H-techs: somewhat dissapointing
04-30-2006, 03:16 PM
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H-techs: somewhat dissapointing
After two years running Illuminas and Maxspeeds, I switched to H-techs a few days ago.
The Maxspeeds handled well, but the ride on the crappy roads around here was getting to be intolerable, even with the illuminas set down to "3" (as soft as I'm willing to run them with lowering springs).
So....my thoughts on the illuminas, after quite a bit of city driving in NoVa and DC, and a road trip up to Baltimore (including rolling the cobblestone streets in Fells Point):
Ride: Even with illuminas set at "4" it's a step up. Ride feels more "solid" and car rattles alot less over big bumps and potholes. Over big bumps on the highway at high speeds, they still seem to hit the bumpstops (which are cut, and which the Maxspeeds NEVER hit)...With the illuminas up at "5" they don't hit, but with them at "5" the ride overall is not much better than the maxspeeds.
Highway handling: fine....quick lane changes were smooth and predictable
City handling: fine during "normal" driving....medium speeds, no hard cornering. No complaints.
High-speed exits/entrances: very unpredictable body roll. I had to drop about 10mph over some exits/entrances with the H-techs compared with the Maxspeeds. This is bad news.
Hard city cornering: pathetic. Hard to describe the feeling, but it's very disconcerting....like cornering with flat front tires (my tires are at 36psi and never roll over the sidewalls).
Autocross: haven't done it yet, but I am really not looking forward to it with the H-techs. The quick handling required is going to be VERY dicey with these springs, as in medium-speed hard cornering while braking or accellerating, the front of the car feels like I'm driving a Cadillac SUV or something, even with Illuminas cranked up.
Overall: The rears are great. The fronts feel like they should be on a luxury SUV or something. Tons of dive into corners, tons of body lean, and excessive oversteer, IMO.
Gonna give it a few weeks and try to fine-tune the rest of the car to adjust for them, but at this point I don't see myself keeping these long. The Maxspeeds ride is annoying, but the handling is predictable and solid. These are a step up in ride, but the handling is unpredictable and boat-like in the front.....
Upside: it's a great "looking" drop...nice and even, and a bit lower than the Maxspeeds. But looks are third priority, behind handling and ride.
Ratings:
City Ride: 3 1/2 stars out of 5
Highway Ride: 4 1/2 stars out of 5
Normal handling: 3 stars
Aggressive handling: 1 1/2 stars
These are a major disappointment at best, considering how much hype they get here on the org. For someone like me, handling is just as important as ride quality, and the H-techs are nowhere close to the Maxspeeds. In fact, I'd say that my stock SE springs and struts were superior in aggressive handling to the H-tech/Illumina setup.
:
The Maxspeeds handled well, but the ride on the crappy roads around here was getting to be intolerable, even with the illuminas set down to "3" (as soft as I'm willing to run them with lowering springs).
So....my thoughts on the illuminas, after quite a bit of city driving in NoVa and DC, and a road trip up to Baltimore (including rolling the cobblestone streets in Fells Point):
Ride: Even with illuminas set at "4" it's a step up. Ride feels more "solid" and car rattles alot less over big bumps and potholes. Over big bumps on the highway at high speeds, they still seem to hit the bumpstops (which are cut, and which the Maxspeeds NEVER hit)...With the illuminas up at "5" they don't hit, but with them at "5" the ride overall is not much better than the maxspeeds.
Highway handling: fine....quick lane changes were smooth and predictable
City handling: fine during "normal" driving....medium speeds, no hard cornering. No complaints.
High-speed exits/entrances: very unpredictable body roll. I had to drop about 10mph over some exits/entrances with the H-techs compared with the Maxspeeds. This is bad news.
Hard city cornering: pathetic. Hard to describe the feeling, but it's very disconcerting....like cornering with flat front tires (my tires are at 36psi and never roll over the sidewalls).
Autocross: haven't done it yet, but I am really not looking forward to it with the H-techs. The quick handling required is going to be VERY dicey with these springs, as in medium-speed hard cornering while braking or accellerating, the front of the car feels like I'm driving a Cadillac SUV or something, even with Illuminas cranked up.
