Y-pipe, O2 and ECM update - HELP!
07-26-2005, 09:02 AM
#1
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Y-pipe, O2 and ECM update - HELP!
I need help guys/galls:
I have a Budget Y-pipe, Fed spec 2K, and yesterday my SES light came on. I pulled the P0140 code from the ECM (rear O2 sensor pre-cat) and found the TSB NTB02051 for it which says to replace the O2 sensor and reprogram the ECM.
Called the dealer and they say I would be covered for 8 yr 130,000 km warranty in case it is found that ECM programming is at fault. If the sensor is faulty then I would need to pay for its replacement ($200-300) and for Consult II time which is about $90. Their opinion is that it is most likely ECM programming and that it would be all for free...
Now my questions are:
1) Will the custom Y-pipe void this warranty?
2) I have a new O2 sensor on its way already that I bought last week (like I knew it was going to go soon!) - should I just replace it myself and ask the dealer to reprogram the ECM?
3) Is the ECM programming really necessary?
4) Anyone with a similar experience :-) ?
THANK YOU!
I have a Budget Y-pipe, Fed spec 2K, and yesterday my SES light came on. I pulled the P0140 code from the ECM (rear O2 sensor pre-cat) and found the TSB NTB02051 for it which says to replace the O2 sensor and reprogram the ECM.
Called the dealer and they say I would be covered for 8 yr 130,000 km warranty in case it is found that ECM programming is at fault. If the sensor is faulty then I would need to pay for its replacement ($200-300) and for Consult II time which is about $90. Their opinion is that it is most likely ECM programming and that it would be all for free...
Now my questions are:
1) Will the custom Y-pipe void this warranty?
2) I have a new O2 sensor on its way already that I bought last week (like I knew it was going to go soon!) - should I just replace it myself and ask the dealer to reprogram the ECM?
3) Is the ECM programming really necessary?
4) Anyone with a similar experience :-) ?
THANK YOU!
07-26-2005, 10:33 AM
#2
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In case anyone cares and for a future reference I found my answers from a friendly guy that works at a dealership:
1) custom Y-pipe will void the warranty on emissions components 99.9996% of time
2) as the consequence of #1, it would be better to replace the sensor on your own and save the money on labor at the dealer and go to dealer just for ECM update
3) it is recommended to update ECM as it loosens the parameters for O2 sensors (wider tolerances) and as such you'll avoid future problems with O2's
4) obviously not :-P
Cheers :-)
1) custom Y-pipe will void the warranty on emissions components 99.9996% of time
2) as the consequence of #1, it would be better to replace the sensor on your own and save the money on labor at the dealer and go to dealer just for ECM update
3) it is recommended to update ECM as it loosens the parameters for O2 sensors (wider tolerances) and as such you'll avoid future problems with O2's
4) obviously not :-P
Cheers :-)
07-26-2005, 10:42 AM
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4) That is exactly what happened to me. But it happened under warranty(60k) so they reprogrammed the parameters and the light has not come on again.
The y-pipe will void the 60k warranty plus it will cost you about $140 in "labor" fees for them to install your sensor.
The y-pipe will void the 60k warranty plus it will cost you about $140 in "labor" fees for them to install your sensor.
08-02-2005, 04:09 PM
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they cant void your emissions warranty if the aftermarket part in question istn causing the failure.
since a y-pipe has nothing to do with an incorrect program in teh ECM, you should still get a reprogram convered. the cat might be a different story
since a y-pipe has nothing to do with an incorrect program in teh ECM, you should still get a reprogram convered. the cat might be a different story
08-02-2005, 06:04 PM
#5
Originally Posted by BewstAdd1ct
they cant void your emissions warranty if the aftermarket part in question istn causing the failure.
since a y-pipe has nothing to do with an incorrect program in teh ECM, you should still get a reprogram convered. the cat might be a different story
since a y-pipe has nothing to do with an incorrect program in teh ECM, you should still get a reprogram convered. the cat might be a different story
"...If emission control components are missing or have been tampered with, or the configuration of the exhaust system has been changed, the emissions warranties on this vehicle may be void."
