Bionic Heart Transplant (6th Gen Engine into 5.5 Gen)
05-27-2010, 11:02 AM
#1
Bionic Heart Transplant (6th Gen Engine into 5.5 Gen)
So after 213,000 miles and many desperate attempts to ressurect this car time and time again with all the common issues these 5.5 gens have, My baby needs a new engine. Failed pre-cats did the irreperable damage to the rings and cylinders. So goodbye motor!
Major compression loss, little to no idle and clouds of white smoke are the results. This is after installing 4th gen headers with OBX Stainless y-Pipe and a brand new OEM catback. So now at this point, its time for a new motor. With the help of my buddy 98SEBlackMax, we are going to do the swap hopefully this weekend. At this point I'm going to get a 6th gen 3.5 and we will transplant it there.
Anyone with any know tips on things needed to be changed out, compatabilities, and what we may run into when doing this swap?
Thanks!
Major compression loss, little to no idle and clouds of white smoke are the results. This is after installing 4th gen headers with OBX Stainless y-Pipe and a brand new OEM catback. So now at this point, its time for a new motor. With the help of my buddy 98SEBlackMax, we are going to do the swap hopefully this weekend. At this point I'm going to get a 6th gen 3.5 and we will transplant it there.
Anyone with any know tips on things needed to be changed out, compatabilities, and what we may run into when doing this swap?
Thanks!
05-27-2010, 11:46 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 652
Installing a new engine is actually the easy part. Its connecting all the electrical that will destroy your brain cells. I don't know much about a total engine swap (I'm sure you know more than me by a long shot), but from just compating pictures of both engines (5th & 6th gens) they look very similar. I'm thinking the only big things would be the engine computer, and various intake and exhaust sensors. Would also be the time to upgrade to some new motor mounts.
I'd say go all the way and drop in a 6th gen transmission while you're at it.
Last edited by ZGadson; 05-27-2010 at 12:00 PM.
05-27-2010, 11:50 AM
#3
you have to change the upper intake manifold from your old engine to the "newer" 6th gen and some misc sensors.. curious, where are you getting your 6th gen engine, how many miles, and how much??
i can help if you need an engine!
i can help if you need an engine!
05-27-2010, 12:46 PM
#5
I'm also curious about this. Reason for buying a 6th gen is price, mileage, and availability, at least for me. Around my area the lowest mileage 5.5 motor has over 100k and they want 750 for it. I found 6th gen motors with 40k-70k miles for $500-$600. So i'd rather get a newer motor for less and swap out what needs to be swapped from the old engine.
05-27-2010, 01:17 PM
#7
05-27-2010, 01:29 PM
#8
When I called DaveB the parts guy he said junkyards rarely get the 3.5 VQ because they are so in demand. Now I am worried about the condition of my engine after replacing a jacked up bank 1 pre-cat.
I am curious to see how this goes, might be an option to keep in mind.
Good luck.
I am curious to see how this goes, might be an option to keep in mind.
Good luck.
05-27-2010, 02:16 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 652
When I called DaveB the parts guy he said junkyards rarely get the 3.5 VQ because they are so in demand. Now I am worried about the condition of my engine after replacing a jacked up bank 1 pre-cat.
I am curious to see how this goes, might be an option to keep in mind.
Good luck.
I am curious to see how this goes, might be an option to keep in mind.
Good luck.
05-27-2010, 02:27 PM
#10
I've been having the infamous oil-burning issue with my car since about 80k and didnt really know if it was burning since I also had a bad Rear Main Seal. So we replaced the RMS and later noticed that i was still suffering from low oil. Also, the valve cover gaskets went as well. From what I understand... aside from the 10 extra hp (which I'm not sure where it comes from) the oil burning issue had been improved, the 6th gen motors have reduced vibration and noise... and downright much lower mileage and cost. I don't know why the 5.5 gen engines are so much more with many more miles, but I gotta do what I gotta do.
the engine I'm picking up is from a 2005 but its automatic. I understand I will need to swap out the upper oil pan, but what else? it has 64,000 miles and has been stored in an indoor warehouse. I'm getting it for $450 plus $50 delivery. Which IMO makes the swap the most cost friendly option.
the engine I'm picking up is from a 2005 but its automatic. I understand I will need to swap out the upper oil pan, but what else? it has 64,000 miles and has been stored in an indoor warehouse. I'm getting it for $450 plus $50 delivery. Which IMO makes the swap the most cost friendly option.