Overall: The rears are great. The fronts feel like they should be on a luxury SUV or something. Tons of dive into corners, tons of body lean, and excessive oversteer, IMO.
Gonna give it a few weeks and try to fine-tune the rest of the car to adjust for them, but at this point I don't see myself keeping these long. The Maxspeeds ride is annoying, but the handling is predictable and solid. These are a step up in ride, but the handling is unpredictable and boat-like in the front.....
Upside: it's a great "looking" drop...nice and even, and a bit lower than the Maxspeeds. But looks are third priority, behind handling and ride.
Ratings:
City Ride: 3 1/2 stars out of 5
Highway Ride: 4 1/2 stars out of 5
Normal handling: 3 stars
Aggressive handling: 1 1/2 stars
These are a major disappointment at best, considering how much hype they get here on the org. For someone like me, handling is just as important as ride quality, and the H-techs are nowhere close to the Maxspeeds. In fact, I'd say that my stock SE springs and struts were superior in aggressive handling to the H-tech/Illumina setup.
:
04-30-2006, 03:23 PM
#2
I kinda had the same feeling about the H-Techs...at least with regards to the front springs.
I ran them for over a year, maybe 2 now, I can't remember, and recently swapped the front to H&R springs. I ran it like that for a week - H&R front and H-Tech rear and liked it, though the rear seemed to look lower than the front. I swapped the rear springs back to stock, and am pretty happy.
But I agree. It seems as though the H-Tech front springs are too soft, or something to that effect. It bottomed out more in front than I liked. The H&R's don't seem to have much of a problem with that. But the H-Tech rears were stiff enough but not intolerable.
Next change on my agenda? When I swapped the fronts back to H&Rs I went back to stock struts up front. I think I'm going to swap the Illuminas back in up front (still have them in rear) and trim the bump stops (put new ones in, didn't trim them last time, but did trim when I had H-Techs) and see what's up.
I ran them for over a year, maybe 2 now, I can't remember, and recently swapped the front to H&R springs. I ran it like that for a week - H&R front and H-Tech rear and liked it, though the rear seemed to look lower than the front. I swapped the rear springs back to stock, and am pretty happy.
But I agree. It seems as though the H-Tech front springs are too soft, or something to that effect. It bottomed out more in front than I liked. The H&R's don't seem to have much of a problem with that. But the H-Tech rears were stiff enough but not intolerable.
Next change on my agenda? When I swapped the fronts back to H&Rs I went back to stock struts up front. I think I'm going to swap the Illuminas back in up front (still have them in rear) and trim the bump stops (put new ones in, didn't trim them last time, but did trim when I had H-Techs) and see what's up.
04-30-2006, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by NYPD-Arnold
WTF. Wow...that sounds pretty lame.
*pets H&Rs*
The H&Rs made such an enormous difference as opposed to the Maxspeeds, it's not even funny. I guess you shouldn't have passed on the H&Rs, eh? :P
*pets H&Rs*
The H&Rs made such an enormous difference as opposed to the Maxspeeds, it's not even funny. I guess you shouldn't have passed on the H&Rs, eh? :P
04-30-2006, 03:41 PM
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Well i still stand by my h-techs 
My illuminas are set to 3f/4r and it's perfect....no body lean as you said, and there as absolutely no such feeling of floatiness....maybe it's your illuminas?
My illuminas are set to 3f/4r and it's perfect....no body lean as you said, and there as absolutely no such feeling of floatiness....maybe it's your illuminas?
04-30-2006, 03:41 PM
#6
i have same setup, htech and illumina's. I'm running on 5 and I feel bumps and whatnot but i'm so used to sprints on my old max that i'm pretty happy wit this setup. I dont have many good suspensions to compare to though and the handle/look of this setup is better than stock so i guess thats why i'm content. You got me thinking of riding on easier setting just to see how it feels...
04-30-2006, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by LA02MAX
Well i still stand by my h-techs
My illuminas are set to 3f/4r and it's perfect....no body lean as you said, and there as absolutely no such feeling of floatiness....maybe it's your illuminas?
My illuminas are set to 3f/4r and it's perfect....no body lean as you said, and there as absolutely no such feeling of floatiness....maybe it's your illuminas?
