02SE6MT

ok guys, time to consolidate all my information ive gathered in the past couple of days and post about my problem.
I recently (about 3 weeks ago) purchased an 02 maxima se 6spd. when i got it the car ran great, loved it, SO MUCH POWER! anyways I did notice that the CEL flickered a little bit. never thought anything of it, about a week later i ended up needing a MAF sensor (2400 rpm shutoff, no CEL) and put an 01 in and transferred the ait sensor over.
well about 3 days ago i was driving down the highway in the rain and the car lost power, still ran (crappily) and would get starved around 3-4k rpm. like it was really straining to rev. so i took it home checked the fluids and all the good stuff leaving myself confused as they were all ok (did end up putting about a quart of oil in it) so i take the car to autozone and pull the codes:
*P0011-IVT control solenoid curcuit failure BANK 1
*P0430- catalyst efficiency low BANK 2
*P0113- AIT circuit
*P0102- MAF
*P0138- HO2S 12 circuit condition BANK 1 sensor 2 (o2 sensor)
and my favorite
*P0650-MIL circuit fault

So, after seeing all these codes i realized that some of them may have been from a while ago. so i had the codes cleared and went for a drive, the car still runs decently until about 3-4k rpm and then its almost like starving for air. it looses what power it does have and would take alot of time (comparitively) to go anywhere beyond 4k rpm. so i took the car back to autozone today and read the codes and it seems there are 2 codes, BOTH of which are P0138 the 2nd o2 sensor on bank 1. the car runs but is still very sluggish, also there is a definate increase in volume from the intake. No matter what RPM. for example when i first got the car 2.5k rpm let out a nice growl, but only at 2.5k rpm. now if i drive in say second gear at around 700 rpms and get on the gas it instantly starts growling real deep (stock airbox kinda, i removed the large "scoop" piece of plastic) from as low as i have the rpm's when i hit the gas. the higher rpms if you can call 3500 high produces a much different tone, i cant really describe it. if you had a blind guy drive my car he would shift early (3-4k rpm) bc the power falls off and it sounds like its straining almost. pulls ok from xxx-3000 rpm and then it quits pulling (to about corolla power), by 4000 rpm (another second or two later) the engine seems way to stressed to keep pushing. No jerking, the power that it does give is smooth, no misfires, backfires or anything. when in park it revs to 5 and 6 without hinting of internal part failure, but i can still tell when i hit the gas in nuetral the sound of the intake. its alot different and the only thing im experiencing except for power loss that is not normal.

thanks to all, i appreciate anyones help and replies

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I’m betting MAF. 3 codes point to it, not to mention the symptoms do as well. Take the sensor out, and carefully examine the IAT.

02SE6MT

if it was the MAF wouldnt it go into the 2400 rpm safe mode. the only code i got now is the o2 sensor code but the only reason i havent replaced it is because from what i understand the o2 sensor wont make the car run like crap. RANDOM thought : if the o2 sensor was reporting to the ecu that the engine was running extremely rich (can't a faulty sensor do that) would the ecu try to balance out the A/F ratio by changing something to do with the intake hence the sound difference im hearing? i just cant do the math where faulty o2 sensor = both running sluggish and the intake sound. im beginning to think something mechanical is broken. but the car runs smoothly

02SE6MT

ok well i took it to the shop today after replacing freakin o2 sensor, only because that was the only code in there and i had it cleared 3 times and it came back everytime, still runnin crappy (now i have a backup o2 sensor lol) anyways the mech started it up and revved it one time and judging by what i told him and what he heard, he said it sounded like the timing was off, possibly jumped a tooth. well i thought about that but i thought with the vq35 and all the fancy Continuously Controlled valve timing (the 2 sprockets and chains) it would be more difficult than to just jump a tooth. well, any comments help, lemme know what yall think, thanks guys

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

That's not always the case (MAF/safe mode/2400RPM). That's the case of an absolutely annihilated MAF, a dying maf might do what you've described. And unless someone went in there and played with the timing chains (water pump, etc) the timing should be fine.

You've checked all intake piping etc and verified that there is no intake leak or anything of that nature, correct? Why not post a sound clip of how it sounds. How does it sound/run @ idle? How about when revved?

