Warning: I take no responsibility if you total your car, or die following my advice! Or fall asleep during the next 2700 words.

My quest for a proper handling and braking, daily driver Maxima, on a budget.

The basic suspension design (or, evaluating the suspension situation):
The 4th and 5th generation Nissan Maxima features a MacPhearson strut front suspension with lower L-arms and an anti-sway bar. The rear suspension features a torsion-beam attached to the chassis by left and right side trailing arms. The trailing arms are welded to the torsion-beam, and serve to locate the rear beam longitudinally (front-to-back) as well as provide a mechanical link by which the rolling resistance of the torsion beam, can be engaged by the dynamics (swaying) of the chassis. An articulated lateral link (a sophisticated form of a panhard rod) locates the rear torsion beam laterally (side-to-side). On 4th gen Maximas, the lateral link is placed forward of the torsion beam, on 5th gens it is placed behind the torsion beam. The engineers determined that by locating the lateral link further away from the trailing-arm-to-chassis attachment points, reduced instances of snap-oversteer. The lateral link in the 5th gens also has stiffer bushings.

The rear torsion beam suspension (often called a multi-link beam) is often miss-understood. It is not a “solid” rear axle. Being a torsion-beam, it actually twists under torsional loads as the body of the car leans in a turn. In this way, it acts as the anti-sway bar for the rear suspension. Under all other loads, it behaves as a solid beam, meaning it securely locates the position of the rear wheels (that are attached by spindles at each side of the beam).

The torsion beam suspension has some advantages and disadvantages compared to typical independent suspensions (MacPhearson Strut, Double-Wishbone).

Disadvantages:
- Greater unsprung mass, although the beam is not terribly heavy, the added mass does increase the inertia and momentum of the suspension, slowing response somewhat.
- No provision for camber or toe adjustment. Not really an issue for street cars, but for racing, the beam must be bent to adjust camber.
- Any changes in the geometric position of one wheel, alter the geometric position of the other wheel inversely. Meaning: if the right wheel rises to roll over a large bump, the left wheel is directly affected by that movement.

Advantages:
- While unsprung mass may be somewhat greater, overall mass is reduced, primarily because the torsion beam does not require a subframe assembly.
- Lower cost of production.
- Improved packaging efficiency.
- Potentially lower tire wear because tires are always parallel, and perpendicular with the road (unless beam is altered).
- Fewer wear points in the suspension.

Aside from reduced overall-mass, the torsion beam does not seem too appealing to a car enthusiast, especially one concerned with optimizing vehicle handling. However, it is what we have to work with, and performance wise, while not optimal, it is still a sound design, and works quite well.

The weaknesses in the Maxima’s suspension:
While the Maxima was obviously designed with a sporty pretense, its basic function is as a family sedan, and the compromises made in the engineering of the suspension reflect this, even in the SE. The 2000-2001 SE serves as my basis for all of my assessments. I own a 01 SE 5spd, and have put 181,000 miles onto its odometer (198,000miles total), miles accrued over everything from steady interstate cruising, to hair-raising banzai runs through snaking mountain roads. However, all of my assessments should be applicable to any 5th gen. Maxima.

Complaints:
-Rear suspension can bottom out in high speed “dips”.
-Rear end feels firmer that the front when going over bumps.
-While body roll is quite minimal, the body does feel like it “moves around” too much.
-Typical FWD understeer
-Inside front tire loses traction too easily when cornering
-Aesthetically: 1. Front wheel well gap is too large, especially with manual transmissions. 2. -Rear wheels are spaced closer together (track width) than the fronts, make the rear wheels look more “inset” into the wheel well.
-Wheel hop during tire spin.

Causes:
-Front suspension is “undersprung” in relation to comparatively high rear spring rates.
-Insufficient dampening in the rear suspension.
-Soft bushings, primarily the engine mounts and rear trailing arms.
-For (apparently misguided) aesthetic reason, Nissan designed the wheel opening in the front fenders to be much larger than the opening in the rear. This creates a larger gap between the tires and fender on the front, than in the rear. It’s not so terrible looking on a stock car, but if the car is lowered an equal amount in the front and rear, it becomes very noticeable (think H&R springs).

