RS

I know the 2K+ Maximas have more horses, but it seems that every magazine's intrumented tests show they are slower or have the same performace as the previous generation. I'm talking about the 5-speed here. Is this true? Anybody agree or disagree?

madmax2k

I cant see, stock for stock, a 4g running with a 5g. The 5g's are heavier, but only about 100 lb. Of course, there will be 1000 people out there that are about to post that I am wrong

maxman2k

when the 4th gens came out there were those 3rd gen owners who swore that the 3rd gen was faster. now its the same thing. 4th gen owners think there cars are faster. however, its becoming more commonplace for 5th gen 5 speed owners to post that bone stock they are running high 14's. i have never heard of any stock 4th gen doing that. auto 5th gens are faster than auto 4th gens also. i had a 98 and now i have a 2k so i can vouch for this

Guest

I remember seeing in a magazine that even though the weight has increased, the power to weight ratio has been improved also. This would make a faster car and I don't ever remember seeing a 4th gen go 0-60 in 6.7sec in any magazines.

Paul6speed

I don't know about autos. Last night I got beat by at least 2 4th gen autos, although they have peformance mods and I don't have any. One 4th gen ran a 15.7 to my 15.9. His wasn't stock, but close to it. Eben's best run his is 96 is a 15.4, which is the same as mine. From what I've seen, they are roughly equal, especially the pre 97 one's. (less emissions). If you compare to the 98-99's, I think the 5th gen autos are faster.

blackmax2000

All the articles i've read say it's as fast if not slightly faster. I know i've beaten plenty of 4g maxima's (although may be the driver and not the car.)

TommyBoiSxty9

i thought there were tock 4th gens with 6.6 on the 5spd

Nismo87SE

Because of the way they shift. Since the 5g max has all its power at the redline unless the car shifts there your not getting full benefit. In fact unless you manually shift your only getting 195-205hp out of the 222hp Nissan gave the car. 4th gens are pretty quick because they are lighter and have a lower powerband. But on the freeway a 5th gen would walk away from a 4th gen.

maxman2k

remember that the cars arent to far seperated power to weight wise, therefore the 2k would have the slight advantage stock, but when the 4th gen is modded it makes up for that. but put the same mods on the 5th gen, so as to even the field, and the results would be that the 5th gen comes out on top more than likely.

Guest

Wishfull thinking... "my car is faster than yours"..

Here is the Truth... straight out of Motor trend (I have been collecting mags for over 8 years.. got a Sh#* load). From issues 7/99 and 2/95. Where they test the SE for both models with a 5sp. Here are the numbers....

---------------4th gen----------5th gen
0-60 mph--------6.6-------------6.7
1/4 mile time---15.2------------15.1
1/4 mile speed--92.4 mph------94.4 mph
weight-----------3010------------3199
HP---------------190 @5600rpm----222 @ 6400rpm
TQ---------------205 @4000rpm----217 @ 4000rpm
weight/power
ratio------------15.8 lb/hp------14.6 lb/hp

with that in black and white... which one is faster... well it depends... the 4th gen is quicker to 60 mph by a 1/10th of a sec.(Insignificant, I think) because it is lighter... but at the end of the 1/4 mile is where the difference shows up... the 4th gen is behind by 2 MPH... they will get to the finish line almost at the same time.. but the 5th gen will be flying a full 2 MPH faster... and if you ask me 2 mph is a nice gap...What do you think....
The engines are the same size but the 5th gen breathes a lot better.. therefore makes more power in the high end.. that's when you can tell the power advantage... when you are hammering it to redline.... the bottom end is almost identical... that's why the lighter 4th gen is quick to 60mph.. but give the 5th gen a little leg room and watch out.. it will smoke you...