02SE6MT

Actually noticed today at a light to drop the car off a little shaking in the steering wheel, you had to be holding onto it to tell but it was shaking ever so slightly, however the RPM's LOOKED as though they were stable/constant.

well the car is in the shop now, but it was a very unique sound. it almost came to me as a raggedy @$$ pontiacwith exhaust drove by.
It just sounds as:
A: its straining way to hard. like my first time riding in my bros integra, the dohc sound just almost resonates in the cockpit. actually you know when the VQ35 almost tells you to shift (when runnin good) at right over 6K (sounds similar to Valve Float in my camry)? thats what it sounds like at 3600 rpm, and its not easy to get it to go over 4.5-5k rpm.
B: i dont hear any intake valve changes (timing/lift). like when the usual grunt i got at 2500 rpm.

and luckily as the car is now in the shop i made a video of my in 2nd gear doing a rolling start pretty slow to get the revs low then took it up to right after 5K .

Let me know what you guys think: http://www.mediafire.com/?a19vnebxmpn

ALSO A QUICK QUESTION: is the VQ35DE a NON-INTERFERENCE engine?

02SE6MT

ok well i assume its jumped some teeth and the timings off. i guess ill post when i get the car back to let everyone who was stumped what the problem is so when the next kid asks we'll ba able to help em out.

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

Definitely interested to see what the problem(s) were. Hope you don't get killed too bad on the repairs.

When I bought mine, I put a bit less down so I'd have ample funds just in case. You just never know with a used car, even if everything checks out and the test drive goes well.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Check the timing with a timing light.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Any updates? If not, here's some more advice:

If the IAT is ok, I would say try going the DAVEB route. If it doesn’t work, sell it, and get a used MAF from www.car-part.com, a better reliable unit would come from DAVEB again, BUT, cheaper route would be to go to www.car-part.com.

It’s strange (rare) for the IAT to go out, but it seems as if you just got the car, so you don’t really know the history. With that said, well, it’s hard to say what was done to it, much less it’s poor wittle IAT.

Hence why I advise to check the sensor for obvious damage/breakage. Maybe the previous owner forgot to plug the MAF back in, in affect settings off the IAT code. The only time I got that code was when I did just that (drove car w/ MAF disconnected).

02SE6MT

i called today and the guy said he hadnt gotten a chance to look at it, which bugged the crap outta me bc i coulda stayed home this holiday weekend and tore into it, but he said he did manage to take it for a spin and hes "99%" sure its timing because of the notable intake sound and the power falling off early. his next plans are to check with the engine guy and see about how much time to pull the timing chain covers and inspect the sprockets and chain guides, and to see if infact the timing is off. hes going to call me tomorrow, before he does any work with a list of work to be done. how long do you think it takes to do that amount of work. and what work is it really to get the chain covers off? i know at a certain point you have to get down to the crank, right? but for a timing issue should i expect this amount of work? i just want my maxi back and am just trying to get an estimate on what kinda $$$ its gonna take. thanks for any replies

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Why does he not check the timing with a timing light? Seems like an easier task versus taking apart the timing components.

Don't let them rape you more than they already have. You have failed to answer me the other question, i.e. MAF/IAT. Seriously, I would have tried to change the MAF before I tried the timing chain.


So 3 codes point to MAF, and you still haven't at least tried changing it? You have to help yourself before we can help you. Ask him to check the codes again. And report back with them.

02SE6MT

well i agree but the maf is new, about a 2 weeks old, and i did remove it to check it and even soldered the iat sensor to make sure it wasnt that, remind you the car did once before show symptoms of a baf MAF and when i replaced it, the car ran like normal, i also never cleared the codes because i could tell no CEL was on due to the p0650 MIL circuit fault. since clearing the codes i have had nothing but an 02 sensor failure on bank 1 which is also the side closest to the tensioner. also its hard to ignore such a difference in intake noise, i originally thought something had broken inside the engine because everything was hooked up exactly as before but the intake volume had increased 2 fold.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

And the timing light?

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

Did you ever get your car fixed?

02SE6MT

ok, well the car is in the shop and the mechanic says he keeps clearing the code and gets the p0650 MIL circuit failure. and he says right next to the code it says it will cause the car to enter limp mode. He wants to replace the control box that includes the CEL because its the "only thing it could be" causing the P0650. would this code cause my engine to enter limp mode. I called Dave B and he says if it does enter the limp mode it will be the SAME program as the MAF sensor failure and cause the engine to die at 2400 rpm. is this true? is it possible for the engine to enter a reduced power state with the P0650 code and still rev above 2400 rpm. and i also asked about the timing light and he said he couldnt do that bc we have no markings to check with the light. thanks for your help all, eventually ill make it through this...

mikek78

Keep us updated, I definitely would like to find out what could be the cause, in case I should ever come across similar symptoms...knock on wood...

