bvenvert

I've owned both the 3.0 and 3.5 and without question, the 3.5 out of the box, leaves the 3.0 by the side of the road. I drove a 2000 Max Se for 132K, great car with ony minor problems (MAF) and it ran like a top when I sold it.

I replaced it with an 03 SE ME TE and I immediately noticed a better powerband with the 3.5 over the 3.0. Not to mention I love the additional options on the 03.

You really can't go worng with either, but I love the 3.5 in my new one.

9DTALON

iTrader: (1)

I've driven a 3.5 auto and it seemed hard to judge. I hate auto trannies though, it always seems hard to gauge HP through the slush-o-matic's, but I did def. notice the harshness of the 3.5 to the 3.0. Anyways the extra HP in stock form and an available six speed makes it a winner in my book. I got such a good deal on my 00' though I had to take it. It sure is a silky smooth V6 though. Keep in mind too that 3 liters is the "ideal" size for performance. Look at some of the most well known V6 sports cars out there and the overwhelming number of them that are 3.0L. Square engine= nice even power band. 3000gt, 300zx, NSX, etc.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Where the hell did I say at the wheels? 280 HP crank = ~230WHP, which is easily achieved with just headers on a 3.5.

Since the original poster did not specify I assumed he meant at the wheels, simply because 280WHP all motor from a 3.0 is ridiculously out of reach.

Thanks for clarifying. What you need is a VQ35, a set of ebay cams, headers, full exhaust system, E-manage Ultimate, an FPR, and the best intake manifold you can fab/buy.

There are way too many G35's and 350z's on my350z.com putting out between 400 and 550rwhp on stock engines to say the VQ35 isn't boost friendly. 550whp is like 3 times what the engine puts out stock.

Yes there are a lot of blown engines but there's also alot of people throwing on TT kits with zero tuning and agressive stock timing at high rpms. I remember reading that most of the blown VQ35's showed signs of severe detonation.

Considering this is a high compression N/A engine with lightweight rods not meant to be boosted I'm not sure there's any proof that the 3.0 likes boost better. How many stock 3.0L's are there pushing between 400 and 550whp? And how many see the torque numbers that turbo 3.5's put out?

The 3.5 block is 35 pounds lighter. It also has plastic valve covers vs aluminum for the 3.0.

One thing that most should agree is that the 3.5 sounds better

It certainly is; http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=476819

3.0L's with extended rev limiters and VI's have awesome top end.

Larrio Motors

iTrader: (23)

The proof is in terms of the physical makes of the motors. The 3.0 is more boost reliable due to less aggressive timing, shorter stroke, different rod linkage design, and the original roots from the vq30det in japan. You can compare the hp/tq potential between two completely different motors (lighter components, more displacement, and different manifold and head designs)

And your argument about how ppl slap on TT kits on the 350z/g35 making 3 times stock output is moot. The 3.0 application is limited to the fwd platform of a maxima, not many people you are going to see wanting to making 400+ hp in this sort of application. The torque numbers from the 3.5 is due to the extra displacement, not necessarily contributing to the fact that it is more boost friendly than the 3.0

rmd0311

iTrader: (4)

I drove alot of cars when shopping for the Max. Unfortunately I could not find a 6Spd to test drive, but did test drive the 03 Auto. Apart from the lights and the engine, I see no difference between the two.

I love my 3.0. I had the VQ35 on the Pathfinder and I guess it's just not the same. The pathfinder is one heavy vehicle...

I had to drive 150 miles to get my car, and there was an 02 about 90 miles away. Manual Tranny's that is. The 02 was about a k more but had 15k miles more than the 01. This made me decide to get the 01.

Rocket3004

sorry if its a n00b question or has been discussed, but all the threads I searched for said something about the hood not clearing, but nothing about gains to be had...

MaxBoost925

iTrader: (33)

A33 VQ35DES 5-speed FTW!

bigEL

Maybe I missed something obvious here, but why would you consider getting another '00-01 max, if you already own a '00 max? Either keep what you got and mod it, or get the 3.5L. I'm personally biased towards the 3.5L. I don't have firm numbers to back me up, but I'm guessing that it'll be cheaper to bring a 3.5L to 280whp, than to get a 3.0L to the same point.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

That doesn't have anything to do with the actual 3.5 motor.
Ehhhh.... A shorter stroke |= automatically stronger motor. Rod linkage design? Sure nissan went with the weaker rod bolt setup instead of the stud/nut to save weight, but that can be easily remedied.
Define "boost friendly".


