ZGadson

Hey guys - just wondering if this has happened to anyone else.

My other half just bought a new 2010 Ford F150 from the dealer on Saturday. He put $3k down and accepted dealer financing (which was reasonable, but far from perfect for someone with a decent credit rating).

The papers were all signed on Saturday with financing settled. The dealer called today and said the financing did not go through, and that his debt to income ratio would not allow them to finance the car.

I've searched around and found this to be a typical ploy for dealers to renegotiate the contract for more money, but we've given our max down payment and cannot spend anymore on the monthly payment. If they want the truck back, its all theirs as long as we get the traded-in Taurus back (which they said they still have). We're not about to sign any new contracts.

Any thoughts? 2 cents? Ideas? Etc?

NissanMan97

iTrader: (5)

possession is 9/10th's of the law. if you want to keep the truck than keep it and mail them a check every month for the agree upon monthly payment

B

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

Been there, been played for that. It can be either an attempt to pressure into more money OR it can be legitamately about the debt to income. Many dealers have been hit hard, this includes the finance companies...we've all heard about these issues. So, they are more reluctant to finance as freely as they once did. Reality is, banks are closed on weekends and this is a common occurance (or an easy scape goat). Once banks open and deals are processed on Monday, there will be cancellations. Finance people can do the paperwork, but it is still up to the "underwriter" or whomever to approve.

You got it right though, just take the vehicle back. You are also in a position to speak directly to the sales manager, possibly owner and play the "We feel deceived and taken advantage of" card. May help, may not.

Nissan said: "possession is 9/10th's of the law. if you want to keep the truck than keep it and mail them a check every month for the agree upon monthly payment"

NOT good advice, hope you were joking! Fact is, if you read the paperwork, it will say something along the lines of "final sale/whatever based on actual approval by "X" finance company" based on your provided information. You also have "x" number of days to return the car and cancel the deal without penalty. That's way the dealer must keep your car so many days before they actually put it on the lot for resale.

The more honest finance people have told me on weekends banks are closed and actual approval cannot occur until Monday. Salesmen get cheated out of commission this way too. Although I hate salesmen, they have the WORST job because they are battling it from both sides, consumers and the corperate/banks.

NissanMan97

iTrader: (5)

good advice

B

ZGadson

I wondered about the banks on the weekend. We did sign the agreement at about 10AM, and most banks have Saturday morning hours, but you're right. Doesn't mean the bank the dealer works with was open.

We just feel lied to and jerked around. We paid internet pricing with no arguments about it, spent a Saturday morning waiting in a cubicle, and I'm sure 1000 different banks pinned our credit, so even if we walk away with our down payment and trade in back, I'll feel like we got back less than we went in with.

We decided on a new car because his Taurus needed $700 in repairs, and its easier just to get a new car than deal with the possibility of his car taking a total dump in the very near future. If they take the truck back, I almost want to ask them to fix the Taurus in exchange for the inconveniences they've caused us, but I know they'd laugh at the thought.

SiathLinux

When you go to the dealership = don't drive their truck - tell them you want the dealer to finance the truck, and that if they can't the BBB will be getting a call about their shady practice of financing then denying that financing.

The reason not to drive their truck there is they may block it in so that you can't drive it back out.

ZGadson

Good idea not to go back in the Truck. Never thought about that. Not only because they could decide to block it in, but if they can't see it, they don't know the condition its in. For all they know its got dents and stains already. If they can inspect it outside while you're being pushed around inside, they've got the advantage.

Nelsito65

That ploy is also used to get you to sign with a different "lender" but with a higher interest rate than the original. Furthermore, they may ask you to take on additional BS overpriced coverage, such as upholstery stain guard or something, in exchange of lower rate.
You might want to read the terms of your contract carefully; you may have a strong leg to stand on against whatever they are planning.

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

In other words, be prepared, be assertive, make a scene if you have to....uhm, just don't get arrested!

01Anniv20147

Isnt this the practice/ploy of "spot delivery"? You said they have the Taurus. Is it clear title? If so, I hope you did not give it to them yet. Alot of dealers can treat the transactions as separate they buy the trade from you and you buy the car from them. Many are unwilling to undo the first transaction thereby commiting you to buy something from them. Your car magically is "off to auction" or already sold to wholesaler etc etc etc

Get in front of this ASAP and find out the disposition of your trade and cancel the deal and dont fall for these tricks again. A GOOD F&I guy will tell you based on your credit if your approved BEFORE you drive off that lot.

