Had enough engine pinging!!...about to install colder spark plugs
05-21-2010, 11:13 PM
#42
05-22-2010, 04:55 AM
#43
http://www.ngk.com/results_app.asp?AAIA=1431954
...which describe our OEM plugs as Heat Rating 5, which is "hot", according to their FAQ on what a hot/cold plug is. So if someone were to look at spark plug replacement in an attempt to address pre-ignition, they would target a plug with a Heat Rating of 6 or 7... a "cold plug". I suppose NGK would have to be contacted to find out what model that would be.
At the moment, I'm experiencing low-end pinging. However, replacing my NGK Iridiums isn't my first option. It just doesn't ring true to me that bolt-on mods would mean the need for "cold plugs". Still, this is good information to be aware of when all other options don't pan out.
05-22-2010, 04:05 PM
#45
I'm guessing the 6 would have to be changed more often, is all. Which isn't that big of a deal considering how long plugs last.
05-22-2010, 04:07 PM
#46
05-22-2010, 07:12 PM
#47
thanks!! I asked my tuner about going to the colder plug as I was worried about losing horsepower. He said it wouldn't make a difference. I think that the only downside is, as you said, worrying as to whether there is enough heat to clean the plugs. But I doubt they are that much cooler to really worry about it.
I have the plugs sitting in my basement, just waiting for a nice weekend when I am not working overtime. I haven't even started that list I told you about.
I have the plugs sitting in my basement, just waiting for a nice weekend when I am not working overtime. I haven't even started that list I told you about.
05-22-2010, 09:11 PM
#48
Well, you know I'm wanting to hear what comes about with these plugs. Tomorrow is a nice day, Ray. Do it tomorrow. 
This evening, I ran half a can of Seafoam through the upper engine. It had zero effect on the low-end pinging. And the car runs neither better nor worse. Actually, it runs very well, as far as I know. It's just this damn pinging that's crawling under my skin.
The problem is not octane levels, nor bad gas. And it's not carbon build-up in the upper engine. So my next avenue of attack is to replace my old MAF, which means getting a 5.0 gen MAF and swapping the IAT thermistor. Since the MAF will inevitably fail someday, it's a reasonable effort, if only as preventative maintenance.
And if that doesn't address the problem, then I'm going to hit up my mechanic for solutions... maybe swapping out my plugs, depending on what comes of your experiment with cold plugs.
This evening, I ran half a can of Seafoam through the upper engine. It had zero effect on the low-end pinging. And the car runs neither better nor worse. Actually, it runs very well, as far as I know. It's just this damn pinging that's crawling under my skin.
The problem is not octane levels, nor bad gas. And it's not carbon build-up in the upper engine. So my next avenue of attack is to replace my old MAF, which means getting a 5.0 gen MAF and swapping the IAT thermistor. Since the MAF will inevitably fail someday, it's a reasonable effort, if only as preventative maintenance.
And if that doesn't address the problem, then I'm going to hit up my mechanic for solutions... maybe swapping out my plugs, depending on what comes of your experiment with cold plugs.
05-23-2010, 09:36 AM
#49
Problem is when I do the plugs I also want to do the bigger injectors, and the bbmaf and the tune. Because of the rtv sealant on the nwp gaskets this isn't going to take a few hours. The only downside to the spacers is the removing sealant. Plus i go to midnight shift tonight, so i will have to go back to bed and grab a few afternoon z's
05-23-2010, 01:25 PM
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: London, ON, Canada
Posts: 595
Rear fuel rail and all associated parts are a lot easier to get off with the UIM removed. I would suppose its possible to remove without taking the UIM off, but there is so much room to work once its off. It was great having it off to do my plugs/PCV valve, etc.
05-25-2010, 08:08 AM
#52
Bought a 2001 MAF yesterday at my local dealership, at $95 + tax. This morning I soldered on a thermistor 2slow sent me last year, as the IAT. Swapped the MAF unit for my old one. Kept the old housing since the screen was still clean as a whistle. Car runs neither better nor worse, which is OK I suppose, since I think it runs pretty darn well anyway. But it still pings at the low-end.
