suspension trashed...need advice/thoughts
10-20-2005, 03:49 PM
#1
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suspension trashed...need advice/thoughts
Well today coming down the highway doing about 70 in rush hour (thick traffic) I come over a small hill and right in the middle of my lane is a 6' long 4x4 piece of wood (like a fencepost) sitting across the lane. I had noplace to go with cars on both sides, and managed to swerve enough only to hit it with my right front (kicked it out of the way of the rear). BANG! x 10
Anyhow, pulled over immediately fearing a flat....no such luck. Tire was fine, rim seemed fine, but something is way out of whack with the suspension.
Took the wheel off (in my business suit, no less) and control arms, tie rods, etc LOOK fine. Put the full-size spare on, and can see it better:
- serious toe-in (alignment should fix)
- serious negative camber (??)
My thought is that, aside from the alignment being knocked out, possibly a bent strut (figures it's gotta be a $$ illumina).
Tomorrow I'm going to swap in one of Joel (puppetmaster's) OEM struts and see if that fixes the camber issue....
if not, throw out some thoughts/suggestions on how to tell what else is bent. From my 10-15 minute visual inspection all looks fine (control arms, bush pin links, etc). I have a tie bar on, and it's not bent, so I know the bush pin is ok, and I wouldn't think a big piece of wood would have enough force to bend the lower control arm itself (as perhaps a concrete curb would)...
any thoughts?
Anyhow, pulled over immediately fearing a flat....no such luck. Tire was fine, rim seemed fine, but something is way out of whack with the suspension.
Took the wheel off (in my business suit, no less) and control arms, tie rods, etc LOOK fine. Put the full-size spare on, and can see it better:
- serious toe-in (alignment should fix)
- serious negative camber (??)
My thought is that, aside from the alignment being knocked out, possibly a bent strut (figures it's gotta be a $$ illumina).
Tomorrow I'm going to swap in one of Joel (puppetmaster's) OEM struts and see if that fixes the camber issue....
if not, throw out some thoughts/suggestions on how to tell what else is bent. From my 10-15 minute visual inspection all looks fine (control arms, bush pin links, etc). I have a tie bar on, and it's not bent, so I know the bush pin is ok, and I wouldn't think a big piece of wood would have enough force to bend the lower control arm itself (as perhaps a concrete curb would)...
any thoughts?
10-20-2005, 04:00 PM
#3
Axle bent? Tie rod usually gets bent pretty easy. the control arm could be bent a few deg but it won't be easily see by the eye. You could put a straight edge on the strut to see if it's bent. But IMHO other stuff bends before that will. maybe the ball joint under the strut (connected to the control arm) bent down?
Sorry to hear about this though.
Sorry to hear about this though.
10-20-2005, 04:20 PM
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no, I just hit it hard and no idea where the wood went after that. Tomorrow I'm going to leave work early and probably pick up the lower balljoint and a tie rod end from a dealer and then borrow Joel's strut...we'll do the strut first and see if that's the problem. then I'll do a ghetto alignment (old-school style) before getting an electronic alignment.
Jeff, thanks for the thoughts...I've had my 5th gen shop manual up for about an hour now trying to figure out where to go from here...I don't think it's a drive axle, since it doesn't feel out of balance or any vibration under power (I drove 10 miles home at up to 45mph and no vibration, just hard pull to the left)
Jeff, thanks for the thoughts...I've had my 5th gen shop manual up for about an hour now trying to figure out where to go from here...I don't think it's a drive axle, since it doesn't feel out of balance or any vibration under power (I drove 10 miles home at up to 45mph and no vibration, just hard pull to the left)
10-20-2005, 04:52 PM
#8
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Usually the inner tie rod would bent before the tie rod end would. Unless damage is in the ball socket.
Cast iron knuckles can also bend. If it did, you'll see an area where the surface area of rust flaked off at the bend.
If alignment is out after an impact, usually parts have to be replaced. Allowances for changing angles usually aren't that much. I don't even kow if you can adjust caster or camber on a Maxima without modification.
Cast iron knuckles can also bend. If it did, you'll see an area where the surface area of rust flaked off at the bend.
If alignment is out after an impact, usually parts have to be replaced. Allowances for changing angles usually aren't that much. I don't even kow if you can adjust caster or camber on a Maxima without modification.
10-20-2005, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Stewpid
Usually the inner tie rod would bent before the tie rod end would. Unless damage is in the ball socket.
Cast iron knuckles can also bend. If it did, you'll see an area where the surface area of rust flaked off at the bend.
If alignment is out after an impact, usually parts have to be replaced. Allowances for changing angles usually aren't that much. I don't even kow if you can adjust caster or camber on a Maxima without modification.
Cast iron knuckles can also bend. If it did, you'll see an area where the surface area of rust flaked off at the bend.
If alignment is out after an impact, usually parts have to be replaced. Allowances for changing angles usually aren't that much. I don't even kow if you can adjust caster or camber on a Maxima without modification.
worse comes to worst, I'll hit up a junkyard and just replace the whole suspension assembly.
Thank God I have my wife's Mazda to use for a few days....
10-20-2005, 06:40 PM
#12
I think Jeff pretty much said all there is to say about this.... but I guess on the bright side if ya do have to replace the LCA, you could think about getting some LCA bushings from ES put in when ya do the swap.
I should have time to stop by with the strut tomorrow and to give you a hand with all that.
I should have time to stop by with the strut tomorrow and to give you a hand with all that.
