Plenum Spacer pulled 3 times on Dyno FYI
05-02-2006, 04:42 PM
#41
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 376
Just in case you wanted to know I will give you a contact person that I am working with on this to hopefully "verify" the validity of the claim that at least ONE was made.....800-444-3845 Boedeker Plastics. Contact Scott W. Whom is working on the spacer's "best" materials to use for the application.
05-02-2006, 04:54 PM
#43
Originally Posted by sleeperI35
Just in case you wanted to know I will give you a contact person that I am working with on this to hopefully "verify" the validity of the claim that at least ONE was made.....800-444-3845 Boedeker Plastics. Contact Scott W. Whom is working on the spacer's "best" materials to use for the application.
...
How long before I can buy one. Are we talking weeks or months or ???
05-04-2006, 11:35 AM
#47
G37S > I35 > UR Max
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: (P)ure (G)arbage, MD
Posts: 899
Originally Posted by sleeperI35
CAI Custom made (a RAM AIR application through the front grill)
Cryogen COLD CO2 kit for AIR INTAKE
Cattman Headers (original Zealand Ceramic coated version) They sound nicer to me than the newer version)
JWT cams
Advance Timing
Unorthodox racing pulley
Cattman Cat Back
Straight Test Pipe (ceramic coated heat protected)
Insulated fuel lines
Underdrive gates Belt (NO A/C hooked up)
Custom Alternator Pulley
Brembo Rotor
Stillen Gound Wire Kit with Blue Thermal Coating
Custom Valve Body
AOD Shift kit
Stillen Front tower strut bar
Progress Rear Sway Bar
Progress Lowering Springs (Currently for sale) moving on to TEIN coilovers and have no need for these anymore.
Currently running ZEX 55 shot with custom blue purge kit (shoots out of the front fenders up at an angle) pics coming of the purge soon!! Listen to all of you that do not run nitrous in our cars..DONT stay away from the motor damage associated with it!! Seriously! IT is not worth the headaches.
ALSO SAFC2 just installed and tuned..ANYONE that doent see what they possibly do should go buy one. for the money it's worth it. With mine, after being tuned out by someone who KNEW what they were doing, I got about 15 HP out of tuning properly. (Didn't dyno that alone so can't give exacts on it)
.
05-04-2006, 12:35 PM
#48
Originally Posted by sleeperI35
I am running MUCH higher than 225WHP
Phenolic spacer...interesting.
Aaron92se has some similar concept products on his car.
This mod will help a lot with consistency.
Would you be so kind to send runfliles to bizzy1999@hotmail.com
05-04-2006, 01:12 PM
#51
G37S > I35 > UR Max
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: (P)ure (G)arbage, MD
Posts: 899
Hey -
SleeperI35, are you the guy that signed on to my I35 cardomain page and left me feedback saying that you have a 330hp I35. If so pm, me.
SleeperI35, are you the guy that signed on to my I35 cardomain page and left me feedback saying that you have a 330hp I35. If so pm, me.
... My A32 had them going to the TB also. And so does the A33B.
05-04-2006, 02:23 PM
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 141
THe TB coolant line is to keep the throttle blade from iceing up in the winter. It replaces the old heat tube that you see on older cars. The tube that comes off the exhaust and runs to the intake filter house on top of the carb. Other than that it's point less. Atleast that's been my experience on my other cars.
A TB bypass was very pop. when I was playing around with corvettes. I gained about 1/10th in the 1/4 after bypassing it. It did help, but I really couldn't tell you how effective it would be on this car.
A TB bypass was very pop. when I was playing around with corvettes. I gained about 1/10th in the 1/4 after bypassing it. It did help, but I really couldn't tell you how effective it would be on this car.
05-05-2006, 06:22 AM
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 141
As I said in a earlier post this idea, is not new, and seeing as how we still have not gotten files, and if that makes things questionable. Then try making the item youself. Heres how...
If you want to make this thing yourself, here is how, and the material to do so.
Phenolic is the name of the stuff that has been used for years. If you look at carb spacers they use wood, or this stuff. Wood of course doesn't hold up as long.
"Phenolic is a hard, dense material made by applying heat and pressure to layers of paper or glass cloth impregnated with synthetic resin. These layers of laminations are usually of cellulose paper, cotton fabrics, synthetic yarn fabrics, glass fabrics or unwoven fabrics. When heat and pressure are applied to the layers, a chemical reaction (polymerization) transforms the layers into a high-pressure thermosetting industrial laminated plastic."