05-27-2010, 02:30 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 652
What gives the 6th gen 10 more hp than the 5th gen? Wikipedia says the 2006 Max has 265 vs my 255 horsepower.
(Just saw your post above right after I posted this. Still curious though.)
(Just saw your post above right after I posted this. Still curious though.)
Last edited by ZGadson; 05-27-2010 at 02:33 PM.
05-27-2010, 03:07 PM
#12
Anyways this swap will require the intake manifold to be swapped over or plug the EGR hole on the A34 manifold. Also we are swapping over my old 4th gen headers and OBX 4th gen y pipe to fix the precat issue. Dave B provided us with a thread in bung to plug the rear header EGR hole. I already rewired the o2 sensor harnesses, but we have to get the bungs welded in the B pipe for the secondary sensors and get the exhaust pipes bent to not rattle on that bracket by the cat converter. The donor engine is an automatic so it has a flex plate instead of a flywheel, again something that should swap over no problem. Everything else I can see is the same. Not sure about needing to swap the upper or lower oil pans.
For the record I am running a '01 automatic DEK engine in my '96 5 speed without any issues, all these FWD VQs are similar.
Also as stated the '04 ~ '08 engines are lower mileage, cheaper, and seem to have less of an oil burning problem than the '02 ~ '03 engines. Oil burning won't matter as much having the precats removed and running just a main cat converter. Wish we could spring for the Cattman headers and 3" catback.
Last edited by 98SEBlackMax; 05-27-2010 at 03:43 PM.
RWD block.
05-27-2010, 03:41 PM
#15
The exhaust has VTCs but if IIRC its a simple on/off solenoid, kinda like the VIs. Whereas the intake VTCs are variable with a PWM signal from the ECU.
05-27-2010, 03:58 PM
#17
The only thing that's different is the IM and knock sensor. Everything else should be plug and play. I had this swap done years ago on the old car.
The 6th gens make more power b/c nissan just tuned them slightly more for marketing (have to outpace the other brands' hp #).
We have a ****ty ecu and stock tune. It's no big secret. Why didn't they just underrate the max and make it identical to the Z? So lame, nissan.
The 6th gens make more power b/c nissan just tuned them slightly more for marketing (have to outpace the other brands' hp #).
We have a ****ty ecu and stock tune. It's no big secret. Why didn't they just underrate the max and make it identical to the Z? So lame, nissan.
Last edited by Child_uv_KoRn; 05-27-2010 at 04:02 PM.
05-27-2010, 04:21 PM
#19
The only thing that's different is the IM and knock sensor. Everything else should be plug and play. I had this swap done years ago on the old car.
The 6th gens make more power b/c nissan just tuned them slightly more for marketing (have to outpace the other brands' hp #).
We have a ****ty ecu and stock tune. It's no big secret. Why didn't they just underrate the max and make it identical to the Z? So lame, nissan.
The 6th gens make more power b/c nissan just tuned them slightly more for marketing (have to outpace the other brands' hp #).
We have a ****ty ecu and stock tune. It's no big secret. Why didn't they just underrate the max and make it identical to the Z? So lame, nissan.
...
05-27-2010, 06:22 PM
#22
7th gen is basically the same as an 03 Z if you ask me. There's nothing special at all. Exhaust is better than ours, I'm sure. The lazy asses probably just copied the Z map to it haha.
