Hey people,

I wanted to add the following info to my suspension thread, but I don't think I have the right to add something to a sticky before I verify that it's 110% correct, even though I'm sure that it's indeed correct.

So, here it is, please post your comments and suggestions:

Spring/shocks vs. coilovers

Springs/shocks:

Pros:

• Softer ride over small road irregularities
• Higher reliability due to simple design and low spring rate
• Slightly lower price

Cons:

• Ride may get harsher over poorly maintained roads due to limited suspension travel
• Progressive spring rate makes the car not quite as predictable at the limit
• Lack of adjustability

Verdict:

• If you want slightly better handling, better looks, maintenance free use and close to stock ride, conventional spring/shock combo will not disappoint you.

Coilovers:

Pros:

• Much better handling and higher traction limits
• Smoother ride over poorly maintained pavement due to long suspension travel
• Ability to make many different adjustments including ride height

Cons:

• Firmer ride
• More potential maintenance problems due to the more sophisticated design and higher rate springs
• Higher price

Verdict:

• If your goal is maximum handling or [not “and”] slammed look, only coilovers will allow you to achieve your goal. But be prepared to deal with squeaks and blown shocks, even though you MIGHT not have to deal with them.

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Thanks in advance!

 

sounds good to me

 

depends on the spring
depends on the strut used. The spring quality for spring/strut and coilover setups are the same, as most of the springs are made by the same companies (Eibach, Tein, etc)
generally, though Illuminas+high end springs+camber plates cost almost as much as some coilovers

limited suspension travel? depends on the spring.
not all standalone springs are progressive. Maxspeeds aren't, for example.
clearly, adjustability is the upside of coilovers

depends on the springs, struts, and other suspension mods

depends on what you use...I've seen cars on coilovers (including Maximas) bouncing all over the place due to too much stiffness/not enough dampening. That does NOT help handling. Traction is more related to tires than suspension, though it has some effect

still not sure what you mean by this. Some coilovers have longer travel, some have shorter. Same with springs. Ride quality is directly related to the springs rates and the dampening (i.e. struts) settings.

yes.

spring-rate dependent, but generally yes. There's a fine line between "harsh" and "firm"
most coilover maintenance issues are due to poor upper mount design or adjusting collar design. Depends on the coilover.
generally
handling is more than just hte springs/struts/coilovers. Both setups have their advantages and disadvantages, depending on what else is done to the car.


Really though, the coilover vs. spring argument can go on forever. Some spring/strut combos will outperform some coilovers in ride, handling, etc. AND vice versa. "handling" is so subjective, depending on what you're looking for.

As you might know, I think it's Brian (BEJAY) who has actually removed his front sway bar to increase turn-in for autocross. Who else here would think to remove the FSB for ANY reason? But Brian is generally considered one of the top "handling gurus" and "track gurus" here on the org.....

depends on how you drive as to what kind of setup is most advantageous to you personally. I guarantee that with the Maxspeed/Illumina setup (and everything else I have done) I can outhandle and outcorner many coilover-equipped maximas here (clearly, not all of them). Tires, camber settings, toe settings, wheel weight, bushings, weight distribution, sway bars, tie bars, etc etc etc - all have an effect, and just having "all" of them doesn't automatically mean you have the best handling for YOU.

that's my stance, and I'm sticking to it!

 

hm......... the funny thing is, I knew all of that.

You right, there's just too many small nuances that have to be considered in this comparison. Well, in this case, let them decide on their own...

Thanks for clearing up my mind.

 

sometimes ya just write down what you want to hear, I think....happens to me too...hard to think of the 'opposing position' all the time.

 

Doesnt dropping the car too low on coilovers screw with the suspension geometry too much?

 

You know I think coilovers have a much greater handling potential but I think on average they dont handle much better than a good spring stut combo for a couple reasons.

1. Human Nature - Coilovers are very adjustable and most of the time people dont take the time to learn how to fully adjust their coilovers and/or take the time to put in time at the track to find out what settings work best on their car. Where as a spring/shock combo performs well pretty much right out of the package with very little adjustment.

2. Maximum handling potential on the track is different than maximum handling potential on real streets - Like I said before coilovers do have higher potential limits given a few factors are present. Because coilovers all utilize very stiff linear springs they are much more apt to skip and bounce on road surfaces that are less than perfect (yes this trait can be mostly avoided with a well valved shocks and proper tuning but again this takes a lot of R&D on the manufacturer side and a lot of trial and error on the users side) Progressive springs generally are considered better when you want to travel at speed over less than perfect surfaces especially in a car like ours with relativly little weight and beam suspension in the back which makes us suspecially susceptible to the back end loosing contact with the road when it encounters bumpy situations.
Just like my buddies kit car has coilovers and is pretty stiffly sprung and handles AMAZING but only on a track, on the street I would never push that thing as mid corner if you hit a bump the tires will loose contact with the road and you will lose control of the car.

Seeing how your in NY if you want maximum performance on the street aka less than perfect pavement, (which is the type you have in NY) than you might find the stiff linear springs of coilovers to be too nerve racking at high speeds on less than perfect roads and you might limit the car because you dont feel comfortable pushing it thus the car may never reach its limits.

I think a lot of people think coilovers handle a ton better because they use linear springs thus it gives the driver a "hardwired connection to the road type of feel" which gives lots of feedback through the wheel and faster initial responses to small inputs but that doesnt meen that this will nessecarily equate to faster lap times.

Let me get my Eibachs and SFCs installed and we will how much performance we can get from a spring/shock combo. I am planning on doing the Subframe Bushings too and LTB, so after that my car should be pretty much maxed out when it comes to suspension/chassis mods.

 

yes...absolutely. Too low and the control angles turn "upward," which typically causes bump steer and an incorrect roll center.

here's a graphic that BEJAY posted in teh autocross forums that gives you an idea what I'm talking about. Note the angle of the LCA when the car is too low. Yeah, it's a sentra, but it's the same idea for our cars.

 

Well, I wouldn't completely agree with that. Those who buy coilovers for performance do make sure that everything is set up properly, choose proper springs rates and corner balance them.

Skipping bumps argument might be true in a theory, but I rode in two maximas equipped with coilovers, ksport (9kg/mm front 7kg/mm rear) and TEIN SS (7kg/mm front 6 kg/mm rear), and both of these cars seemed to go over potholes and bumps much better than my "soft" stock suspension. Every time I go a little too fast on a bumpy road in my car I feel that the tires spend some time off the ground. I did not feel anything like that in those tow maximas.

 

Sounds good.