I'm thinking my engine is toast......
05-23-2008, 10:47 AM
#1
I'm thinking my engine is toast......
Went to get the oil changed today and ended up with way more than I paid for. While the techs were changing the oil, one triggered the alarm, panicked, began randomly pushing buttons on the remote and triggered the remote start while the pan was dropped..............
The manager pulled the positive lead on the battery within 5 seconds, or so he says.
The car runs as if nothing happened, but from experience I know that bearing wear is difficult to diagnose. The only two audible symptoms I know of are crankwalk and rod knock, neither of which I have. The fact that bearing damage occurred is undeniable, but just how much is what I'm worried about. I had originally planned on driving my 03 until it fell apart, which I assumed would be well after I graduate (I'm 20 will be a junior in the fall) but now I'm not confident the car will make it. I've got 90100 miles on the clock and I would love to get an idea of how much life the engine has left. Getting the engine disassembled and tolerances checked is not an option but, I was thinking of getting the oil tested. Would high metal concentration be able to provide some estimate on engine life? Since the oil just got changed, should I wait a little before sending a sample in?
Thanks.
The manager pulled the positive lead on the battery within 5 seconds, or so he says.
The car runs as if nothing happened, but from experience I know that bearing wear is difficult to diagnose. The only two audible symptoms I know of are crankwalk and rod knock, neither of which I have. The fact that bearing damage occurred is undeniable, but just how much is what I'm worried about. I had originally planned on driving my 03 until it fell apart, which I assumed would be well after I graduate (I'm 20 will be a junior in the fall) but now I'm not confident the car will make it. I've got 90100 miles on the clock and I would love to get an idea of how much life the engine has left. Getting the engine disassembled and tolerances checked is not an option but, I was thinking of getting the oil tested. Would high metal concentration be able to provide some estimate on engine life? Since the oil just got changed, should I wait a little before sending a sample in?
Thanks.
05-23-2008, 10:52 AM
#2
Went to get the oil changed today and ended up with way more than I paid for. While the techs were changing the oil, one triggered the alarm, panicked, began randomly pushing buttons on the remote and triggered the remote start while the pan was dropped..............
The manager pulled the positive lead on the battery within 5 seconds, or so he says.
The car runs as if nothing happened, but from experience I know that bearing wear is difficult to diagnose. The only two audible symptoms I know of are crankwalk and rod knock, neither of which I have. The fact that bearing damage occurred is undeniable, but just how much is what I'm worried about. I had originally planned on driving my 03 until it fell apart, which I assumed would be well after I graduate (I'm 20 will be a junior in the fall) but now I'm not confident the car will make it. I've got 90100 miles on the clock and I would love to get an idea of how much life the engine has left. Getting the engine disassembled and tolerances checked is not an option but, I was thinking of getting the oil tested. Would high metal concentration be able to provide some estimate on engine life? Since the oil just got changed, should I wait a little before sending a sample in?
Thanks.
The manager pulled the positive lead on the battery within 5 seconds, or so he says.
The car runs as if nothing happened, but from experience I know that bearing wear is difficult to diagnose. The only two audible symptoms I know of are crankwalk and rod knock, neither of which I have. The fact that bearing damage occurred is undeniable, but just how much is what I'm worried about. I had originally planned on driving my 03 until it fell apart, which I assumed would be well after I graduate (I'm 20 will be a junior in the fall) but now I'm not confident the car will make it. I've got 90100 miles on the clock and I would love to get an idea of how much life the engine has left. Getting the engine disassembled and tolerances checked is not an option but, I was thinking of getting the oil tested. Would high metal concentration be able to provide some estimate on engine life? Since the oil just got changed, should I wait a little before sending a sample in?
Thanks.
05-23-2008, 10:58 AM
#3
This all would have been avoided if I had remembered to disable the damn remote start and the alarm.........................
Edit: I seriously doubt any engine would last for a minute with 0 oil pressure.
Last edited by Whitebread; 05-23-2008 at 11:08 AM.
05-23-2008, 11:27 AM
#4
Ok quick question. Even though you pull the terminals off of the battery wouldn't the engine keep running?? Isn't that what the alternator is for?? If that is the case, why would you pull the terminals?? Hopefully all goes well for you though. G/L. Take them to court if you have too. I don't trust him if he told you 5 min. and he wrote 10. Something isn't right.
05-23-2008, 11:41 AM
#5
Pulling the battery lead kills spark and fuel injection. The only think keeping the engine spinning is inertia. Friction and pumping loads make quick work of the momentum of the reciprocating mass in the engine. Its the same as turning the engine off using the ignition.
