vmax8

First of all, I'd like to thank Paul2kGXE for advising me to
wait for the 2k2 Max instead of getting a 5spd Max 20th AE
last September! I'm glad I waited, but now I need to make
a choice and I'd appreciate all the feedback that I can get!

If I just take performance and handling into consideration,
is there going to be much of a difference between a 2k2
5 spd Altima and a 2k2 6spd Max (equipped with helical limited
slip diff)? Would it be worth coughing up the few extra
grand to get the 6spd Max with HLSD knowing that the 5spd
Altima will churn out the same amount of max torque, AND the
Altima has the Skyline's suspension?

Which one would you get and why? (again, just considering
the performance and handling parameters-- does the Max
deserve the extra couple of grand xtra over the Altima?)

2k2 Max:
(1) VQ35, 260 hp @ 5800rpm, 246 lb-ft torque @ 4400 rpm
(2) 6 spd mtx (close-ratio)
(3) helical limited slip differential
BUT with solid beam rear axle.
(4) 3236 lbs (curb weight)

OR

2k2 Altima:
(1) VQ35, 240 hp @ 5800rpm, 246 lb-ft torque @ 4400 rpm
(2) 5 spd mtx
(3) No LSD availabe
BUT it has the SKYLINE's suspension!
(4) 3195 lbs (curb weight)

Ironlord

The max:

Between the LSD, the extra 20 horsies, and the close ratio 6 speed, you'll be blowing 2k2 altima outs of the water. (can you say 'hole shot'?). And you'll never be happy if you get an altima and a max hoses you in a race and all you can say is :"But I have the skyline suspension..."

A few grand for 20 HP, an extra gear, and LSD? Most people would kill for that as an aftermarket option...

vmax8

Ironlord,

I appreciate your input! You bring up some good points!
Score 1 for the Max (I have a feeling that the cost
of the Max--- with 6spd and HLSD---will most likely
start to hover near and around the $30k range)

serin

iTrader: (2)

ironlord said it right. but honestly, i'd just assume say that 'i've got the skyline suspension.' i live in an area where traffic congestion is a nightmare... daily. rarely do i find myself in a position where i can just open up unless it's really, REALLY late at night.
realistically (sp?) i'd much more appreciate a responsive ride to the numb rear end in my 2k max.
so it's a question of your driving reality. some of the guys here find open roads seemingly at will, their biggest concern being the
my max is my daily driver, which i adore and certainly enjoy. but given the choice with the new altima, i don't know....
the 5 sp altima will still be very quick. add nimble to that and i think it's a good combo.

serin

iTrader: (2)

BTW ironlord, i like your mod list

Matticus

I think the sticker price will be a factor in alot of the decisions betwen the 2 cars. No word is out on the price, and won't be till release most likely. But I remember hearing something about the Altima being in the same price range as the 2k, 2K1 Maxima. If that is the case you can bank on the new Maximas being in the 30K+ range. If you can afford the payments, I would get the Max, if not, the Altima might be a wiser choice, as far as the payments are concerned. D-day is almost apon us, so all our waiting, and nail biting will be over soon.

johnsmax

I'm having the same thoughts. first, i thought altima its gonna be a lot lighter but its only a spare tire lighter now. If the Max is 5gs more, than the answer will be the alti, but since i already have the max, should i drive somthing that looks the same for some more years?? I think not.

wdave

The thing to do is wait and test drive both and then with real knowledge of price make an educated decision. The better suspension of the Altima may turn out to be not so well executed and make less difference, the extra 20 hp but same torque in the Max may not make so much difference, the 6 speed could be overkill etc. etc. And then after that a manual IS300 (supposedly on the way) might be even better. A test drive will let you tell how the whole vehicle works - specs aren't everything.

wdave

greggmax

I read that the price for the 2002 Max will be only a couple of hundred dollars more, but that is the MSRP. Right now, both the Altima and Max can be had for much less than the list price. If these cars perform as good on the road as they do on paper, than you will likely be paying close to MSRP.

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

Go with what you can afford and what your heart desires you dont want to be stuck with years of payments thinking what did I do! Before you make any decisions test drive both also. I dont think I would be happy with an Altima, because the name and also because they have worse resale than the Max!

maxmizd27

I want a new one next year and the only way I'm going to consider an Altima is if there is a huge difference in price. I don't like the Altima interior. The interior of the 2000 Max was one of the things I liked the most. I also want the 6 speed. Then there's the whole name thing. IMHO there is still the mystique, reputation, whatever that the Maxima name brings. The Altima name still sounds like the ALT-ernate-IMA to a MAX-IMA. It will never be the top-of-line Nissan sedan in my mind. Max's rule! But, we new that.

