OK, got just one side in for wire testing and noticed a few issues.

1) I used the relay diagram, works like a charm (no blinking high light indicator)aside one hiccup. The relay "whines/hums" when activated. Why? That should not happen correct?
2) I have cut NO wires on the factory system, but have unplugged all but side marker in bumper and fogs. But the fogs are turned off.
3) I can turn the lights on and off with the key not in the ignition. I was unable to do that prior. I.E. no self shutoff anymore? I do not seem to remember that as part of the deal.

For those that have installed, let me know relay or not and what you notice from above if it applies to your setup.

Thanks.
Jon

 

you always could turn the lights on with the key out. they just won't shut itself off after that, or do they still do, I haven't tried. I know if say your lights are on when you shut the car off, you open the door and the lights go off. Well, it will only go back on with the key out of ignition is only if you turn the switch to off and the back to one of the light "on" positions. As for the self shut off after you turn the switch to off and then back on with the key out, you'll just have to try it and see. It usually shuts off with the key in, in about 5 min. (assuming you didn't put the switch to off or open the door.

 

Yep, found that out while additional testing, but thanks for the head up though. I found out this.

Key in, lights on, key out...light auto off.
Key out, lights on/off...no auto control.
Key out, lights on, key in, lights stay on, key out...lights auto off.

I have put in both assemblies and the relays still buzz. That is the only problem I currently have....Ideas/thoughts from EE people?

 

I noticed a slight buzz from HIDs.. but not really that audible. I'm assuming you are using the beefy Nissan relay.. if its a cheapy, there's your problem. most issues like buzzing, are ground related. You arent grounding the light and relay at the same point are you? 'cause that'll do it.

 

Hey Hey. did you use ICEy or BigDons writeup... i need to find the one for DUMMIEs. What other extra stuff did you need? I gotta go buy wire or something? What this Nissan Relay thing..
Roger

 

YES I am...so that be the ticket eh...I am not EE so this is almost beyond my comprehension. So I have to ground at two seperate instances then. I.E. two seperate screws? I am using the 30 amp relay from Hella that Alex recommended....Hmmmmm.

The noise is definately from the relay not the lamps because I just had the HB hooked up at the time.

I shall await your reply....

Thanks
Jon

 

I used Ice's schematic and it works perfectly to a 'T' minus my mistakes...Not his schematic. If you work it out on paper and then rough wire it before hooking up ANY power...its cake. Took me about 4 hours to wire up before hooking up to power. I wanted to make sure it was perfect so I did not blow anything up. Its very straight forward.

Look on his homepage and go to page 4/5 and it has needed stuff.
I got the following:
-Loom
-20' 14 gauge red/black (overkill to much)
-.250 female 14/16 gauge connectors (package ~15)
-.250 male 14/16 guage connectors (package ~15)
-.250 RING connector (package ~15)
-(2) inline fuse connector
-7.5 amp fuses (2)
I had everything else. Just go slow you'll be fine

 

So nissan relay not really recommended? Hella is "hella" better? (ok sorry..just thought i'd throw in some late night humor)

 

Another wonderful "feature" of the 2K2 HIDs.

[b]Colonel[\b]
1)Double check your terminals to make sure they are CORRECT.
2)Try another relay.
3)Try grounding the Lo beam and relays' ground screw in different spots.(Make sure you have good grounds)
4)I'll tell you if those don't work.

 

I played a little hooky today from work...*cough* *cough*
here is what I have tried.

1) Hooked HID ground to ground strap right by windshield washer filler neck, HB to same screw...buzzz
2) Hooked HID ground to same screw and HB to ground screw just over the cam cover (there are two ground screw assemblies there) buzz
3) Just hooked up the ground for the HB to the cam cover ground screw.
...buzzz...
4) Just hooked up ground for HB on screw by filler neck...buzzz

Assumptions:
1) If I use a ground screw already denoted/used in the car, I should be able to use said ground for my light assemblies.
2) The relay is making the proper connection because brights are going on and off, just making a buzzing sound. Is there not enough juice to make it close correctly? I am assuming we are using the relay in reverse order...usually you use the relay to "switch" power not ground...or am I smoking the good stuff again?