Aftermarket Suspension Solutions:
Springs:
Being that the Maxima is not a popular vehicle among serious performance enthusiasts, suspension component offerings from the aftermarket are limited, and what is available lacks extensive R&D (Research and Development). In particular, the selection of aftermarket performance springs. A problem with the 4th and 5th generation Maxima is the limited rear suspension travel. Nissan engineers appear to have dealt with this by installing higher rate springs in the rear than in the front. This could also have been done to limit understeer, since the soft bushings in the rear torsion beam reduce the roll resistance effectively provided by the beam (increasing understeer). Ideally, the front and rear spring rates should vaguely reflect the front and rear weight distribution, and fine tuning of handling balance should be made through the sway bars (in this case the rear torsion beam). However, NVH (Noise, Vibration, Harshness) concerns required the use of supper soft, fluid filled, bushings in the rear torsion beam. Combined with the limited rear suspension travel, meant that even though the front end carries twice as much weight as the rear, higher rate springs were installed in the rear.

Aftermarket spring manufacturers have been forced to follow Nissans lead. The problem lies in the fact that as the rear suspension is lowered, spring rates must rise exponentially to counter bottoming out. Regardless, bottoming-out is still an issue with most aftermarket springs, even with relatively mild-drop springs like the H&R Sports. The best solution to this, from the aftermarket, is in the form of fully adjustable Coil Over suspension. However the higher cost, and ride quality issues, limits their appeal to many enthusiasts, especially those that want to retain ride quality suitable for a daily driven sedan.

Rear Anti-Sway Bars:
Rear sway bars have been a popular mod for Maximas, especially ones with otherwise stock suspensions. They reduce body roll somewhat, sharpen the chassis’ reflexes, and dial out some understeer. There is a problem however, and it shows itself in the form of “snap-oversteer”. It appears to be more of a concern for 4th gen Maximas, than 5th gens., primarily because of the relocated rear lateral link on 5th gens. But is can also rear it’s ugly head on 5th gen. Maximas with stiff rear aftermarket springs. The problem lies in the large diameter, supper squishy, fluid filled, stock rear trailing-arm bushings. The “slop” in the bushings does not allow for appropriate torsional resistance to the rear beam, however, if the car is pushed hard enough in a turn, and enough weight is transferred to the outside wheel, the trailing arm bushing can bottom, thus fully engaging the torsional resistance of the rear beam, producing the sudden, “snap,” oversteer.

A Possible Solution:
Stage 0 (Aesthetics): The stock rear track width is a total of one inch narrower than the front, creating that “inset rear wheel” look. Ideally, to correct this, you would use 12.5mm spacers on both rear wheels, but the closest that is available are 15mm, close enough that they will appear identical. Some people get uncomfortable with the concept of wheel spacers. The big two issues are insufficient wheel stud length, and excess wheel bearing wear. Use ONLY high-end wheel spacers like the H&Rs. They are aluminum, and come with longer wheel studs (that must be pressed into the stock hubs). A 15mm spacer will not wear out the stock wheel bearings, this is no different than if you used aftermarket wheels with a slightly different offset. The longer wheel studs will provide the same amount of lug nut to wheel-stud thread contact as stock. This will bring your rear wheel outward, and inline with the front wheels.

Stage 1 (Improving the look and handling, retaining a smooth ride): Since the rear stock springs are already reasonably firm, the rear wheel gap is not excessive, and suspension travel is limited, consider using the stock SE rear spring. Now you need to find a front spring from the aftermarket that will complement the stock SE rear spring. Since the H&R sport provides the least drop in the front suspension, and is only marginally firmer than the stock spring, it is probably the best choice. On a manual transmission 5th gen. SE, the front and rear wheel well gaps will be nearly identical (within a ¼ inch difference). As well, the firmess of the H&R Sport spring in the front, better matches the firmness of the stock SE rear spring. Since the stock rear shocks are already underdamped for the stock SE springs, and slightly stiffer springs are being installed on the front, aftermarket struts/shocks are HIGHLY suggested. Since we need only slightly more dampening than the stock struts/shocks, the Tokico HP (Blues) are nearly ideal. You could use Illuminas, but the HPs are such a good match, I don’t believe it is worth the extra investment.
Now, with the rear torsion beam being tuned to the soft stock front spring, installing the firmer spring in the front will (and does) increase understeer. To balance out the chassis, a rear anti-sway bar should be installed. I went with the progress bar, and it combined with the H&R front spring creates a better than stock front and rear handling balance (almost neutral in steady state cornering), keep reading for a more detailed evaluation.