Mabfnar

Good post Coolmax

RS

I collect magazines too, so here it goes, straight from Car and Driver (June 1999 and Jan 1996)


-----------97 SE------------2000 SE
0-60-------6.7--------------7.0
0-100------18.6-------------19.5
0-120------31.5-------------32.2
1/4mile----15.3@ 92---------15.6@ 91
70-0brake--187 ft-----------195 ft
Weight-----3118 lbs---------3293 lbs

So maybe, the point is, that the Maxima's additional weight is not offset much by the increased power. I'm trying to decide between a 4th gen and a 5th gen and it looks like the 5th gen just isn't noticeably faster and that they are close enough that individual production differences have more to do with it that any actual speed differences.

Max_Gator

Numbers vary so much that it's really hard to tell from the mags which is definitively faster (5spd v. 5spd). But the numbers from MT are much closer to my numbers than the Car & Driver. My 2k 5spd runs at least 15.1 (fastest of 4 runs on my first time ever to the track). I dyno'd with another guy here in Tampa with the identical car and we dyno'd the same. He ran 15.0 at the track. I believe I can easily go sub-15 with a decent launch.

The real difference in the engines seems to be from about 5100 up. Instead of the drop off/flat hp curve that the 4th gen's experience, the 2ks climb from 5100 up to 222 hp at red-line and are still pulling hard at fuel cut (6700). Torque is higher at the upper rpms too. I would think based on that that the 2k would whip the 4ths in a race from 70 up. BUT C&D shows the 97 spanking the 2k from 60-100 with a slight comeback by the 2k from 100 to 120.

What kind of times are you 4th gen guys turning stock?

Guest

The truth is that anyone can find data that backs up their opinion.... But just think about this ... why would.. a car with a much better power to weight ratio be slower... specially in the TRAP speed at the 1/4mile. Given that both models are geared the same. Now I hear that the 5th gen weighs more... whaaaa... the power increase is more than enough to make up for the added weight...Ofcourse there are a lot more variables like where in the power band all the torque is because that is where the REAL power comes from....so, if you increase or decrease the weight of a car is almost proportional to adding or decreasing the power output in a car. Therefore... when you increase the weight by 6% (200 lbs) to a car that has 190 HP.. you must add about 12-15 Hp to it... that's in a perfect world... that would work .. but given that the power increase in the VQ30DE-K is mostly in the high end of the power band that differance is mostly advantageous when pushing the car... but luckly there is a relative power increase that is higher than the relative weight increase...

There is also the DRAG factor.. it takes more power to to overcome drag at higher speeds and that's one area that the 5th gen kicks ***. (est. top speed 143mph) according to nissan.

RS

Generally, for every 100 lbs you gain on a car, it will be slower in the quarter by a tenth. Even in a perfect world, I don't think you can consider an X% increase in weight can be offset by an X% increase in horsepower because, like you said, there are too many other factors and it isn't a directly proportional relationship. What made me think of all of this is that I know three 4th gen owners that have driven the new 2K and have said that it "feels" slower. Then there are the magazine times that seem to flip flop between the two. I can understand the top end argument, but the new Max did gain 12 ft-lbs of torque at the same peak RPM of 4000, so that is something that should definitely be felt on the street and not just at the track.

If the 2K+ had a noticeable increase in torque for the "stoplight grand prix" and around town driving, it would probably sway me enough to buy one verses the 4th gen. But if it is strictly on the high end and only noticeable in a 1/4 mile or top speed run then I'll probably pass.

Guest

that is a quetion that every enthusiast asks when he modifies his ride... unless it's the same car with added performance.. it's hard to compare which one is faster just by the seat of the pants... it's fun though... anyways.. the reason the 5th gen feels or doesn't feel faster is because of the more "refined" feel... engeneers are always trying to refine the ride in every new model.. so 100 MPH feels different from one model to another.. to exagerate this try driving 100 mph in a Lexus or a Benz or Beemer... you cant even feel it..... but it doesn't matter... because you are still hauling ***... to make a long story short... get together with a 4th gen and a 5th gen and let the RACES comence!!!! if that doesn't convince you let me take you on a little spin in my Maxx... I'll show you SLOW....