According to the schematic on the back of relay box is as follows
4 "prong" relay--> 30,85,86,87
30 battery
86 switch
87 consumer (?)
85 earth.

30---/ ---87
|
86----[ ]----85

All prongs on relay are "silver" except for 87 which is a copper color. I used Alex's schemo which seems correct for the intent and purpose we are using here.

Opinions/thoughts?

Jon

 

Correct me, Tim, if I'm wrong (and I hope I'm not wrong because I ordered the Nissan Relay), but I think Tim meant that he is assuming he is using the beefy Nissan relay, but if he isn't and the relay is a cheapy - then that's the problem. I don't think that he was saying that the Nissan Relay is a cheapy - but that's just how I read it.

 

about the nissan relay by the leads to the connector, and what the dealer told me about its spec. we are talking about 25230-9b900. he could have a bad relay or it might be unsuitable.

this is all conjecture from me, as I planned my install for this weekend. the main reason I bought the nissan relay was for moisture resistance and OEM look. I have a box full of bosch and porterfield relays (from car alarms). the only downside to those is that I dont have the molded harness for them, whereas the Nissan relay does.

 

Tim,

I am using the Hella relay...what is the part number of the Nissan relay and what did it cost ya? I am going to try and snag one/two at lunch and test. Had to end up going to work...DOH!

 

its
25230-9B900 = relay ~$11
B4344-0MFL0 = harness (its nice 'n thick) ~$6
25235-N8500 = little metal mounting clip ~ $1

Ability to see the road at night = priceless

those are approx dealer prices. I'm looking at the invoice, I think those are the right numbers on the harness and clip.

 

Thanks for the number...I am "assuming the harness is what the relay plugs into and has bare wires on the other end for hooking up correct?

Did yours come with a schemo? And one last assumption...it has four "prongs" correct?

Thanks
Jon

 

correct... and it has 4 prongs.. not very well documented tho. its VERY OEM

 

OEM eh....DOH! Well, I guess I will find out here soon...

 

I GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The relay is not receiving enough voltage because of two reasons. First, it's "downstream" of the 9005 therefore there is some voltage drop. Second, when the relay closes the path to ground draws the current away from the coil causing it to lose power, thus causing the switch to open, then the current in the coil goes up, causes the switch to close, and it keeps doing this very FAST and creates a BZZZZZZZZZZ.

Anyways, two ways to fix this problem.
Simplest is 1):
1)connect terminal 86 to the battery. Anywhere, "upstream" of the 9005 bulb is fine. Basically, tap the power wire coming off the battery to the 9005 bulb preferably AFTER the 7.5A fuse. This will give the coil enough voltage to operate.

2)Move the relay "upstream" of the 9005. There will be enough voltage(since NO drop across the 9005) to power the coil and supply the bulb.

Colonel, try connecting a wire from terminal 86 directly to the battery to see if I'm correct.

 

Just when I thought I could do this, you had to throw out posts like this. Now I am extremely concerned!!!!!

 

Dont worry. Its a small hiccup...Should be solved momentarily.

Jon

 

Don't worry!

This is a minor issue that probably doesn't even happen when the car is running, which is when you NORMALLY use the HI-beams. The problem is that he was running off battery which is usually not 12V, more like 10.5-11.5 Volts and the relays are 12-Volt relays. With the voltage drop across the bulb and the sub 12-Volt battery output, the relay was not in its operating range.

Minor issues have popped up, but these are expected and usually easy to fix. It kind of makes me appreciate the Engineering aspects of design/testing cycle and process. Typically, theoretical designs like this, are NOT perfect, because you can't account for "unknowns"(sp?) such as the combo switch resistance, alarm/AUTO dependancy, and system requirements.