Stage 2 (So you want to get serious about handling): Time to get rid of the squishy rubber suspension bushings. I suggest Energy Suspension bushings throughout (rear trailing arms bushings, front lower control arm bushings, front sway bar frame bushings, etc) If your car is high mileage (over 100k) then it is probably about time anyway. The only “serviceable” bushings in the Maxima’s suspension are for the front sway-bar, so the rear trailing links and front control arm bushings require more than basic tools and skill to replace. If your not sure that you can handle it, then you probably can’t, and/or shouldn’t. A NOTE TO INSTALLERS: put the bushings in a freezer the night before you install them. The urethane will shrink just enough so that they can be installed. What ever you do, DO NOT use oil, grease, penetrating fluid, KY Jelly, or whatever, to make installation easier. Freezing the bushings, and lots of patience, should be enough. This is where the caveat of this mod comes in. Once you start trying to remove the old bushings, there is no going back. If you can’t complete the job, or botch it beyond recognition, your car will be without a suspension! But, once you succeed, and it’s not really that hard, if you know what you are doing, then you have just transformed your sloppy family sedan into an honest enthusiast’s ride. You wont even mind the slight increase in noise and vibration, it’s worth it. Read below for a more detailed review.

HIGHER MILEAGE CARS: do not forget about the ball joints, tie rod ends, wheel bearings and such. A higher performing suspension will put more stress on these (already worn) parts.

Finally: Tires! Your car cannot outperform its tires, without spiraling off the pavement at least. Check out the reviews on Tirerack.com, and find the right tires for your need.

My personal experience with each of these mods:

H&R 15mm Rear Wheel Spacers: Rear wheels now appear even with front wheels. No other change noticed in last ~50k miles.

Blehmco Stage 1 Lower Tie Brace:
No verifiable effect

H&R Front Springs, Tokico Shocks/Struts:
Excessive understeer. Poor front and rear balance. Improved forward traction in corners. Back end feels even more sloppy. Front feels equally as “firm” as stock rear going over large bumps. Front suspension can bottom out. Reduced brake dive. Overall handling is WORSE than stock, understeer, understeer, understeer! Slight increase in body roll. Almost perfectly matched front and rear tire-fender gaps, resulting in a noticeable forward-rake of the body. Headlamps and fog lamps required re-aiming. Rear suspension no longer bottoms in high-speed dips.

Progress Rear Sway Bar: Ah, much better. Almost “neutral” balance in steady cornering. Reduced body lean, however initial body roll remains in transitions. Pronounced initial understeer during abrupt transition, hard-slaloming, but shifts to near-neutral as body settles into steady cornering attitude. Car feels buttoned-down and tossable. Confidence inspiring. Rear end still feels a little numb. Quicker steering response. Stock-level ride quality. A significant improvement in overall handling quality. Front-suspension can bottom out during high frequency slaloming. Rear suspension never bottoms out. Not responsive to trail braking.

Energy Suspension Rear Trailing Arm Bushings: Significantly reduced body movement (roll). “Initial (transitional) understeer” problem eliminated. Steady state cornering is very neutral. Very buttoned-down and stable. The car is not loose or twitchy as I was fearing it might become, you really have to work hard to unsettle the car. Small road imperfection are more easily felt through the rear suspension, sharp impacts come through more clearly (i.e. railroad crossings). Super-quick steering response. Rear suspension feels much more “connected” with the rest of the chassis. Sloppiness and numbness greatly reduced. Front-suspension can no longer be bottomed out during repeated high frequency slaloming. Slow speed handling is improved as much or more than high speed handling. I can’t wait to get this to the autocross. Update: I tried trail-braking in a decreasing radius turn to see if the tail could be coaxed out, it sure as hell can. However, the rear broke loose predictably, slightly, and controllably, a slight steering correction brought the back end back in line, didn’t even get the heart rate up. I love the way this thing handles now. I find myself making unnecessarily sudden steering inputs just to enjoy the new steering response, and seeking out sharp S-turns, where before the Maxima was most at home on long, continuous, on or off ramps. Update: don’t know if I am just getting used to it, but there does not seem to be a significant increase in noise or vibration. 100-115mph runs through roughly paved country roads: feels stable, inspires confidence, need grippier tires! The springs and dampers are soft enough to absorb mid corner bumps without upsetting the chassis. The car can more easily be coaxed in to tail-out oversteer in bad weather, but is still stable if you take conditions into account, and don’t drive like an idiot, otherwise, you will end up *** first in a ditch.

Alutec Front Strut Tower Brace: A strong and high quality strut tower brace, for a reasonable price. However, I’m honestly not sure if it made a difference. Probably should spend your money elsewhere (retirement…).