Max_Gator

I agree. Although I was pretty impressed with the Altima's performance when it first came out, I don't think there is any doubt that if I were buying next year, I would get the Maxima. BUT, I am basing this only on what I've seen of the Altima. As others suggest, you HAVE to drive each car to make a decision.

I was gung ho to go get a 2002 max or Altima - but from what I've seen, 2003/4 will hold some very attractive choices for those of us into performance (new Z, G35Sklyine, new max, and according to Nissan, even more in the infiniti lineup). Knowing Nissan, those choices may make even the 260 hp 6spd max purchasers unhappy.

I know they'll be unhappy when they lose to a 2k 5spd. Muhaaaahahahhahaha!

Chillboy

Maxima hands down. even if it costs upto 3k more. the six speed transmission will make it worth it.

av_audi

A few things should be kept in mind. Most of the hoopla in the press is taken verbatim from Nissan's press releases. The excitement about the Altima suspension is pure speculation until actual road tests are performed. The fact that the rear suspension is now independent means absolutely nothing. Aside from the press releases, we know NOTHING about the actual performance of this car.

The Altima is a completely new design, inside and out. So be aware of the potential for many "first year model problems." Since reliability is one reason I am considering the Maxima over its German competitors, the completely new Altima does not appeal to me.

The new 3.5L engine is bound to be heavier than the current 3.0L, and that will affect the handling of 2002 versus 2001 Maximas. We have no basis of comparison for the Altima.

Even the prices are complete unknowns. Once the MSRP is announced, it will take a while to find out the street values of these cars. But if the current pricing scheme for Maximas is any indicator (below invoice), the 2002 Max shouldn't be too far off.

A note about the 2002 Maxima SE. I think it will come with 17" wheels standard. It's good, but itmay also means a 40ft turning radius, versus 35ft for 2001 Maxima SEs with 16" wheels. I don't like that (I am probably in the minority). We'll find out soon enough.

To me, a loaded up Maxima is not that great of a value. It's a little overpriced, and the sale prices confirm that. I will soon be looking for a base 5-speed SE, which is a decent value (too bad for the side-airbags). But it seems like 5-speeds are rare to begin with, so base 5-speed SEs might be impossible to find, in which case, I might pass up the Max.

Max_Gator

My experience is that the fully loaded 5spd SEs (with 17" wheels) can be had for a great bargain. At least when I bought mine that was the case. I was out the door for $24,500. Hard to beat that.

I will admit that if I was a sticker shopper, I'd feel the 30 they are asking for loaded SE AE's is way too much.

Paul6speed

vmax8
Glad to help out in a small way. It's a tough decision. I think the Altima gets the edge with the superior suspension. The Maxima supposedly gets the extra 20 HP through exhaust and intake. The same torque though. The 6 speed in the Maxima is a big plus. The recent Autoweek test of the 2002 Maxima said a 5 speed would have been fine with the 3.5 VQ engine in the Maxima. They would probably say the same for the Altima. Either car, you can't go wrong.

av_audi
I don't think the weight of the 3.5 will be an issue, since it's a bored and stroked 3.0. Actually we already know the weight won't be an issue. The curb weight is only 50 pounds heavier and that includes added standard equipment.

annimax

2002 Maxima!

TexMaximum

2002 Altima hands down!!!:

Why?

1 Cheaper
2 lighter
3 Same amount of off the line raw GRUNT, AKA Torque
4 Nearly as much HP (20HP, come on, thats nothing, thats easy to get)
5 Will be no more then 3 tenths of a second slower, if that much Vrs the 6spd max. The money you save with MORE then make up that in mods. The max will not "blast it"
6 All New design and Platform, won’t be outdated in another year like the new Maxima
7 Lots of mods should become available as it will be a performance leader in its segment and who would make new mods for the 2002 Max, when they will totally change it in 03. Also more available to those likely to mod cars then the average Maxima owner, should spark great aftermarket support.
8 Less Depreciation, when the 03 max hits, your 02 will sink in value fast, unlike the all new Altima
9 These cars have enough torque where the 6Spd will not make much of a difference over the 5Spd in performance, mostly for Highway and Fuel econ.
10 The limited slip doesn’t come out on the max till two months after they go on sales. So you have to wait.
11 The Altima looks nice and Has dual exhaust, how cool whou dual HKS or Greddy look on that!
12 Nearly same passenger and cargo room
13 Even nissan thinks its better for performace, and will cut back the production of the Maxima to sell more Altimas, and sell mostly higher end, high priced Tux Lux GLE Maximas. They know more people would rather have a SE Atima fully loaded then a GXE MaX, and maybe even sway many SE Max buyers to the Altima.
14 Did I mention Cheaper?