PROPERTIES
Excellent dielectric strength
Good machinability
Light weight
Heat and wear resistant
Resists corrosion and chemicals
Good mechanical strength & dimensional stability
Low moisture absorption
Get some of this and have a local machine shop cut it out for you using a new gasket as a template.
I'm sure there are other materials that can be used, but this is what most racers use.
Forgot to add this link May help? http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...l%3Den%26lr%3D
OOPS did I just let the cat out of the bag?
Good luck guys
If you want to make this thing yourself, here is how, and the material to do so.
Phenolic is the name of the stuff that has been used for years. If you look at carb spacers they use wood, or this stuff. Wood of course doesn't hold up as long.
"Phenolic is a hard, dense material made by applying heat and pressure to layers of paper or glass cloth impregnated with synthetic resin. These layers of laminations are usually of cellulose paper, cotton fabrics, synthetic yarn fabrics, glass fabrics or unwoven fabrics. When heat and pressure are applied to the layers, a chemical reaction (polymerization) transforms the layers into a high-pressure thermosetting industrial laminated plastic."
PROPERTIES
Excellent dielectric strength
Good machinability
Light weight
Heat and wear resistant
Resists corrosion and chemicals
Good mechanical strength & dimensional stability
Low moisture absorption
Get some of this and have a local machine shop cut it out for you using a new gasket as a template.
I'm sure there are other materials that can be used, but this is what most racers use.
Forgot to add this link May help? http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...l%3Den%26lr%3D
OOPS did I just let the cat out of the bag?
Good luck guys
05-05-2006, 03:14 PM
#62
He's not using phenolic, but it is something similar. But the results are comparable. You put a piece of something between the engine and the plenum. The heat transfer from the engine to the plenum is blocked/dissipated by the spacer. The plenum stays cool to the touch. The air into the car is cooler which equals more horsepower. I don' remember the exact numbers but every degree of temperature drop equals a gain in horsepower to the wheels.
05-05-2006, 03:45 PM
#64
Originally Posted by knight_yyz
He's not using phenolic
05-08-2006, 01:07 PM
#71
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 376
You did not scare me off, and it is not BS. I cannot say it enough. I was staying away from the posts because I am trying to work this all out with materials. I have 3 sets of run files and spent most of the weekend dynoing the car and spending a fortune of my OWN money doing it. Epacy...look I even wrote you in private explaining what was going on with this project and the fact that I did not want to argue abou this back and forth. Knight has asked me a couple of questions that were helpful to me in doing this, and it is hard to say it will be completed by this date or that date because of what is involved. There was a reply in this post here that you can go do this youself...just to shed a little light on the subject here about the do it yourself part...you CAN go do it yourself, but you will run into alot of the same problems that I have run into. Phelonic does not have the heat soaking principles that carbon impreganted nylon - 6 has. SO far I have lowered the air intake temperature on average through various driving conditions about 10 degrees. Now on for the problems I have encountered so far, which I would greatly appreciate input on..FTSB will not fit with the larger spacer (which most people would be interested in purchasing) , 2) The manufacturing company that I was working with has me spending too much money to make it cost efficient for both myself AND the Maxima community. 3) Spacing for the "gasket" has skewed the fittings of the stock bolts of course and it also has skewed the torque of the bolt itself. (If you have worked on cars, these bolts have a factory torque setting that should be used to maintain durability and retain composure) I HAVE TO SAY THANKS FOR THOSE DEFENDING ME WHILE WORKING ON THE PROJECT. To the others, I am sorry but first and foremost I am doing this for fun for myself, then #2 for business. To those who "think" they can fabricate this spacer themselves and it is a 1,2,3 thing, then you can try and you will run into the same problems that I have already resolved. most of you have exhaust systems on your cars, correct??? Then why did you buy them and not fabricate them yourselves out of sheet metal?? I WILL Post the final run files and Dyno's. I am not running or hiding anywhere, and please stop attacking me.
05-08-2006, 02:01 PM
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 102
That's all well and good, but I hope you see the issue here. Dyno results and run files were promised one week ago. Everyone’s concerns are not unwarranted. If you would have provided the files as stated you would not be "attacked".