I'm beginning to thing maybe that I just corner harder than most people here, always pretending I'm on the autocross course
Btw, my front illuminas only have 15K or so on them, and felt the same with my maxspeeds last week as they did when they were new...so it can't be the struts.
04-30-2006, 04:14 PM
#8
Originally Posted by irish44j
no kidding....owned by not wanting the huge H&R wheel gap. Next try = switch the fronts to Joel's old Progresses, and see if those are an improvement.
04-30-2006, 04:17 PM
#9
cool this is good news for me. Because for a while I have been going back and forth between H-techs and H&Rs and recently I chose that I want to go with H&Rs but the idea of what if about the H-techs was still bugging me. Glad to hear that the H-techs are deff not a performance oriented spring like the H&R.
Maybe its because the manual 5th gens are lighter but with the heavier I35s the H&R dont seem to give any bad looking wheel gap.
this I35 is dropped on H&Rs
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/739345#Scene_1
It seems like the H&Rs would give you whats your looking for Josh why dont you give them a try? You already spent the bulk of the money on illuminas. I cant remember the specifics about the progress but I know that early on in my spring research I found out they werent what I was looking for. I think I heard repeatedly that they rode harder than the H&Rs and H-Techs and if I am gonna deal with a hard ride, I am gonna go with the only spring that may have better handling than the H&Rs and thats the Eibachs.
So far though H&R seems to be the best bet for what I'm lookin for just as long as the *** doesnt sag when I put a single 12in sub in the back.
Maybe its because the manual 5th gens are lighter but with the heavier I35s the H&R dont seem to give any bad looking wheel gap.
this I35 is dropped on H&Rs
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/739345#Scene_1
It seems like the H&Rs would give you whats your looking for Josh why dont you give them a try? You already spent the bulk of the money on illuminas. I cant remember the specifics about the progress but I know that early on in my spring research I found out they werent what I was looking for. I think I heard repeatedly that they rode harder than the H&Rs and H-Techs and if I am gonna deal with a hard ride, I am gonna go with the only spring that may have better handling than the H&Rs and thats the Eibachs.
So far though H&R seems to be the best bet for what I'm lookin for just as long as the *** doesnt sag when I put a single 12in sub in the back.
04-30-2006, 04:19 PM
#10
Originally Posted by sciff5
So far though H&R seems to be the best bet for what I'm lookin for just as long as the *** doesnt sag when I put a single 12in sub in the back.
The H&Rs have a naturally sagging rear look. My advice is either: track down a rear set of Maxspeed springs and keep the OEM springs in the rear.
04-30-2006, 04:27 PM
#11
Originally Posted by NYPD-Arnold
The H&Rs have a naturally sagging rear look. My advice is either: track down a rear set of Maxspeed springs and keep the OEM springs in the rear.
04-30-2006, 04:46 PM
#12
Originally Posted by sciff5
As you can see from the pic I posted the I35 doesnt seem to suffer from the droopy *** syndrome as much. I am guessing, and hoping, its for the same reason the auto maxes dont seem to notice the back drooping as much on H&Rs, because the auto tranny puts more weight up front and makes the front springs compress slightly further, on my car this will probably be even more so the case with the LTB and strut bar up front.
Even when I had H&Rs up front and H-Techs in the rear the rear was slightly lower than the front.
04-30-2006, 04:57 PM
#13
Originally Posted by MetaOrbit
Wishful thinking buddy. The pics you linked to don't show the car on level ground. I've seen other I35s with H&Rs all around and they too, sag in the rear.
Even when I had H&Rs up front and H-Techs in the rear the rear was slightly lower than the front.
Even when I had H&Rs up front and H-Techs in the rear the rear was slightly lower than the front.
that sucks... so to me it doesnt look like there is a perfect solution but H&Rs seem to be the closest to it for me, unless I find that the SFCs make the ride good enough that I can step up to the harsher Eibach spring and then the drop will be perfect, handling will be the best short of coilovers and the ride would be pretty good too. But again.. wishfull thinking.. Irish why dont you try the Eibachs up front, or the H&Rs?
04-30-2006, 05:03 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by sciff5
Irish why dont you try the Eibachs up front, or the H&Rs?
....I need another sportscar....