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/warr95fs.txt
08-02-2005, 07:14 PM
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sorry, let me rephrase that...
they shouldn't void your warranty...
and since were taking shi!t out of context...
basically theyre saying that if you purchase a used vehicle, check the emissions system, if its been tampered with, the warranty may already be void.
another note, if youre just oging in for a PCM reprogram, warranty only pays like .3 hrs to do it, they arent gonna waste their time by putting your car up to check the undercar. if they go that far and then decide they dont wanna fix your car, thats time wasted by the tech, he doesnt get paid for that.
seriously, you have to **** off most dealers before theyll void your warranty. you have money, dealers want your money, they dont wanna send you away.
they shouldn't void your warranty...
and since were taking shi!t out of context...
Do the Emissions Warranties Apply to Used Vehicles?
Yes. It does not matter if you bought your vehicle new or used
from a dealer or anyone else. As long as the vehicle has not exceeded
the warranty time or mileage limitations, these warranties apply.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Before buying a used vehicle, be sure that all of
the emission control components as originally installed by the
manufacturer are present and functioning properly. If emission
control components are missing or have been tampered with, or the
configuration of the exhaust system has been changed, the emissions
warranties on this vehicle may be void. In addition, if you live in
an area with an I/M program, the vehicle will probably not pass
inspection and you will incur the expense of parts or repairs
necessary for the vehicle to pass.
Yes. It does not matter if you bought your vehicle new or used
from a dealer or anyone else. As long as the vehicle has not exceeded
the warranty time or mileage limitations, these warranties apply.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Before buying a used vehicle, be sure that all of
the emission control components as originally installed by the
manufacturer are present and functioning properly. If emission
control components are missing or have been tampered with, or the
configuration of the exhaust system has been changed, the emissions
warranties on this vehicle may be void. In addition, if you live in
an area with an I/M program, the vehicle will probably not pass
inspection and you will incur the expense of parts or repairs
necessary for the vehicle to pass.
another note, if youre just oging in for a PCM reprogram, warranty only pays like .3 hrs to do it, they arent gonna waste their time by putting your car up to check the undercar. if they go that far and then decide they dont wanna fix your car, thats time wasted by the tech, he doesnt get paid for that.
seriously, you have to **** off most dealers before theyll void your warranty. you have money, dealers want your money, they dont wanna send you away.
08-03-2005, 09:24 AM
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heres how to get it for free...
if youre close to 60K or 90K, go in, tell the advosor youre thinking about getting a 60k or whatever... but you need to take care of some problems first (the CEL). you were told it may just be a reprogramming issue and you already replaced teh o2 sensors. you wanna find out if thatll take care of the problem first, and if not youll need to see how much it costs to fix before doing the 60k.
so... you want a reprogram only under emissions warranty, which should take care of the light.. dont pay ckout time.
if the advisor thinks youll buy a 60k or 90k, you likely wont get hasseled about the pcm if youre a good salesman.
if youre close to 60K or 90K, go in, tell the advosor youre thinking about getting a 60k or whatever... but you need to take care of some problems first (the CEL). you were told it may just be a reprogramming issue and you already replaced teh o2 sensors. you wanna find out if thatll take care of the problem first, and if not youll need to see how much it costs to fix before doing the 60k.
so... you want a reprogram only under emissions warranty, which should take care of the light.. dont pay ckout time.
if the advisor thinks youll buy a 60k or 90k, you likely wont get hasseled about the pcm if youre a good salesman.
08-03-2005, 11:23 AM
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Thanks for the tip... I'm at 70K now with Budget Y-pipe... I also have reset the SES light and the service won't touch it if it not on to consider repairs under warranty (I already asked)... If I take it in with a light they'll likely ask to replace the sensor and reprogram at my cost since I tempered with it... I will change to sensor myself (already got a new one) and just pay the $50 for reprogram and get it out of the way... I think that will be the least painfull route...
