BioMaxDDS

iTrader: (1)

This is what I don't understand.
why people are saying 5th Gen(2000-2001) maximas are slower than 4th gen?? doesn't 2000-20001 maximas have more hp?? at least that's what i thought, cuz i know car manufacturers are always trying to make cars go faster right??!!
i have a 2k2, so my is definitely faster than 4th gen right? i am talking about stock, no modds
thanks.......i'm just curious! don't mean to start anything

Burton069

iTrader: (2)

Weight

Sonic

And the fact that maximum power in the VQDE30-K is at redline, where it is not usable. Just trust everyone and believe that the 4th and 5th gens are EXACTLY as fast as one another.

clee130

Here's a story. Me (a 4th gen - 95 with JWT intake and 15s) vs RBa (5th gen - 2K with CAI, y-pipe and exhaust and 17s).

Lined up at a light. Both took off. We remained about even all the way up to about three lights. Not enough to reach top end speed, but enough for RBa to "give it all he had".

Like Burton069 said, it's all about weight.

Stock for stock, auto vs auto, (stick vs stick is trickier - it depends on who gets a better launch, but usually), 4th gen will win over the 5th gen because the 5th gen is heavier.

Burton069

iTrader: (2)

Weight

BioMaxDDS

iTrader: (1)

thx for reply, and solving the questions in my head.
how bout 4th gen vs 2k2 maximas?
and if anybody know how much does 4th gen weight, and how about 5th?

clee130

2k2 shouldn't really be called a 5th gen. You guys have too much hp.

A 2k2 will destroy a 4th gen.

emax02

iTrader: (1)

My 5spd 95 SE weighs 3018
My 2002 6spd SE weighs 3218


Stock for stock my 2002 is a LOT faster then my 95. With just about every NA bolt on mod for my 95 my 02 is still quicker then it. I chirped 3rd today while driving straight{no curves} in my 5.6th gen! .

maxman2k

i would like to respectfully disagree. i had a 98 auto and traded it in for a 2k auto and the 2k is a fatser car. perhaps 0-30 the 98 would have a slight advantage, but beyond that the 2k is a faster car, no question. i know this because my bro in law has a 95 Legend, and i couldnt beat him with my 98, we just stayed even and i couldnt pull away. now with my 2k i can get him by a car legnth. the only way a 4th gen can beat a 5th gen is if the 4th gen is a stick and the 5th gen is an auto. but auto vs auto and stick vs stick, the 5th gen is faster. so quit hatin

clee130

So you're saying:

98 Max vs 95 Legend - equal
2K Max vs 95 Legend - Max won

Then you say since the 98 Max and 95 Legend were about the same: 95 Legend = 98 Max.

So then:
2K vs 98 Max (95 Legend) - 2K will win

Interesting theory, but flawed.

I won't say any more. I'll just say this: I still stand by the fact that stock for stock, auto for auto, a 4th gen will win because of weight. However, since this board has a thing for proof, I'm going to go out and race a 5th gen and record it. If I lose, I lose, if I win, I win.

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

I currently have a 2k2 Auto and 97 auto and previously a 2k1 auto. the 97 auto is and was quicker than the 2k1 auto, but the 2k2 is quicker than the 97 auto. I really didnt feel all that high end the 2k and 2k1 suppose to have, I am sort of glad it was totalled but love my 2k2 and 97 equally as each has it strong and weak points.

Sonic

This is SO incorrect it isn't even funny. A STOCK 4th gen ran a best time of 15.6 seconds. A STOCK 5th gen AT THE SAME TRACK 10 minutes later could ony run a fastest of 15.7. Identical launch techniques. You comaprison is HORRIBLY flawed. BTW, a 4th gen auto can pull on a 5th gen 5 speed with the same mods(conditions have to be right). SO QUIT HATIN

RussMaxManiac

The 5th gen is a tick faster than the 4th gen due to weight. And you will only see that on the highway most of the time due to the way the power is setup in the powercurve.

RussMaxManiac

I have one battles like that but the 4th gen had the more mods. Ran 5 total 4th gens off this club with members and no one has beaten me yet.

Galo

Gen4 reukt

RussMaxManiac

Your info is flawed. Weight only is considered a disadvatage off the line. Once your MOVING weight takes NO FACTOR. That is why the 5th gen is much faster rolling than off the line. I have a loaded SE 2001 Maxima. With just a generic intake. I ran DRU at the track. We were getting identical times. When we run, we are dead even. He has a generic cone intake as well and a catback exhaust! He also has a GXE 97. Much lighter than my car even if he has custom leather.

Sonic

Russ can beat '02 Maximas too.

RussMaxManiac

You 4th gen owners will never see the light. Give up 5th gen owners. As long as you know your car is faster then it is. I only lost once 2 a 4th gen and that was Ants97se when my intake was half off the piping and the car was detonating. After I fixed that, a few weeks later we ran again. This time I pulled on him.

He has ypipe, cai.

hawkdog

Yeah, the conditions include the 5 speed driver having one leg and one arm. Give us a break. And with your track times there...you didn't mention the shifting techniques used...if I remember right from one of your other posts those times are letting the car shift itself, instead of using the VQ's max hp at the redline. Doesn't it make sense that a 17% increase in horsepower more than makes up for a 6% weight gain??

Galo

available weight data of roughly 3020 pounds for a Gen 4 stick versus 3200 lbs for a Gen 5 stick the pounds per horsepower data works out to be 15.88 lbs/HP for the Gen 4 and 14.41 lbs/HP for the Gen5.

Now, there are quite a few folks who believe the Gen4 might have been a bit underrated..even if you assume 200 hp for the Gen 4 it still yields 15.09 lbs/HP so...all other things being equal the Gen 5 should be quicker than a Gen 4 by about 4 percent. If it is'nt, someone's not being truthful. Nissan?

