zoutv

Battery or Alternator?

Back-story:

A month ago my car would cold start fine. Then warm starting it would occasionally not start at all. It would go through the motions, all lights on dash would come on and it would try to crank but never could.

Two weeks ago, to solve this problem I got a brand new battery. For the last 4 days or so when I started the car in the morning, it would seem to stagger upon start. A half second lag than normal. On the way home tonight….The Airbag, ABS, and TCS lights come on at the same time while I’m driving. Can’t stop so I keep on going. Get into the city, and stop fine….no signs of any trouble. Then the lights come on (but no battery light).

So I start slowing to a light….then all the lights on the dash go dim…..the engine dies on me. DEAD. I try and start again, the dash lights faintly come on. I can turn on the Emergency lights….but they die to. Got a cabbie to give me a jump. As my engine is running, he disconnects the jumper cables and the car still runs fine.

What FUN!! Drive home without any lights on….begging to get pulled over!

Guys, what does it sound like….bad battery or alternator?? Its been cold the last few days, not sure if that would affect anything?

SoonerFan

iTrader: (5)

bad alternator which isnt charging the battery.
if you had a good alternator, you would be fine once the car is started

AceofSpds

iTrader: (4)

Alternator, Battery, bad connection, or combination.

Test it, dont guess it.

AceofSpds

iTrader: (4)

Ive sceen cases to where the battery was so dead that the alternator was putting out so much to try to keep a charge on the battery and end up just cutting out after a drain (battery tester) on the electrical system.

SoonerFan

iTrader: (5)

his battery is only 2 weeks old

AceofSpds

iTrader: (4)

I still say go bug the guys at the local auto parts store and tell them to test the batt while you are getting the alt. tested.

SilverGLE

iTrader: (21)

If his alt's FUBAR, 4 days of constantly draining would kill any battery...

Like sooner said, test them both at an auto parts store. 99% sure your alt is dead, and since the 4 days of drain on the new one, it's likely dead, as well.

The Law

iTrader: (39)

One way to test it if the alt is bad is by starting the car and unplugging the positive cable to your battery, if the car is still running then that means your alt is good.

Lontar1

iTrader: (5)

could be both... have them tested.....

User 12822

iTrader: (1)

This happened to me. If its the same you don't need an alternator, you need a battery and your contacts are probably a bit corroded.

nismowolfe

iTrader: (11)

sound like your alt. to me like the other guys said I would just take it to autozone advance what ever and have them check it out. I have also had problems before where I had a dead cell in my battery but usually that only affected me when trying to start my car. If the battery cycle stoped on the dead cell then the car wouldnt start.

zoutv

I know it will horrify many here but I'm not really mechanically inclined. Advanced Auto Parts (where I bought the battery) also has a alternator tester. Do I need to take the alternator our of the car?? If thats the case, I'm screwed.

Because I don't know how to take the battery out either... any suggesstions on how I can get the alt or connection tested without going to a mechanic who will just say "Oh yeah, you need $400 worth of work."

As The Law suggested, is it a good test to start car and then remove positive contact on the battery, to see if the car will still run....? Will I get a shock by doing this?

This is gonna be one long weekend.

AceofSpds

iTrader: (4)

Since you arent mechanically inclined i dont reccomend what the law reccomended for you to do.

Connections, meaning just trace wires from the battery and look at the connections they make and see if they have corrosion on them.

The guys at advance have an alternator tester, its that big thing on wheels that does battery testing also unless they got the new tester. You can also check the alt. at home if you have a voltmeter. So yes they can test the alternator while its on the car.

SuperStasiu

iTrader: (3)

Its your alternator they like to go out on the 5th gens
What The Law suggested would be fine you wont get shocked. The alternator is very easy to install yourself you need minimal tools to do it.

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

I just replaced my alternator. I'm pretty mechanically inclined. I wouldn't say it's easy, in fact it's a bit of a pain in the a$$ due to the location of the AC compressor, which has to be unbolted to remove the alty.