08-03-2005, 12:47 PM
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okay, heres another suggestion... walk into the service dept where the techs are (i know, youre not supposed to) and find one that looks knowledgable, ask if you can throw him $20 to update your PCM. he can take the consult II out to the parking lot and do it real quick. ive made side money from time to time to program keys, change octane programs, update PCMs and diagnose other ****.
just a thought
just a thought
08-04-2005, 05:44 AM
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Well, the codes came on again P0138 and P0139 and I called a different dealer than first time and asked the warranty specialist about TSB and explained how I have a Y-pipe. She said that even though I have a custom Y, I would still be covered under warranty for ECU updates (?), so I booked an appointment for Monday. Will let you know how it went :-)
08-15-2005, 10:39 AM
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As promised here is an update: I just got back from the dealer (401 Dixie Nissan-Infinity for locals), and I came to service desk, told them how I called the last week and I have P0138 and P0139 (after P0140 call), TSB, etc. and I want them to check into it under warranty. Then the guy tells me there "may be" a $90 charge to investigate the problem if it is not covered under warranty. They check into it and find the same codes, d'oh, and tell me that my ECU has been updated at some point (possibly by the previous owner) and that it is only O2 that needs to be replaced at my cost. O2 sensors though they are emission components are only covered for 3 yrs and 60,000 km (only cat is covered for full emissions warranty). And they asked me to pay the $90 diagnostic and if I wanted them to replace the sensor for mizzely additional $300. I refused the repair as I already bought the sensor from a fellow org'er which conveniently arrived today :-) and I asked for a break on the fee since the car was in only for 15 mins to tell me something I already told them, and the guy replies that $90 is the minimum fee and is also a stardard charge for reading the codes. But he offered me a $10 break on it though. So I walk into service managers office and tell him the story and politely asked for a break on the $90 fee. He sends me away assuring me he'll do something about the charge. So hour and a half later my car is ready, oh yes, they also washed it after the code reading exercise. I came to the counter to pay and he still asks for $80 and I asked if he spoke to the manager about my inquiry and he says he did and that $80 remains. I paid, on my way out I stopped at the manager's office, he was on the phone, I gave him a smirked nod and lip movement that resembled thank you and he did not even have the decency to look me in the eyes.... Imagine how outraged and mad I was walking out of there. On the bright side, they washed my car... For $80...
08-16-2005, 06:01 AM
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Read codes, got the same P0138, P0139, P0140 and told me that my ECU has been updated at some point in the past and asked me if I want them to change my O2 sensor for additional $300...
08-17-2005, 05:28 AM
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Yeah, I replaced it yesterday afternoon. Took me about half an hour. I posted how-to in one other thread where another org'er asked how to do it... No, did not get the printout... Never thought to ask for it, I was too mad about the $90 charge to think straight :-)
08-17-2005, 04:42 PM
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is it a new sensor?
if so, id go to another dealership, throw a tech $20 or so to check and if it needs it, update the PCM. id bet the other dealer didnt do it and the threshold is too tight still. if it needs the update have him get printouts... and then go get your $80 back
its the calibration is current, it could be the sensor. its not too common for a new sensor to be bad, but i wouldnt rule it out
if so, id go to another dealership, throw a tech $20 or so to check and if it needs it, update the PCM. id bet the other dealer didnt do it and the threshold is too tight still. if it needs the update have him get printouts... and then go get your $80 back
its the calibration is current, it could be the sensor. its not too common for a new sensor to be bad, but i wouldnt rule it out
08-17-2005, 06:13 PM
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Cool thanks :-)
Guy that sold it to me claimed it to be new but the bag was opened... I asked him afew questions but he still has not responded
I'll see if I can get it done at another dealership though it may be tough to find someone not so uptight. Have you seen any of these printouts and what should I be looking for in them to see if programming is up to date?
Guy that sold it to me claimed it to be new but the bag was opened... I asked him afew questions but he still has not responded
I'll see if I can get it done at another dealership though it may be tough to find someone not so uptight. Have you seen any of these printouts and what should I be looking for in them to see if programming is up to date?
08-17-2005, 06:44 PM
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i havent seen the printouts and am not sure how they will look or how the calibration looks. if you give the tech the money, he should be able to answer any questions you have while hes running the programming.
both ford and GM programs are in part number format. Porsche uses a big long string of numbers...
either way, the tech should know.
both ford and GM programs are in part number format. Porsche uses a big long string of numbers...
either way, the tech should know.