04-30-2006, 05:15 PM
#15
Originally Posted by irish44j
Because I just dropped $ on the H-techs, and I'm getting bored with working on this car.....if anything, I'll just put the Maxspeeds back in the front and deal with the harsh ride, since they handle very nice....
....I need another sportscar....
....I need another sportscar....
lol.. well the good news is that you most likely can sell the H-techs for close to what you bought them for here on the board.
Sounds like you are where I am. Thats why I am mainly saving my money instead of dropping it on performance parts for my I35. With that saved money I am going to build an all out weekend racer, which you already have. I think you have some classic sports cars. Put your performance cash into those so that any time you feel like tearing up the asphalt you can bring them out and anytime you want to ride in comfort you bring your max out.
I am planning on putting an Ls1 in an 1986 RX7. It should run 12 flat with the stock LS1 and with minor suspension mods and some nice street tires pull over 1G on the skidpad, with weight balance and center of gravity to die for. All of which are things I found out I really couldent do with a max no matter how much $ I drop into it. The max is an awsome daily driver, we just gotta appreciate it for what it was made to do.
04-30-2006, 05:50 PM
#16
I hear alot about the H&R's, but how do the Eibachs compare to either? I had Eibachs on my 3rd gen and I was extrememly happy with the ride and performance, but it was the first lowered car I owned.
05-01-2006, 03:22 AM
#17
Josh, every symptom you've mentioned with the Maxspeeds is exactly what I've been dealing with as well recently. I'm beginning to strongly dislike the feel of the front 1/2 of my car. With having the Blues & Maxspeeds, the roads are quite harsh at times.
05-01-2006, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluesbrekr
Hint:.......Coilovers 
05-01-2006, 11:03 AM
#21
What about Progress? I have Maxspeeds with GR2's on the whole the ride is decent, but it tends to bottom out on speed bumps easily. Probably more of a strut than spring issue, I had Illumina's with Eibach's on my 4th gen and the handling was amazing. Eventually I'll go to Illumina's but curious about the Progress, can't go with a spring any lower than Maxspeeds though.
05-01-2006, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by irish44j
I think "floatiness" is the wrong word. they don't feel floaty on the highway...they just feel very unpredictable "at the limit" (i.e during hard cornering).
I'm beginning to thing maybe that I just corner harder than most people here, always pretending I'm on the autocross course
Btw, my front illuminas only have 15K or so on them, and felt the same with my maxspeeds last week as they did when they were new...so it can't be the struts.
I'm beginning to thing maybe that I just corner harder than most people here, always pretending I'm on the autocross course
Btw, my front illuminas only have 15K or so on them, and felt the same with my maxspeeds last week as they did when they were new...so it can't be the struts.
05-01-2006, 01:33 PM
#23
Hmmm H-techs are not liked by Irish!! hehe well IMO I love them. I think it handles good, predictible for me, and no dives with Tokiko HPs. Well like Irish said maybe it's just him autocrossing in the streets. lol no one does that. hehe
Well I love my H-techs in front and H&Rs in the rear. The ride drop is flat even. The ride confort is great, and the handling is good.
Well I love my H-techs in front and H&Rs in the rear. The ride drop is flat even. The ride confort is great, and the handling is good.
05-01-2006, 02:24 PM
#24
I felt the same as Irish, but here in NYC road are much worst, only want to go with the softest spring.
Maybe one day will try H&R on it.
Hey Irish, how do u feel about H&R compare to Tein in term of comfort?
Maybe one day will try H&R on it.
Hey Irish, how do u feel about H&R compare to Tein in term of comfort?
05-01-2006, 03:01 PM
#25
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This is not good to hear. I was planning on swapping my Eibach's for H-Techs when I get larger wheels. Not sure if Im willing to give up the awesome performance of the Eibach's for anything less. Unfortunitly Im not sure if I can handle the Eibach's with little sidewall.
I was considering H&R's too, but I really dont like the looks of the drop. They are way to high in the front.
Oh well, I guess Ill deal with that when it comes time.
I was considering H&R's too, but I really dont like the looks of the drop. They are way to high in the front.
Oh well, I guess Ill deal with that when it comes time.