05-23-2008, 12:08 PM
#7
I think your overreacting, the motor is fine. If it had run a minute or 3 yes you could have some major damage Hell a motor doesn't get fully oiled until 45seconds to one minute after cold start. If you want restitution have them eat 2-3 more oil changes at another shop.
05-23-2008, 12:19 PM
#9
pulling the battery terminal of while running will NOT kill the engine, as mentioned above, the alternator will supply enough juice to keep it running. if he (the tech) ran the motor for 5-10 seconds without oil, you shouldn't have too much problems but if he ran for a considirably more than that, I can see a whole bunch of problems for you in the future. just keep on eye on it and if you see/hear problems, bring it to a trusted mechanic for a diagnosis and if need be, get another motor in by the oil change shop (out of their pocket).
also, 90k miles is nothing for this motor, if you keep up the maintanance, it should be good for another 100k miles.
also, 90k miles is nothing for this motor, if you keep up the maintanance, it should be good for another 100k miles.
05-23-2008, 12:31 PM
#10
at pulling positive battery cable to kill the car. If your alternator is working properly then it will not stop.The only way you can really build a case is if you have had your oil tested previously. Then you can get another oil analysis by sampling at your next oil change interval and compare the results.
Without that you don't have much of a leg to stand on...
05-23-2008, 01:06 PM
#11
at pulling positive battery cable to kill the car. If your alternator is working properly then it will not stop.The only way you can really build a case is if you have had your oil tested previously. Then you can get another oil analysis by sampling at your next oil change interval and compare the results.
Without that you don't have much of a leg to stand on...
I don't plan on taking legal action unless something actually goes wrong. I just wanted to know if an oil analysis could give some insight into engine life.
05-23-2008, 01:07 PM
#12
well technically if you have the hood pin connected (if installed correctly) when he opened the hood while the remote start was on to disconnect the battery. it would auto shut down the engine the second the hood is popped and the pin it released. 
05-23-2008, 01:21 PM
#14
I'm going to call the guy now and ask him if he really did pull the battery lead.
05-23-2008, 01:22 PM
#15
Eh, its a possibility but I think the hood was already up because they had already drained the oil.
05-23-2008, 01:23 PM
#16
05-23-2008, 01:35 PM
#17
The manager said that while he was trying to pull the battery lead, another tech was attempting to kill the engine with the key (he didn't tell me this when I was at the shop). When using the remote start with my vehicle, there are only 2 ways to turn the engine off. One way is to push the starter button on the FOB twice and the second way is to push the break pedal before turning the key to the on position. My guess is the second tech who jumped in the driver seat pushed the brake while trying to insert the key into the ignition. Such a situation is entirely plausible. And could easily occur within the 5 second time frame the manager claims this happened in.
05-23-2008, 01:42 PM
#18
This is true....it is an integral safety part of a remote start system. Either your hood pin wiring is fubared or the oil change place is making **** up. My vote is for the latter...but you can always check your wiring for the hood pin and remote start. You will see some stray wire running into one of your front hood pins, most likely the one on the driver's side.
05-23-2008, 01:52 PM
#20
05-23-2008, 01:57 PM
#22
This is true....it is an integral safety part of a remote start system. Either your hood pin wiring is fubared or the oil change place is making **** up. My vote is for the latter...but you can always check your wiring for the hood pin and remote start. You will see some stray wire running into one of your front hood pins, most likely the one on the driver's side.
Because the techs did not know how to use the FOB, I doubt they were able to use it to kill the car. The only remaining possibility is the brake pedal. Therefore, there are two possible outcomes to this situation. The first is that they were unable to push the break pedal and the engine grinds itself to a halt. The second is that they push the pedal most likely accidentally, and the engine quits. The engine runs for a few seconds without oil.
This couldn't have been done on purpose and my engine block and crank shaft are not fused into one. I think the manager is telling the truth. 5 seconds is more than enough time to move 4 feet, open the door and push the brake pedal. And thank God he did.............
05-23-2008, 02:01 PM
#23
I know for fact that the engine will start remotely with the hood up and I can pop the hood with the car started remotely (key not in the ignition). This is something I'll have to address.
05-23-2008, 02:20 PM
#25
I think your overreacting, the motor is fine. If it had run a minute or 3 yes you could have some major damage Hell a motor doesn't get fully oiled until 45seconds to one minute after cold start. If you want restitution have them eat 2-3 more oil changes at another shop.
