Fabricated Wheel Spacers??
07-06-2008, 02:21 PM
#1
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Fabricated Wheel Spacers??
These wheel spacers being sold are over-priced and I am wondering if anyone has made their own or has blueprints for the ones that H&R or Eibach sell???
It seems that they wouldn't be very hard to machine on a mill and no one wants to pay $100+ for something that seems so simple.
Just curious, any valuable input would be great!
It seems that they wouldn't be very hard to machine on a mill and no one wants to pay $100+ for something that seems so simple.
Just curious, any valuable input would be great!
07-06-2008, 05:14 PM
#2
I remember reading this thread:
http://forums.maxima.org/general-max...l-spacers.html
He fabricated his own out of some rotors...but it sounds like a bit of a PITA.
http://forums.maxima.org/general-max...l-spacers.html
He fabricated his own out of some rotors...but it sounds like a bit of a PITA.
07-07-2008, 09:52 AM
#4
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i drew up a nice set of 15mm spacers on solidworks a while back. never got around to getting them made, but in reality it would be really easy for a machine shop to make them. i know it wouldnt take me more than 15-20 minutes to make them from a 15mm billet. however, having somebody make something like that for you might cost more than you would expect
07-07-2008, 12:16 PM
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I just made a bunch of measurements of the hub and the stud diameter, set it up using the 5X114.3 bolt pattern and extruded to 15mm thick. it was really easy. most important thing is to allow enough play to have it always fit and little enough play that it will stay balanced on the hub and studs. maybe i will post up a picture later once im home of the 3d model and other measurements you can use as a guideline
07-07-2008, 12:32 PM
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really any metal that wont deform under ~400F and 150lbs compressive should be fine. the demands on a spacer really arent significant beyond that since they dont transfer any rotational power or really have any force on them. almost all of the force is carried on the studs, so must any billet aluminum would be safe. as long as its good quality and better stress handling than the wheel material it will be fine. 6061-0 is easy to get your hands on and would be fine, but you could get a 6061-t4 to be safe. theyre pretty common and not really expensive. a 5086 (what they use for small boats) would also work fine
07-07-2008, 02:06 PM
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I just made a bunch of measurements of the hub and the stud diameter, set it up using the 5X114.3 bolt pattern and extruded to 15mm thick. it was really easy. most important thing is to allow enough play to have it always fit and little enough play that it will stay balanced on the hub and studs. maybe i will post up a picture later once im home of the 3d model and other measurements you can use as a guideline
I've got some machining experience, and some connections that I'm sure we could work something out. It seems that everyone is going with 20mm for the rears though on their 5th gen.
.
07-07-2008, 02:13 PM
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yeah, its overpriced, but they really are the only ones offering it so...supply and demand.
as far as 20mm goes, it depends on how flush you want it and what your wheel design is. it will be different for just about every wheel. once you draw up the face its easy to change the depth of the design to whatever you think is right. shoot, you could probly photoshop different sizes if you knew what you were doing (not me)
as far as 20mm goes, it depends on how flush you want it and what your wheel design is. it will be different for just about every wheel. once you draw up the face its easy to change the depth of the design to whatever you think is right. shoot, you could probly photoshop different sizes if you knew what you were doing (not me)
07-07-2008, 02:20 PM
#13
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I never used photoshop. Solidworks is used most in my industry and im becoming more familiar with it and using different features on the program.
Back to topic.. what is exactly meant by hubcentric??
And yes studs are included... but still studs can be bought fairly cheap I would assume. They are a 12X1.25 thread according to "a website".
Back to topic.. what is exactly meant by hubcentric??
And yes studs are included... but still studs can be bought fairly cheap I would assume. They are a 12X1.25 thread according to "a website".
07-07-2008, 03:07 PM
#14
It depends on a few items, and most particular offset, width & design. Appropriate stud length are also important with respect to spacer thickness.
Hubcentric essentially means that the center of the hub fits snugly on the hub, the H&R spacers do just that.
07-08-2008, 05:45 AM
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Do you have wheels spacers NmeMAX??
A billet aluminum would be a good material and studs come in a variety of lengths so that shouldnt be too difficult, correct??
07-08-2008, 06:01 AM
#16
Yes, you're correct.
I do have H&R spacers, but I bought them about a year ago with some extra money lying around. But yes, I too think they're overpriced. Hopefully, you fellas can get some quality units at a fair price.
