Swirl Control system
07-12-2009, 04:08 PM
#1
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Swirl Control system
Does anybody have any experience with the Swirl Control system behaving poorly without illuminating the MIL? My car is a 20AE equipped with a 5 speed manual transmission.
More specifically, I am noticing a significant loss of power under WOT as the engine hits variously between 3400-ish and 3900-ish rpm. Sometimes this power loss is worse than at other times. The linkage from the swirl control vacuum actuator (diaphragm) did not appear to be moving when the engine was revved through that rpm band when I did a visual examination earlier today.
The VIAS system appears to be functioning properly (its actuator rod very clearly and visibly moves as you kick the rpms through 5000-ish rpm).
I don't think my Actron 9145 scan tool would recognize either of the swirl control codes (P1130 and P1165) even if they were present.
What is the most likely cause?
Norm
More specifically, I am noticing a significant loss of power under WOT as the engine hits variously between 3400-ish and 3900-ish rpm. Sometimes this power loss is worse than at other times. The linkage from the swirl control vacuum actuator (diaphragm) did not appear to be moving when the engine was revved through that rpm band when I did a visual examination earlier today.
The VIAS system appears to be functioning properly (its actuator rod very clearly and visibly moves as you kick the rpms through 5000-ish rpm).
I don't think my Actron 9145 scan tool would recognize either of the swirl control codes (P1130 and P1165) even if they were present.
What is the most likely cause?
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 07-12-2009 at 04:13 PM.
07-12-2009, 06:21 PM
#2
Why would your reader not pull those codes?
Have you tried disabling the swirl valve actuator, see if that helps? It should default to open, though you could just ziptie it.
And just because the actuator rod for the VIAS moves, does not in any way mean that the power rod is moving. Have you ever done the VIAS fix?
Have you tried disabling the swirl valve actuator, see if that helps? It should default to open, though you could just ziptie it.
And just because the actuator rod for the VIAS moves, does not in any way mean that the power rod is moving. Have you ever done the VIAS fix?
07-13-2009, 05:25 AM
#3
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I don't think the Actrons recognize mfr-specific codes, which I think P1xxx codes are (P1130 means something different on a Ford, for instance).
Things I'm going to try include checking the swirl valve actuator line for vacuum (still have an old vacuum gauge from carburetor days) and trying to apply vacuum to the swirl valve actuator (I may need a Mityvac or similar). I do have a print-out of the applicable FSM pages.
I was unaware that there was any problems with the VIAS, let alone that there was any sort of "fix" for it. The rpm range where the power goes "soft" seems to be much more closely associated with the point where swirl valve operation occurs. Power does not seem to go "soft" again at 5000-ish.
The car is primarily my wife's DD and long-distance trip car for three or more, and it does not see any sort of competition. IOW, requests for rpms in excess of 5000 haven't been all that common, so I would not suspect there to be much physical wear in the VIAS components. Under the present situation, it's frustrating to even run it up to 4000.
Since you've got my curiosity going, what are the VIAS cup and shaft made out of, and how thick is the metal that the cup is made out of?
Norm
Things I'm going to try include checking the swirl valve actuator line for vacuum (still have an old vacuum gauge from carburetor days) and trying to apply vacuum to the swirl valve actuator (I may need a Mityvac or similar). I do have a print-out of the applicable FSM pages.
I was unaware that there was any problems with the VIAS, let alone that there was any sort of "fix" for it. The rpm range where the power goes "soft" seems to be much more closely associated with the point where swirl valve operation occurs. Power does not seem to go "soft" again at 5000-ish.
The car is primarily my wife's DD and long-distance trip car for three or more, and it does not see any sort of competition. IOW, requests for rpms in excess of 5000 haven't been all that common, so I would not suspect there to be much physical wear in the VIAS components. Under the present situation, it's frustrating to even run it up to 4000.
Since you've got my curiosity going, what are the VIAS cup and shaft made out of, and how thick is the metal that the cup is made out of?
Norm
07-21-2009, 10:43 AM
#4
I was actually getting on the forum to look for exactly this same problem. My 2000SE 5MT does just as you describe - it runs fine at lower RPM, but when accelerating under even part throttle, it just falls on its face right at 3400 rpm, in any gear, regardless of part or full throttle. The rpm's will slowly continue to rise, but don't expect to get any power out of it after 3400. Is this the same thing?
07-21-2009, 10:59 AM
#5
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If the swirl valve setup is similar to my california spec 99 setup, then they only operate during engine warm up to help with emissions. After that, they are open all the time.
You should definately look into the VIAS system for your power loss.
You should definately look into the VIAS system for your power loss.
07-21-2009, 11:10 AM
#6
the vias rod is made of plastic and carbon build up is why it would break it really has nothing to do with racing or ******* the car in fact daily driving could cause more carbon build up then if you did actually race the car. also if you use low octane fuel or have poor fuel quality in your area. i would definitly do the fix if you have never done it before..
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