Energy Suspension Front Sway Bar Bushings:
Coming next month…

Energy Suspension Front Control Arm Bushings, Moog HD Ball Joints, Moog HD Tie Rods, Moog Camber Adjusters, Custom Urethane’d Stock Motor Mounts, Energy Suspension Front Subframe Bushings, Stickier Kumho Tires:
Coming next month…

Brakes:
I wont ramble on much further. Fixing the insufficient stock brakes was not so difficult. The biggest complaint I had of them is the ease with which the rotors would “warp.” Warp in quotations, because that is not an accurate description of the actual reason for the vibration, check out the StopTech.com site if you want to learn more about “rotor warping.”

’05 Maxima Rotors, Blehmco Caliper Relocation Brackets, Hawk HPS pads front and rear, Valvoline Synthetic Brake Fluid: Stunning improvement in braking ability, especially at triple digit speeds. Will engage ABS at all 4 wheels in a panic stop at 75+mph. Inspires great confidence during high speed driving. Dusting-levels similar to stock pads. Good bite when cold, great bite after one hard stop. A great set-up for the street or autocross, However, I would recommend installing ’05 Maxima calipers, instead of using the 00-01 calipers with the Blehmco brackets. When I bought the relocation brackets, it was not yet known that the 05 calipers would bolt on, and allow the 05 rotors to be used.


… just my .02

 

Why not use 04 rotors? Nice write-up. Do your fingers hurt?

 

I think 04 rotors are the same, but the calipers are different. I wrote this over a 2 month period... finally decided to just post it.

 

The 05 vs 04 calipers have different part numbers, but are functionally, mechanically, and dimensionally the same.

05 calipers are cheaper though.

 

And thats why you would want the 05 calipers

 

Unless you get them from a junkyard, like I did. When I did my swap, 05's were ... not really there.

 

I think this thread would be more pleasing if you made it into a audio tape.

 

cute



5678910

 

Great read,

I currently have 00 max se with 80k+ miles. Have a blown drivers front strut and am shopping for replacement/upgrades. Have been reading the boards for months, and really appreciate your insights here.

My max is an auto, and I have been leaning towards the Eibach springs and HP Blues to get me back into better shape. I have also been giving the RSB serious consideration as I have read that it helps balance the new springs and sticks.

Have you tried other springs or set ups or just fine tuned what you have now?

 

very interesting thread. I have a question about our suspension though. After the 5th generation maximas are lowered...it seems like that the driver side rear wheel "inset" more than the passenger side rear...what caused this and does it affect the overall handling? I'm currently running on Tein H-tech/ Tokico HP, SSR 18X8.5 (offset 45)...the front wheels are flush w/ the fender but the rear is a bit weird. The rear driver side wheel is inset more than the passenger side and it is quite noticable...can I put a 10mm spacer ONLY on the driver side rear? Thanks

 

another sticky....nice write up

 

Very good writeup, but I don't quite agree with some of the points you make:

I would also add:

- does not allow camber & toe change during hard cornering.

- provides more high speed stability on smooth roads due to its "more solid" design.


I do not think that these statements are correct. My stock SE suspension was pretty well balanced for a street driven car with a heavy front weight bias and a long wheelbase. I would also say that OEM shocks and springs are matched quite well. In fact, that's one of the few thing that I enjoyed when I had stock suspension.


Again, where did you get all this info from?


As far as I know, urethane bushings work better when lubricated.

Yea, this difference is very little during normal driving, but I noticed that steering inputs became noticeably more precise during hard cornering.


I also wanted to add that in my opinion, the main reason why non of us can make his/her Maxima handle as well as we want it to is because Maxima platform combines these three things: heavy front weight bias, long wheel base, and soft chassis; all other things come second and can be solved buy well engineered spring kits (like Eibach Pro or H&R) and other means that are widely known.

Can't agree with you more regarding the brakes and the bushings though...

 

You need to re-center the beam and it will get back to normal. Check this out:
http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...2&postcount=18

 

That is true. But those two points very closely related to each other.

As was stated, all my assessment are based on the experience with my '01 SE 5spd, which I purchased with 17,000 miles, so the suspension was still "fresh." I do not have a shock or spring dyno, so my conclusions are not entirely scientific. However, with as much time as I spent in this car, and as analytical as I can sometimes get, I got very in tuned with the cars behavior. And my assessment seemed to parrallel other opinions I have found. If anyone has the stock spring rate values, that would be of help. As far as the dampening goes, my complaint is primarily with the rear suspension, the front always seemed fine. The compression dampening seemed to me to be insufficient, rebound was ok. When I say that the compression dampening was insufficient, I mean insufficient given the suspension travel. In high speed dips, there was too high a rate of acceleration occuring in the rear suspension, for the given suspension travel, causing bottoming out.