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Limp mode and safe mode are 2 different operating 'modes'. I cannot remember which is which, but 1 will not let the engine rev past 2400, and the other will be completely limp(horrifically slow throttle plate opening and wont let it open more than 10% IIRC)

Get yourself an FSM (www.VQ35DE.com/ESM)get some reading done on that particular code(P0650).

brusk

iTrader: (1)

I've never heard of a change jumping teeth they are designed not to be able to do this unlike a belt. As for checking the timing with a timing light that is ignition timing completely different than cam timing. If you are hearing the intake alot more and it's running worse the higher you rev I'd have to put money on an intake leak somewhere. I had a similar problem with I put my intake spacers on one nut on the intake came loose and it would growl nice and loud and not go anywhere. This might have been the same problem that cause the code for the MAF seeing how it would cause similar conditions. To check for intake leaks just let it idle and spray carb cleaner all over the intake at the seams and if the rpm's change you know where your leak it.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Like I've pointed out before, if prior work was performed that would include any timing 'work' (water pump, cvtc, ) it is possible when they reassembled, this may have occurred. Quite common in the 4th gen, and, aside from the CVTC, they are VERY similar, so that makes it even more possible.

I suggested that as per post #7, since, he did mention skippped teeth, and I am familiar that the 4th gen has been known to do this with similar symptoms whenever the TC is put together incorrectly (skipped tooth)

brusk

iTrader: (1)

If prior work was done it would have been done right as he stated it ran great when he got it. And once again a timing light is going to show the correct timing no matter what as this is controls by the PCM which reads off of the crank sensor, cam position doesn't affect ignition timing anymore. This is a problem that got progressively worse which these things would not be. Again symptoms point to a fuel mixture problem, MAF, intake leak or fuel issues.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

That was my point.

I've pointed this out NUMEROUS times, but for some reason, he really doesn't want to follow that advice.

brusk

iTrader: (1)

sorry NmexMax I thought you were arguing the point about the timing.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I think i got hung up on it for awhile, just because I pretty much forgot about what the thread was originally. Yes, the MAF does seem like a very likely culprit, but the ECM code is puzzling me. And the IVT (CVTC phaser) is said to make the car go into limp mode (slow throttle angle opening and not more than 10%). But, hmmm. I would toss a new MAF in there, or check the specs on the existing unit.

At this point, the suggestions are becoming repetitive.

02SE6MT

what do yall think about this page:



KeVQ35,
" The timing chain tensioner is hydraulic, meaning it automatically tensions the chain with oil pressure. If your oil pressure is low, then chain tension will also be a bit low causing rattle. In very bad cases, the chain can even skip a tooth, causing possible engine damage (valves hitting pistons, not good). So if with the thicker oil, your chain still rattles, then you may need a new chain tensioner. But as you can see from this thread, the same noise can come from many different things for many different reasons, so make sure you do proper diagnostics and process of elimination before just throwing money at new parts. As for synthetic, Castrol Syntec has a 5W40 oil that's readily available in most auto stores. Otherwise, your only other choices are Amsoil 5W40, Redline 5W40 / 10W40, Mobil 1 0W40, etc, and most of those are not available in regular stores...."

the full page has some more info: http://www.nissanclub.com/forums/200...-moving-5.html


and im going to go to the shop and inspect it one last time before i let him open it up to see, but finals are this week, as im still up from yesterday after an all-night-er for a chem final today with another tomorrow and another on friday.thanks for the replys and i will keep everyone updated.

and ill keep in mind the MAF, and my intake components.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I don't think he knows he's talking about, and most importantly, I would appreciate it if you changed the MAF before dissecting the timing equipment.

Again, don't keep them in mind, use one of your more common senses and change the MAF and inspect the intake before spending the 100's on the other job (TC).