ZGadson

...Still waiting for the dealer to call me back. If they don't call, I'm going to assume they realized they were dealing with the wrong person and will fix whatever financing issues they have on their own. (Assuming there even are issues.)

mist max2000

iTrader: (16)

whatever you do dont drive the truck... even if he says hey bring the truck back.. say.. ill be there to talk at X time...

and if they start playing you hard.. throw some jabs "sucks that some idiot just made a huge dent in the door and some kid key'ed the whole side of the truck".. or something to that extent so they know you mean buisness..

this is not a good situation.. dont let them push you like this.. remember they will always have ''all the answers'' ..and worst comes to worst.. tell them they will hear from the BBB soon, or your attorny


quick side story-- make a scene, when i was a kid, i was with my dad in a dealership where he bought a new car that came with lifetime oil changes,.. he brought the car in for an oil chance,.. at 3,100 miles and they said he voided the lifetime changes for not being under 3000, point of the story?,.. he started to make a scene, and got hushed into an office where the oil changes were given, and multiple gifts came in the mail lol...


also-- care to share the dealer?

ZGadson

Jim Tidwell Ford in Kennesaw, GA

This is the exact truck we bought

RAZ76

iTrader: (8)

That's why I never buy a car on the weekends when banks are closed. That's what happened, they just pre-approved him based on what they thought would go through. Then when they actually sent the paperwork to the bank that Monday, they denied it based on his credit. I've had that happen many times before. I had a car for 2 weeks before the dealer called and wanted their car back.

StenholmEngineering

iTrader: (3)

1st mistake..bought a ford...lol j/k. good luck with whatever you decide to do!!!!!

ReasonableDoubt

iTrader: (4)

Bottom line is, your brother does not own the car. The dealership owns it, since there is no bank loan to speak of because of the denial. Even if the loan had gone through, the bank would own it until it is fully paid off. Just because you don't hear from them doesn't mean that they have resolved the financial issues, that is your responsibility, not theirs. If you think different, wait until that all-black tow truck pulls up at 3AM.

I suggest you just return the truck, get your Taurus back, and take your business else where. Playing hard ball at this point will get you nothing but maybe a free set of floor mats or something. Either they will give you the loan or not...

ZGadson

I'm not a fan of Fords (why I have an Infiniti), but in truck world, Ford isn't a bad option. My 1st car was a loaded '97 Sable. Loved it and never had any engine/transmission issues until it hit 150k miles.

I'm also assuming that because the dealer wasn't blowing up my phone all day trying to get me to come back, that there really isn't a problem.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

Just for kicks, this might be a good time to go for that extended road trip you and your other half are due. Return the truck when you get back, with a couple thousand miles on the clock... and a few thousand dollars of new-car depreciation. Maybe at that point, they'll renegotiate with the depreciation in mind.

That sounds kind of fun... but the sane advice is probably to cut your losses and move on. No one needs crap like that in their lives.

mandyfig

Got burned with Tidwell Ford 18 years ago. Never laid eyes on them again!

Seriously, unfortunately they are playing you.

Take your money and give the business elsewhere.

Or get pre-approved from your credit union. Then go shop for the best deal!

Good luck!

rvamaxima

iTrader: (19)

I'm courious, you say you signed a sales contract and financing paperwork all approved by the sale/finance manager. I would think thats a legal and binding contract that they can't default on. Unless it states in all the fine print that financing has to be finalized at the bank, I'd think you should keep the truck at the rates signed upon. Check with a lawyer to see if they're just trying to fix their mistake at your expense.

El_PrOfE

iTrader: (4)

i am a loan officer at a local credit union in florida maybe i can help.

your loan approval was contingent on the dealer getting you financing, dealers are flexible on weekends as they can not always get an answer within 2 or 3 hours. so if you are giving a down payment or a trade in they will let you leave with the car with a different contract. i would nvr drive off the lot without an approval from a bank of financial institution. next time i would suggest using your direct bank or credit union and go through them to an approval. also do not fall for the dealers gap and warranty those are for the most part extremely overpriced. i know at our credit union our gap insurance is only 250 compared to a minimum of 500 from a dealer and it is the same exact coverage. do not let them fool you and try to sell you with half truths.

on to your problem if your debt ratio was to high chances are that it is true. so if they did not find financing then they could not help you. i would suggest a secondary lending institution. you want to keep your debt ratio within 40 to 50% of your gross monthly income. the higher your score the higher they will allow your debt ratio to be higher upto 50%. and remember what ever is on your credit report it will be part of your debts even if you did a loan as a favor for a friend or family member with little or now or low credit. so please be careful when you go to a dealer..

one piece of advise i can offer is never ever tell the dealer the payment you are trying to meet, they will get you that payment but you will end up paying 10 years of that car. also i would say negotiate a price before you start talking or letting them pull your credit. hope this help.