Read above. As well as research over the last few years, reading some suspension engineering books (John Dixon), and having my assessments being backed up by specific predicted changes occuring in the car's handling dynamics, after each stage of modification.

I am refering to people lubing the OUTSIDE of the bushings to allow for easier installation. They cover all that in the installation instruction for the bushings. Just some people seem to ignore the directions.

I have the stage 1 bar, not sure which one you have, 1 or 2. I have been pushing the suspension quite hard, and I could never truely confirm that improvement were real, or just imaginary. It was just too subtle. However, I installed this bar when the rest of the suspension was stock.

Not sure what your point is here. Clearify?

 

My post merely states the line of reasoning I used when deciding how to modify the suspension on the Maxima. Judging by the experiences that other Maxima owners have had with the various aftermarket springs (H-Tech, Maxspeed, H&R, Eibach, Vogtland, etc.) each set had its own disadvantages that did not appeal to me and my preferences (either stance, ride quality, or handling) so I decided to go about it differently. You may or may not agree with my conclusions, that is up to you. Everyone has different preferences, especially when it comes to cars.

However, the results from my suspension modifications have exceeded my (possibly lofty) goals, of a good stance, that still looks stock-like (not "lowered"); has a compliant ride, excellent high speed stability even on bumpy undulating roads, near-neutral handling with the ability to "steer with the throttle" and tighten a line with trail braking, increased "feel" and feedback from the suspension (just enough to be able to tell what is going on, especially from the numb rear end), vastly improved steering response, and a suspension that never bottoms out even when the car is full of passengers, and doesn't empty out my bank account. The handling has improved to the point that this thing just might not make a fool out of itself at the autocross, something I'll find out next spring (I used to compete with the Supra TT and SE-R. The Maxima, to me, never felt "up to it" untill now)

The final list of mods includes:
Installed:
-Front Springs: H&R Sport
-Rear Springs: Original ’01 SE
-Tokico HP Shocks/Struts
-Progress Rear Anti-Sway Bar
-Alutec Front Strut Tower Brace
-Blehmco Stage 1 Lower Tie Bar
-H&R 15mm Hub-Centric, Aluminum Wheel Spacers (w/ Longer Wheel Studs)
-Energy Suspension Rear Trailing Arm Bushings
-17x7 G35 Sedan "Sport Package" wheels (lighter that stock 17s)
-Yokohama Avid V4 215/50 (high-performance all-season tires, soon to be retired)
-6th gen Brake Rotors
-Blehmco Caliper Brackets
-Hawk HPS Pads
-Valvoline Synthetic Fluid

In the garage, but not yet on the car:
-Energy Suspension Front Lower Control Arm Bushings
-Energy Suspension Front Sway-Bar Frame Bushings
-Moog Greaseable HD Ball Joints
-Moog Greaseable HD Tie Rod Ends
-Moog 1-deg Camber Adjusters
-Energy Suspension Front Subframe Bushings
-Custom Urethane Engine Mounts
-Energy Suspension Shifter Stabilizer
-Braided Clutch Pedal Line
-And I need some good tires...
-Motul 600 Brake Fluid

I'll try to post pictures...

 

I would be carefull running a RSB with stiff springs like the Eibachs. A better route might be to skip the RSB, and do bushings instead. I would also recommend Tokico Illuminas with Eibachs, not HPs.

 

But it really does look like you are stating the facts. First, you state your complains, and after that you explain them with what really sounds like facts... I also don't quite agree with your comments on stock springs and shocks. I agree that suspension travel is indeed an issue, but front springs certainly didn't feel too soft and the rear shocks felt just right for the springs. (I have 2000 SE 5-speed) I also don't think it's right to compensate for lack of suspension travel with stiffer dampers (overdamping,) because this will cause the suspension to react slower to driver's inputs and road imperfections, which will result in a poor handling and premature shock failure.


Well, I don't mean to sound offensive, but to me, it looks like you are trying to reinvent the wheel. There are already a few well engineered spring kits available for our cars that address the issue you posted in this thread and IMO, well engineered progressive spring kits will do a better job than the kit that was put together by a car enthusiast without knowing the spring rates and the compression point at which the rate changes (talking about front H&Rs.) So your writeup sounds like there are no good spring kits available for Maximas, all you have to do to make a well handling car out of a Maxima is to install some stiffer suspension with stiffer bushings, and your way of doing it is the only way that is correct.


Don't get me wrong, your writeup is indeed very informative, it's just I wanted to let others know the other side of the story to, sort of, supplement your writeup.