I do have H&R spacers, but I bought them about a year ago with some extra money lying around. But yes, I too think they're overpriced. Hopefully, you fellas can get some quality units at a fair price.
07-08-2008, 06:28 AM
#17
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I am really hoping to get something made.. either here at work during summer or in the machining dept. once i get back to college.
Any input and ideas are welcome!
07-08-2008, 06:41 AM
#18
really any metal that wont deform under ~400F and 150lbs compressive should be fine. the demands on a spacer really arent significant beyond that since they dont transfer any rotational power or really have any force on them. almost all of the force is carried on the studs, so must any billet aluminum would be safe. as long as its good quality and better stress handling than the wheel material it will be fine. 6061-0 is easy to get your hands on and would be fine, but you could get a 6061-t4 to be safe. theyre pretty common and not really expensive. a 5086 (what they use for small boats) would also work fine
Aluminum should work fine as long as the rotor hat doesnt get too hot. And I don't think any of us drive our cars THAT hard.
Last edited by Whitebread; 07-08-2008 at 06:43 AM.
07-08-2008, 11:39 AM
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i drew up a nice set of 15mm spacers on solidworks a while back. never got around to getting them made, but in reality it would be really easy for a machine shop to make them. i know it wouldnt take me more than 15-20 minutes to make them from a 15mm billet. however, having somebody make something like that for you might cost more than you would expect
07-08-2008, 12:03 PM
#21
I have access to a CNC at work...let me know if you have that solidworks file and i might be able to make a program with it. What material would be cheapest and lightest to use yet still strong enough? Aluminum shouldnt run more than 40 dollars for a 2 x 4...depending on thickness.
07-08-2008, 01:06 PM
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Correct!
I've got a mill in the room this computer is in.. and the file can be transferred to MasterCam.
I'm currently educating myself on the different grades/tempers of aluminum.
I think the best approach would be to buy the aluminum in the correct diameter (undetermined thickness) and slice it into the appropriate thickness before milling, that way, minimizing scrap.
I've got a mill in the room this computer is in.. and the file can be transferred to MasterCam.
I'm currently educating myself on the different grades/tempers of aluminum.
I think the best approach would be to buy the aluminum in the correct diameter (undetermined thickness) and slice it into the appropriate thickness before milling, that way, minimizing scrap.
07-08-2008, 01:21 PM
#24
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yeah, i think thats the best approach. IIRC, the diameter needs to be 6 or 6.5, because the bolt spacing is 4.5, I think about 5.5 to the outside of the lugs and a little extra to keep some thickness outside the bolt holes. ill try and get it as soon as i get home from work
07-08-2008, 01:32 PM
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Whats IIRC and what benefits becoming an .org sponsor???
I'm outa here for the day so I'll get that file from you tomorrow.. and hopefully find pricing on round stock once we can determine specific material.
07-08-2008, 01:59 PM
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well, ive been looking around and ive found that 6061-T4 seems to be what companies are using to construct spacers. ive also found a site that sells it for a reasonable price (if you buy 4 feet it works out to just $9.xx/spacer for 60 spacers) i dont know what kind of access you have to that mill, but if you posted a gauging interest thread and got a bunch of people signed up, which should be easy really if you sold them at a reasonable price, you could get a big piece and make some money
07-08-2008, 07:16 PM
#28
Correct!
I've got a mill in the room this computer is in.. and the file can be transferred to MasterCam.
I'm currently educating myself on the different grades/tempers of aluminum.
I think the best approach would be to buy the aluminum in the correct diameter (undetermined thickness) and slice it into the appropriate thickness before milling, that way, minimizing scrap.
I've got a mill in the room this computer is in.. and the file can be transferred to MasterCam.
I'm currently educating myself on the different grades/tempers of aluminum.
I think the best approach would be to buy the aluminum in the correct diameter (undetermined thickness) and slice it into the appropriate thickness before milling, that way, minimizing scrap.
When you are choosing the aluminum grade, try to get something that reacts well to heat cycling, especially if you get something that is tempered.
07-09-2008, 07:41 AM
#29
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well, ive been looking around and ive found that 6061-T4 seems to be what companies are using to construct spacers. ive also found a site that sells it for a reasonable price (if you buy 4 feet it works out to just $9.xx/spacer for 60 spacers) i dont know what kind of access you have to that mill, but if you posted a gauging interest thread and got a bunch of people signed up, which should be easy really if you sold them at a reasonable price, you could get a big piece and make some money
How did you make out with retrieving that file?