SilverGLE

iTrader: (21)

^ That's exactly why I didn't bother when mine died. Had my mechanic do it for me.

zoutv

Guys,

So I got a voltimeter..... Had the car running for about a minute. 20 Degrees F outside. Battery tested a little low. The alternator was charging at about 14.3volts. I had everything in the car off, running @ about 2000rpm. I turned on the headlights, CD player and Heater. After this the alternator current started to drop steadily.

What do you think?

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

How low in voltage did it go?

MCE

Almost 100% alternator. I just changed mine(01). I had same indications as you. Do not try this yourself if you are not mechanically inclined. I agree with the other dude, it is a pain in the the butt. I had to drop AC unit, remove one o2 sensor and replace a seized belt adjuster because it was rusted. BTW, change both belts while your at it.

zoutv

Ok, so I decided to try a few basics first. Tested the battery, which is low in voltage. Then started the car to 2000rpm, turned the headlights on. The alternator voltage started to drop off. I removed the battery and cleaned off the terminals. The positive has a bit of corrosion. On the terminal heads, the negative clamp was good, but the positive had red gunk all over it. I cleaned off both terminals and terminal clamps removing any corrosion. All the time while doing this I notice that the air intake, where it connects to the Air box had become detached. So there was a half inch gap. WTF, closed that back up. Would the car completely die on me like that if it was not feeding air properly into the air box/MAF?

So, I start up. Comes on fine. No struggling. Drive around for about 5 minutes. Start car again and this time after car starts I hear a 'buzzing' sound right behind the dash clock. Its extremely fast and then stops. It has done it each time today after starting the car.


Thoughts / Opinions?

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

o2 sensor? Seriously? That wasn't necessary. I removed my adjuster because it was groaning when it was being turned. Sprayed some WD 40 on the threads and reused it - smooth as butter.

Even if you're mechanically inclined, the PS belt is a HUGE PIA. I know my way around a wrench and that PS tensioner still looks daunting.

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

Red gunk is dielectric grease. It should be there.

Your theory about your intake is 100% wrong. It won't cause any stalling. Sounds like removing the corrosion you had fixed your problem. What is the battery testing at at different rpm's?

zoutv

Well ****, I removed all the dielectric grease then. Thought it shouldn't be there. Now its just shiny metal on the clamps and terminals. Tonight, each successive start of the engine, took fa little longer than the prior time.

I will test the battery/alternator again tomorrow. But, anyone have an idea of what this new 'clicking' sounds is. Never heard it before all of this fun-ness.

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

Does it sound like a motor or solenoid moving? Could be your HVAC system switching modes, between recirc and free air, etc.

AceofSpds

iTrader: (4)

My car makes that noise too, not sure what it is, just thought it was normal.

badassstang

This is not a recommended method on any new style car with a ECU. Old school this was okay. First off make sure your battery has 12.66v vehicle off. This is a fully charged battery. Usually if the car dies after starting it is not the battery. The battery is only used for startup, after that the vehicle runs off the alternator. The battery can however make the car die if voltage gets so low that the alternator cant keep the car above 12v. Some cars will still run as low as 10v. This will kill the battery and make it seem like a battery problem. Your problem seems like an alternator problem. Most likely the voltage regulator, sometimes charges fine, other times not enough.

zoutv

I have done a classic and noble job of avoiding the probable/truth.....as even I know now I will pro need a new alternator. I have a friend who will install it for me, so wondering what would one cos33r from Advanced Auto Parts or Autozone? Remanufactured. Any specific brand to look for?3

Also, since the battery is a bit depleted, I don't want the new alternator to try and over charge the battery...damaging the alternator. I will have to get my car with new alternator/low battery to a place where I can charge the battery. Could I drive for a short distance (10 miles or less?) to get my battery juiced up3 and not harm the alt in the process?

Armon

iTrader: (4)

you could get your battery charged at an auto parts store on your way to getting the alt replaced, or vice versa.

then if the battery dies, you'll know it's dead

SilverGLE

iTrader: (21)

^ If they test his battery and it's too weak to be tested without charging, 99% of the time it's already dead.