 

great read. I also agree with klop that the three biggest reasons our cars are not meant to handle is the heavy front end (the entire engine is in front of the front axle), horribly weak frame, and of course the long wheel base...However what you mentioned does make the maxima handle much better than stock

It's funny that I saw this because ES motor mounts, along with all the ES Poly bushings were going to be my next mod...can't wait!

 

I think your original writeup of everything is very good, and should be required reading for n00bs. Although there are a few points I disagree with, they are largely nitpicky and not worth discussing at this time.

I do, however, have to note a few things:
1. The Eibachs are not as stiff as their "rap" sometimes says. Having personally used about 5 different springs (and driven a similarly-setup maxima with H&Rs), I can honestly say that they are not significantly stiffer overall than Maxspeeds or H&Rs, particularly in the rear. The Eibachs, however, do have a better rate in the rear, which prevents any bottoming out. I have yet to bottom the rear out with Illuminas set to '3' and alot of weight in the trunk on the way to the track...I entirely disagree with "skipping" the RSB with Eibachs. As my car sits now, it has a balanced setup with slight understeer at the limit, depending on tire pressures. Even on the autocross course it is nearly impossible to induce snap oversteer, even when trying to.

Springs of course are subjective, but I have experience with H-Techs, Maxspeeds (linear), SE stock, H&R, and Eibach and I feel that the Eibachs beat all of the others in terms of pure performance, easily. The ride quality is actually quite good (I commute 25 miles each way on poor roads), and the drop is more "even" than H&R for those who are worried about looks. It's all subjective though..

2. Agree, Illuminas should be used for eibachs. that said, IMO they should be used for ANY aftermarket spring, except perhaps tein H-techs, which are extremely soft.

3. RSB...I would not trade mine for the world....still remains the single most noticeable suspension mod I have done apart from springs.

4. Having used the Stage1 and stage2 LTBs back and forth depending on autocross classing...my thougts are that the ST1 slightly improves steering response and stability under hard turning. The ST2 goes much farther, reducing body roll, camber change (to an extent) and considerably tightening up the steering.

5. You did, however, leave out one of the best ways to improve handling. Although you mentioned spacers for the rear, I feel that a lower offset all-around is a significant improvement in cornering and stability. I run an 18x8 wheel with 30mm offset all-around on the street, and a 17x8 with 35mm at the track. A wider track considerably improves handling, front and rear.

6. As to brakes...any brake changes are an upgrade. I did (in order):
- OEM with Hawk HPS pads
- 6th gen rotors with Blehm brackets and OEM calipers/Hawk HPS
- 6th gen rotors with 6th gen calipers and Hawk HPS
- 6th gen rotors with Blehm brackets and z32 calipers /Hawk HPS
- 2-piece Blehm/Coleman rotors w/ Blehm brackets and z32 calipers/Hawk HPS (current setup)

I feel that this is a logical train of upgrades, and each stage yeilded a noticeable improvement in braking, except the 2-pc rotors, which help more with handling and acceleration because of teh lighter weight....

7. The single most effective handling upgrade, from what I have heard from others who have done it, are teh subframe braces. The weak point of the maxima is not the suspension per se, but the noodle frame. Cars with good handling characteristics start with a stiff frame (look at BMWs), which the Maximas don't have. Someday I'll get around to SFCs...

Overall, a good read though. Hopefully some n00bs or suspension rookies will get a better idea of what they are looking at as they think about tackling suspension issues....

 

sticky, anyone??

 

not yet. it needs more discussion.

 

Ok, let me try to describe the dampening problem more specificly, in my opinion of course..., the rear suspension seemed to have proper dampening in most situations. However, the dampening curve seemed to fall off quickly, in my opinion of course..., during particularly high velocity suspension compression. Meaning, in my opinion of course..., that while the internal valving was fine for sane driving, certain situations pushed it beyond its design, again, in my opinion of course...

As far as spring rates go, while I have not seen published specifications for the Maximas spring rates from Nissan Corporate, the numbers floating on the internet indicate spring rate values which on the front end, are around 20-30 percent lower, than the rear rates. With the front end carrying twice as much sprung mass, I think it is as close to a fact as you can get that the rear is more stiffly sprung, untill you can find the actual, honest to god specifications.


No offense taken. I simply disagree that the large aftermarket companies "nailed it" when they designed springs for our car. All designs are a compromise, and I didn't like the compromises that they chose to take on the Maxima application. I think H&R came the closest to fitting my preferences, but honestly, the "butt sag" look that you get with manual tranmission Maximas with H&Rs just didn't do it for me. So I went about finding another way, and am satisfied with the results. If a certain aftermarket spring set is perfect for you, then fine.