So for about $100, I bought myself peace-of-mind with a brand new MAF and IAT, since it seems destined for failure on our cars after 8 years or so.
But it still pings at the low-end.
So for about $100, I bought myself peace-of-mind with a brand new MAF and IAT, since it seems destined for failure on our cars after 8 years or so.
But it still pings at the low-end.
05-25-2010, 06:19 PM
#54
Uh huh, the knock sensor has potential. But I need to chill for a while before throwing money at more guesswork. The MAF was a fair rationalization as preventative maintenance, cost less than the KS, and was DIY accessible considering the SRI configuration.
05-26-2010, 05:50 AM
#56
05-26-2010, 06:48 AM
#58
http://www.courtesyparts.com/22060p-...ml?cPath=1956&
05-29-2010, 12:07 PM
#59
I thought I might as well chime in while I'm here.
I have replaced my KS, MAF, etc. but the ping is still there. Not as much, but somewhat. Usually my stereo is up so I can barely hear the pinging anyway.
Anyways, to keep the pinging to the minimal levels, I would definitely run a properly baffled Oil Catch Can along with a new PCV annually. The amount of oil vapors that get caught is substantial in my opinion. The folks without a catch can would definitely experience a high level of ping.
I have replaced my KS, MAF, etc. but the ping is still there. Not as much, but somewhat. Usually my stereo is up so I can barely hear the pinging anyway.
Anyways, to keep the pinging to the minimal levels, I would definitely run a properly baffled Oil Catch Can along with a new PCV annually. The amount of oil vapors that get caught is substantial in my opinion. The folks without a catch can would definitely experience a high level of ping.
05-30-2010, 06:47 PM
#62
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3
I was at the dealership the other day and was told the 02 Maxima has historically had issues with the ignition coils that were originally installed. Unfortunately, it was never a recall item. All the techs I have talked to about this (at different dealerships) said the coils have been redesigned and that replacing the coils has taken care of a majority of the pinging (aside from other issues mentioned i.e. KS, carbon buildup, plugs, etc.) Unfortunately, six coils at about $90 each is not an easy pill to swallow. If you plan to have the dealership do the replacement you're looking at $1K easy - most of it is labor to remove the IM to get to the rear bank.
I have seen threads in this forum where people have replaced the coils and their pinging issues were resolved.
05-31-2010, 06:05 PM
#64
Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Northern California
Posts: 158
Guess I just got lucky with my '02
The ODO just rolled over 210K yesterday and my '02 has never pinged. The dealer replaces the plugs at 100K intervals with OEM plugs and I always ask them to keep the old plugs for me to inspect. Both times the plugs were looking really good for having 100K miles on them.
On the second spark plug service they found an oil seal on the rear valve cover had failed and the spark coil was all spongy from sitting in oil for who knows how long. The cool thing was they didn't charge any labor to replace the valve cover or the coil. Most of the work is getting to the valve covers and they already had all that stuff off for the plug change.
95% of the gas I've used was bought at Costco gas stations. When gas prices got crazy awhile back I switched over to the 87 octane regular and never heard a peep out of the engine. I'm still using the 87 octane and the engine doesn't seem to mind it at all.
My motor is 100% stock. I use OEM air filters every 15K miles. I've never had the MAF out of the car although it's possible that the dealer cleans it when doing the major service (100K). Once several years ago the engine threw a code for one of the O2 sensors. The service department suggested replacing both of them at the same time. They gave me a break on the cost of the sensors and labor although it was still over $400. I had a coolant leak a couple years ago but fixed that myself. The oil gets changed every 5K at the dealer with whatever they're using at the time. The dipstick reads 1/2 quart low when they change the oil. The emissions test was performed in February and passed with flying colors.
I would ask the service department for some ideas. Someone suggested the knock sensor might be bad. That makes a lot of sense to me.
Just lucky, I guess!
