5th Gen Suspension Thread
#1
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5th Gen Suspension Thread
This thread is oriented towards making our Maximas faster in the corners, more fun to drive, and more comfortable during city driving.
Please note, this thread is NOT intended for discussing prices or retailers of suspension products.
Note: Please visit Suspensions and Brakes section if you are looking for more advanced handling information.
I'll start off by posting a list of documents/threads with information that's essential to know when modifying suspension:
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
LINK TO THE OFFICIAL COILOVER THREAD: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=331742
Reviews of different suspension setups by maxima.org members:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=344309
Spring popularity thread:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=205370
Shock popularity thread:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=205365
Springs/shocks information that is usually not advertised:
http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...6&postcount=94
How rear sway bar effects handling on a Maxima:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=308884
Why Maxima will never handle as well as BMW (or how to make Maxima handle better without decreasing ride quality) http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...29&postcount=3
If COMFORT were your sole goal:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=359419
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Basic but very useful guide to choosing springs and shocks:
http://www.innerbean.com/housecor/sp..._decision.html
This website describes almost every suspension mod:
http://maxmods.dyndns.org/index.php?MaximaHandling
NOTE: while this website in indeed very helpful, information provided there can be edited by any visitor, thus it can not be trusted 100%
///////////////////////////////////////////////
Suspension secrets -part 1 (modifying & tuning FWD vehicles)
http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/art...sp_01_0202.pdf
Making It Stick Part 1
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/te...t_1/index.html
How sway bars work, and why people use them
http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/swaybars.htm
Handling Tuning Table
http://turnfast.com/tech_handling/ha...ingtable.shtml
Please note, this thread is NOT intended for discussing prices or retailers of suspension products.
Note: Please visit Suspensions and Brakes section if you are looking for more advanced handling information.
I'll start off by posting a list of documents/threads with information that's essential to know when modifying suspension:
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
LINK TO THE OFFICIAL COILOVER THREAD: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=331742
Reviews of different suspension setups by maxima.org members:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=344309
Spring popularity thread:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=205370
Shock popularity thread:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=205365
Springs/shocks information that is usually not advertised:
http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...6&postcount=94
How rear sway bar effects handling on a Maxima:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=308884
Why Maxima will never handle as well as BMW (or how to make Maxima handle better without decreasing ride quality) http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...29&postcount=3
If COMFORT were your sole goal:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=359419
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Basic but very useful guide to choosing springs and shocks:
http://www.innerbean.com/housecor/sp..._decision.html
This website describes almost every suspension mod:
http://maxmods.dyndns.org/index.php?MaximaHandling
NOTE: while this website in indeed very helpful, information provided there can be edited by any visitor, thus it can not be trusted 100%
///////////////////////////////////////////////
Suspension secrets -part 1 (modifying & tuning FWD vehicles)
http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/art...sp_01_0202.pdf
Making It Stick Part 1
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/te...t_1/index.html
How sway bars work, and why people use them
http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/swaybars.htm
Handling Tuning Table
http://turnfast.com/tech_handling/ha...ingtable.shtml
Last edited by DrKlop; 04-15-2008 at 10:54 AM. Reason: added a note, not to discuss prices, since there were too many "where can I get this for cheaper" posts
#2
FRIGGEN sweet info!. Thats what I thought. I thought the H-techs were pretty stiff even though people have commented they ride really well. That enforces my belief that the H-techs may be the best choice for what I'm lookin for.
But H&R doesnt seem to release their spring rates so they could be an even better choice
But H&R doesnt seem to release their spring rates so they could be an even better choice
#4
Nice work, ya beat me to it... STICKY this bish...
Btw, got info on KYB struts? GR-2s and AGXs? I was hoping for compression and rebound damping rates for each setting of the Illuminas and AGXs....
Btw, got info on KYB struts? GR-2s and AGXs? I was hoping for compression and rebound damping rates for each setting of the Illuminas and AGXs....
#5
Aaaaa not to acurate.
I don't think it's that accurate. They took a picture from Housecor's site and placed it for H&R drop, while it's realy progress, and that's a big difference.
So I don't know if we can trust the rest of the info, but anyway sounds like a good stiky.
So I don't know if we can trust the rest of the info, but anyway sounds like a good stiky.
#6
There is lots of conflicting info on this board though. What I originally thought was that H&R was the best for comfort. I was originally gonna go with the H&R but than heard I would probably get a little better handling and stiffer ride from H-Techs (as well as a much more even drop) but one of the websites you listed said H&Rs would have better handling than H-Techs becauase of their superior R&D.