[/QUOTE]

 

Horribly weak frame? Noodle Chassis? I don't agree with those assessments. Most of the "floppiness" and "looseness" in the chassis comes from the squishy bushings. "Structurally" the A33 is very respectible, a significant improvement over the 4th gens in that regards. My Max has ~200,000, it still feels solid.

 

interesting, considering my dash rattles over any decent-sized bump...it almost feels like my car is going to fall apart sometimes. The LTB helped it greatly, but now that I took it off because of fitment issues, it's doing the same crap as before

Also, if my car is on jackstands, I can tell that the frame is bending significantly because the doors are in a different position (ie: whenever I open them, I feel the door 'drop' down and it does not close right...)

 

It might be wise to "skip" the RSB if you run poly bushings in the rear trailing arms, with aftermarket rear springs. I would atleast advise going in stages, and not installing everything at the same time. With my stock rear springs, the RSB, and rear bushings, the car is near dead neutral in steady state cornering. You can tighten or loosen the line with the throttle. If someone jumps straight into eibachs, RSB, and trailing arm bushings, especially if they are not prepared, well, they might be in for a suprise. However, if anyone has that combination, feel free to chime in.

 

Maybe its more of a problem with cars with a sunroof I have never had those problems.

 

I strongly disagree. Japanese cars are KNOWN to be soft-framed and stiffly sprung for performance, as opposed to European performance sedans, which are stiff-framed with softer springs.

I'm not saying the Maxima frame is going to break or fall apart. And it is certainly an improvement over the 4th gens, that is true. But compared to any Euro sports sedan, the maxima is a noodle. Accept it.

People who have installed subframe braces have reported HUGE changes in handling response and in "frame serenity" on rough roads.

Well clearly....it's never a good idea to do more than one "mod" at a time. For suspension, where fine-tuning is desired, it is best to do one thing at a time, evaluate the results, and determine the next step. I wasn't suggesting just to buy all these things and bolting them on at the same time

Also the point should be made that most of the Joes on here do not push their car anywhere near the limits of its handling...ever.....

When i say "near the limit" I mean

 

out of curiosity, what cars have you previously owned?

 

btw, posting this in the suspension/braking sectin would have gotten better discussion. I foresee this thread just being 4 or 5 of us talking.....

 

But like I said before, with the stage II LTB the problem was gone, because it somewhat tightened things up...I know what a car with a strong frame feels like over bumps and the maxima is not one of them, sadly...


That's true if one were to jump in there and install everything at the same time, but how many people do that? I know I got my RSB several months after I got my springs/struts and before those I had my FSTB. I then got my LTB and rear wheel spacers because I noticed a LOT of oversteer and those components solved that problem and made my car very neutral.. Like you said, it's a testing procedure; you have to test one part to know what to do next..

 

Long ago I had a Mustang Cobra and Trans Am WS6 (Now those have noodle chassis's) 91 SE-R (Another Noodle Chassis) Most Recently a 1994 Supra Twin Turbo 6spd, with the typical engine and suspension mods. In all honesty, the Maxima feels much more solid than the Supra did. My prior job (inspecting cars for eBay listings and Carfax) had me driving a lot of different cars, usually by myself , examples: E55AMG, DB7, many 3-series and a few 5-series, including an 03? M3 which I was able to ummm, "properly test", in the mountains, A4s, A6s, an A8, an early 80s VERY LOW mileage M6, and countless other cars. So I am not a virgin to the ways of the "European car", "which me thinks you be over-esteeming". The 3-series is a fantastic car, but there are pleny of "wet noodle" europeans, late 90s A4 comes to mind, as well as the earlier 3-series cars. However you guys seem pretty decided in your opinions, who am I to question them?

 

IMHO, this site has way too many stickies as it is. SEARCH, SEARCH, SEARCH...

 

Clearly, when referring to European performance sedans, I am referring to BMWs.....but as much as I hate to admit it, my wife's old 2000 Jetta had a MUCH stiffer frame than my 2000 Maxima does....and the 1.8 Jetta is hardly considered a "performance sedan." Too bad the rest of that car sucked.