05-08-2006, 02:38 PM
#73
Originally Posted by zagzig
That's all well and good, but I hope you see the issue here. Dyno results and run files were promised one week ago. Everyone’s concerns are not unwarranted. If you would have provided the files as stated you would not be "attacked".
05-08-2006, 03:09 PM
#74
Sleeper. We believe you that this would work. We are not doubting that you are running into issues, we just want to see the promised Run files and perhaps some images of the spacer.
It would only take you a few minutes to post runfiles or send them to rbrown81@gmail.com
It would only take you a few minutes to post runfiles or send them to rbrown81@gmail.com
05-08-2006, 03:39 PM
#75
Originally Posted by NmexMAX
Ok.. so if you know what he's using that means...possibly...you are in contact with sleeperI35..so then why don't you get the runfiles... since he seems to be busy.
05-08-2006, 03:52 PM
#76
Yes sleeper and I have been in contact with each other. I am a toolmaker in Canada, and I have access to machines and data and engineers to which sleeper perhaps does not. Yes you can go and make your own phenolic spacer and crank down your plenum bolts. What do you think will happen? Have any of you even seen phenolic? It will crush like balsa wood if it has too much torque. Then your engine can suck that lovely poisonous yellow dust and burn it in your combustion chambers. I think the only mistake sleeper has made so far was coming in here with an idea and asking for some positive input. You all know the idea is sound, physics proves that cooler air to the engine equals more horsepower, so keeping the heat from the engine seeping into the plenum is an excellent idea. There are a few engineering problems that need to be worked out. Have any of you felt how cool the plenum is on a 00 or 01? Me and a buddy were comparing our cars a few days ago. He has an 00 and I have an 03. We both had the hoods open comparing engines. I was curious about the "plastic" plenum on the 00 and so I touched it. It was almost cold. My aluminum one almost burned my hand. So let's give him some time to work out some details before we all go bashing him for a good idea. 
05-08-2006, 04:39 PM
#77
Originally Posted by knight_yyz
Yes sleeper and I have been in contact with each other. I am a toolmaker in Canada, and I have access to machines and data and engineers to which sleeper perhaps does not. Yes you can go and make your own phenolic spacer and crank down your plenum bolts. What do you think will happen? Have any of you even seen phenolic? It will crush like balsa wood if it has too much torque. Then your engine can suck that lovely poisonous yellow dust and burn it in your combustion chambers. I think the only mistake sleeper has made so far was coming in here with an idea and asking for some positive input. You all know the idea is sound, physics proves that cooler air to the engine equals more horsepower, so keeping the heat from the engine seeping into the plenum is an excellent idea. There are a few engineering problems that need to be worked out. Have any of you felt how cool the plenum is on a 00 or 01? Me and a buddy were comparing our cars a few days ago. He has an 00 and I have an 03. We both had the hoods open comparing engines. I was curious about the "plastic" plenum on the 00 and so I touched it. It was almost cold. My aluminum one almost burned my hand. So let's give him some time to work out some details before we all go bashing him for a good idea.
Mate. We arent bashing, and we know about the material so you dont need to go quoting what will happen if its not used properly. We are not arguing that point, we want to see the bloody run files from the dyno, thats all. Stop changing the subject.
05-08-2006, 04:44 PM
#78
you do realize hes only been a member for 2 weeks...and coming onto a forum claiming this and that is NOT going to get good results....
i'm sorry to say sleeperi35, but this is how it goes....just basic logic.....when u step into a forum with no proof or data about anything...and u only officially signed up 2 weeks ago....alot of people are going to demand results....u haven't posted them yet, well u should know the rest...
i'm sorry to say sleeperi35, but this is how it goes....just basic logic.....when u step into a forum with no proof or data about anything...and u only officially signed up 2 weeks ago....alot of people are going to demand results....u haven't posted them yet, well u should know the rest...
05-08-2006, 05:10 PM
#79
Originally Posted by steven88
you do realize hes only been a member for 2 weeks...and coming onto a forum claiming this and that is NOT going to get good results....
i'm sorry to say sleeperi35, but this is how it goes....just basic logic.....when u step into a forum with no proof or data about anything...and u only officially signed up 2 weeks ago....alot of people are going to demand results....u haven't posted them yet, well u should know the rest...
i'm sorry to say sleeperi35, but this is how it goes....just basic logic.....when u step into a forum with no proof or data about anything...and u only officially signed up 2 weeks ago....alot of people are going to demand results....u haven't posted them yet, well u should know the rest...
