6SpeedTA95

I just ordered a strut tower brace and will do sway bars pretty soon. Or at least a rear sway bar, but there's no love on this site for front sway bars. Is it just unnecessary? I think the progress bars are the one(s) I'd get unless you guys suggest otherwise.

Gapp

iTrader: (3)

Do it man. It's gonna stiffen up the front a little, plus looks bad azz.

6SpeedTA95

How do you see the sway bar? I'm talking about a SWAY bar, not strut tower brace. I'm already getting a strut tower brace, but my experience has been sway bars are virtually invisible no?

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

There is NO aftermarket FSB available for the 5G maxima.....the only upgrade for that area is to put the 23mm SE FSB onto a GXE/GLE (which comes stock with a 22mm bar), and to install poly bushings on the FSB (Energy Suspension).

6SpeedTA95

Thats wierd, I've seen to websites advertising front and rear sway bars...must be likeyou said a 23mm for the front...

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

what sites? I would love a stiffer front sway, buthave never found one.

Also, you should check out:

http://www.blehmco.com/suspension.htm

stage I or II lower tie bar....works wonders

6SpeedTA95

Thats wayyy cool, I just looked at the two websites the front sway bars were for 89-94 cars, sorry for the confusion...

The stage1/2 look good but I wonder about ground clearance especially since we visit the inlaws which require driving down gravel/dirt roads

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

I've had mine of for almost 2 years now...only scraped it once, and that was when straddling a low curb. It depends on what springs you're on...I'm about to change my Maxspeeds to Progress, but don't expect to scrape much/at all.

the ltb goes directly between the wheels, so the only time you'd scrape is if the road has an extremely high "crown" to it, or maybe on really high raised manhole covers...

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

here's the LTB height back when i was on stock springs



this is with the maxspeed springs:

LA02MAX

iTrader: (3)

trust me on this...the benefits FAR outweigh the drawbacks....the road i live on is EXTREMELY uneven and the only point i thought i would scrape the LTB on is where there's a filled pothole that's still about 6 inches deep on the right side of the road...to check i went over it slowly, and it didn't scrape...i'm on h-techs btw, which are really low in the front...i wouldn't worry about it...

6SpeedTA95

That looks pretty good, what'd it do for your steering feel? For front wheel drive the maxima isn't bad...and I'd suspect something like that makes it much better.

LA02MAX

iTrader: (3)

i can't even describe it....i think that the LTB did the most for my suspension (even more than my h-techs and illuminas)...the steering response is greatly increased, the ride is much smoother, and there are no dash rattles anymore!

6SpeedTA95

Hmmm...ok, I ordered a strut tower brace today, I'm gonna get a rsb and sts then I'll start looking into getting one of these

chr0nos

iTrader: (1)

i will be getting a stage 2 from matt soon, and getting rid of my stage 1. i dont knwo which one you wanted to get, but if you want a used stage1, its yours for $25+shipping.

6SpeedTA95

Hmm...that doesn't sound too bad at all...as the time gets closer shoot me a PM

qballjr13

How much better/tighter does the Stage II make it compared to the Stage I? Street driving...not autocrossing

n3985

iTrader: (36)

If there is no HUGE dif between stage I and II, I'll take this offer.

orlnd0

have you guys checked out www.warpspeedperformance.com? they have sub-frame connectors, anyone have any experience with those?
Orlando

6SpeedTA95

I have experience with SFC's just not on the maxima. On all the cars I've driven before and after SFC's the difference was pretty pronounced. They REALLY cut down on chassis flex and as a result cars seem to stay tighter longer.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

If you guys could find an aftermarket front sway bar, that would be ideal. Maxima fwd with the engine/tranny hanging out there really needs it. I put one on my 3 gen and it was great. Might want to ask Progress or Suspension Techniques if they have anything

chr0nos

iTrader: (1)

i can't quantify the difference b/w stage1 and stage2 bars. irish and matt both said there is more stiffness when cornering or autox with the stage2, but nobody can put any numbers on that.

n3985

iTrader: (36)

I don't auto-x, so I guess I don't need Stage II. Well? Want to sell?

chr0nos

iTrader: (1)

i did not mean to turn this into a classifieds thread. i will be swapping stage1 for stage2 in a month or so, and will post an actual fs post. i have this thread bookmarked, and will also contact all the interested parties when i have it off my car. thanks for the interest.

