What mods would be needed to be done and please include an estimate a price range for this conversion.

 

You drive down to maxrev here in tempe az. hand them aprx 5000 bucks and say turbo it..

Adam

 

If they could do a 10 Psi. turbo and still have the price at 5G's Ill ship my car there from Connecticut in about 2 minutes

 

It's pretty close to Phoenix, but you could ship it to Tucson and spend around $3-4K for a 6psi T3/T4 Garrett setup. Not sure of his business name(he's an engineer that does it on the side, for fun!), but I've seen his work. A 502 hemi with twin T4 turbos and a TEC-II running 6psi of boost on pump gas put down ~1100hp and 950tq on the dyno. It wasn't even dialed in completely, just enough to get it ready for the piece of glass it was about to make home in. I can post a picture tomorrow at work if anyones interested.

 

indeed i am!!!!!!!!!

 

Will do.

 

You 4th and 5th gen guys are too much. Why re-invent the wheel? You can run about as much psi w/ the ALREADY available SC from Stillen. You can even run 10psi with the smaller pulley. I'm pretty sure you can do all this for UNDER $5000.

But if you want to spend more, run the same psi anyway and be the guinea pig for some shop, by all means go for it. IMHO for more than 10psi, you had better either build the hell out of the short block or have some kind of aftermarket stand alone engine management system(read add $1500 to the bill)

I would love to see a turbo VQ engine.

 

I just mentioned turbo because I hear all about those problems with the Stillen SC. Plus I would like more TQ early in the power band. I don't like the way the SC works with the more RPM, the more power. Need flat curves.

 

Supercharges traditionally build boost faster than turbos but it depends on the sc. The Vortech unit is a good one. To build boost early for a turbo, you will have to use a very small one that will not hold good boost in the higher rpms. Or you can use a ball bearing turbo but those are over $1000 each.If you think the SC has problems, just wait until you try to build a custom turbo set-up. The SC problems will look like kindergarden recess.

 

Okay I am sorry. SC for me

 

Im not going to say superchargers are bad because they are very good forced induction systems. But everyone seems to forget that if you where to push out 10 psi from a turbo you dont have the restriction of the belt and pully. Meaning you get so much drag(more power engine has to make to turn the pully) from the SC. I bet if i did a turbo at 6PSI i would have like 50 more HP then the SC's 100hp upgrade, granted i would have LAG where i wouldnt with a SC but i want to do something differant too. Everyone one on this forum wants or has a SC.(well most)Look at the 300zx...They basically have the same motor(basically) and the Zx can get like 600+hp out of the vG30dett.

 

Jeff92SE, i see a turbo VQ motor everyday! hehe, you seem to dislike turbo's alot. always discouraging everyone. One thing i always hated bout the supercharger kit is that it makes everything so crammmmmmed. With the turbo in, i have SOOOO much room to work, the turbo sits low and most of the piping is away from workin on the motor. I like it. if a person's reason to buy the turbo is cause of probs with the Supercharger kit...forget it! youll have sooo many probs with a turbo kit you'll ache to go back to stock again! haha.

oh the 3Z VG30DETT motor is not anything like the VQ. COMPLETELY different motor.

 

Turbo man. You are different. You actually know what you are doing! hehe. See guys? Even w/ his knowledge, mishaps happen. This is very common for experimental projects like this one. It's soo easy to up the boost and ruin the engine.

I like turbos. If there was a GOOD, WELL DEVELOPED kit out there for a similar amount, then I would encourage it. But there isn't so I don't.

Justin: I don't doubt your abilities but I VERY MUCH DOUBT you can get 150hp(50 more hp than the sc) from just 6 psi. It doesn't add up. The parasidic losses of the SC is not that much, especially w/ the Vortech unit. You also have to remember that compression of air creates heat(turbo and sc) but the sc runs much cooler than a turbo. It's about as close to a turbo as you can get sc-wise. The 300Z tt motors is VERY, VERY different. Iron block is on of the biggest differences(much stonger). Plus the engine is built SPECIFICALLY for turbo. Pistons, cr, oiling system, fuel, ecu program, oil and water feed lines etc, etc......

I can say I can do it for xxxx amount and so can you. But until you actually do it(and experience all the extra costs for materials, tuning, electronics, hoping you don't blow the head gaskets etc.. we shouldn't say we can do it for xxx amount or can make xxx hp.

 

Here's one.

 

If you open it up in Microsoft Photo Editor and click "auto balance" it will sharpen up a little.

