what happens when you grind the clutch? does it muff up the gears or the clutch itself, or both? i did this on accident while letting out the clutch pedal and still shifting into gear, and got the grinding sound. i dunno how many times you are "allowed" to do this before clutch gets really meseed up, i am pretty new with a manual tranny, so this has happened to me twice already, switching into different gears tho.

second question: i was coasting in neutral down the road, and pulled my shifter right into fourth gear, without depressing the clutch pedal, it just slipped into gear with almost no effort. is this normal?

 

oh wow....i think it basically depends on how severe the grind is...for example, if you're going 60 and you wanna put it into 3rd without rev-matching...you're most likely gonna get a pretty big grind and that could screw up your tranny seriously...but if you're just at a roll or something and you wanna put it into 2nd, that not going to be as serious because the gears arent moving as fast and they can catch easier....

as for your odd ability of putting it in gear without depressing the clutch...yeah that's pretty weird...did the gear actually engage? and why did you do this in the 1st place? just by accident?? i'm no expert, but i know that shouldn't happen, especially while coasting down a hill...

 

i believe what you are grinding is not the clutch the but the actual tranny gears, and the more you do it, the more worn the gear "teeth" will be and if you do it many times, the teeth might break off or the gears will begin to slip....

im not an expert either so correct me if im wrong..

 

As far as being able to get in gear without clutching.. Yes, you can do it.

It's a matter of catching it exactly at the right time.. I have yet been able to get into 4th gear though.

It's a hard thing to describe how to do over the internet, but showing you is much easier.

Get up to about 20mph in 1st, then quickly pull it out of gear without the clutch or gas. Keep slight down pressure on the stick as if you want to put it in 2nd. Don't force it hard, with some pressure it will go in without the clutch if you timed it right.There will be a delay of about 1-2 seconds before it slips into 2nd gear. The same goes from 2nd to 3rd. It's the lazy man's shift. It can only be done when you're not in rush because it isn't meant to be used when shifting quickly.

 

yeah, that sounds about right slipping into fourth. i was coasting about 30 or so, and just pulling on the shifter, and then, bam, it slipped into gear. i figured it was because the revs or the tranny and engine were the same and it allowed to engage the gears. as far as the grind, the first time, i was shifting out of 1st and into 2nd, and let out the clutch too soon, but this happened at about 2500 rpm, and not going too fast, the second time was slightly rolling, switching back into 1st. let out the cluch a little too soon. anyway, i just wanted to know how bad this was for my car, and if the tranny is strong enough to put up with this once or twice without major damage.

 

i'm sure putting it into gear without depressing the clutch will cause extra strain on your tranny, but don't worry about the grinding..as long as it was a real short grind and your rpms were relatively low, it'll be fine....the one time i ground a gear was in a freaking grocery store parking lot and a ton of people gave me a weird look they probably thought i couldnt drive, but it was because i thought it was in 2nd but the stupid shifter popped out right as i was releasing the clutch...it's not that big of a deal, but if your gears catch at the exact wrong time, it could mean trouble....

 

Is it also bad to pull your car out of gear without pressing on the clutch?

 

its not the actually gears that are grinding..the gears are always engaged

The grinding is the sound of the dog teeth on the collar trying unsuccessfully to engage the holes in the side of a gear.

 

hmm...thanks a lot for the picture! i thought that both the collar and the gears had teeth that meshed together...i didn't realize there were actually 'holes' in the gear that the teeth of the collar went into...thanks for clearing that up! I learn something new every day on the .org!

 

so when you grind, the 'tops' of the teeth a wearing off on all of them? not just one or two will snap off?

 

yes, you are wearing all of them off. eventually you wont be able to hold a gear since the collar cant engage the gears

 

eventually means if i keep grinding, or from normal wear?

 

depends on if you know how to drive or not....some people ride the clutch a lot without fully depressing it, which causes pre-mature wear as well...but if you grind it a lot, there is a greater chance that the teeth will completely wear out leaving you unable to put your car in gear...

 

What would you say is the best way to rev match? 6 out of 10 times I'm successful but other times I either shoot the rpms way high or not enough. I only rev match when downshifting.

 

i always just tap the throttle lightly to see where the RPMs end up, then if i need to go higher, i tap it again... :shrug: it works for me....the trick is knowing how many RPMs you need to be at at a certain speed....

 

Geez guys! Gear grinding affects the tranny not the clutch. Periodic minor grinding at idle/low power usually won't hurt anything. It is usually only the sound of the "corners" of gear teeth momentarily coming together and usually the gearshift just gets kicked back at you. With normal shifting of course the gear synchronizers do the job of matching the gear speeds (or the driver speed matching or double clutching). Gears are made out of really "good stuff" (steel) and the gear teeth are "case hardened" to resist the wear that would occur due to the constant contact and loads imposed by the "partner" gear/s. The gear teeth case hardening is only a thin really hard surface layer which is brittle and can be chipped, but the gear teeth parent steel material is "tough" to resist loads and stresses UP TO A POINT. At higher power a bad mis-shift can result in chipped and broken gear teeth. "Aggressive" shifting can also be hard on the synchos. With reasonable care a MT should last the life of the car.

 

that's what i thought, that grinding actually ground the gear teeth. my buddy has a 95 accord 5spd, and he replaced his clutch after about 75k miles. i think this is just from wear and tear.

 

^^what he said.

as to shifting without clutching (aka "quick shifting") it can be done, but you really have to be dead-on...and frankly, there's no reason for it. I was able to quick-shift my 5MT 92 accord coupe easily, 1-2,2-3,3-4, and 4-5, at precisely 2700 rpm (as I recall)...but aside from knowing I could do it, there was no real reason to do it