On the second spark plug service they found an oil seal on the rear valve cover had failed and the spark coil was all spongy from sitting in oil for who knows how long. The cool thing was they didn't charge any labor to replace the valve cover or the coil. Most of the work is getting to the valve covers and they already had all that stuff off for the plug change.
95% of the gas I've used was bought at Costco gas stations. When gas prices got crazy awhile back I switched over to the 87 octane regular and never heard a peep out of the engine. I'm still using the 87 octane and the engine doesn't seem to mind it at all.
My motor is 100% stock. I use OEM air filters every 15K miles. I've never had the MAF out of the car although it's possible that the dealer cleans it when doing the major service (100K). Once several years ago the engine threw a code for one of the O2 sensors. The service department suggested replacing both of them at the same time. They gave me a break on the cost of the sensors and labor although it was still over $400. I had a coolant leak a couple years ago but fixed that myself. The oil gets changed every 5K at the dealer with whatever they're using at the time. The dipstick reads 1/2 quart low when they change the oil. The emissions test was performed in February and passed with flying colors.
I would ask the service department for some ideas. Someone suggested the knock sensor might be bad. That makes a lot of sense to me.
Just lucky, I guess!
Last edited by slo-ryde; 05-31-2010 at 06:08 PM.
07-11-2010, 08:02 PM
#65
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 51
Journey to Changing Ignition Timing
I thought I might as well chime in while I'm here.
I have replaced my KS, MAF, etc. but the ping is still there. Not as much, but somewhat. Usually my stereo is up so I can barely hear the pinging anyway.
Anyways, to keep the pinging to the minimal levels, I would definitely run a properly baffled Oil Catch Can along with a new PCV annually. The amount of oil vapors that get caught is substantial in my opinion. The folks without a catch can would definitely experience a high level of ping.
I have replaced my KS, MAF, etc. but the ping is still there. Not as much, but somewhat. Usually my stereo is up so I can barely hear the pinging anyway.
Anyways, to keep the pinging to the minimal levels, I would definitely run a properly baffled Oil Catch Can along with a new PCV annually. The amount of oil vapors that get caught is substantial in my opinion. The folks without a catch can would definitely experience a high level of ping.
My problem was a slight audible pinging sound from the front banks of either cyl 2 and 4 at idle when warmed. However, I don't think it was severe enough for knock sensors to pick up. I do not know if my situation is due to detonation or pre-ignition.
I then took my car to the dealer and was charged $192.00 for fuel injection service. By driving I believed all they did was poured a fuel stabilizer into my tank (i can smell the exhaust).
I went back to the dealer and requested them to retard my timing, but they wouldn't budge. So I bought a Consult programmer, although I don't recommend resorting to this, delayed my ig-timing from 15 to 14 degrees and sound of pre-ignition or knocking went away.
After programming, the engine throttle response is not affected, my idle is quieter/smoother, I have not noticed any power loss and my gas mileage is barely affected. I am still not sure what the culprit is. Since this is a temporary fix, I will soon replace or upgrade my coils and order new factory plugs. An oil catch can is not a bad idea.
Last edited by MaximaSEAE01; 07-11-2010 at 08:23 PM.
07-11-2010, 09:32 PM
#66
After programming, the engine throttle response is not affected, my idle is quieter/smoother, I have not noticed any power loss and my gas mileage is barely affected. I am still not sure what the culprit is. Since this is a temporary fix, I will soon replace or upgrade my coils and order new factory plugs. An oil catch can is not a bad idea.
07-12-2010, 03:41 PM
#68
10-18-2010, 01:51 PM
#69
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10
Where to buy consult
How did you do that? Where did you buy the consult-II programmer? Is there any mechanics can adjust the timing via computer? Will it be permanent fix or the timing will be back to stock once we disconnect the battery?
10-19-2010, 09:33 AM
#70
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 51
Cold vs Hot spark plugs
To answer your question, I believe VQ30's ig-timing can be reset with disconnecting battery. I don't know for sure to tell you the truth, but if your plugs or coils are bad, disconnecting battery won't help here.