 

I've always heard the the turbo's run cooler than a supercharger. That the forced induction from the turbo doesn't increase the temp of the air being fed the engine as much as the supercharger

Also, our engines are built pretty strong. I hate repeating Sport Compact Car, but even recently they were explaining how the VQ and S20 engines nissan makes are some brutes. Both are built so that they can take extreme amounts of horsepower increases without much mod's to the engine itself. Unlike the honda engines that the bottom end need some hefty reinforcement to handle horsepower increases. That article specifically mentioned the Sentra's engine with details how they can hadle upwards of 400 HP without much if any mods to engine block itself. I don't know much about the Zx engines but our max's seem to be built up good. I have read several times about people on this board with NOS running 75+ shots with no engine mods whatsoever. Only tranny mods to accomidate the extra power.

They also go into the american made motors and talk about that more HP increases mean spending extra to reinforce the engine. Maybe it means something, but I know the Nissan forging process has consistantly made the VQ a top engine. Not necessarily for its HP extremes but for its durability and performance. I think that that also points toward our engines being able to take a turbo. I don't see it running 22 lbs of boost but 10 lbs shouldn't be a problem.

sorry for such a long post, but just thought I'd share my 2 cents.

 

Nope. Turbos run much hotter than supercharges. Both create heat but think about how a turbo is run and how superchargers are run. It's common sense really.

Yes Nissan engines are stout no doubt. If there is a good canidate for boost, Nissan engines are good. But you cannot ignore the facts. NA engines are built for NA applications. OEM boosted engines are built different than na oem engines. It's diffiuclt to properly build an engine for boost that was orignally built for na. Heat, compression ratios, ignition timing, fuel volume/pressure all have to be consided. People using NOS have to have a provision to accomodate extra fuel also. Plus you have to remember that nos actually cools the intake charge while sc and turbos heat the intake charge.
Sure you might be able to run 10psi. SC guys do it. 10psi is 10psi, whether it's turbo, sc or whatever. It's when you get it, how you can maintain it and how to accomodate it that's the trick.

 

Not exactly. The efficency(sp?) of the turbo at higher speeds doesn't heat up the air as much as a supercharger does. It all depends on the design which depends a lot on the amount of boost your running and at what RPMs the boost is being made.

Personally, I like the JWT TURBO setup better than the $tillen SC because you don't use extra fuel and get the extra power unless your on the throttle hard. With the SC you ALWAYS have it working, except on the Merceedes SLK and I think the GTP Grand Prixs which have an electronic clutch that engages only when the pedal is pushed fast enough.

Ideally, I would take a SC with an electronic clutch so the
it would have less lag than a turbo, but only boost when the throttle was buried. However, I'm pretty sure this is only available with the "ROOTS" type blower not the Vortech, which would require a different hood due to clearance.

 

Turbos are run off the hot exhaust heat, the super charger runs of a belt. There is alot more heat to deal with w/ a turbo than a supercharger(especially the vortech types) A whipple type might make more heat but not as much as a turbo I would think. Are you sure than a turbo that runs efficent at high rpms would even make meaningfull boost a low rpms? Again compression of air will create heat. But the turbo is driven by heated exhaust gasses.

There is a big different between the JWT system and Stillen sc. One is available right now and the other was just a probject. Don't you think if JWT was able to market their turbo w/ ease and profit, they would have by now?

Turbos are NOT free energy either. It takes energy to spin the turbo and that energy(heat) is radiated thoughout the system and engine bay. The initial parasidic loses doesn't equal the turbo but then again the SC is not heating everything up as much either(ie.. block, oil, water, etc..) Add an intercooler and again, you have to up the boost to adjust for the intercooler piping pressure losses. That again makes for more parasidic losses on the turbo that the sc doesn't require.

 

turbo's run much hotter then superchargers. simply because turbo is exhaust driven and supercharger is belt driven. Even tho the supercharger is spinning all the time, you dont boost unless your foot tells it to boost. meaning if you cruise your in vaccum, your fuel mileage shouldnt change much. Same with turbos, if you boost alot then your fuel mileage goes down. Cant blame that on the blower or turbo.

ispeed,
i think you are refering to the SR20 and VG30 motors. Neither of which is the Maxima motor. The VQ is a very well designed motor but i doubt itll handle the 400+hp claims with good realibility. Most import motors including Honda's have very strong cranks, rarely do cranks and oil system need to be upgraded even in extreme racing conditions.

a FYI, i detonated at 10psi of intercooled boost. I blame 2 things, ECU advancing timing and high compression pistons. Both probs are already solved juss waiting for the new motor to go in.

 

And lets just say that if you expect you expect to get 600 RWHP with a Z TT stock eingine then you are very mistaken, a friend of mine is currently in the process of rebuilding his engine to run those #'s, but without building up the bottom end, upgrading injectors to 720CC, intercooler, larger turbo's T3/T4, or T28's, what ever the setup may be it takes more than just a stock engine. I would like to see someone try and get a stock Z and get a boost controler and turn it up to 22-24 PSI to get the 600 RWHP, let me know what happens. And its true the engines are very different from the Z and the Max.