Heat cycling why? These will not be seeing high temperatures or anything. And the T4 temper means it is solution heat-treated and naturally aged to a substantially stable condition.
Last edited by '02_EMILBUS; 07-09-2008 at 07:45 AM.
07-09-2008, 08:30 AM
#30
Yes the 6061-T4 seems to be a common, dependable material. 4 ft-holy ****! lol That must be over $500 for the price/unit you calculated. And Each 20mm spacer will require more than 20mm of material thickness due to the raised center section. YOu say 6in dia. or 6.5 dia. to be safe?
How did you make out with retrieving that file?
Most companies with SolidWorks contracts probably get the newest/latest version so they will be using '08.
Heat cycling why? These will not be seeing high temperatures or anything. And the T4 temper means it is solution heat-treated and naturally aged to a substantially stable condition.
How did you make out with retrieving that file?
Most companies with SolidWorks contracts probably get the newest/latest version so they will be using '08.
Heat cycling why? These will not be seeing high temperatures or anything. And the T4 temper means it is solution heat-treated and naturally aged to a substantially stable condition.
Also, the reason I'm saying the lack of compadability between 07 and 08 versions is because I own the 07 version and can't afford to upgrade every year.
07-09-2008, 09:35 AM
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Because I'm just trying to stay on the safe side. Most likely the spacers won't get hot enough to affect the heat treatment but it could happen if someone decides to go track their car. Under such conditions, the hat and the spacer could get pretty hot.
Also, the reason I'm saying the lack of compadability between 07 and 08 versions is because I own the 07 version and can't afford to upgrade every year.
Also, the reason I'm saying the lack of compadability between 07 and 08 versions is because I own the 07 version and can't afford to upgrade every year.
And I understand your SolidWorks gripe.. its very expensive to buy and they should make them compatible from year to year for everyones sake.
07-09-2008, 09:51 AM
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theyre only backwards compatible. its like a playstation, the new ones play the old games, but the old ones dont play the new. just think about it though. if they were always old version compatible they wouldnt be able to have the new features that they have. besides, im pretty sure you can backwards save it. you might lose some features but at least youd still have the main.
No i didnt get it yet, gotta plug the computer in still lol. but i did take some more measurements so i can double check my drawing
No i didnt get it yet, gotta plug the computer in still lol. but i did take some more measurements so i can double check my drawing
07-10-2008, 04:39 AM
#35
About the aluminum. Tempered engineering materials (aluminum, steel, titanium, magnesium, etc) begin to soften as they are heated. The actual temperature where this occurs is for four thousand series aluminum is unknown to me and I'm too lazy to look it up. Also, the constant heating and cooling of the material may warp it, especially if the lugs are not torqued uniformly. Just something to thing about.
07-10-2008, 09:29 AM
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NOTE: I will not be held accountable/liable for problems that may occur or misuse of the product.
I still need that file, and possibly the place where you priced that 6061-T4. I'm going to check through where we get our aluminum stock at work as well.
About the aluminum. Tempered engineering materials (aluminum, steel, titanium, magnesium, etc) begin to soften as they are heated. The actual temperature where this occurs is for four thousand series aluminum is unknown to me and I'm too lazy to look it up. Also, the constant heating and cooling of the material may warp it, especially if the lugs are not torqued uniformly. Just something to thinK about.
1, indicating an aluminum of 99.0% or greater purity (1060)
2, copper (2011)
3, manganese (3003)
4, silicon 4032)
5, magnesuim (5005)
6, magnesuim and silicon (6061)
7, zinc (7075)
8, some other element than those aforementioned (8176)
9, unassigned presently
If the second digit in the ID is zero, it indicates that there is no special control on individual impurities; while integers 1-9 indicate special control n one or more individual impurities
I hope this didn't get too confusing, just trying to provide some insight.
The Machinist's Handbook is always your friend.
I don't think that they will be seeing that great of temperatures or heat cycling and if you don't have your lugnuts torqued evenly, that would be your own fault.
I believe the 6061-T4, as mentioned, will be a sufficient material.
Any other input, ideas are welcome.
07-10-2008, 12:19 PM
#37
NOT a problem! I wouldn't do you wrong like that! And i'm not trying to make money or anything; Just don't want to pay $120+ for wheel spacers. I figured a few of us could do what needs done to fabricate our own that work just as well.
NOTE: I will not be held accountable/liable for problems that may occur or misuse of the product.
I still need that file, and possibly the place where you priced that 6061-T4. I'm going to check through where we get our aluminum stock at work as well.