And the site recommended Koni Yellows but it seems like no one on this board runs those struts. It seems like Iluminas are by far the most popular.
Has anyone done a back to back comparison of springs? We should really get some cars together with different setups so that people can see for themselves which setup they like the most.
And the site recommended Koni Yellows but it seems like no one on this board runs those struts. It seems like Iluminas are by far the most popular.
Has anyone done a back to back comparison of springs? We should really get some cars together with different setups so that people can see for themselves which setup they like the most.
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Originally Posted by Puppetmaster
Nice work, ya beat me to it... STICKY this bish...
Btw, got info on KYB struts? GR-2s and AGXs? I was hoping for compression and rebound damping rates for each setting of the Illuminas and AGXs....
Btw, got info on KYB struts? GR-2s and AGXs? I was hoping for compression and rebound damping rates for each setting of the Illuminas and AGXs....
BTW: KYB damping force values are posted here: http://maxmods.dyndns.org/index.php?...KybAgxSettings Although it is not stated whether it’s for the 5th or 4th gen.
how exactly should I "sticky" this?
#9
Originally Posted by DrKlop
Well, perhaps I have to finish the job… hopefully there will be an update tomorrow.
BTW: KYB damping force values are posted here: http://maxmods.dyndns.org/index.php?...KybAgxSettings Although it is not stated whether it’s for the 5th or 4th gen.
how exactly should I "sticky" this?
BTW: KYB damping force values are posted here: http://maxmods.dyndns.org/index.php?...KybAgxSettings Although it is not stated whether it’s for the 5th or 4th gen.
how exactly should I "sticky" this?
Send Tim (semy2k2go) a PM to see what he thinks; if it is Sticky worthy or not, and if it is, he will add it to the FAQs.
#10
Originally Posted by sciff5
There is lots of conflicting info on this board though. What I originally thought was that H&R was the best for comfort. I was originally gonna go with the H&R but than heard I would probably get a little better handling and stiffer ride from H-Techs (as well as a much more even drop) but one of the websites you listed said H&Rs would have better handling than H-Techs becauase of their superior R&D.
It also hard to compare which springs "handle" better since everyone drives in different conditions and are of different ability. The tires, struts, and remainder of the suspension set-up are additional important considerations to take into account.
You need to figure out what works best for you and not be overly dependent on the opinions of others (or at least be careful on who and what you listen to), either by checking out others' rides or just spending the money on trial and error.
Originally Posted by sciff5
Has anyone done a back to back comparison of springs? We should really get some cars together with different setups so that people can see for themselves which setup they like the most.
#11
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Originally Posted by shurik
I don't think it's that accurate. They took a picture from Housecor's site and placed it for H&R drop, while it's realy progress, and that's a big difference.
So I don't know if we can trust the rest of the info, but anyway sounds like a good stiky.
So I don't know if we can trust the rest of the info, but anyway sounds like a good stiky.
#13
Originally Posted by Puppetmaster
I've posted this many times before: ride comfort is all based on personal opinion. What may be the "best for comfort" to one person may not be for another person.
It also hard to compare which springs "handle" better since everyone drives in different conditions and are of different ability. The tires, struts, and remainder of the suspension set-up are additional important considerations to take into account.
You need to figure out what works best for you and not be overly dependent on the opinions of others (or at least be careful on who and what you listen to), either by checking out others' rides or just spending the money on trial and error.
I'll be swapping out my Progress springs to H-techs soon and will post my opinion on how those 2 compare with Illuminas when the time comes.
It also hard to compare which springs "handle" better since everyone drives in different conditions and are of different ability. The tires, struts, and remainder of the suspension set-up are additional important considerations to take into account.
You need to figure out what works best for you and not be overly dependent on the opinions of others (or at least be careful on who and what you listen to), either by checking out others' rides or just spending the money on trial and error.
I'll be swapping out my Progress springs to H-techs soon and will post my opinion on how those 2 compare with Illuminas when the time comes.
This is why we should get a few cars together with different suspension setups. This would allow everyone to ride in others cars to see if they like the feel of that setup. That would really be the only way someone could make up their mind for themselves
#14
Originally Posted by sciff5
This is why we should get a few cars together with different suspension setups.
#15
Originally Posted by Puppetmaster
I've posted this many times before: ride comfort is all based on personal opinion. What may be the "best for comfort" to one person may not be for another person.
It also hard to compare which springs "handle" better since everyone drives in different conditions and are of different ability. The tires, struts, and remainder of the suspension set-up are additional important considerations to take into account.
You need to figure out what works best for you and not be overly dependent on the opinions of others (or at least be careful on who and what you listen to), either by checking out others' rides or just spending the money on trial and error.