Anyways, PROBLEM SOLVED!

 

and to simplify what he was saying

[battery] ---[fuse]--- [+ 9005] ---- [ + relay power] = bad

[battery] ---[fuse] ----[+ 9005]
|
----[+ relay]
is all good

 

LOL, I am lost again....DOH!

 

Alex,

In the proposed fix, the only thing that should be changed is that 1 wire should be moved to a constant fused source. That would be pin 86. BUT, there is always a but, when you put a multimeter to the green/balck with the lights on, you get 12.25 voltage reading. When light off, no reading. SOoo, this is me thinking...carefull of the following. Would you not want to have pin 86 ground/frame instead of power? That way the power would be from 85 through the coil to 86 and the others would function as a switch? Meaning no movement of the rest of the wires other than 86?

What do you think? Scary huh!?

 

No, you guys are great - I'm sure that you guys solved the problem - I'm not concerned about the buzzing, just my complete ignorance about relays and stuff so when you were using those numbers and the pretty diagrams and the 'upstream', I got concerned!! I just need to get intehre with everything and look at it before I get too panicked, but after reading Ice's write up and looking at his schematics, I was firly confident, now that we have relay diagrams, I may have overestimated my ability. I'm still going to give it a shot, but I am more worried than I was.

The people who have done this successfully, who have worked hard to figure out problems and who have answered my questions however stupid they are are great. I really appreciate your work and your willingess to be helpful.

Thanks again.

 

DOnt short change yourself so quickly. If you can read the schemo from Alex's page, then you are 99% there. We are just modifying one pin at this moment because there is not enough power to keep the relay closed so it "buzzes" meaning it is opening/closing extremely quickly. Don't let the techno mumbo jumbo worry ya. If you can follow the end schemo...thats all you need to worry about. Keep watching, we will have the solution in a short while...stay tuned!

 

Alright...here we go....

After spending time looking,talking,looking some more I think I have the basic solution.

You want to activate the coil in the relay to "complete the circuit". This energizing of the coil moves a contact inside the relay that acts as a switch. You need a positive and negative for the coil and then a positive and negative for the "switch". On the Hella relay the coil prongs are 85,86 (Nissan prongs are 1,2) and the contact prongs are 30,87 (Nissan prongs 3,5). Using Alex's schemo, you need only to move one wire. In the schemo there are 2 contacts going to the lamp 30,86. Instead you want 86 to go to ground to complete the "coil" side of the relay. By doing this the power supplied by the interior stalk switch get to go to ground with the 86 to ground. Then when you turn on the switch, the coil energizes, connects the contacts and completes the circuit. The ground is broken by the contact/coil not being activated so no feedback throught the system. The contacts (prongs 30,87) think of as cutting a wire. The coil activates and "completes" the wire.

This might be common knowledge to some, but I had to figure it out with some outside help. I hope we all can get some use out of this. My thanks to Tim, Alex and all who have contributed to fixing this issue. I have not tested yet..still at work..but will within 2 or 3 hours.

Later!

See, its cake......

 

No. If your setup is EXACTLY like my schematic, you need to supply power to 86.

See http://images.cardomain.com/installs...72_40_full.jpg

 

The H4 plug provides a GROUND through the green/black stripe wire.

You need to provide power to 86 and the ground through the H4 by connecting to terminal 85. This is both sides of the coil. You MIGHT be able to reverse this, but 86 is called the coil INPUT and 85 is the coil OUTPUT so I'd keep the current flowing the same direction.

Again, +12 into 86. Then when you switch the stalk the green/black stripe wire provides GROUND to terminal 85. Damn it, just look at my previous post.

 

Easy..easy...I am not trying to create waves. I still going to try your way first...I will let you all know how it goes....sorry to offend anybody....

Jon

 

Colonel, Did you get my emails?