I still haven't seen any concrete evidence that would suggest the 3.0 motor is any stronger under boost than the 3.5.

chr0nos

iTrader: (1)

here is my two cents. both cars have some problems. i don't beleive one is more prone to break than the other.
go test drive the 5.5 gen, and see if you like it more than the 5th gen. than make your desision. only you know what's right for you.

BlackBIRDVQ

iTrader: (15)

........... at 200K miles a 3.0L will be purring just like it was leaving the dealership lot.

200K miles on a 3.5L - you better buy some stock in Castrol or Mobil to keep feeding oil into that sucker, just ask GBAUER.

If you have the $$, skills and once again $$$... you can make a 3.0L just as fast, look at DandyMax- 3.0L with bolt ons runing 13.1s in the 1/4 mile in his 4th gen at 104MPH. Fastest 3.5L runs 12.6@106MPH... we are talking NA motors here. There is no doubt in my mind that a 3.0L can do 12 second 1/4 runs all motor, as DandyMax will prove shortly I would love to show the same, but I do not drag race.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Have you seen a 200k 3.5 that WASN'T purring like a kitten? If not, your statement is subjective.

I'd be willing to bet that the valve cover baffles have much to do with the oil consumption. If you've ever looked at the 3.5 valve covers you'd know what i mean. There's no evidence yet that the motor itself is to blame.

Wait til the 3.5 4th gen boys get an EU up and running like dandymax has. It's only, oh i dunno, the best freaking tuning tool the maxima community has seen. Unfair comparo thus far.

BlackBIRDVQ

iTrader: (15)

No but just ask GBAUER how much oil his engine uses, sometimes I think Nissan thought it was a 2 stroke engine that required use of a gas/oil mix to run properly :P


I have seen the valve cover baffles, and there is no way that "its what causes oil loss". How can they hold 1qt per 1K miles ? It makes no sense. Oil is dissapearing out of the engine somewhere, it sure as he11 aint getting trapped in the valve covers.

3.5L swaps into 4th gens are NOT that impressive to say the least. They do not put out the same power they would in a 5.5 gen because of the lack of CVTC. Sure they put out more power than *4th gen USIM stock* VQ30 does, but... for the price of the swap you can have similar if not better results in a 3.0L. Eighter way, people will continue supporting the bigger is better motor, and I will stand behind my slow, old tech 3.0L...... which just happens to have no problem with 3.5Ls, but I won't start with that.

Have fun whatever you are driving.... atleast my engine is not a wanna be 2 stroke requireing oil with every fuel stop

nismology

iTrader: (8)

The baffles are there to trap the oil mist and allow it to drip down while letting the gasses through, not to hold the oil there. If the design isn't as good, it will trap less oil, period. Is there any evidence that suggests the oil control rings are letting oil by into the CC?



Now i know you're just plain biased. How is 13's trapping anywhere from 100-104 MPH with bolt-ons, no tuning, and with the stock crap IM not impressive? Here's the difference, low 14's/high 13's represent the faster extreme of the typical bolt-on 3.0's with VI and tuning (timing advance and a/f) and represents the slower extreme of the typical A32 3.5 swap with just bolt-ons.

Much of the cost of the 3.5 swap is labor. If you DIY it can be a very economical performance upgrade. Also there's more top-end power to be had by having the cams drilled with a little more retard and modifying the stock IM, but that's for another thread.

........

BlackBIRDVQ

iTrader: (15)

Yes, look at the amount of blowby people get.... how would you explain the whole oil catch can idea on some peoples cars- that still loose oil ? Don't you think that ALL those engines that Nissan has repleaced with NEW ones due to oil consumption could have been saved if they knew that the "baffles" in the VCs are the culprit of oil starvation to the timing chain- aka rattle, aka no oil in the engine, rattle rattle rattle.... I think you need to get a job over at Nissan cause you have figured out the massive oil consumption problem every Nissan engine (pretty much) has had since 2002. QR25DE- based on "VQ" technology, have you seen the recalls ? VK45DE - based on the "VQ" technology, used in FXs, Q45s, M45s- has oil burning problems.... and lets not forget the VQ35DE. Nissans engines are about as reliable as anything Domestic, problem with Nissan- they burn oil, domestics just leak it out.