02SE6MT

Im sorry i was a little vague on my previous posts, i had never cleared any codes in the car, i thought the MAF went out w/o throwing a code because of the p0650 which i only Recently found after taking it to autozone after this mishap. cleared like 7 codes and an o2 sensor and MIL circuit fault came up, so why not i replaced the o2 sensor, now only the p0650. currentlythe mechanic has the car he has consistently cleared all of the codes, multiple times only to get p0650. Which HE assssumes is the MIL combination meter behind the dash... the MAF i will test: because so many suspicions of a Brand New 2-week old MAF sensor which i put on, and im not , it was an easy install which i confirmed on i cant even count how many different forums with pictures, and talked to Dave "Ballin" Burnette at southpoint whos amazingly fit me into his schedule for me to ask some pretty detailed questions, like the previous MAF diagnosis when the car would cut out at 2.4k, the oreder and install of my new part, and 5 minutes after my car failed in the rain with little oil (1000 miles after an oil chg) and no CEL.

IDK if it will help but i just was lookin at the description of P0650. this is from the service manual but heres what limp mode the car will run in if that light is out, W/ another code. currently my car has no codes Except for p0650 so isnt in the limp/safe mode.

but seriously thanks you guys who responded and to anyone who does, i appreciate it.

02SE6MT

Plus, how would the MAF change the sound of the car. physically change the volume and sound of the engine under a load. i would not rule out the MAF sensor it could be doin somethin crazy, but there are specs for the MAF that if the engine didnt get would hop into limp mode

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

You have an MIL circuit fault. Checking the MAF is just another option. It's easy to 'spec' out, and is less complicated than the MIl code.

02SE6MT

In order to fix this problem do you guys think its probably the meter assembly requiring me to replace the speedo/rpm gauge assembly. or do you think its a short before the assembly. is it likely that the Gauges have an internal short?

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

Don't you have your car at a shop? Why aren't they figuring out what is wrong with it?

brusk

iTrader: (1)

I'm confused why are you troubleshooting the gauges? This problem should have nothing to do with that. I thought we already determined that your problem is most likely a mixture problem due to MAF, Fuel delivery, an Intake air leak or possibly ignition issue. Plus if the cars in the shop any competant mechanic should know the basic troubleshootings of this stuff. Seeing how you are getting continuous O2 codes that points to mixture issue.

Does the car idle smooth? is it any smooter or rougher at 1500 RPM.

Have you taken any of the advise here and diagnosed the MAF, used a can
of carb cleaner to see if there are any leaks, checked all the hoses for cracks, tears or if any of them fell off. Check to see if any of the fasteners on the intake manifold or intake piping are loose. Are any of the coil connectors or injector connectors loose. Checked the fuel pressure.

These are all basic things the shop should be doing. Get a new shop.

02SE6MT

well we havent really came to the conclusion of a bad A/F ratio due to the MAF or anything else. theres no smoke from the car and its not throwing any cat codes or anything. NO CODES whatsoever, just p0650. ive had MAF's go out before, but now the sound of the car is horrible. its doubled the volume and everything is hooked up fine, it should be i havent touched anything except for the MAF since i bought it. the mechanic thinks the gauges are causing the "limp home" mode because his scanner says for P0650=limp home thats it. now i think thats a load of crap but since i would like to have a CEL and an oil pressure light just because i do, im gonna go ahead and replace that so the mechanic will shut up about it. i think its the timing as its the only thing i know of that could effect intake volume, ability to rev, power, and could have been caused by lack of oil pressure. and as for smoothness at idle and 1500 rpm, the steering wheel shakes almost unoticeably at idle but revs smooth until around 4-5k where i let off the gas because the engine takes forever to rev and makes some pretty bad noises. i cant really describe the noises because i havent attempted to hold it to the floor for a long period of time. i can just attempt to say it sounds like really bad gas ping, only at the very peak of the engines rpm range after its lost what power it does give. it just starves after 4k ish and hits the peak and starts doing that wierd **** at around 5k.

thanks for the replies

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

If you aren't comfortable with what the shop is telling you, find a new shop.

I know a really good mechanic in Austin who posts on another board. I'll get his information for you if you wish.

02SE6MT

ill take you up on that, i appreciate it.

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

He isn't accepting PMs on the board, I'll look for his aim name and see if I can find him that way. I know a few people in Austin who know him as well.

02SE6MT

No rush, and thank you

phatboislim

iTrader: (27)

any updates?

02SE6MT

not yet, still in the shop and the mechanic is diagnosing the gauges right now to see if in fact they are defective, tho im 99% sure it wont fix the mechanical problems, but at least ill have a CEL and an oil pressure light for next time.

phatboislim

iTrader: (27)

did u change the MAF?