Derrick2k2SE

iTrader: (3)

I've been selling cars for 6 years now and have been on the other side of this situation several times. The finance manager looks at the credit info and the deal and thinks he can get an approval. For some reason the bank says no and he cant get the deal "bought" by the bank. It's not a scam or rip off, it's just the way business is done.

Nobody is damaged and the customer gets to burn somebody elses gas for a few days. I can tell you the dealer is doing everything he can to get the banks to approve the loan including cutting into his profit more than he already has.

Forget the bad advice about doing something stupid like keeping the truck or showing up in another vehicle to try negotiating. Bring the truck back and pick up the Tauras. It's that simple. The contract is very clear that everything in it rides on the bank approving the financing. The purchaser signed a document saying just that. As soon as the bank turns down the loan the contract is worthless and you're driving the dealers car. Try to keep it and the police will show up and arrest you.

I've seen customers stuffed in the back of a police car because they showed up in another car and refused to return the dealers car. The contracts are written by lawyers to protect the dealer. Trust me, there are no loopholes to let a customer get a free car.

ZGadson

I'm not stupid enough to try to keep it. If they want it back they can have it without a fight, given I get back every cent of my down payment and my Taurus.

Also, was talking to my neighbor about this. She bought a Honda Civic with dealer financing and was approved pending lender financing. The dealer told her they'd work it out with the lender should her financing fall through, and she'd be able to keep the car no matter what. Said that the dealer made the mistake, they'd fix it themselves.

Derrick2k2SE

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, I wasn't sugesting you would do something like that. It's just amazing the number of internet lawyers that come out to share their wisdom when something like this happens.

You'll have no problem getting your money and car back.

StenholmEngineering

iTrader: (3)

any updates??? im curious!!

bigpopaj369

iTrader: (2)

tell them the truck looks like this jk GL with everything!


its a 2010 mustang gt for those who are curious

Froggmann

iTrader: (6)

Whenever this happens just call their bluff. Tell them fine, you will return the vehicle, but expect to get your full down back and your trade-in. Don't budge until they "eat" the cost of the "change" in the contract.

And yes this is a typical tactic, they figure you are so enamored witht he new vehicle you will pay anything to stay in it. But as soon as you drive the vehicle off the lot it depreciates about 4-7K so them taking it back won't really be an option.

MinervaMaxxxima

/thread

maximal01

get your money an your car back then punch a b*tch

OneSexyLeo

iTrader: (4)

That's what happened to my 03 acura in 2006. We financed and all the paperwork was done. I had the car for 2 weeks and they told me that they don't accept mother-daughter financing??? Then when I brung the car back, they said that the have to reneogotiate the contract making my APR 29% which meant my car note would have been well over 500/mo. I told them take the car...gimme my money. Thus...I have my Max

SiathLinux

As for the remark about 'internet lawyers' - never claimed such, but I'm 41 years old and have purchased 22 different cars in my time, I've seen more dealer BS than most of you will ever deal with.
As for the truck - make the dealer find financing that works for both you and the dealer, they are full of it if you have 1/2 way decent credit to tell you that they can't get you financed, as I have no credit, my wife has 50k in college loans and a Nissan Dealer sold us a Versa - they had to modify the loan to get it done, but I drove a brand new car off that lot and didn't have to give it back when there was a problem with the initial finance company...

Learn the tricks of the dealer, and learn how to work with them, you'll get your truck, the dealer will get their sale. (and remember there is more than one bank/financing company that dealers can work with.)

icukev

I agree with Slathlinux. There are financing companies everywhere. If they really want to sale it, they would find something for you. The only way I would let them refinance it would be for a lower amount and less years (that won't happen normally).

MadMax07SL

You're in a tough spot when a dealership can't find you financing after all this effort's gone through. You may have decent credit, but if your ratio can't be adjusted enough for them to get a bank to jump on it, you're in trouble without more down payment to lower the monthly.

No one here has even centering on this as your primary problem. Here's what I always do...LIE a little about income. It's just that simple, they typically have no way of looking up your income, so inflate it by several thousand a year. They can see on your credit report what your minimum expenses are with credit cards and loans, but they can't see what you make. And if it's not on your report, don't tell them about it! Like something you just financed at the furniture store last week, they don't see it, therefore you don't declare it.