With the maxima on jackstands today I spent the day driving my wife's 04 mazda3...and even IT has a more substantial-feeling frame than does the maxima (and her care is a bone stock S 2.3)

You must have a factory freak maxima from the day they were "experimenting with titanium" or something....I'm not saying it's the flimsiest frame out there (looks like you have owned some of those), but the 5th gen maxima frame is nothing to write home about. I asked about your cars for context, and the list of what you've owned was surprisingly similar to what I expected to hear (my personal guess was: Fox-body mustang and 4th gen maxima)

I rode in a guy's 5th gen a couple years ago with stage 3 SFCs on it (I can't remember his org name, he sold the car in early 2005) and remember being amazed at how composed the entire car felt, even during hard cornering on bumpy roads. The frame was stiffened to the point that the suspension was actually working to its potential rather than transferring vibration everywhere. I also remember thinking how responsive the car felt when he did a quick double-lane change compared to mine (which, at the time, had RSB/FSTB/Maxspeeds/Illuminas/Bushings). I wish I had been able to drive it, but I've ridden shotgun in my own car as well, so I have a basis for comparison.

In any case, we can argue this until the cows come home since it's largely subjective, but I will continue to disagree with you as long as you continue to downplay the importance of frame stiffening to getting maximum handling from the 5th gen maxima.

 

I think much of that is the result, again only in my opinion, of the subframe braces raising the resonance frequency of the floor assembly. Unlike Mustangs, where subframe CONNECTORs became mucho popular, because the fox chassis and it's derivatives do not have a continuous unirail, and thus, "unconnected" subframes, the Maxima does have a continuous unirail, so significant changes in the torsional and bending rigidity are not as likely from modest reinforcement of the unirail. What is more likely, is that reinforcement of the unirail, will stiffen to floor assembly, reducing low frequency resonances. That means that after you hit a large bump, you will just feel the initial "impact" without the following vibrations. For this reason alone, again, this is all my opinion, its probably a worthwhile modification, or atleast "structural foaming" the unirail. But aside from improving "feel" it probably doesn't do a whole lot, again, just my opinion... But if you guys Maximas are as flemsy as you make it sound, maybe it would help. Again, who am I to question?

 

To be fair, I owned the 95 Cobra, in 1995. So its not like I just steped in out of the cold. But anyway, I have given my honest opinions. If they are all worthless, then let this thread desend into the forum black hole where it belongs. I have no more to say...

 

Just another few comments on what to expect on your "in the garage" mods (based on my personal experience):

- effect is fairly small, but is amplified if you run a stage 2 LTB.
effect is negligible by itself compared with new OEM bushings
great for maintenance. I thought about going this direction myself. Not really a performance enhancement per se, though.

assume these are camber bolts for the strut-to-spindle interface?

still sitting in my basement too...

why custom? Don't want ES engine mounts?

not entirely sure what this is....have you looked into Larrio's poly lower shift bushing for the 00-01's. Highly suggested!!!!

I noticed no difference at all compared to stock.

if handling was your goal, this should have been your first step, IMO.

haven't used Motul on the maxima, but ATE Blue has never failed me....

 

The Moog parts are technically not a performance enhancement, but are important for performance, given my mileage, and they hopefully will hold up well, they look and feel very well made, and are greasable. The Motul has been sitting in my garage for a while, it was meant originally for the Supra, but It might as well get used. I heard that the Energy Suspension Motor Mounts lowered the engine somewhat, which would interfere with the already tight clearance I have with the LTB, can you confirm or deny that rumor? I have been waiting till the current tires are "done" before replacing them, money is a little tight at the moment. They are at that point now... The shifter stabilizer I mentioned is a shifter stabilizer bushing. It for the B14, which supposedly will fit. Eye-balling it, it looks like the right size, well see...

I have been following the progress of your car over the years, its turning out nicely...

 

Nobody is comparing the maxima to the fox chassis except you.....we are comparing the maxima to other full-size performance sedans.

....btw, you deny that reduction of chassis unsettling and vibration is beneficial to handling, particularly on non-smooth surfaces?

 

As for the FSB and LCA bushings, Im not expecting big changes, except for the fact that my current bushings have 200k on them. So actually, I guess I am expecting a change... I consider them mostly a complement to the most effective bushing replacement, the rear trailing arm bushings. It is a modification that truely transforms the Maxima, and mostly for the better

 

thanks.....now, if it would only turn out to be a BMW M5 I like the maxima, but miss my sportscars

I can't confirm the motor mount issue...I will have to do some research. My LTB has a decent amount of clearance so I've never really looked too closely.

here's the bushing I was referring to for the shifter. One of the best inexpensive "mods" I've done...much more positive feel.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=467839


btw, I think you may be giving GBAUER a run for his money in terms of miles per year on the car. I drive alot and have a decently long commute and am only at 110K......