05-23-2008, 03:57 PM
#26
If it really was only 5-10 seconds, there probably isn't any appreciable damage. However, if it was closer to a minute (which is entirely possible), then there could be problems down the road. No knocking is a good sign, however.
05-23-2008, 04:50 PM
#28
Used Oil Analysis.
I think otherwise 
On this specific vehicle, true. Different vehicles behave different ways when removing the battery terminals, though. Some die, some won't.
That being said, that's how I used to jump start my '87 Maxima - put the battery in it from my '95, then switched them out again once it was running. In hindsight, a set of jumper cables would've helped back then...
If the hood pin is released period, a correctly installed remote start will not activate.
That is, 'correctly installed' per the manufacturer's directions. I for one didn't hook it up on my car, or on Merlyn's A33B (remote start is a useful tool for diagnosis of various problems, and very convenient during other diagnoses as well). If you're not an idiot, all problems can be avoided (kill switch enabled when doing things like this, for example).
It doesn't matter that it didn't transition while the alarm wasn't enabled, or while it tried to remote start; cases like this are exactly the type of thing they're trying to prevent by having a hood pin switch disable on remote starts.
On this specific vehicle, true. Different vehicles behave different ways when removing the battery terminals, though. Some die, some won't.That being said, that's how I used to jump start my '87 Maxima - put the battery in it from my '95, then switched them out again once it was running. In hindsight, a set of jumper cables would've helped back then...
I really don't think the hood pin played a part in all this. One of the first things a tech would do during an oil change is pop the hood. This alone is not enough to trigger my alarm. Furthermore, the hood was probably popped before my alarm system rearmed itself (I believe this takes 30-45 seconds after the ignition is killed). The whole reason this happened is because one of the techs got spooked by the alarm and started pushing buttons. Therefore, if my assumption above is correct there is no way the hood pin could have killed the engine.
That is, 'correctly installed' per the manufacturer's directions. I for one didn't hook it up on my car, or on Merlyn's A33B (remote start is a useful tool for diagnosis of various problems, and very convenient during other diagnoses as well). If you're not an idiot, all problems can be avoided (kill switch enabled when doing things like this, for example).
It doesn't matter that it didn't transition while the alarm wasn't enabled, or while it tried to remote start; cases like this are exactly the type of thing they're trying to prevent by having a hood pin switch disable on remote starts.
05-23-2008, 05:08 PM
#31
Another reason to do your own oil changes...
Hope it all works out. I tend to agree that if it's running fine now there's not reason to worry that it will fail in the coming future. +1 that a running car will keep running without the battery, unplugging the battery while running is a time-honored way to test the alternator.
Hope it all works out. I tend to agree that if it's running fine now there's not reason to worry that it will fail in the coming future. +1 that a running car will keep running without the battery, unplugging the battery while running is a time-honored way to test the alternator.
05-23-2008, 05:49 PM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N.E. PHILLY
Posts: 378
the car shouldn't have STARTED in the first place, with a remote start its not suppose to start with the hood, its a safety they have in the design of the alarm. i KNOW mine doesnt start with my hood open.
05-23-2008, 05:51 PM
#38
05-23-2008, 06:07 PM
#39
Already ordered the test kit
Yes, this has already been established. Like I said earlier, my remote start WILL start my vehicle with the hood open and I CANNOT kill the motor by poping the hood with the key NOT in the ignition. Either the system was incorrectly installed or the hood pin is not working as it should. Another thing I'll have to add to the fix-it list. The car does have a kill switch, but I forgot to disable the system this one time.
If the hood pin is released period, a correctly installed remote start will not activate.
That is, 'correctly installed' per the manufacturer's directions. I for one didn't hook it up on my car, or on Merlyn's A33B (remote start is a useful tool for diagnosis of various problems, and very convenient during other diagnoses as well). If you're not an idiot, all problems can be avoided (kill switch enabled when doing things like this, for example).
It doesn't matter that it didn't transition while the alarm wasn't enabled, or while it tried to remote start; cases like this are exactly the type of thing they're trying to prevent by having a hood pin switch disable on remote starts.
That is, 'correctly installed' per the manufacturer's directions. I for one didn't hook it up on my car, or on Merlyn's A33B (remote start is a useful tool for diagnosis of various problems, and very convenient during other diagnoses as well). If you're not an idiot, all problems can be avoided (kill switch enabled when doing things like this, for example).
It doesn't matter that it didn't transition while the alarm wasn't enabled, or while it tried to remote start; cases like this are exactly the type of thing they're trying to prevent by having a hood pin switch disable on remote starts.
05-23-2008, 06:09 PM
#40