08-17-2005, 07:01 PM
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When I looked at the TSB for this it shows only P/N's for ECMs themselves and not the programs... The ECM update procedure in TSB references download of the latest program only and does not give any more detail on it :-(
Thanks again :-) I'll try to find someone bribeable tomorrow to look into it more... Will let you know...
Thanks again :-) I'll try to find someone bribeable tomorrow to look into it more... Will let you know...
08-18-2005, 07:56 AM
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I called the same dealer I went to on Monday and asked about the SES light being on after I replaced the sensor and he tells me that the light came back on because there was a code in history and it came on because of it and that there is no real problem. All I need to do is go back to them and pay $90 again to erase the history.
Does this make sense or is he just full of it? Can I erase the history (ECM reset) myself by disconnecting the battery for a long time?
Does this make sense or is he just full of it? Can I erase the history (ECM reset) myself by disconnecting the battery for a long time?
08-18-2005, 03:16 PM
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hes full of it.
if a code gets cleared, the light will not come back on for history because the history gets cleared. you have a current (hard) fault.
yes you can erase the ECM like that, or you can follow the instructions in the how-to.
again, if theres another dealer close to you, go to it. the one youre dealing with is probably trying to cover their mistakes...
if you find that the ECM wasnt reprogrammed, theyre into it for $80 plus the rash of **** that youll be giving them plus whatever else you can get out of them.
if a code gets cleared, the light will not come back on for history because the history gets cleared. you have a current (hard) fault.
yes you can erase the ECM like that, or you can follow the instructions in the how-to.
again, if theres another dealer close to you, go to it. the one youre dealing with is probably trying to cover their mistakes...
if you find that the ECM wasnt reprogrammed, theyre into it for $80 plus the rash of **** that youll be giving them plus whatever else you can get out of them.
09-17-2005, 12:56 PM
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Hi folks, sorry to bug you again about this 
I replaced the O2 and disconnected the battery for >24 hrs which is supposed to clear the codes. Everything was fine for about a month now but the SES came on again today with P0140 code...
I would some help with this, pleeeease :-) Do I need to reprogram the ECM perhaps, is it may be something else that could be throwing the code (a faulty MAF)? Anyone with similar experience?
I replaced the O2 and disconnected the battery for >24 hrs which is supposed to clear the codes. Everything was fine for about a month now but the SES came on again today with P0140 code... I would some help with this, pleeeease :-) Do I need to reprogram the ECM perhaps, is it may be something else that could be throwing the code (a faulty MAF)? Anyone with similar experience?
09-19-2005, 10:44 AM
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The reason the light came on is though you wiped the memory of any codes from the ECU. You also erased the changed emissions parameters that were reprogrammed into the ECU, so the computer throws the code for the same reason you took the car in the first time.
09-19-2005, 11:16 AM
#31
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Hm, there should be a set of default parameters for emissions so when you reset the ECU. I don't think that reset would change the operating parameters. Those should be hard coded...
09-19-2005, 05:00 PM
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did you ever get the reprogram?!
furthermore, its pretty easy for a new sensor to be bad. it doesnt happen often, but it happens. is this a new sensor, or one that was sold to you in the 'open bag'? that one you posted about earlier?
furthermore, its pretty easy for a new sensor to be bad. it doesnt happen often, but it happens. is this a new sensor, or one that was sold to you in the 'open bag'? that one you posted about earlier?
09-19-2005, 07:53 PM
#39
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I used the open bag one... I'm sort of assuming it is good... Did not get it reprogrammed... I am trying to make a side deal with one of the stealership mechs to do the reprogram on the side... I'm supposed to arrange something tomorrow... I talked to another dealership parts guy this evening too and he suggested that I reprogram it as well as the mechs at his place do the replacement and reprogram in most cases... Will try to get it done on the side and will report the status...
09-22-2005, 10:11 AM
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Well, here is an update, I made an arrangement with one mech to meet with him on Saturday to update the ECM on the side. Yesterday, when I started the car the SES light was off. It was on for 3 days prior to that. I drove yesterday and today and SES did not come back on... What is going on here?