05-01-2006, 04:07 PM
#26
i just switched my eibach/blues for stock/h-techs this weekend. i have to say living in boston the eibachs were hell from day one but i loved the drop. i have to say the h-techs ride better then stock did imo. they do not handle near the eibachs, i threw the rear out in a rotary the other day, kinda of scary. the car drives like a caddy now. i will take the lack of handling for the comfort of the ride. i would't say the car is unpreditable though, i can tell whats it gonna do, it's just that the limit has changed. with a system in the trunk i have 26" at all four corners with 18" wheels and 235/40/18 tires
05-01-2006, 06:45 PM
#27
Originally Posted by irish44j
no kidding....owned by not wanting the huge H&R wheel gap. Next try = switch the fronts to Joel's old Progresses, and see if those are an improvement.
i am probably switching to boss chen's in my search for good ride, appearance and handling. Would you be interested in trying out the Vogtlands I am using now if I switch them out. I need some good autocross feedback. I am pleaed with them, but they have the H&R issue...like a 50yr old stipper...her *** is saggin!
05-01-2006, 07:09 PM
#28
Guys, I'm on Maxspeeds & stockers and absolutly love the ride. I also came from Ksports so this is a huge step up in ride quality for me. I've had this setup for 6 months now and still love it, and I'm in Jersey....home of the crapist roads in the union 
05-01-2006, 07:11 PM
#29
I have had the H-techs for a while now and I like them a lot. I love the ride and I dont have a problem with the handling. I have taken some very hard turns at high speeds and I was comfortable with it, it didnt seem as if the car was all over the road or anything. BTW I have illuminas set at 3f/3r with FSTB, RSTB, RSB and 245,40 Nitto 555's. I had a 4 door accord with H&R's before the max and it was definitely much tighter but the ride sucked. So I went with a better ride, and an awsome stance and sacraficed some handling, I guess we can't have everything, but for Irish you need a much more serious spring from the sounds of it, autocrossing and all that. When I bought the h-techs the guy told me that they fronts have a progressive spring rate and the backs dont, maybe that has something to do with the loose rears. Just my .02
05-01-2006, 07:22 PM
#30
cornering is great for me. I honestly see no problems with this setup except feeling bumps which can easily be blamed on my 5/5 setting. The look now is great, handle meets my needs, you are just a little more aggressive in the suspension category than most i guess but thats a good thing. Whatever you finally feel comfortable with may be the ideal setup to go with 
. until then, htechs are doin me justice
. until then, htechs are doin me justice
05-01-2006, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Spin20
When I bought the h-techs the guy told me that they fronts have a progressive spring rate and the backs dont, maybe that has something to do with the loose rears. Just my .02
Frankly I really like the H-tech rears. It's the fronts i don't like - at least in the handling department. (even with illuminas at 5/5, they still ride better than the Maxspeeds did at 3/3)......
decisions, decisions.....
IWNTMORHP!!, appreciate the offer, but I'll pass for the time being. I'm gonna give teh H-techs a month or two to "grow" on me, and run a couple events with them to see if I can tweak the rest of the suspension to make up for what I feel is lacking in the front springs.
I was debating being the autocross "tester" for the boss chens, but had to back out on Larry because of limited car finances...trying to buy a new house, so the car is really on "back burner" except for parts I already have sitting around waiting to be installed.
Will be interested in some more thoughts on the Boss Chens, since I think Larry is the only 5th gen with them right now
05-01-2006, 07:45 PM
#32
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just to clarify - the problem is not with handling overall.... 98% of the time they are fine/good handling. The only time I don't like them is when the car is "at the cornering limit," particularly at slower and medium speeds.
Unfortunately for me specifically, in an autocross course, the car is "at the cornering limit" 90% of the time
Unfortunately for me specifically, in an autocross course, the car is "at the cornering limit" 90% of the time
05-01-2006, 08:16 PM
#33
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I've had the rearend slide out on me with my Eibach's, but it was very controlled. Just sort of started sliding, but didnt snap out...
Is this the problem you have found with the H-techs? BTW, what tires are you running right now?
Is this the problem you have found with the H-techs? BTW, what tires are you running right now?
05-02-2006, 08:41 AM
#34
Time to upgrade 
haha
I'm at 9kg F/ 7kg R eibach springs now. I have a few sets stuck in customs right now. IWNTMORHP!! is going to help me out as my tester on the east coast.