I swear it costs more to make this **** wrong like they do than it would be to just do it right. How hard (easy rather) would it be to make a smooth flowing exhaust (long tube and all) that's only slowed by the cats which would be pnp replaceable with test pipes? I think more material and time is wasting designing this horrid crap. Fail for every manuf all around on this one.
Last edited by Child_uv_KoRn; 05-27-2010 at 06:28 PM.
05-27-2010, 06:27 PM
#23
Probably will end up doing the same swap (6th gen or Altima 3.5) eventually since I am pushing 177,000 miles and using a quart of oil every 1500 miles or so. Oil consumption really hasn't worsened in the 63,000 miles I've had the car so it isn't like I have to do this immediately, plus I've replaced my original precats with much lower mileage ones. However, the car is paid off and the paint and interior are in really good shape. Even if I have to do a transmission too, I figure the cost of a used transmission and engine plus installation wouldn't be more than $2500 or so, which is less than a year's worth of car payments and I'd get another 4-5 years easy out of the car.
Looking forward to your progress on this swap. I've done engine swaps in RWD cars in the past but they were also V8s in large engine bays with a lot of room to work in so it went pretty fast. Best advice I can give you is to take pictures of all the connections, wiring, hose routing, etc and don't try to rush it.
Looking forward to your progress on this swap. I've done engine swaps in RWD cars in the past but they were also V8s in large engine bays with a lot of room to work in so it went pretty fast. Best advice I can give you is to take pictures of all the connections, wiring, hose routing, etc and don't try to rush it.
05-27-2010, 06:43 PM
#24
No need to change the upper oil pan, you would only be replacing it with the identical thing. You will have do some work in the back of the crank where the clutch alignment tool go. Been there, have fun.
05-27-2010, 07:39 PM
#25
http://forums.maxima.org/other-cars/...confusion.html
A34 has softer valve springs as well as some other minor software modifications (MAF/ECU).
HR heads, but we have yet to verify the CVVT on I & E, or have we (you)?
Last edited by NmexMAX; 05-27-2010 at 07:44 PM.
05-28-2010, 01:33 AM
#26
is there a diff b/w the manual and the auto? car-parts.com notes a difference.
how much work are we talking about?
how much work are we talking about?
05-28-2010, 06:41 AM
#27
So basically anyone can swap a 6th gen motor into a 5.5 by just replacing the knock sensor and IM? If this is true i'm going to order a 6th gen motor next week sometime. What about the differences between an Auto and Manual? does anyone know what that would be?
I don't understand why they wouldn't be cross referenced on any parts sites if that's the only difference, i guess because it's not an exact part for part swap?
05-28-2010, 06:59 AM
#28
Definitely bookmarking this one. I'm at 113k but have suffered the dreaded oil burning and plan to do a swap eventually. I'd like to pick up a motor and add a few improved parts for reliability, and now hearing these price points, I'm more inclined to pick up a 6th gen motor. If you can, post up pics of the process. I'm sure we'd all like to see them, even if it is a VQ35 for VQ35 swap.
05-28-2010, 07:34 PM
#29
There is no difference in the oil pan. If you have an FSM you could verify it for yourself. My engine is from an auto and all did was swap my flywheel to this motor. The auto is less likely to be over revved.
05-28-2010, 09:24 PM
#31
Just checked with the FAST CD and there are two different part #s for the CPS on the '04 ~ '06 engines with the auto and manuals.
But the '02 ~ '03 and '04 ~ '06 engines with manual transmissions all have the same CPS part #.
Maybe the CPS is a different length to accomidate the flex plate of an auto Vs the flywheel of a manual?
We will have to keep the engines and compare side by side. On Tuesday they are dropping off the '05 engine and want the old one back or we will get a core charge. I'd like to have them side by side so we can compare everything.
So far the intake manifold, EGR stuff, and knock sensor appear to be the only different parts on the '04 ~ '06 engines in comparison to the '02 ~ '03. If its an automatic like this project obviously the flexplate and CPS need to be swapped.
But the '02 ~ '03 and '04 ~ '06 engines with manual transmissions all have the same CPS part #.