Can list 10 more reasons

sllloyd

This really isn't an argument for either car...but I'm leaning towards the 02 Max

Price, I've heard it both ways: Max's are gonna be a few thousand higher vs not much higher at all...I DON'T LIKE the interior of the Altima (at least in pictures.) While Nissan isn't planning on moving as many Max's as in the past, they're gonna have to move some. So if Altima sales take off, there might be some wiggle room on the Max

The Altima is gonna be roomier

I don't think the Altima "has" the Skyline suspension, I think it's a Skyline "derived" suspension, which in the real world could mean two very different things

0-62 is mostly torque, not HP, correct?

Max_Gator

Well taken but . . .

If I had to choose between the two ONLY, I might choose the max because I like neither the exterior nor interior of the Altima FROM THE PICS I'VE SEEN. That may change when I see it in reality. I think that exterior/interior is much more attractive on the max (I'm guessing that's one of the reasons you bought the I-30 over the max, eh?)

As for mods - they will be there for the 2002 Max. Hell, the only mods we have anyway are ypipe, intakes, pulleys, nitrous and s/c. Most of these will transpose between the Altima and the max since it's essentially the same 3.5. Y-pipe might not - but I bet its no biggie for cattman or stealin to make one; s/c may be another story. But, you certainly are correct that the aftermarket will probably be bigger with a cheaper car.

As for torque/hp, I think you are wrong. 20 hp plus lsd and a close ratio six speed means a stock 2002 easily beats a stock 2002 altima se to 60 and walks it in the 1/4. It's bigger than the difference between a stock 5spd Se and one with Y, intake and UDP - that's a big difference.

With that in mind, I probably won't be buying either. I think better things are in the offing. Maybe they won't make the 2003 max a boat, or the G35 will be the real deal, or the Z will be awesome, or something else will be developed for the Nissan/infiniti line.

But - I do think Nissan has a winner with the Altima!

tha_kwak

Hello Guys.

I just got back from the 6th largest Nissan Dealership in the nation (Nissan Dealership in Gwinnett County in Georgia)

According to a chief sales manager (Mike Owens),
the pricing on the Altimas, Sentra SE-r's and Maximas WILL NOT sheer over $300 from the MSRP (meaning discount over $300).

I am sorry guys, but Nissan will NOT cut prices to make it easier to purchase.

ANY Nissan dealership which sells ANY 2002 + Nissan Sentra SE-r, Maxima, or Altima at a discount of $300 or more will receive SEVERE Auditing, and all shipment of those cars will be discontinued to those dealerships.

PERIOD.!!!

Sorry guys, but they WILL be quite pricy.

All this is NOT an assumption. This information comes DIRECTLY from a Representative of Nissan Motors in Japan.

BOOOOO for those (such as I) who dont make 6 digits yet!!!

Paul6speed

Young... this isn't a crack at you, but at the dealer. I'm sorry, but I don't believe any of this. I don't think Nissan is going to be able to control pricing as your dealer has suggested. What is there to audit? A dealer buys cars from Nissan and can sell it for what it wants. If it continually sells below the price it bought it, the dealer will eventually go out of business. Nissan dealers sell well below sticker price, due to the market conditions. It's either that or lease more space to hold the unsold cars. If you don't believe me, watch the pricing in December or January. Nissan just released a sales forecast that indicated that sales will be flat for 2002. If Nissan does this, they will be surely to modify or scale back their plans.

TexMaximum

Torque is what accelerates your car. DO the calculation on weight, gears, torque and HP and the new Maxima will NOT be much faster then the SE 3.5 Altima.

Deac

Max_Gator

WHAT calculation did you do?

We know that both will have equal torque.
We know that the Max is a whopping 41 lbs heavier than the Altima.
We know that the Max will have a close ratio six speed.
We know that the Max will have 20 hp more.
We know that the Max will have hlsd.

I think this shows that the Max will be faster. I didn't say it was going to be a second faster to 60.

But I believe it will be faster off the line and faster through the gears. Once the Max hits peak hp (HP is a function of torque and rpm and both account for acceleration) it will have an advantage of 20 hp and will be able to keep closer to that peak hp because of the six speed. It won't embarass the altima but will be faster.

Although 20 hp isn't that much, it translates into 17 hp at the wheels which is essentially the difference between an auto max and the 5spd.

ArcticMax

ok guys,
we know the tranny in the 02 Max is supposed to be "close ratio", but let's not think ahead until the car comes out.

We have no idea just how close those ratios are gonna be.

It could be double overdrive. We never know.

One thing we need to understand is that the Max is NOT GONNA blow the Altima away. I know the Max has one more gear, but the extra gear in 6 speed cars is usually utilized after 60 mph. So 0-60 will be almost identical.
And they both have the same torque too. The performance difference will not be that great. The Max will be slightly faster, but just slightly.

I would assume the price difference will be about $4000. If an extra gear and Helical LSD and 20 HP is worth $4000 to you, then get the Max, otherwise, get the Altima.
You cant go wrong with either one.