OK! The "series" number as you call it (which I take to be the first number in the 4 digit ID) identifies the alloy type:
1, indicating an aluminum of 99.0% or greater purity (1060)
2, copper (2011)
3, manganese (3003)
4, silicon 4032)
5, magnesuim (5005)
6, magnesuim and silicon (6061)
7, zinc (7075)
8, some other element than those aforementioned (8176)
9, unassigned presently
If the second digit in the ID is zero, it indicates that there is no special control on individual impurities; while integers 1-9 indicate special control n one or more individual impurities
I hope this didn't get too confusing, just trying to provide some insight.
The Machinist's Handbook is always your friend.
I don't think that they will be seeing that great of temperatures or heat cycling and if you don't have your lugnuts torqued evenly, that would be your own fault.
I believe the 6061-T4, as mentioned, will be a sufficient material.
Any other input, ideas are welcome.
NOTE: I will not be held accountable/liable for problems that may occur or misuse of the product.
I still need that file, and possibly the place where you priced that 6061-T4. I'm going to check through where we get our aluminum stock at work as well.
OK! The "series" number as you call it (which I take to be the first number in the 4 digit ID) identifies the alloy type:
1, indicating an aluminum of 99.0% or greater purity (1060)
2, copper (2011)
3, manganese (3003)
4, silicon 4032)
5, magnesuim (5005)
6, magnesuim and silicon (6061)
7, zinc (7075)
8, some other element than those aforementioned (8176)
9, unassigned presently
If the second digit in the ID is zero, it indicates that there is no special control on individual impurities; while integers 1-9 indicate special control n one or more individual impurities
I hope this didn't get too confusing, just trying to provide some insight.
The Machinist's Handbook is always your friend.
I don't think that they will be seeing that great of temperatures or heat cycling and if you don't have your lugnuts torqued evenly, that would be your own fault.
I believe the 6061-T4, as mentioned, will be a sufficient material.
Any other input, ideas are welcome.
Have you tried using a program called CES edupak? Its an electronic catalog with a few thousand engineering materials (both ferrous and non ferrous metals, composits, polymers, ceramics and other substances). Mechanical, electrical, chemical, physical and environmental properties and well as alloying materials are easily available. You can also compare as many materials as you want on graphs and tables. Fantastic resource when picking a material for a design job. TONS of good information.
6061-T4 is good stuff. I concur with your assesment. I think I'll be buying some once school starts again and will whip up some spacers of my own.
07-10-2008, 12:29 PM
#38
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Didn't know that. But then again, never really had a need to know what exactly each series was alloyed with.
Have you tried using a program called CES edupak? Its an electronic catalog with a few thousand engineering materials (both ferrous and non ferrous metals, composits, polymers, ceramics and other substances). Mechanical, electrical, chemical, physical and environmental properties and well as alloying materials are easily available. You can also compare as many materials as you want on graphs and tables. Fantastic resource when picking a material for a design job. TONS of good information.
6061-T4 is good stuff. I concur with your assesment. I think I'll be buying some once school starts again and will whip up some spacers of my own.
Have you tried using a program called CES edupak? Its an electronic catalog with a few thousand engineering materials (both ferrous and non ferrous metals, composits, polymers, ceramics and other substances). Mechanical, electrical, chemical, physical and environmental properties and well as alloying materials are easily available. You can also compare as many materials as you want on graphs and tables. Fantastic resource when picking a material for a design job. TONS of good information.
6061-T4 is good stuff. I concur with your assesment. I think I'll be buying some once school starts again and will whip up some spacers of my own.
I never had a need to know each of the alloys either until I started this thread, then I started reading and educating myself on it.
If this all goes over well, I will be able to make a few sets of wheel spacers that will be available while supplies last. The # of pairs available will depend on the amount of material I get.
07-10-2008, 05:59 PM
#39
Kool, never heard of that program. Are you in engineering or something like that?
I never had a need to know each of the alloys either until I started this thread, then I started reading and educating myself on it.
If this all goes over well, I will be able to make a few sets of wheel spacers that will be available while supplies last. The # of pairs available will depend on the amount of material I get.
I never had a need to know each of the alloys either until I started this thread, then I started reading and educating myself on it.
If this all goes over well, I will be able to make a few sets of wheel spacers that will be available while supplies last. The # of pairs available will depend on the amount of material I get.
Where are you getting your aluminum from?
07-10-2008, 06:05 PM
#40