Alright, I dunno if you have ever heard of a fellow .org-er by the name of NEAL. He ran mid 13s in his 4th gen without any problem, without headers- just simple bolt ons and MEVI.

The labor costs..... well for me it doesn't cost me a DIME to install anything I would wish for on my own car. Engine will cost you about 1K dollars for a nice low mileage one- shipped... then you need to swap all kinds of things over from a 3.0L onto the 3.5L. Then you have the downtime of your car not runing as it doesn't have the 3.0L in it already, you spend countless hours on the .org asking people for help.... and at the end you end up with a car that looks soo ghetto under the hood I would be ashamed to open it up- yes I've seen some clean swaps, but most of them look like chernobyl melt down. If you end up paying someone to install it you are looking at around 2K dollars for everything. Then you will need a new clutch, buncha little parts here and there when doing the swap, and you will end up with 2500 invested with the install- and this is a rough minimum estimate. For 2500 dollars I can make a 3.0L 5th gen run low 13s, that is with me installing and tuning all the parts.

And at the end my 3.0L is still runing smooth and I dont need a case of oil in the trunk for it, like the 2 stroke 3.5L.

We can go on and on for ever.... but you will NEVER convince me, or prove to me that a 3.0L is inferrior.

Larrio Motors

iTrader: (23)

Yes, but its all part of the topic though. The ECUs in most of the 3.5's as a package runs more timing advance than than the 3.0.

Shorter stroke can attribute to a less-likely engine failure under boost in the high rpm range. Now i'll be the first to admit this is just a personal opinion and I can't offer any definitions of physics or other technical know-how from our other more informed org members. As for the weaker rod design, that is easily remedied by spending more money (as with anything else then also)

Boost friendly in my opinion would be the engine's ability to survive under boost, thereby making one engine more friendly than another in comparison. This also takes into account cost (slapping in a turbo kit without the necessity of new pistons, rods, ECU alterations, etc and running reliably once the boost is turned up)

you won't, its simple as that. With the 3.5 being used in so many Nissan applications, who in the world is going to mod a fwd maxima 3.0 to the moon with boost? Although there are some individuals that have been using the 3.0or various hybrids in their applications (Jim Goughary's 350z, the JGTC car, and the supposed 3.2 hybrid top secret 350z)

Flip94ta

I'd take a 3.5L, but then again I like to turn wrenches.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

You still didn't answer my question. I asked you if the oil control rings were to blame for letting oil into the CC. If not, explain to me why the VQ35 burns oil if not for the valve cover design. And that "timing chain rattle" BS was unnecessary and childish. Grow up...
He also ran a 14.8 stock. How many other 4th gens have pulled that off? Furthermore, what about the weight reduction and the JWT ECU? What about the near redline clutch dump on slicks that it took to run his best time? A32 3.5 swaps are routinely running 13's on street tires with no tuning, stock redline, and the stock IM.

The swap can be done for around 1k or 1500 if you want headers. Now tell me...how many 5th gen 3.0's are running in the low 13's? If it was that simple, there would be quite a few.

No care. Good day...

Fr33way™

iTrader: (23)

VQ30....
Stiffer valve springs and lower piston speeds in boosted applications FTW.

For stock/bolt-on cars the 3.5 is the easy choice for better/easier performance.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Valve springs don't care how much power a car is making. Furthermore, stroke and piston speed isn't necessarily directly related to power handling cabability under boost.

BlackBIRDVQ

iTrader: (15)

Reason VQs are burning oil is because of oil getting past the rings and being burned in the combustion chamber. Its a documented problem with QRs, and VK motors- both of which are "based off VQ".

So you do not acknowledge the defeat huh ? It doesn't matter, his 4th gen runs 13s, kinda like stripped, NO AC, no PS, slicked out 5.5 gen of SR20DEN which ran 12.6 with every possible free "mod" and weight reduction done to it.


Have you looked at the 5th gen forum ? most people here are NOT big into performance, and the select few who are- just so happen to own the 2 stroke Maximas. Most Maximas here are heavy wheel-equipped, body kited slow automatics, and people care more about bling than anything else. This is WHY we don't see any fast 3.0Ls. But thats alright, I will keep my secrets in my 3.0L to myself. You won't ever see me post a thread on this forum about how much power I have. Which is more than 95% of 3.5Ls on this forum, I do not need people complaining, or telling me its IMPOSSIBLE. Take care.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Believe me, an N/A 3.5 is capable of very impressive 1/4 mile times. It just is usually handicapped by a heavier curb weight out of the box. Weight is the enemy.