Lemme know when the timing is right, i'll make you a offer you can't refuse
hahaI'm at 9kg F/ 7kg R eibach springs now. I have a few sets stuck in customs right now. IWNTMORHP!! is going to help me out as my tester on the east coast.
Lemme know when the timing is right, i'll make you a offer you can't refuse
05-02-2006, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rbrown81
Good luck resolving the issues... Go with H&R and call it a day. I was considering doing H&R in the back and changing the fronts to Eibach just to level out the drop a little.
I'm seriously considering just swapping in Rob's old D2 coilovers in the front for track days....
I guess we'll see if the poor handling is just my imagination or if it's real....next autocross is in a couple of weeks.
05-02-2006, 07:34 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by Larrio
Time to upgrade haha
I'm at 9kg F/ 7kg R eibach springs now. I have a few sets stuck in customs right now. IWNTMORHP!! is going to help me out as my tester on the east coast.
Lemme know when the timing is right, i'll make you a offer you can't refuse
hahaI'm at 9kg F/ 7kg R eibach springs now. I have a few sets stuck in customs right now. IWNTMORHP!! is going to help me out as my tester on the east coast.
Lemme know when the timing is right, i'll make you a offer you can't refuse
05-02-2006, 07:36 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by irish44j
I guess we'll see if the poor handling is just my imagination or if it's real....next autocross is in a couple of weeks.
05-02-2006, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by LA02MAX
I'm sure it's not your imagination, considering you have so much experience with what a car should handle like, but i'm curious; where exactly do you go to test this? i mean, yeah you can go fast around a right turn sometimes, but nothing like the short turns you do auto-xing....personally, i have been wanting to see how my car would do in that type of situation, but i've never found the chance...the only thing i can do is a mini slalom at different speeds to see how much body lean i have....i can't really tell in the turns, because i don't know if my car is leaning or the force is just causing me to think it's leaning, and i've never felt for a second that i didn't have control of my car thorough a turn....
I can feel the difference even on regular street cornering and high-speed highway entrance/exits though.....I just think the soft end of the progressive spring rate is messing me up - the maxspeeds are linear and fairly stiff all the way through the range....not used to the initial resistance being so soft.
I doubt I'm leaning more than with the maxspeeds....but the spring rates just make it feel that way i think. In any case, I have other projects going on right now, so I'll probably keep these on for at least a month or two now and at least enjoy the very nice ride quality on the crap roads around here
05-02-2006, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by irish44j
There is a large commuter rail station down the street from me. On weekends and nights it's pretty much empty and plenty of room to do some hard maneuvering for a couple minutes without attracting any attention (unless a cop happens to be driving by at that very moment)....Also the lot at the ski shop I work with has alot of room to mess around in during the summer (not much ski sales in summer!).....
I can feel the difference even on regular street cornering and high-speed highway entrance/exits though.....I just think the soft end of the progressive spring rate is messing me up - the maxspeeds are linear and fairly stiff all the way through the range....not used to the initial resistance being so soft.
I doubt I'm leaning more than with the maxspeeds....but the spring rates just make it feel that way i think. In any case, I have other projects going on right now, so I'll probably keep these on for at least a month or two now and at least enjoy the very nice ride quality on the crap roads around here
I can feel the difference even on regular street cornering and high-speed highway entrance/exits though.....I just think the soft end of the progressive spring rate is messing me up - the maxspeeds are linear and fairly stiff all the way through the range....not used to the initial resistance being so soft.
I doubt I'm leaning more than with the maxspeeds....but the spring rates just make it feel that way i think. In any case, I have other projects going on right now, so I'll probably keep these on for at least a month or two now and at least enjoy the very nice ride quality on the crap roads around here
The ride on the h-techs is really nice, and for me, it's a GREAT option, because i'm not a very aggressive driver...but if you want to see crappy roads, come to Louisiana...i think they really do have the lowest ranked roads in the U.S. The road to get to my house is nothing but potholes, filled and unfilled, and before i got my LTB, i couldn't stand the ride with the illuminas set to 3/4..i had it at 1/2 which really DID make the car feel floaty!
Anyway, good luck with the h-techs, and i hope you do alright in your next auto-x comp...