6SpeedTA95

I'd appreciate a PM or an IM when the time comes...thanks

03maxima1

iTrader: (13)

PM sent...........

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

yeah, they have subframe connectors

if you feel like waiting about a year for them to be made, if ever...

chr0nos

iTrader: (1)

so, there still is no good alternative to warspspeed for sfcs? i know serveral people were looking into getting measurments to take to their local shops.

6SpeedTA95

I lost faith in warp speed with the comment "you wanna take corners that are meant for 30 to 35mph at 65 or 70mph? You might need a set of these"

SFC's don't make that big of a difference. A 35mph corner is basically a 90 degree corner on a 4 lane road. You wont be able to go 70 on a similar corner...I dunno that comment just made

Norm Peterson

Most of the time, a stiffer front sta-bar will increase understeer even though there is less roll. More lateral load transfer up front = less front lateral grip, and that's where you already need more. It's true that your dynamic camber situation improves (due to the reduced roll), but the increase in grip due to better camber is usually more than offset by the LLTD effect. It is possible to have flatter cornering in any given turn with less ultimate cornering g potential.

In a nutshell, that (and the typical installation hassle) is why there isn't much in the way of aftermarket front sta-bars for any FWD vehicles.

If you really think you need more roll stiffness up front, stiffer springs are a better way to go.

Norm

6SpeedTA95

Thanks for the post Norm...I know front sway bars will increase understeer, and there are none available so its kind of a moot point. I've got a strut tower brace on order, when I get paid the 15th I will order the STS and rear sway bar.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I agree with your theory, but I disagree that the maxima doesn't need a stiffer sway bar up front. I used to think the same as you. But when I put my sway bar on my 3-gen, it eliminated the severe front end dive that all maxima experience when turning. Allowing the front to work harder, also transfered more work to the rear, letting the whole suspension work together. VS having each corner dive in, upsetting the rest of the suspension.

I also disagree that using stiffer springs is the answer. Stiff springs will just make the ride that much harsher all the time. Where the swaybar will only increase harshness when one tire hits a bump and the other doesn't. If both wheels hit a bump, then there is no increase in harshness.

doublea

iTrader: (7)

I had to removed Matt's lower tie bar (2) it was scrapping a lot, but my car is quite low, I barely have 2 inches of ground clearance. If you are not running coilover you should be all fine, I mean the LTB2 is a must to have.
I had the LTB2 for about a month but man this car was litterally on rail. It was a pretty thrilling experience, I might re-install the bar soon but this time I'm going to raise the car 1-1 1/2 inche that should give me a better clearance.

doublea

iTrader: (7)

I totally agree with you. I've driven my cousin's gle max, the car is bone stock but what a difference compare with my max, of course it's not a good comparison because all the suspension mods I have give me a net advantage. It shouldn't be that much of a big deal to manufacture a bigger & stiffer front sway bar... I also notice a nice improvement when I replace the stock sway bar bushing with the ES bushing.

Bezzle01

Ive heard some people on the org say that getting an ebay FSTB is just as good as the stillen or any other. Is this true or is it bs?

Norm Peterson

Not all of what you observe from the driver's seat as "dive" is really dive. It's a combination of dive (only if you're braking or decelerating) plus roll. Your visual reference is the height of the higher fender, not a reference plane that's at some fixed height with respect to the ground. IOW, it's sort of an optical illusion.

If your suspension has any rising rate effect at all (I think that most do), the unloading side will rise more than the loading side drops, exaggerating the apparent "dive".