Maybe the CPS is a different length to accomidate the flex plate of an auto Vs the flywheel of a manual?
We will have to keep the engines and compare side by side. On Tuesday they are dropping off the '05 engine and want the old one back or we will get a core charge. I'd like to have them side by side so we can compare everything.
So far the intake manifold, EGR stuff, and knock sensor appear to be the only different parts on the '04 ~ '06 engines in comparison to the '02 ~ '03. If its an automatic like this project obviously the flexplate and CPS need to be swapped.
Last edited by 98SEBlackMax; 05-28-2010 at 09:32 PM.
05-28-2010, 11:13 PM
#32
I did this swap in my car last year. Very straight forward. Depending on what year motor you buy and if you are 6spd/auto you might have to change your upper oil pan. I got a 06 motor which came out of an auto car so I had to swap my upper oil pan from my motor onto the 06 motor because I am 6spd. The only other things that must be swapped over are the IM (6th gen has EGR and 5.5gen doesn't), the crank position sensor and the knock sensor. Also the fuel rail from the 5.5 motor has to be swapped onto the 6th gen motor because the fuel connections are different. Obviously use your original engine harness and NOT the 6th gen harness.
05-29-2010, 12:54 AM
#33
Just checked with the FAST CD and there are two different part #s for the CPS on the '04 ~ '06 engines with the auto and manuals.
But the '02 ~ '03 and '04 ~ '06 engines with manual transmissions all have the same CPS part #.
Maybe the CPS is a different length to accomidate the flex plate of an auto Vs the flywheel of a manual?
We will have to keep the engines and compare side by side. On Tuesday they are dropping off the '05 engine and want the old one back or we will get a core charge. I'd like to have them side by side so we can compare everything.
So far the intake manifold, EGR stuff, and knock sensor appear to be the only different parts on the '04 ~ '06 engines in comparison to the '02 ~ '03. If its an automatic like this project obviously the flexplate and CPS need to be swapped.
But the '02 ~ '03 and '04 ~ '06 engines with manual transmissions all have the same CPS part #.
Maybe the CPS is a different length to accomidate the flex plate of an auto Vs the flywheel of a manual?
We will have to keep the engines and compare side by side. On Tuesday they are dropping off the '05 engine and want the old one back or we will get a core charge. I'd like to have them side by side so we can compare everything.
So far the intake manifold, EGR stuff, and knock sensor appear to be the only different parts on the '04 ~ '06 engines in comparison to the '02 ~ '03. If its an automatic like this project obviously the flexplate and CPS need to be swapped.
05-29-2010, 09:15 AM
#34
I did this swap in my car last year. Very straight forward. Depending on what year motor you buy and if you are 6spd/auto you might have to change your upper oil pan. I got a 06 motor which came out of an auto car so I had to swap my upper oil pan from my motor onto the 06 motor because I am 6spd. The only other things that must be swapped over are the IM (6th gen has EGR and 5.5gen doesn't), the crank position sensor and the knock sensor. Also the fuel rail from the 5.5 motor has to be swapped onto the 6th gen motor because the fuel connections are different. Obviously use your original engine harness and NOT the 6th gen harness.
I guess my '05 was from a stick, then. And I don't remember the crank sensor being different on mine :shrugs:
05-29-2010, 05:14 PM
#35
The crank sensor is essentially the same thing but the mounting hole is in a different position and didn't line up correctly.
06-02-2010, 09:49 PM
#38
Transmission and almost everything for the engine is out. Worked a few hours each day on Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. Got to pull the old engine out on Friday. Not rushing as we are waiting on the parts and the engine.
Replacement engine is coming in on Friday afternoon. Will swap the oil pans and all the other stuff then put everything back together over the weekend.
Replacement engine is coming in on Friday afternoon. Will swap the oil pans and all the other stuff then put everything back together over the weekend.
Last edited by 98SEBlackMax; 06-03-2010 at 12:11 AM.
no pictures?