I'll be swapping out my Progress springs to H-techs soon and will post my opinion on how those 2 compare with Illuminas when the time comes.
It also hard to compare which springs "handle" better since everyone drives in different conditions and are of different ability. The tires, struts, and remainder of the suspension set-up are additional important considerations to take into account.
You need to figure out what works best for you and not be overly dependent on the opinions of others (or at least be careful on who and what you listen to), either by checking out others' rides or just spending the money on trial and error.
I'll be swapping out my Progress springs to H-techs soon and will post my opinion on how those 2 compare with Illuminas when the time comes.
#16
Originally Posted by Puppetmaster
You mean an organized event? You could post in your local forums to organize a local meet for that, I'm sure people would find it useful.
#17
Originally Posted by DrKlop
While researching what spring/shock combo I should get for my car, I’ve discovered that there’s just not enough information available on Maxima.org and linked websites to properly choose the correct setup.
http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...&postcount=276
#18
on OEM rates, I've been trying to find those out.
I'm not sure the TEIN High-Techs are progressive...I have them and they ride pretty stiff in my opinion. I think progressive springs would be softer on little bumps.
The front don't look progressive to me:
The rear look progressive, maybe:
I assumed that because TEIN only gives one rate for the front and one for the rear that they were NOT progressive but please correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm not sure the TEIN High-Techs are progressive...I have them and they ride pretty stiff in my opinion. I think progressive springs would be softer on little bumps.
The front don't look progressive to me:
The rear look progressive, maybe:
I assumed that because TEIN only gives one rate for the front and one for the rear that they were NOT progressive but please correct me if I'm wrong.
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I still think that H-techs are progressive because 180 lbs/in is just too stiff for constant rate. Everyone knows that Eibachs are relatively stiff springs but their initial rate is only 139 and the secondary rate is 188 which is only 8 lbs/in stiffer than known rate of H-techs.
I also remember reading somewhere that progressive rate spring might still look like it's a constant rate spring.
BTW: I think it's next to impossible to find out stock spring rate. I can't even think of the place where this info is available. The only way to find out is probably to use some kind of measurement tool.
I also remember reading somewhere that progressive rate spring might still look like it's a constant rate spring.
BTW: I think it's next to impossible to find out stock spring rate. I can't even think of the place where this info is available. The only way to find out is probably to use some kind of measurement tool.
#20
Originally Posted by DrKlop
I still think that H-techs are progressive because 180 lbs/in is just too stiff for constant rate. Everyone knows that Eibachs are relatively stiff springs but their initial rate is only 139 and the secondary rate is 188 which is only 8 lbs/in stiffer than known rate of H-techs.
I also remember reading somewhere that progressive rate spring might still look like it's a constant rate spring.
BTW: I think it's next to impossible to find out stock spring rate. I can't even think of the place where this info is available. The only way to find out is probably to use some kind of measurement tool.
I also remember reading somewhere that progressive rate spring might still look like it's a constant rate spring.
BTW: I think it's next to impossible to find out stock spring rate. I can't even think of the place where this info is available. The only way to find out is probably to use some kind of measurement tool.
I am just guessing here
Also from what everyone has said H-techs are progressive
BTW Vquick how does your max handle and have you tried any other suspension setups to compare to the H-techs?
I am really curious about your thoughts on this spring because I am thinkin of buying them
#21
Originally Posted by sciff5
BTW Vquick how does your max handle and have you tried any other suspension setups to compare to the H-techs?
I am really curious about your thoughts on this spring because I am thinkin of buying them
I am really curious about your thoughts on this spring because I am thinkin of buying them
#22
btw, you can convert KG/MM into lbs/in by multiplying by 55.8. So 4.5 kg/mm*55.8 = 251.1 lbs/in, and 251 lbs/in divided by 55.8 is 4.5.
So for Tein H: 178.56 lbs/in front/ 284.58 lbs/in rear
Tein S: 200.88 lbs/in front; 267.84 lbs/in rear
So for Tein H: 178.56 lbs/in front/ 284.58 lbs/in rear
Tein S: 200.88 lbs/in front; 267.84 lbs/in rear
#23
Why are people saying the Tein H rides better than the Tein S? It would only ride better in the front, as the springrates are softer than Tein S in the front, but the rear is stiffer. I'm sure the back seat passengers would disagree.
#24
Originally Posted by yofmatt
Why are people saying the Tein H rides better than the Tein S? It would only ride better in the front, as the springrates are softer than Tein S in the front, but the rear is stiffer. I'm sure the back seat passengers would disagree.