05-08-2006, 05:38 PM
#80
Can someone please explain a thing or 2 to me? I'm getting rusty in my old age. I'd like it if I35 could explain it to me so I will understand it from the horse's mouth but anyone can chime in.
Let's get a few facts down on the table prior to me asking my question.
1) The spacer, in effect, allows the upper intake plenum to remain at a lower temperature than normally seen due to the fact that the spacer is not as conductive as the normal gasket material? If this is true, I absolutely agree with you to a point... but that is immaterial for cold run dynos and the like.
2) The spacer, by keeping the upper intake cooler, allows the lower intake to heat up further? This may or may not be true but by the conservation of energy and mass laws, it has to be true unless we are converting the heat to work somehow. But, just to be on the safe side, we'll say the radiator accounts for the increase in temperature of the lower intake and it stays a nice, toasty 400*.
3) The upper intake plenum has a flow of something like 500 cfm, maybe more, maybe less. This is at WOT but how else are you supposed to dyno a car... Am I still making sense?
4) The upper intake plenum is less than 1 cubic foot in volume. It could be more but I'm pretty sure it is less. Am I still on target?
So, here's where my question lies. If, at WOT, the intake is flowing roughly 500 cfm of air through a volume of less than 1 cubic foot, how does the incoming air remain any cooler? The air is cycled through at more than 8 cycles per second at WOT (500 cfm / 60 seconds). Air, being the poor conductor it is, has no time to heat much further than the ambient / underhood temp before the engine sucks it into the intake valves and combusts it.
Being the born skeptic I am, I have sat back and awaited someone to ask this question but all I am seeing is people wanting proof of the dyno and runfiles. I could give a crap less about them. If something works, it works, pure and simple. What I want to know is the science behind it. There's nothing wrong with asking for proof; we each have our skepticism satiated in different forms.
If you are claiming the increase in power is via the decrease in intake plenum temperature, please tell me how this works. If you care claiming the increase in power is due to and effective lengthening of the runners, please explain that to me.
Again, anyone is welcome to answer the above but please do so in a way that a poor, lowly engineer like myself can understand. I've only been doing this for 15 years or so now so I'm likely not to understand at first.
Let's get a few facts down on the table prior to me asking my question.
1) The spacer, in effect, allows the upper intake plenum to remain at a lower temperature than normally seen due to the fact that the spacer is not as conductive as the normal gasket material? If this is true, I absolutely agree with you to a point... but that is immaterial for cold run dynos and the like.
2) The spacer, by keeping the upper intake cooler, allows the lower intake to heat up further? This may or may not be true but by the conservation of energy and mass laws, it has to be true unless we are converting the heat to work somehow. But, just to be on the safe side, we'll say the radiator accounts for the increase in temperature of the lower intake and it stays a nice, toasty 400*.
3) The upper intake plenum has a flow of something like 500 cfm, maybe more, maybe less. This is at WOT but how else are you supposed to dyno a car... Am I still making sense?
4) The upper intake plenum is less than 1 cubic foot in volume. It could be more but I'm pretty sure it is less. Am I still on target?
So, here's where my question lies. If, at WOT, the intake is flowing roughly 500 cfm of air through a volume of less than 1 cubic foot, how does the incoming air remain any cooler? The air is cycled through at more than 8 cycles per second at WOT (500 cfm / 60 seconds). Air, being the poor conductor it is, has no time to heat much further than the ambient / underhood temp before the engine sucks it into the intake valves and combusts it.
Being the born skeptic I am, I have sat back and awaited someone to ask this question but all I am seeing is people wanting proof of the dyno and runfiles. I could give a crap less about them. If something works, it works, pure and simple. What I want to know is the science behind it. There's nothing wrong with asking for proof; we each have our skepticism satiated in different forms.
If you are claiming the increase in power is via the decrease in intake plenum temperature, please tell me how this works. If you care claiming the increase in power is due to and effective lengthening of the runners, please explain that to me.
Again, anyone is welcome to answer the above but please do so in a way that a poor, lowly engineer like myself can understand. I've only been doing this for 15 years or so now so I'm likely not to understand at first.