RS

You are probably right about the sensation of speed. I wonder if anyone has run a stock 4th gen 5-spd verses a stock 5th gen.

doublea

iTrader: (7)

I just sold my 4 th generation 98SE and it's been 2 weeks since I have my 2001 20 th anniversary,there is a noticable difference, the 5th generation is definitely more powerfull and faster ( I presume )I am still roding it. I had the 98 for 3 years and I was very happy with it,but the 2001 is a greater car.

Neo Max

Individual cars can vary tremendously even between examples from the same model year. The Lambo Diablo 6.0 is a precision crafted hand built machine and its power can actually range from 500-600hp!! That's quite a difference. I have even noticed my car runs differently on different brands of premium gas so the bottom line is how does your car run? Drive a few and buy the one that feels fastest cause it probably is.

Dave B

I think, stock for stock, a 95-96 Maxima 5 speed is going to be incredibly close to a stock 00 Maxima 5 speed. I think the new Max makes more power, put the powerband has shifted therefore making accleration suffer down low. The new Max gained well over 120lbs in the redesign which does make a large difference. Don't buy into the "for every 100lbs, you lose a tenth". That only applies to big torquey V8 street machine. When you're talking about a small displacement motor with lower torque, it's harder for the engine to accelerate that mass. Why do you think Hondas are so slow when they've got extra people in the car? The 97-99 Maxima seem to be significantly slower than the 95/96 Maxs. At my track, I have a friend who's got a 98 Max that has more mods than myself (HKS muffler, RT cat at the time) and he was only running 15.8@90mph to my 14.9@94mph. He was running on his larger rims at the time, but there is definately a difference.

Once you mod a 4th gen 95/96, a stock 5th gen doesn't stand much of a chance in the 1/4. I can wind out my motor and make power to an indicated 6300 rpms which ain't bad. When you mod a 5th gen I think all things become equal again. I don't think the 5th gen takes to mods like the 4th gen 95/96 does. Maybe it's an emissions thing. If this UPRD chip comes thru for the 4th gen and it's as good has everyone says, the 5th gen could be a fading memory.

All in all, both cars offer about the same performance stock and modified. The 5th gen is a little nicer and a little more executive. I'd be happy with either. After seeing SoloII's photoshop pic of his 00 GXE in yellow with white wheels, it really open up my mind that I wouldn't mind owning a modded 00 GXE.

Dave

Mabfnar

The 5th generation cars are getting alot of technological upgrades that many aftermarket dealers have not successfully addressed. The changes seem to be greater in the 5th gen than they were from 3rd to 4th. Aftermarket dealers did not take into consideration some of those changes, hence companies like stillen stopped selling supercharges to automatics. In less than a year a modified 5th gen will beat those numbers. In less than a year a stock 5th gen may beat its current numbers. Again the 2000 maxima is longer and wider as well as added many safety features(side airbags) and "beefed" up many of the handling mechanical parts making it a little heavier.

Again I think alot of you are indeed falling prey to the "I think my older car is better than the newer one"...it isn't. I am sure some diehard 5th gens will be doing the same when the 6th gens come out.

[Edited by Mabfnar on 10-24-2000 at 01:47 PM]

Dave B

I don't know exactly what has been done to "maximize" the 5th gens VQ. Right from the start you guys got a varible runner composite intake maniolfd(big plus) and a revised muffler system. You really can't optimize this VQ anymore. The addition of a Y-pipe, b-pipe, and intake are always good, but I seriously think the 5th gen and later 4th gen Max's just don't take to mods as good as the 95-96 Max's. I don't think the 5th gen will ever get a ECU upgrade either because no one can break into the Nissan code for 97+ Maximas.

My biggest complaint about my 96 Max was that it seemed to die out halfway through 3rd when it was stock. Now that I've done some deep breathing mods, my 3rd gear is by far my most wicked gear. I walk people hard in this gear. If they can hnag with me thru 2nd, they won't stand a chance when I get into 3rd. This is why I say a modded 4th gen will possibly walk away from a stock 5th gen. The 4th gen is a better stoplight racer and it will also have the topend power that it lacked.