10-20-2005, 07:38 PM
#13
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hmm... well, the axle should be alright, it doesnt affect alignment, and is essentially 'floating'...
im leaning towards strut as well. if it were to bend inwards, it would create negative camber and toe in. you should have it up on a lift/jackstands and give it a thorough inspection. usually you can see a control arm bend, the metal will begin to kink. its designed to take the blow, rather than the subframe/unibody.
a bent tie rod wouldnt cause the camber, but i wouldnt rule it out without taking a good look at it.
good luck with this, and take pics
im leaning towards strut as well. if it were to bend inwards, it would create negative camber and toe in. you should have it up on a lift/jackstands and give it a thorough inspection. usually you can see a control arm bend, the metal will begin to kink. its designed to take the blow, rather than the subframe/unibody.
a bent tie rod wouldnt cause the camber, but i wouldnt rule it out without taking a good look at it.
good luck with this, and take pics
10-20-2005, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by GBAUER
well, time to upgrade to a 5.5 gen, I guess....
I bet you can convince your wife if you try hard enough.
I bet you can convince your wife if you try hard enough.
when I "upgrade" it will most likely be European....but that won't be for a while (still owe 10k on the max)
10-21-2005, 06:01 AM
#18
with enough force the upper strut housing could have shifted. that's what happened to kimberly's car. now her camber is out of specs, this was from running over a median, which is close to a 4x4 peice of wood at any speed. the best way to correct camber for cheap is a camber bolt. 15 bucks, i can give you a place in my local area if you need one. i've already bought 2, and it will get your car back into specs.
if you bent the control are, where the bend is you will see flakes in the paint or a kink as previously mentioned. your steering knuckle won't bend, it's cast iron so it's going to break or shatter. i found that our strut housing can bend/shift easily with enough force.
i've looked at all the things you've looked at also, remember my "construction zone thread" where i bent my rim? this has been the most major incident i've had, good luck to you with yours.
if you bent the control are, where the bend is you will see flakes in the paint or a kink as previously mentioned. your steering knuckle won't bend, it's cast iron so it's going to break or shatter. i found that our strut housing can bend/shift easily with enough force.
i've looked at all the things you've looked at also, remember my "construction zone thread" where i bent my rim? this has been the most major incident i've had, good luck to you with yours.
10-21-2005, 10:18 AM
#19
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after close inspection, all components looked ok, so I pulled the spring./strut assembly and there it is - looks like the bottom area (where the bracket is), is bent about 5 degrees. So...will be swapping in an OEM strut this afternoon to make sure, get alignment and see if all is well. If so, will find another illumina someplace to replace the bent one.
cross your fingers for me!
cross your fingers for me!
10-21-2005, 01:20 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
The bracket where the suspension bolts to? Bend it back?
Long story short - with Joel's 02 OEM strut on the front, the camber is back to normal, and alignment "looks" good. I will get a new Illumina from Corey within a few days and put that in, then get a full alignment.
I'm going to replace both lower control arms soon too, but that will be for performance reasons (bushings) not damage. The LCA on there now looks to be fine.
Only issue right now is that the 02 strut has a different brakeline bracket than the illumina, so I had to ghetto-rig it a little bit ;0
Thanks for the help guys!
10-21-2005, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Deckdout2
did you have any vibrations in your steering wheel from driving after all this occurred?
Back on the road, my 18 is back on...after close inspection I couldn't find ANY damage to the tire or rim (??) amazingly, and there is no vibration or anything at up to 50mph (need to go do a highway test tomorrow), so the wheel/rim/hub/bearing all seem to be fine.
10-21-2005, 01:26 PM
#24
Originally Posted by irish44j
no vibrations, but I had to drive with the wheel 1/4 turn to the right to go straight because of the off alignment.
Back on the road, my 18 is back on...after close inspection I couldn't find ANY damage to the tire or rim (??) amazingly, and there is no vibration or anything at up to 50mph (need to go do a highway test tomorrow), so the wheel/rim/hub/bearing all seem to be fine.
Back on the road, my 18 is back on...after close inspection I couldn't find ANY damage to the tire or rim (??) amazingly, and there is no vibration or anything at up to 50mph (need to go do a highway test tomorrow), so the wheel/rim/hub/bearing all seem to be fine.
10-21-2005, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SEmy2K2go
Josh, that sucks man. Glad that it appears you've figured everything out. What a PITA though. I'm sure you were quite frustrated as would I have been.
BTW, thanks to Joel (puppetmaster) for bringing over his OEM strut for me to borrow until the new one comes in...
and to Jason (soonerfan) for rolling over to smoke cigarettes and provide the usual brute force when needed.
10-21-2005, 02:35 PM
#27
Originally Posted by irish44j
definitely frustrating...but I did get to zip around in the wife's Mazda for a day - which really makes the Maxima feel like a boat now.
BTW, thanks to Joel (puppetmaster) for bringing over his OEM strut for me to borrow until the new one comes in...
and to Jason (soonerfan) for rolling over to smoke cigarettes and provide the usual brute force when needed.
BTW, thanks to Joel (puppetmaster) for bringing over his OEM strut for me to borrow until the new one comes in...
and to Jason (soonerfan) for rolling over to smoke cigarettes and provide the usual brute force when needed.
Just kidding... you're welcome btw, glad we could be of assistance. Now hook me up with some stuff from Redlinemax...
11-01-2005, 08:43 AM
#30
after this thread, i think i'm going to check and change mine too since it's pulling towards the passenger side when the wheel is straight.
Josh, it might be time to upgrade to some coilovers for you especially since you participate in a lot of auto-x events.
Josh, it might be time to upgrade to some coilovers for you especially since you participate in a lot of auto-x events.
11-01-2005, 12:26 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by NisMoN00B
after this thread, i think i'm going to check and change mine too since it's pulling towards the passenger side when the wheel is straight.
Josh, it might be time to upgrade to some coilovers for you especially since you participate in a lot of auto-x events.
Josh, it might be time to upgrade to some coilovers for you especially since you participate in a lot of auto-x events.
springs/struts are fine for autocross anyhow.
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