Read more if interested:
I bought the consult-II from a retired mechanic--it's not any ordinary tool you'd pay for; hence, the high price I paid for it.
As it turned out, my plugs were due for a replacement and I bought colder replacement plugs. I got the NGK Laser Iridiums and they work very well with VQ30 engines since these engines are notorious for having the pinging sound which mine came from either cylinder 1 or 2.
The ping is best remedied through the use of colder plugs than the ones which came installed with the car; thus, dissipating heat more quickly away from the engine through the plugs.
I don't have the part number off-hand, but call NGK and ask them for Laser Iridium replacement for your engine, but one step colder. They are helpful.
If you still have the pinging sound, it's your coil packs which aren't cheap to replace. For VQ30's I'd only go with factory made ones and no other manufacturers for the best reasons. It's good that I haven't gone as far as replacing my coils.
Also, chances can be high that your plugs may be fouled with carbon deposits which affects the spark--this can also be another reason due for a change. If you run good fuel, you lessen the chances of fouling your plugs with carbon for a long time.
Both of these are a sure shot way of fixing the infamous ping many VQ30 owners experience, but start with the plugs.
Also google cold plugs vs hot plugs and their applications--nothing to be messed with unless you know what you're doing. You don't want too cold or too hot of a plug for your engine, but VQ30's need 1 step colder than manufacturer installed ones.
Last edited by MaximaSEAE01; 10-19-2010 at 09:48 AM.
10-19-2010, 09:54 PM
#71
The rattle between 1500-1800 rpms is definitely pinging, it was noticeably worse when I was in Phoenix last week where they have 91 octane instead of 93. I could hear it constantly under light throttle from 1500-1800 rpms. Much less obvious back in Dallas and with 93 octane in the tank-very rarely notice it here. Obviously doesn't affect engine longevity, I'm at 187,400 miles and got decent mileage on my trip to and from Arizona.
10-20-2010, 05:29 AM
#72
I've been struggling with low-end pinging for most of 2010. Performance doesn't seem to be affected, just my state-of-mind when hearing this faint rattle as I drive normally out of a dead stop. It was really getting under my skin, easing the clutch out into first gear.
Then, about 3 tankfuls ago, I put a bottle of Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner in with a fresh tank of gas. Over the next few weeks, the problem seemed to slowly get less and less obvious. Lately, I find myself wondering where the noise went.
Is the problem fixed?
Will it come back?
Am I happy? For the moment, yeah.
Then, about 3 tankfuls ago, I put a bottle of Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner in with a fresh tank of gas. Over the next few weeks, the problem seemed to slowly get less and less obvious. Lately, I find myself wondering where the noise went.
Is the problem fixed?
Will it come back?
Am I happy? For the moment, yeah.
10-20-2010, 07:05 AM
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 497
I have ultra-gauge monitoring my timing. The noise comes on as soon as the timing is above 40 degrees. It has to be pinging but it is too faint for that. I had my mechanic drive the car and he is certain that it is NOT pinging. I suppose he has heard lot more pinging from lots of different cars. I too know real pinging "marbles in the coffee can" sound. At least on my car, it is no where the intensity of some of the pinging that I have heard.
About the Techron, I thought you had already tried lots of different fuel system cleaners, including, the mother of all cleaners, i.e. BG44K ?
- Vikas
About the Techron, I thought you had already tried lots of different fuel system cleaners, including, the mother of all cleaners, i.e. BG44K ?
- Vikas
10-20-2010, 07:13 AM
#74
I'm not saying this Techron is the silver bullet in my particular situation... what I'm currently observing may very well be affected the the lower temps lately with the changing seasons.
But the only things that have occurred recently are the lower temps outside, and the Chevron Techron cleaner. I still get my gas from the same places.
You know what? It's a freaking mystery. That's about all I can say for sure.
