many people out there who are BAD DRIVERS, or SH1TTY DRIVERS, and many people who are good drivers.....the maxima is not inherently unsafe, unless in the hands of a bad driver. By that logic, I was simply projecting that you are a bad driver since you feel the car is unsafe....Sorry if I was wrong, but I was simply using direct logic.
You comments on the cougar being superior to the maxima are what set me off a little, and I apologize if I got too personal.
I think we can BOTH agree that there are many, many people out there who are BAD DRIVERS, or SH1TTY DRIVERS, and many people who are good drivers.....the maxima is not inherently unsafe, unless in the hands of a bad driver. By that logic, I was simply projecting that you are a bad driver since you feel the car is unsafe....Sorry if I was wrong, but I was simply using direct logic.
You comments on the cougar being superior to the maxima are what set me off a little, and I apologize if I got too personal.