BTW, this is not limited to FWD cars, or strut-suspended cars; I first noticed the same thing when I added a 7/8" front sta-bar to a 1964 Dodge that had been delivered without any bars at all.

If the front is working harder, it's the end doing relatively more work. The under-utilized rear is doing even less work. It feels more stable, partly due to the increased understeer and partly because the bump damping on the outside front is now a smaller percentage of critical (you need to consider spring + bar effects), so the ride height change on the outside front occurs slightly quicker and it approaches its steady state loading a little sooner.


Going with stiffer springs does not necessarily have to mean you have to double the OE rate or more to cut roll noticeably. My own experience is that spring stiffnesses 70% - 85% stiffer than base OE springs or 45% - 60% stiffer than the factory "performance" pieces is entirely liveable on a daily basis. Your butt-meter and those of your passengers may differ on the percentages, but stiffer springs aren't necessarily as evil as some have made them out to be. One hint for running stiffer springs (especially if they're LOTS stiffer) is to get the shocks/struts revalved for slightly less bump damping and heavier rebound damping. Another is to have enough rate to compensate for any lowering that occurs (and if the ride comfort associated with staying off the bump stops has any importance, lowering should be minimized). Most "lowering springs" and all severely cut OE springs fail this last criteria; a properly designed spring of higher rate will be no more likely to hit the bump stops in any reasonable situation than the OE springs.

Norm

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

A side note, for those of you who don't know who Norm Peterson is, since he doesn't post in the 5th gen forums all that much....

Norm is, in my opinion, one of the top two or three handling gurus here on the org, and his word is practically Gospel, as far as I'm concerned.....

chr0nos

iTrader: (1)

pretty much true.

chr0nos

iTrader: (1)

so if you have stiffer lowering springs, with adjustable struts like the illuminas (set on softer settings), the ride should be as soft on bumps as oem suspension?

i think the stage2 ltb makes a difference because it stiffens the front (trailing arms), and mainly anchors them further back along the car's chassis. meaning, when you turn and your front end flexes,t it "extends" the flex further along the chassis. since the ltb2 is anchored in more places than stage1, it wont lent the front end flex as much by itself, and puts more of the force evenly along the car. i think the ltb2 does similar things as the sfc running along car's body.

RsMaxMaggie

iTrader: (1)

I agree with Norm. The Max largely suffers from terminal understeer, and this problem is better solved at the rear than the front. When the car was new, I HATED that wallowing "fold over on its nose to the outside of the turn. This might be slightly helped by a front sway bar, but when I learned that the Max had NO RSB, getting one was the first mod needed. The FSTB is inexpensive, looks cool and probably contributes enough front end stiffness to call it a day; no need for a front sway bar.

I went with the H&Rs for lowering springs when I found that the Max didn't come close to my SVT Contour, one of the best handling front driver I have ever driven (too bad it kept falling apart!). The H&Rs were OK in combo with the KYB-GR2, but I always hated that the drop looked lower in the rear than in the front.

So this past weekend I solved the problem. I pulled the rears and reinstalled the SE springs in the rear. I found the GR2s were fine but with rough NJ roads the H&Rs were bottoming out in the rear. Turns out this was correct because the bumpstop was really jammed on.

The wheel gap is now EXACTLY the same front and rear. There is a slight forward croutch that looks cool. Even better, the handling has been greatly improved. The car now has a nice neutral feel, the understeer is gone, I can now kick out the tail by rolling off the throttle midturn, just like I used to do with the SVT.

I believe the handling improvement is the result of reducing the spring stiffness in the rear, to give me a scootch more roll in the rear that is kept under control with the ASB and GR2s. I might suggest this mod setup for any of you on beat-up roads and a need for better handling.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

just for some perspective on eliminating understeer....for those of us who often autocross in 4th/5th gens with the beam axle action, the general rule (unlike in other cars) is to put the rear tire pressures VERY high to help the rear end "rotate". In the last event, I ran 39psi up front and 42psi in the back - and the car rotated MUCH easier than with my setup last season - 41psi front 37psi rear.