I also recall the JWT turbo car did not make that great of #'s on the dyno that turbo magazine did, yet it did get a large amount of torque but the HP just was not there. I am not saying it is not possible, but you better look at spending loots of money for custom parts, and long wait times. just as Turbo95Max, He can tell you from 1st hand experience.

 

hahah yes i do know first hand.....oh by the way, my friend pushes about 598hp at the wheels in his 3Z TT. Stock internals, has 80k HARD miles on it and still going strong...so ummm Z motors arent THAT weak....selection of parts and good tuning goes a long way.

 

The JWT Turbo Maxima SMe has like 300 hp to the wheels. And it does have alot of torque. So I would think from just a Intake, Exhaust, and a Turbo 300 WHP is pritty da*m good. I dont know maybe its just me.

 

The Stillen sc'ed Max puts down that much also, so is that good too?

 

I think we are all beating a dead horse. I like turbos better because they are more compliant with upgrades(intercooler,boost controller,exhaust manifolds,Turbo wrap,ETC.) I think that superchargers are kinda Played out in maximas(no offence maxima SC people)I want to be differant and turbo. And yes I get your point we are pushing a 10.0:1 compression ratio is not your turbo ratio.You would want anywhere from 8.5:1-9.5:1. But you can push 10psi out of our motors -vq30de-and-vq30dek- the k being 2000+maximas.Anyways im very content with 10 psi.And if im not I would rebuild my motor with Flat pistons longer stroke and I would gut out my head and put lighter stiffer springs, titanium retainer clips, and hollow valves. And i would get a stand alone ECU. and I would say i would see numbers close to a 300zx.(on day)

 

Have you forgotten that Nissan does turbocharge the VQ engine in cars that we dont get. Pistons and engine management and accessories still need to be upgraded, but the basic engine design had boost in mind from the beginning.

 

Maybe running 10psi, but I haven't seen them numbers from a SC Max with 6psi.

The IMPORT TUNER I have on my "cube-wall" at work has a "Stillen Maxima" with claims 281.6hp to the wheels with 6-psi/Y-pipe/exhaust/factory tuned ECU/"other things", but the dyno-plot shows Steve Millen Sport Parts - R&D actually only go 275 not including the REV-LIMITER spike to 281.6hp.

Anyone seen dyno numbers on a SC with 10psi and the rest of the goodies(intake/exhaust/etc...)?

 

Well if you have to change the pistons to get the engine strong enough, what's the point? You have to take the engine apart anyway. At that time you can just upgrade everything at the same time.

Another point: So are you saying the fuel rails are already large enough, the oil pump is already flows enough(pressure/volume), the injectors are already big enough and the pistons already have oil cooling squirters?

If not, then this engine ain't good enough for med/high boost stock regardless of what is available from Japan.

 

Jeff92se, the motor is strong enough,But for people who find 10psi to civilized you Could do motor work to get more boost OR more compression. I wouldn't mind having a 11.5:1 vq motor. I bet it would that would be 320 N/A HP!

 

Justin, how many engines have you built? You throw these terms like "you can get an engine built" and "you can boost to whatever to get xxx hp", like it's the same as installing a FTSB or something. If it's so easy then why hasn't there been more turbo maximas now? And why doesn't JWT offer there's to the public now? Because this work is extremely difficult, time consuming and costly. I could "build" an internet turbo engine to make 400-500hp easy. I could name off all the parts I need and what electronics to make all run right. But the internet is not reality. I have taken apart my engine and numerous Datsun engines. I can tell you this, unless you are very familar w/ cr ratios, fuel volume/pressure, bearing clearances, head design, cam specs, ignition timing etc... you should not attempt such a task. What does your pcv valve do when the system is pressurized? How do you deal w/ the idle quality when you are making boost at idle? What does the idle circuit act like when it receives a "boost" signal when there should be a vacuum signal? You mention stand alone ecu management. Do you know how to modify the front timing cover and front pulley to accept the hall effect crank angle timing sensors? Can you use the stock cam angle sensors? Can the cam angle sensor output be used when the ecu needs a crank angle signal?

And sure 11.5 compression would be nice. Too bad we probably don't have gas with a high enough octane rating to utilize it. How much power are you going to be making when knock sensor sees ping and pulls back the timing 3 degrees? Probably worse than before hp, that's what. So let's say you use that 104 octane stuff. Does the lead in it ruin your cat? Your willing to buy that stuff for the entire time you have your high compression motor?