Unfortunately, it's hard now to change your declared income, since they'd be harder pressed now to find financing knowing you changed that income number. If there were something forgotten about, like a court ordered child support payment that you receive monthly, sometimes you can use that as an income offset. But they usually want proof of something like that, and now they're certainly going to require it...

You could always try to get them to adjust your monthly income and resubmit it to financing...

ZGadson

UPDATE:

Still have the truck. The only call we ever got saying financing didn't work was from Jim Tidwell himself, and said the financing manager would call later. We've yet to receive any calls from said financing manager and its been two full days. Not going to make any moves until they decide to call me back. Drove past yesterday and the Taurus is still on their lot, so at least if they do call and we end up giving the truck back I at least know we can get that back.

As far as the debt to income ratio is concerned, he makes decent money and his only debt totals less than $1000 on 2 separate credit cards that have never been in collections. This is why I'm thinking the dealer doesn't really have a legit claim.

Nexus67

iTrader: (23)

I think waiting was a hand you played well. The more time passes w/o a follow-up, the more they expose their true hand. (not saying it isn't a legitimate concern but it would seem it'd be nipped in the bud by now....as lenders are never known for being nice/patient)

The more you wait the more you'll know and as they say: 'time reveals all'

Ghost_54

iTrader: (13)

Okay I have read through the thread, and I truly am sorry to hear that the pending truck return is looming, but am just not following how the purchase was done. I live in Ontario so that may explain the differences. I have no problem understanding that you purchased the truck on a Saturday and with financing, and I also understand how that come Monday and bank open that the financing might get rejected, hence no deal. Here's what I am not following you were able to drop down 5,000.00 plus a trade filled out the financing paper work and drove off the lot. How did the ownership get changed, how were you able to show proof of insurance for the vehicle, how did the deal get plates for the truck?

Here in Ontario the dealer takes care of getting the ownership changed at the motor vehicles office (which by the way are only open Mon-Fri.) and before they can do that you have to provide them with your insurance information that you have notified your company of the new vehicle so that it is covered. As well the dealership is responsible for ensuring the vehicle has been safety and passes the emissions regulations, ( I know this is a new vehicle but these documents are still required to be provided to the new purchaser that the vehicle did pass all requirements. So what I am saying is, it takes normally three days from the point of purchase before you can even take possession of your new purchase. So I am just not understanding how the hell you were able to complete all the transactions on the same day of purchase and drive away.

bigpopaj369

iTrader: (2)

ghost u have a great point!, thats how most dealerships do things iirc

ZGadson

Technically, the dealer will still own the vehicle until the load is paid off. (I'm assuming the lender loans the money to the dealer (to pay the vehicle off from the dealer first) then I'm paying the lender directly with my monthly payments.) With a new dealer tag, you still need to insure the vehicle immediately, which we did on the phone on the way home through Progressive, hence, the vehicle is now insured in our name. It still has dealer tags which expire in 30 days, so we're hesitant to go pay for plates until we're sure the dealer is finished jerking us around.

Ghost_54

iTrader: (13)

Okay I get some of what you have said, but here in Ontario I would have to provide proof (a document) showing the insurance is in place, before the dealer can even go and get the ownership changed, I guess this what I am not understanding ... how the heck a dealer would even allow a 23,000 dollar vehicle off his lot. Technically if your in an accident (god forbid) your insured as you have said but the dealership still has ownership and would eat one hell of a lose as the deal has not been completed, so I am lost, trying to understand how this dealership is doing business with such a huge risk factor involved.

00GreenMax

iTrader: (1)

"Was" a 2010 Mustang GT

As for the truck, did you get any paperwork from the finance company or bank? I would call them and ask whats going on. If you never signed a finance contract, then you never really bought the truck, or should I say the bacnk never really bought the truck for you and the dealer still owns it. They may have put you in the truck in "good faith" that your loan would be approved.
If you havent heard from them its probably because they are working thier **** off to get you approved somewhere/somehow with the amount you orignally agreed on. The dealer really does not benefit from putting you in a loan with higher interest rate or monthly payments. They are still only geting "x" dollars from the bank once a loan is approved.
I'm am by no means an advocate for stealerships, but with the economy the way it is I'm sure they are doing everything they can to keep you in that truck. The last thing they want is for you to return it to them.
If they cant get you approved all you can do is make sure you leave there with all your money, your car, and maybe a few free oil changes. GL