I got mine at AutoZone for $135ish, IIRC. That was the cheapest out of them, Advance Auto, and O'Reilley.

mowgli29

iTrader: (21)

EXACT thing happened to me with my old 3rd gen. i was driving down the road and my radio started going on and off. i THOUGHT my lights looked dim! so i pulled over, and my car was barely idling. it finally died. i put my hazards on till the battery died. had to replace the alternator in the morning.

gotcha640

Not to be a ****, but did you check the belt? My old Acura ate 3 belts in 2 years and same symptoms. Max ate a belt in August, same thing. Cheap and easy.

Shady33e

iTrader: (2)

how much total did it/should it cost for a mechanic to replace the alternator..


im going thru the same problem, my car is about 20 miles from here at my friends house and the battery light was on while i was driving so my curious *** went to close all 4 windows at the same time to test my battery while i was driving, and my car just turned off

so tomorow morning i gotta call a mechanic ..

just wanted to know how much i should expect to pay

cefiro80

Friend just got his done for 250 on a 5th gen. Seems pretty cheap but I am not sure if they put in a used. Always I would expect around 250-300 location seems to acffect repair prices.

SilverGLE

iTrader: (21)

^ I paid just under $150, but that was back during the Summer of 2006...

godlyone

well im pretty sure its not your alternator since you were able to drive after hthe jumpo.

I once had my alternator die in manhattan and after roll starting it [manual] it eventually ended up dying right near the entrance to the BQE [after caymmans plaza thingy] (NOT GOOD
)

Anyway.. moral is.. if it was your alt you ewouldnt be able to drive aget the hump

maxatic2k

I know this is an old post but I just had this same problem this past weekend ("...On the way home tonight….The Airbag, ABS, and TCS lights come on at the same time while I’m driving. Can’t stop so I keep on going. Get into the city, and stop fine….no signs of any trouble. Then the lights come on (but no battery light).

So I start slowing to a light….then all the lights on the dash go dim…..the engine dies on me. DEAD. I try and start again, the dash lights faintly come on. I can turn on the Emergency lights….but they die to. Got a cabbie to give me a jump. As my engine is running, he disconnects the jumper cables and the car still runs fine...."

Had the alternator replaced (battery still fairly new). Mechanic says I need to have my electrical system checked because something is draining my battery and it's working my alternator too hard to charge it back up (burned out the regulator). So meanwhile, I'm taking off the negative post so that I don't have trouble starting my car.

Anyone have any ideas? Will paying for a diagnostic test give me a definite answer? I'm a newbie but I've searched the threads and couldn't anything that could be the source of this issue. I'm not running anything out of the ordinary that should put any strain on the electrical system (no mods, original sound system, etc.). I saw that someone said that 5th gen Max typically have altenator problems. Should I chalk it up that it's just that simple? This is the 2nd one I've put on (2k GLE, 124kmi). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

dustey

iTrader: (1)

Well, I dont have a definitive answer, but I do know that alternators aren't always good straight out of the box... maybe you got a bad one? 99% of alternators you buy are remanufactured. I replaced the alternator in my old Mitsubishi Eclipse. A month later, I was getting some dash lights so I replaced it again, and it was good to go.

Just an idea...

Max_5gen

iTrader: (2)

No, they don't - that someone is full of it. Buy yourself a voltmeter and do few simple tests:

1. Check/clean battery posts and make sure they're tight then measure battery voltages:

2. Engine stopped for a while (>1hr): 12.6V.

3. Engine starting (with fuel pump fuse temporarily removed): drop to no less than 10.5V. Do not keep cranking longer than 15 sec. Put fuel pump fuse back.

4. Engine running idle at 1.5k rpm 14.1V-14.4V

Report your voltages here in each of the above tests so we could be of more help.

asenevey

Ditto, I got 126K on mine with no issues.

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

I wouldn't get anything from junkozone. They use the absolute crappiest rebuilds (if rebuilt at all) and sell used parts as new. Getting anything electrical or pump related from them is asking for a replacement within a few months. Oreilly and Advance are cool. That's how it is here in the midwest (STL area), anyway. Talk to anyone that does car repairs and they'll get all pissed off if you mention getting anything from autozone lol. I don't even know how they compete.