10-20-2010, 07:32 AM
#75
Now that the air's cooling off down here in hell, I've been running with the windows down, A/C off, and I've also got that same annoying clattering from 1800-2500rpm or so, but it's not faint, it's very pronounced, unlike what y'all report.
I've run 93 octane in my car for long enough to matter, but that rattling is so damned loud I'd swear it was timing chain or valvetrain, but with only 33k on the engine, I'd be super skeptical about that. Also, I can tip in just a hair more throttle/fuel, and the clattering goes away. So it's a timing advance/fuel delivery or octane issue.
I find this interesting for a couple of reasons, mostly related to the low mileage my engine has. I've got the new ignition coils that have been brought up, I don't have any of the PCV or TB gunk build up that higher mileage cars would have, my injectors are also new and clean, yet my engine ('08 VQ35DE) suffers from the same preignition problems that others have reported.
I'm looking into pulling a degree or two of timing out, and running a 6 heat range plug, at seperate times, so I'll have a better idea of what "fixes" my problem.
I've run 93 octane in my car for long enough to matter, but that rattling is so damned loud I'd swear it was timing chain or valvetrain, but with only 33k on the engine, I'd be super skeptical about that. Also, I can tip in just a hair more throttle/fuel, and the clattering goes away. So it's a timing advance/fuel delivery or octane issue.
I find this interesting for a couple of reasons, mostly related to the low mileage my engine has. I've got the new ignition coils that have been brought up, I don't have any of the PCV or TB gunk build up that higher mileage cars would have, my injectors are also new and clean, yet my engine ('08 VQ35DE) suffers from the same preignition problems that others have reported.
I'm looking into pulling a degree or two of timing out, and running a 6 heat range plug, at seperate times, so I'll have a better idea of what "fixes" my problem.
10-24-2010, 11:46 AM
#76
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10
So, you are sure the colder plugs was the real fix for your Maxi.
For VQ35DE I can get NGK 1 step colder laser iridium(ILFR6T11) or PLFR6A-11 for about $40-$15(coupon) with online order pickup local Advance Auto.
10-28-2010, 08:21 AM
#77
The more I think about this, the less I like the idea of wholesale reducing my entire rpm timing map for a few hundred rpm worth of clattering.
Has anyone ever addressed strictly the "problem rpm" range to get rid of the preignition problem with their VQ's? Or did y'all pull a degree from the entire map? I think I reduced my base timing a degree the other day, and while there may be just the slightest reduction in the racket, the car doesn't run any different, which makes me think I didn't do anything.
I'm gonna come back to this when I get around to it, but I just wanted to throw that out there while I was thinking about it.
Has anyone ever addressed strictly the "problem rpm" range to get rid of the preignition problem with their VQ's? Or did y'all pull a degree from the entire map? I think I reduced my base timing a degree the other day, and while there may be just the slightest reduction in the racket, the car doesn't run any different, which makes me think I didn't do anything.
I'm gonna come back to this when I get around to it, but I just wanted to throw that out there while I was thinking about it.
10-28-2010, 11:49 AM
#78
Base timing map is only to 2000rpm. Once moving you're fine. Your engine shouldnt ping, esp not with quality 93 octane fuel. The only time I got "pinging" is when my precats melted from defective OEM software (this was the cause of the NTB xxx-023 ecu reflash for lack of power). I got new precats, then replaced them with HS headers. If you're pinging, colder plugs arent going to solve the problem...they're just a bandaid.
10-28-2010, 12:46 PM
#79
Well if that ain't incentive to gut every last one of 'em and look into O2 sims, I don't know what is......
I sure ain't wanting to toast my good low mileage engine cuz of some old plugged up cats
I sure ain't wanting to toast my good low mileage engine cuz of some old plugged up cats
10-29-2010, 11:42 AM
#80
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10
MaximaSEAE01, any update from your car? Is the pinging fixed completely? or by chance the humidity is high for the past few days? My car doesn't ping in the humid weather or high altitude/mountains with my old plugs. I almost install my colder plugs but still doubt it will fix it.