I'm not trying to discourage anyone but I get tired of these conversations where people imply I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

First off, you have troubles...I never said you wouldn't or couldn't run into these problems. But as far as what your saying your putting words in my mouth. Third off , yes I have built motors and as far as im concerned im not as annoyed doing it as you are. I have droped a 427 in a unit body trans-am and I have put a Honda b-20 block with a b16a1 head In a 91 honda crx that needed complete wiring for the ecu not to mention needed to be completely rebuild from the bottom up. Yes, I understand your frustration(sp?) and I know it can be hard at times but you CAN do it.
But, I dont understand why you have a direct problem with me and everyone in this post that says they want a turbo. You need to relize that reality CAN be what im saying. Now you CAN push out 10PSI from the stock VQ motor.It HAS been done.And as far as getting your motor built,You CAN do it.First you have to know the specs of your motor,Second you have to get a "stand alone ecu" Yes that is what I said so you can program everthing you have improved(more air/fuel maps/cas/tps/mafs/o2s/ETC.)Then you go shopping.
and yes you will need like 10000 plus but you CAN do it!So get over your troubles.
Oh by the way, you dont see me posting comments everytime a little baby crys and whines about how hard things are and it cant be done. so if something annoys you DONT POST!
-Peace

 

and i didnt say that, i said if you can have somebody builda turbo set-up for my car at 10psi for $5000 i would ship my car to AZ to have it done...Learn how to read!

 

You tell 'em Justin. If people keep saying you can't do it, it never gets done. If you put enough time and effort into something you'll get it done. I'm currently learning how to rock an ECU and then plan to work from there. On engine limits and potential, I mean.

 

I didn't say it couldn't be done.

I never said 10psi would require a stand alone beucase SC maximas have run 10psi without them.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done.

I never said you COULDN'T build a motor. I just said it was difficult. So don't put words in my mouth okay?

Go ahead and do it. Let me know when you are done.

So who's crying?? Not me. If you can't take my posts without getting upset, don't read them. Especially when you can't understand the point of the posts.

Read my posts again. I REPEAT I NEVER SAID ANY OF THIS COULDN'T BE DONE, GET IT? Thanks!

Just do it then okay? But for the life of me, I can't understand why people insist on ice skating up hill. Have fun w/ your turbo project. I suggest you talk to Turbo95. He has already done a turbo maxima and I have spoken with him already on this very subject. I might even turbo my 3-gen in the future. Why? because there is not ready available sc and there is no room to install a sc in a VE maxima w/ ABS.

 

What's "rock an ECU"?

 

Ah maybe another person named Justin Tulli came here and said this? Short memory? 50 more hp than the SC 100hp upgrade equals 150hp hp or does my math just not work Justin??

So all this from 6psi correct???

I'm not mad at ya nor am I discouraging you.

 

You know what, Your right.. Maybe I over exaderated(sp?)50 hp is alot, But If you had a intercooled turbo It would give you more HP then a supercharger at 6 psi. Lets say everything was tuned to spec. The motor losses power with turning the pully. And that IS a fact! Like i said before a Supercharger is a VERY good system. But turbos are the next step in maximas. And i hope to be in the first wave with there arival in maximas. So calm down and relax and go take a nap or something. OKAY???

 

Hey Justin, I really like your way of lowering compression. Flat topped pistons and longer rods? Riiiight. Go back to dream land.

 

Oh dude whatever,
what are you going to use dome pistons? Tell me is that what you would use?




Jeff, have more of your friends come in here to say things. everyone that said stuff to you was on their own. I had nothing to do with it. And as far as im concerned we have differant oppions on this subject. So im cool if you are. We really are beating a dead horse. So lets just end it!

 

Okay Justin, since you are willing to admit your mistake then let's discuss. Okay?

I have been researching intercoolers. There is a break even point where the advantages of an intercooler does not outweigh the acceptable pressure losess associated w/ the extra piping and intercooler. From what I have read 6psi is too low for the engine to benefit from it. You understand that the longer you make the intake side tubing, the more pressue(effort)it takes for the engine to spool the turbo. Turbo power is not free power. Sc are parasidic w/ the pulleys but turbos are also parasidic w/ the energy to spool the turbo, all the extra heat retained by the turbo exhaust side tubing, and the extra tubing for the interooler just to get the intake temps back down to the original sc intake temps. This is why you don't see sc or turbos intercooled at 6psi.

So a turbo system set at 6psi is not really running 6psi w/ an intercooler. It has to be set higher than 6psi. That means the turbo has to work harder to get back to that 6psi. Harder work means more heat and parasidic losses.

Drink a beer and think about that. hehe