Personally, I would get the Altima cause its chasis is much newer, and I'm almost sure the IRS will be awesome. No more bouncing over every little speed bumps.

Azeem

Its all about the test drive, some people have questioned
if the 20hp is real hp or just 'marketing' horsepower. To
make the Maxima seem better... I say wait and drive them both.

Paul6speed

I saw the gear ratios printed somewhere. I'll go dig it up.

Autoweek says... "The six-speed manual goes from a rod linkage to a cable linkage for packaging reasons, which means a slight loss of feel, but the six ratios are specific for this application. The manual started life as a cost-effective (i.e. cheap) add-on; engineers simply put one more gear in the five-speed manual case and left the first five gear ratios as they were. But Nissan, to its credit, decided that wasn't good enough and put all-new gear sets into the box. The result is now rightfully called a "close-ratio" transmission, with all-new ratios from one to six.

We enjoyed driving each of the transmissions. The automatic shifts more quickly than we would have expected for a midsize, mass-market sedan, and the gated shifter did indeed make for easy, no-look sawing of the lever. The manual was sporty as well, with the six speeds allowing plenty of access to the power. But the engine was so broad in its power delivery, it felt almost as if a five-speed would have done the trick. The cable linkage felt a little numb compared to the more direct-acting rod linkages of old. The clutch pedal itself had too much travel, with engagement coming too high up at the top of that travel. It also felt too springy and the actual engagement could have been a little smoother.

Once engaged, power delivery was excellent. Buyers who can hold off until November can add a helical limited-slip differential, available only on manual-transmission cars. "

TexMaximum

Thanks ArcticMax, thats all I'm saying, the Maxima will not Blast the Atima. I didn't say the Maxima won't be faster, read my orginal post. Some people jump the gun. What Calculations did YOU do, OMG. IF you can't figure it out with the specs avail from both cars, I'm not going to help

vmax8

Paul, I remember seeing these stats posted, too. I made
a copy of them. -- Vincent

gear ratios for 2002 maxima SE 6spd:

1st -- 3.153
2nd -- 1.944
3rd -- 1.392
4th -- 1.055
5th -- 0.809
6th -- 0.630
reverse -- 3.002
final gear -- 3.812

gear ratios for 2001 5spd ratios:

1st--3.290
2nd--1.850
3rd--1.272
4th--0.950
5th--0.800
reverse -- 3.430
final gear -- 3.823

2k2 Max--- VQ35: 260 hp @ 5800 rpm, 246 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm
helical limited slip differential available
2k2 Max--- curb weight: 3236 lbs

2k2 Alt--- VQ35: 240 hp @ 5800 rpm, 246 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm
no lsd available
2k2 Max--- curb weight: 3195 lbs

Given the info above,
What major difference will the 0-60 times be between
the Max and the Altima?

AznWontonboy

i would swerve toward the max.. first it has that variable thing (forgot what it was) that gives it its 20hp, but i am still not so sure about it, because the rpms for the altimas max hp and max's rpms are identical for the maximum HP. if they really do have that variable thing then it will help if you add money power gains. i remember some civic boy adding a turbo and turnin off vtec and turnin it back on findin the VTEC added much more hp. (i believe around 50)

Max_Gator

Geez Tex, take it easy on me man. You said:

[Quote]DO the calculation on weight, gears, torque and HP and the new Maxima will NOT be much faster then the SE 3.5 Altima.[Quote]

My point was simple. The difference between the alty and the max is going to like the difference between a stock 5spd and a modified 5spd. Or an auto compared to a 5spd. Or even a stock auto compared to a modified auto.

A good frame of reference would be the way my 5spd would walk your I30.

Christina7m

hey-i love saying this ...IM GETTING AN ALTIMA-hopefully first girl to have a bas a^^ fixed up nissan around here. But have you also tho0ught about these two important features that are on the altima?? It has an aluminium hood and independent suspension-

I agree with everyone about test driving and also go for looks but i havent read to much info on the new maximas except all i know is that they have more alot more hp now. And at least they're both nissans so you cant go wrong in what you choose. Here in atlanta they're getting the altima next month for people that paid $1000 to get it one month earlier-..let me know on what you picked and why ...

TexMaximum

Max_Gator, I don't even think it will be that much of a diff, much closer then stock 5spd vers auto. You can come and try walking my car anyday though

Anyhow, I'll buy an Altima just to prove how close they will be, and how easy to make faster for less. Should also handle better, and keep its value longer. Like people have said, we have to see both up front.

I would consider a 2002 max or I35T if they were not going to sucker punch eveyone in another year again and if the Atlima still sucked like the previous ones.

Max_Gator

max2kgle526

No doubt, the flagship.