Sonic

Then he can't drive. Simple as that.

NuJerseyDrive

iTrader: (3)

What kind of mods you got? I'm bone stock. I'm down for a friendly run if you want. I really dont care either. If I win then cool, if I lose then oh well... Just wanna find out.

Sonic

That same day, we had a 4th gen 5 speed owner that was stuck in the 16s. Launch technique in 5 speeds is an acquired skill, not many people can pull off a sub 15 time. However, both of those drivers have automatics. Launch technique was torque braking to ~2K, then letting go of the brake. Not much to it.

As for the 17% increase in power vs. 6% increase in weight, have you ever looked at where the 5th gen makes maximum power? In case you haven't, its AT redline, which means that it isn't usable outside of 1st gear. THAT'S why the 222 HP 'trick' Nissan used doesn't work out in the 'real world'. A 4th gen is AS FAST as a 5th gen. Why people get insulted hearing this, I don't know, but it has been proven WAY too many times for you all to continue to dispute it.

clee130

Performance-wise, JWT intake, that's it. Suspension wise, fstb and rsb.

And I'm in NYC, I take it you're from Joisey? Come to the NE forum.

And you know what? This thread is never going to end. It's just going to wind up a big flame-fest. So I'm just gonna sit down and shut up. Not because I "will never see the light"... because I just don't friggin care.

It's amazingly wonderful that Russ has beaten every single 4th gen he's encountered. Good for you Russ, good job!

I, on the other hand, have raced a 5th gen auto with mods, and he couldn't get me off the line or pull away from me. And if we can't compare track times and if we can't compare street races and if are reduced to comparing numbers, well ... then....

I'm gonna sit down and shut up now.

Sonic

Don't forget that little pull that I have on tape vs. a 5th gen too, guess that doesn't count either...

hawkdog

My car pulls harder all the way to redline in 1st gear, 2nd gear, 3rd gear, and 4th gear. Are you telling me that if I'm at 6600 RPM in 4th gear that HP isnt there, but in 1st gear it is??

hawkdog

I said SHIFTING method, not launch method.

Sonic

The 4th gen owner left it in Drive, as did the 5th gen owner. The 5th gen owner was running 15.9s with 'manual' shifting. An automatic can only hit redline in 1st gear, the TCU shifts at points lower than that in 2nd and above. BTW, for maximum performance/best times, you shouldn't be shifting at redline in any gear outside of 1st.

max'n out

It's not just weight tho that is a big part of it, but it's things like arodynamics, power within the band(where it falls), wheels size, body rock off the driving wheels, things like that there is alot to take in to consideration.

NuJerseyDrive

iTrader: (3)

Oh my bad, I got a RSB too. Mobile 1 oil and thats it.

I'm in there from time to time. Hope I can join you guys one day in dem crazy vids

maxman2k

could you explain why it is horribly flawed? whats the difference between my comparison and yours? has a STOCK 4th gen ever hit a 14.8, like a 5th gen has? you really need to just open your eyes to the fact that 5th gens are faster on average than 4th gens. i am not dissin 4th gens, i had one and loved it, but facts are facts. sorry. AND QUIT USING MY LINES

clee130

This is from a 5th gen owner:

maxman2k

[QUOTE]Originally posted by clee130



This is from a 5th gen owner:
[/QUOTE/]
your reasoning is HORRIBLY flawed. why is his opinion any more valuable than mine??? i had a 98 and now i have a 2k. i have had both too. ohh but you like HIS opinion, therefore you use his quote. i see now.

Sonic

A STOCK 4th gen has hit 14.7.

hawkdog

Arguing which automatic is faster is stupid. My 5th gen 5 speed, or any other 4th or 5th gen 5 speed will beat any automatic (same mods) like a red headed stepchild. Under any conditions, anywhere, any time. And I don't want to hear you whine about how you beat one. I will race any n/a automatic maxima, and I guarantee I will win 100 out of 100 times. Put Mario Andretti in the automatic for all I care, or put my grandma. It doesn't make a difference. There is no way a COMPETENT 5 speed driver would ever lose to a auto. Putting in a real transmission should be the first mod any automatic owner that wants to race does. 4th gen auto vs. 5th gen auto...fine, they're the same. But who really cares when any 4th or 5th gen stick can take them to school??

clee130

Because he wasn't substituting a Maxima into the equation instead of a Legend.

It's like this:
Legend = A
4th gen = B
5th gen = C

C beat A
and
C beat B

So then A=B

Does a Legend = Maxima?

His comparison might have been flawed also, but it's less flawed then your comparison.

clee130

Here starts the "5 spds are real cars, autos don't count" arguments.

myself

Dammit ... I told myself I was gonna shut up... starting..... NOW!

maxman2k

i still dont understand why it is flawed.

c beats a...b = a...therefore c beats b...why is that flawed???

hawkdog

And I'm sure someday a 5th gen owner that weighs 110 lbs. will throw some ugly 15" wheels on his car, which is a factory fluke, drop his tire pressure to 15 psi, strip every part possible from the inside, have to push his car back to the garage since he only had enough gas in it to get down the track, and get a perfect run and beat that. And then a "stock" 5th gen will have a better time than a "stock" 4th gen.

Sonic

If I remember correctly, this thread was about 4th and 5th gens. Since you didn't ever post anything relavent about this argument, why do you continue to post in this thread about 5 speeds and automatics? And if you believe that you will will 100 out of 100 times, may I point you to Synki, SprintMax, Clee, RBa, Quansung, DMBMaxima88, yo_its_ok or anybody else to prove you wrong? They have ALL witnessed 5 speeds not being able to beat an automatic. Or do they not count either?