All things considered, there is no data anywhere that suggests the "new" Maxima is signicantly better than the old. The 5th gen doesn't accelerate any quicker, doesn't handle any better, and doesn't brake any better. This isn't a bad thing and I'm not flaming you guys or your cars. I really like the 5th gen Max. I have yet to see any modded Max come remotely close to running what Jeff K
ran in his 95 SE. Jeff isn't some expert driver, he didn't power shift, and he wasn't hard on his car. I think that says a lot. No one ever believed Bryan H about his modded 92 SE that ran mid 14s with the same mods everyone does to their 4th and 5th gens. I know Bryan and I rode in his car and I've seen the timeslips. All in all, a well modded 3rd gen VE, 4th gen, and 5th gen Max are all going to perform very close to one another.

Finally, the reason the new Maxima feels like it handles better is because it is a more substainal car (more weight). Heavier cars feel more planted. I always felt my Max felt really light on it's feet and almost felt twitchy due to it's light weight.

Dave

Mabfnar

Your post seems extremely biased...
The 5th gen handles a lot better than a 4th gen. Although the underlying body structure is based on that of the preceding car, there have been comprehensive changes made there, too. The floorpan stamping is longer, and there is a new engine-compartment bulkhead. Reinforcements have been added to the front-subframe mounting points, rear suspension mounts, rear lateral-link mount, rear-shock top mounts, side sills, roof rails, A-pillars, and B-pillars. Add strengthened floor crossmembers and upper door structures, and the result is a body boasting 30 percent better torsional rigidity than a 4th gen.
The new 2000 weighs 175 pounds more, and yet its power-to-weight ratio shows an 11-percent improvement, with virtually no change in gearing, so you can easily expect future Maximas to improve on that performance.
The 2K has a revised body that is about an inch longer, 0.6 inch wider, and 0.8 inch higher, and with a wheelbase two inches longer. A redesigned front end does a lot to modernize the Maxima's face, and although new tail styling and lights have spruced up the car's problematic hind end, it still ain't a lovely sight. The base of the windshield is two inches farther forward in the 2000 Maxima, lending more of that contemporary, cab-forward look. The steering has benefited clearly from Nissan's remedial work-up. On-center feel is distinctly better than the previous car's, and the wheel is much better isolated from road vibrations.
One might reasonably also expect good deceleration, and to that end Nissan has fitted the 2000 Maxima with larger front brake rotors and redesigned calipers. It has also replaced the eight-bit ABS controller with a 16-bit unit, but our heavier test car stopped from 70 mph in 195 feet—eight more than the '95.

As far as modifying the car is concerned...again I state your opinions apparantly seem biased. I do not doubt you have a fast car. But, again, it is still too early to assume that aftermarket companies can address new generation changes as quickly as they used to. Most new cars are trying to increase interior space (which the 2000 is considerably larger) and decrease the areas used by the engine. This compaction poses many problems for aftermarket designers, yet it does not make anything impossible. Wait a year...if improvements are not made then speak your mind...

By the way...most of the above came from Car and Driver magazine...

[Edited by Mabfnar on 10-24-2000 at 03:22 PM]

Guest

I was getting ready to vote MABFNAR for president but... then I read that car and driver magazine thing on the bottom... anyways... good to see people paying attention to all the small details... I do...

Dave B

Show me any automotive publication that shows the 5th gen Maxima signicantly out performing the 4th gen Max in braking, acceleration, and handling. The way it "feels" is one thing, the numbers it generates is what really counts. All the rags have gotten 6.6X-7.0 0-60s, 15.1-15.5 1/4 miles, .83-.85g on the skidpad, and 125-135 foot braking from 60-0 in both the 5th and 4th gen Maxima. To me, it looks like they are pretty evenly matched. I don't care that the 5th gen Max has 11% more power because the added weight negates and shifted powerband negates it's advantage.

As for styling that's all opinion based. I like both.

Dave

MaxRX7

Where are the critics that say that on the magazine results the driver of the 1997 was 30lbs. lighter than when he tested the 2000 after eating hamburgers for those 3 years.