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Originally Posted by Puppetmaster
I was hoping for compression and rebound damping rates for each setting of the Illuminas...
#29
Wait a second, I thought springs more or less affected long term responses like body roll and accelerating/decelerating weight distribution and Shock/struts effect quick or short term responses like bumps.
#31
Originally Posted by M1RAG3
is anyone riding "Maxspeed" springs (drop 1.4 f / 1.3r ) on their 5th Gen?
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=281194
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=390183
http://www.innerbean.com/housecor/sp..._decision.html
Please don't ***** this thread and please read around some before posting.
#32
So by looking at the chart...
Originally Posted by DrKlop
Spring rates:
Eibach Pro: Front: 139-188 lbs/in Rear: 194-295-346 lbs/in
Tein H-tech: Front: 180 lbs/in Rear: 290 lbs/in
Tein S-tech: Front: 200 lbs/in Rear: 270 lbs/in
Progress Technology: Front : 165 lbs/in Rear : 250 lbs/in
H&R tech department refused to provide their spring rates.
Maxspeed Performance does not respond to my e-mails.
Note: Tein and Progress provided only one spring rate for their progressive springs.
And did anybody find out OEM spring rates?
#33
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Originally Posted by shurik
So by looking at the chart the PROGRESS springs are the softest in the front from the rest. Would that be correct? Some people say that the progress drop is too bumpy though. Can anybody explain this? Anyone?
And did anybody find out OEM spring rates?
And did anybody find out OEM spring rates?
One, is that this rate is not sufficient enough for the car to avoid hitting bumpstops on every other pothole.
Another possibility is that initial spring rate (which we don't know) is actually too stiff for a comfortable ride.
Hopefully someone with Progress will be able to tell us the real cause.
#34
The reason why H&R's didn't provide their info...
Did some of you guys who did Eibach vs. H&R springs comperison, notice that the front H&R springs are a whole 1 inch shorter then the Eibachs front springs (when you compare them side by side). That is so weird, because H&Rs would still be higher in the front then the Eibachs when they are actually on the car, and H&Rs are more comfortable for some reason. And still the front won't drop to the proper hight it should, even if their front spring rate # is supposedly lower.
I think maybe that's why they're not providing the rates for us, because theres something with their springs that they don't want other manufacturers to know.
Does anyone know what I mean...?
I think maybe that's why they're not providing the rates for us, because theres something with their springs that they don't want other manufacturers to know.
Does anyone know what I mean...?
#35
Originally Posted by Puppetmaster
Yes.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=281194
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=390183
http://www.innerbean.com/housecor/sp..._decision.html
Please don't ***** this thread and please read around some before posting.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=281194
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=390183
http://www.innerbean.com/housecor/sp..._decision.html
Please don't ***** this thread and please read around some before posting.
#36
So does anyone know what I mean???
Originally Posted by shurik
Did some of you guys who did Eibach vs. H&R springs comperison, notice that the front H&R springs are a whole 1 inch shorter then the Eibachs front springs (when you compare them side by side). That is so weird, because H&Rs would still be higher in the front then the Eibachs when they are actually on the car, and H&Rs are more comfortable even if their springs are shorter. And still the front won't drop to the proper hight it should, even if their front spring rate # is supposedly lower, sence once again it's a more confortable ride over bumps compare to Eibach.
I think maybe that's why they're not providing the rates for us, because theres something with their springs that they don't want other manufacturers to know.
Does anyone know what I mean...?
I think maybe that's why they're not providing the rates for us, because theres something with their springs that they don't want other manufacturers to know.
Does anyone know what I mean...?
#37
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I don't think they are hiding anything. If other manufactures wanted to find out the specs of H&Rs they can easily do that by simply testing them. They can't hide anything from pros, they can only prevent us (consumers) from knowing it. It's probably just their stupid marketing policy.
#38
Originally Posted by DrKlop
I can think of two possibilities:
One, is that this rate is not sufficient enough for the car to avoid hitting bumpstops on every other pothole.
Another possibility is that initial spring rate (which we don't know) is actually too stiff for a comfortable ride.
Hopefully someone with Progress will be able to tell us the real cause.
One, is that this rate is not sufficient enough for the car to avoid hitting bumpstops on every other pothole.
Another possibility is that initial spring rate (which we don't know) is actually too stiff for a comfortable ride.
Hopefully someone with Progress will be able to tell us the real cause.
This may be my opinion, but the fact that I was able to use the different Illumina settings to figure this out gives me a somewhat solid basis for my conclusions. If y'all have any specific questions, post em or PM me because this is all I have time for now.