No, I didn't mean to sound rude. It's just hard to explain. The schematic should show you what I'm talking about.


I know why your confused! You think the Green/black wire is putting out 12-Volts. It's not. It provides a GROUND path when the LO-beams are switched on. Therefore, it should be connected to 85.

I also thought this when I first put a meter on the H4-plug. Actually, you are reading an open circuit which happens to APPEAR to have 12-volts on it, due to the fact you were using the car chasis as a ground for the negative meter terminal. Trust me it's not. The H4 plug has one power(orange/black) and two switched grounds low(green/black) and high(blue/black).

 

No harm or offense taken....

OK, as Alex proved me wrong it works his way with just a touch of an issue. No more flash to pass. Should you activate the brights by pushing forward, they stay on by themselves. No biggie. BUT...you have to active the HID's to get them to turn off. Pull back on the stalk from bright to no brights and they stay on. Uggg! Man Nissan sucks! Also when you are in no brights position and pull back on the stalk to "flash pass". They stay on. Again only way to turn off is to activate the HIDS.

When the HIDS are on, the brights work as needed flash to pass is there and brights on and off work. No problem. Just when the HIDS are off the problem exists.....

BUT the good side is that the relays no longer hum and my brights are white, not yellow as before this problem.

O.K. guys how do we solve this new stupid problem? I am installing as is tonight but would like to get rid of this last stickler of an issue.

Jon

 

Damn where have I been for this thread, already 3pages long.

And funny thing is I get NO BZZZZZZZZZZZZ from my assemblies.

Wierd

 

HAHA you sound EXACTLY like me. At first I thought it wasn't gonna be that bad, but since I know nothing at all about relay's, I'm pretty worried... I guess I need to study the schematics more to try to get an idea... All these things that you guys are talking about, do you happen to be adding them to your webpage of what to do?

 

See page two of the thread..Alex posted a url with a jpg. That is the updated relay schemo...If you can read that and what is on his home page, you will hit a home run. I just finished mine and took for a test spin...I LIKEEEEEE! I did spend some time wiring up my "harnesses
" before install and tested to make sure it all worked. That is how I came up with the issues in this thread.

Now I have to get rid of the alarm flashing and I am good to go...Although for the H4 harness, be patient trying to get the connector out. It took me awhile to remove the wire/female metal connector. Basically you have to push a screwdriver between the rounded edge and the black plastic and pry out. That was the only part that slowed me down this evening...


Just trust yourself and go slow....it really is not that hard.

Thanks to Alex for setting me straight and gettin me "hooked up"

Later all...bedtime for me!

 

I like them alot! They were almost perfectly aligned when I installed. Just a slight tweek needed. Now, I am going to await the new problem fix and the rewire using the Nissan relays..


Hey Alex, is it possible to tap a "ignition switched" power for lead 86 instead of the battery? I think that might be one of the causes for some of the weird behavior I am experiencing...?

Jon

 

what behavior?

 

Sure. You can tap an ignition hot wire for 86 instead of the battery. However, I'm not sure if that's going to fix anything. Give it a try and let us know.

Why are you going to switch to Nissan relays? Stealthier install?

 

The issue with how the brights behave. With the HIDs off, once you activate the brights via flash to pass or push forward, they will not turn off until you activate the HIDs. That is why I was thinking that instead of taking pin 86 and hooking to constant power, I should hook to an ignition switched power source and the problem, I think, might go away.

If the HIDs are on, the brights operate correctly as if no modifications were made to the system.

 

Hmm, not sure what to do then if that will not work. Somehow when the HID circuit is active, the relay works properly. When its not active somehow I cannot get the HB circuit to deactivate. Somehow there is something still sorta active to allow me to close but not open the relay.

I am going to go to the Nissan relay and harness for weatherability and some stealth as well. Tim pointed me that way, little more expensive but will clean up some of my messy wiring...