If DandyMax swapped to a 3.5 in the same car, with the same gearing but did everything he did to the 3.0 to the 3.5 (the regular breathing mods, E-U tuning, and an intake manifold that peaks in the mid 6000's) he'd have a much, much faster car. And I believe that's what he plans to do. And what's wrong with that? Anything you can do to the 3.0L, you get more power doing the same to the 3.5. And junkyard VQ's are so cheap, why not?

IMO we still haven't seen what an N/A VQ35 is capable of. We have 3200+ lbs (and that is not even counting the driver and gas) 350z's running high 12's at 105-107 mph on stock cams and stock gears. Their cars are somewhat heavy to make real N/A monsters so these guys usually don't bother past the basic bolt ons and good tires. Then they go FI or sell their car.

And until you actually own a 200k mile VQ35, your quote above is pointless.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

How so? I trapped 105 with H/I/E and stock 3.5 intake, stock ECU/stock rev limit. What does a 3.0 5-speed trap with the USIM and H/I/E? 96, maybe 97 miles per hour. 8-9 mph difference for a raw, stock motor. That is huge.

3.5L 4th gens can give SUPERCHARGED 3.0L's with non-stock pulleys a run for their money. Don't try and tell me there's not a huge difference in output out of the box.

They put out the same peak numbers and with lower TQ under the curve. That just makes it easier to launch on street tires. Me and 96sleeper have pulled 2.0 60 foots on our stock tires. That's because the powerband is alot more progressive with a 3.5/3.0 timing chain setup. But the top end is basically the same (check the trap speeds again).

Trap speed = true power to weight. And all 3.5L 4th gens are trapping north of 100 mph.

Really? I hadn't noticed. I went from dead hooking every gear stock to just barely hooking *most of the time* in 2nd. I went from 91-92 mph traps to 103-105. Anyone who experiences a similar change in their cars (ask FI guys) will tell you it's a HUGE difference. It's like going turbo on mild boost.

3.5L swap can be done for roughly 1000$. So, 1000$ in mods, and you're trapping 100 mph (up from 91-92 mph stock, if your car is still in good shape). That's like bolting on an SC kit to the 3.0L, except it only costs 1 grand and it's certainly more reliable than a supercharged 3.0L.

What does it take to make a 3.0L trap 100 mph? More than 1000$.

3.5 swap is the best "bang for the buck" mod for 4th gens. 40whp and 40wtq for 1000$ is roughly 25$/HP & TQ. Check all available mods for maximas and you'll see that's VERY hard to beat. That and the Y-pipe. That's why people are swapping, because it's a logical, sound decision compared to most mods.

You have never backed any of your claims with trap speeds or track times. If your car does not pull a high to mid 13 at 103-105 mph on average every day street tires I don't see how you're in any position to bash 3.5 swapped 4th gens.

Especially considering that a 3.5L 4th gen is worth maybe 4,000$. Very, very hard to beat performance wise in a 10-year old sedan.

I just don't understand why some 3.0L owners hate the new engine and seem very bitter about it. Even after I swapped to the 3.5 I've always had alot of respect for the original engine and what it is capable of. You'll never see me bad mouthing the older motor.

The 3.0L has been around in one form or another since late 1993, the 3.5 was introduced barely 5 years ago. The aftermarket will catch up. And when it does, people will shut the f*** up.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

VQ-on-VQ hate is super . Don't know how else to say it...

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

I got my engine for 650 shipped, and the swap took 3 days for me. Not much downtime, as I started on a weekend. I never spent countless hours asking for help, I just researched and planned out what I had to do, and bought what I needed to buy beforehand (not too much, i reused most of the 3.0 hoses). I got this swap done for a little less than 1100, including engine, clutch, and all miscellaneous items. 2500 isnt a rough minimum estimate, as I charge 2k for a 3.5L swap INSTALLED including clutch. I'm going to the track this week, hopeing to run 13's, and i'm very confident with attaining it. If you can make a 5th gen 3.0 run 13's with 1100 untuned, then good luck to you.


And my install looks as clean as any other install i've seen, other ones meaning the work done by tilleys99. Some other .org members can attest to this. if other installs look like crap, they're cutting corners, and that's where they run into problems.