Also, the 4th vs. 5th gen, is not too legitamate to test. There are sooo many factors that can vary the outcome.

Guest

Dave you are 100% correct... You forgot one little detail... You can't buy a 4th gen. anymore.... not new anyways... and some of us want the full new car warranty... and besides I like the look of the new max better than the 4th gen.... so we could pull all sort of facts and figures and make them support anything that we want....the performance differance being so small ... it's really up to the driver.... unless they both do their best and then the 5th gen will KICK A-S-S !!!!!...

max2kgle526

In the old 4th gen maxima ad, they claim that Motor Trends best 0-60 time was an SE 5-spd, and they claimed 7.1 seconds. That was stated in the nissan ad. And you and I both know that companies always post the best results, and nissan posted 7.1 0-60. I am not saying that the 4th gens suck, personally even though I have a 2k GLE, I think the 99 maxima looks better in its own way. I think Nissan could have kept the liscense plate on the bumper instead of on the trunk, and kept the "MAXIMA" written out in big letters.

Dave B

Max2KGLE526-
Motor Trend got a 6.6 0-60 out of the 4th gen Max. They got lots of sub 7 0-60s. They also got a 7.4 0-60 and 15.6@90mph time for an automatic 97 I30. The 4th gen can perform.

Everyone-
My point has always been the 5th Gen Maxima is not significantly quicker or handles significantly better than the 4th gen. That was it. I wasn't talking about looks, availibilty, etc. They are both sweet rides.

Dave

Paul6speed

I agree with the peformance, except the trap speeds in the 1/4 on 5th gens are higher. I disagree on handling. No comparison. My 5th gen GXE kills my 99 GXE in handling. The moved the rear mulitlink behind the beam, which makes a big difference.

madmax2k

It doesnt seem to me that the power band has been shifted on the 5th gen. Below 5000 rpm, the 4g and 5g look almost identical to a dyno. Its just the 5000 rpm manifold switchover that gives the 5g its better top end torque. On a dyno chart, this swicthover is obvious. And, pretty cool . Kinda VTEC'ish.

Mabfnar

DAVE
YOU DON"T MAKE SENSE>>>NOW YOUR SAYING THE NUMBERS ARE SIMILAR....GUESS WHAT...THE CAR IS ALMOST 200 LBS HEAVIER AND PRODUCING SILMILAR IF NOT BETTER NUMBERS. AS FAR AS IMPROVING IS CONSERNED, NISSAN HAS NOT EVEN ADJUSTED THE GEARING..SO THEY CAN EASILY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE 11% POWER TO WEIGHT RATIO INCREASE. FURTHERMORE TO SAY HOW CAN THE IMPROVE ON THE VQ? HEY THEY FOUND A WAY WITH THE 5TH GEN FROM THE 4TH GEN...WHY CAN'T THEY FIND A WAY AGAIN?

My point is that they took a car made it roomier and more comfortable at the cost of added weight and found a way to increase the power and structural integrity in order to keep the similar types of "numbers" as its predecessors. And the kicker is that they still have room to improve. 90% of the time car manufaturers improve on previous editions...it's stubborn to think they have not done so.

[Edited by Mabfnar on 10-25-2000 at 09:25 AM]

Kevin Wong

I revved to 2,000 and dropped the clutch, the dealer told me to. He said no one has ever done it and he wanted the experience. Honestly. It was a lot of fun, but I thought to myself that for 32 more hps, I didn't feel it on the acceleration. It did feel more powerful, but the acceleration was the same on my 97 SE.

Empz

Both Auto (don't ask)!!!

From driving / stop light racing BOTH of em ... the 4th gen, seems a slightly quicker for the first 40-55 MPH, but once its gets to the 60+ the 5th gen can be Significantly noticed!!!!

I DO like the SOUND of the 4th gen better under WOT ... it sounded DEEPER and more of a GROWL!!!

The 5th Gen sounds higher pitched it sound ... not as Pleasing ... Guess its time to get an Exhaust!