BBMAF - 76.2mm vs 82mm
BBMAF - 76.2mm vs 82mm
Read a few threads, but it seems that a few people lost power with the 82mm BBMAF and some gained. I have the Apexi NEO and with all my other mods, I can tune for the BBMAF (will have a wideband installed soon) so I would like to get it right the first time. Which is best for getting the most power? I would prefer not to have to do this more than once and get the right part the first time 
Also, depending on the best size, what are the years and models of the cars we can get the MAF housing from? I think my answer would be in a few threads that have been around for a while but they give me the error when I click on them that the thread can't be found.

Also, depending on the best size, what are the years and models of the cars we can get the MAF housing from? I think my answer would be in a few threads that have been around for a while but they give me the error when I click on them that the thread can't be found.
From what I've seen, the loss of power in a BBMAF, regardless of size would come from improper installation or lack of tuning.
Example, there was one user complaining about a power loss and posted pictures of his setup, and it appears that although his MAF housing was larger, the filter & piping leading up to the MAF was stock size, and the piping after the MAF was stock size, which probably didn't introduce a net increase in airflow, just turbulance.
So you'll want a consistent pipe diameter and then couple it to your stock TB, make sure you get a velocity stack to help with laminar airflow too.
As for availability... Land Rover, BMW E39, Ferrari F360 MAFs are the same with respect to housing size.
Link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-M...9#ht_936wt_939
Example, there was one user complaining about a power loss and posted pictures of his setup, and it appears that although his MAF housing was larger, the filter & piping leading up to the MAF was stock size, and the piping after the MAF was stock size, which probably didn't introduce a net increase in airflow, just turbulance.
So you'll want a consistent pipe diameter and then couple it to your stock TB, make sure you get a velocity stack to help with laminar airflow too.
As for availability... Land Rover, BMW E39, Ferrari F360 MAFs are the same with respect to housing size.
Link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-M...9#ht_936wt_939
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As moncef said, if you go with a 82MM MAF, you will want to go with a 3.5" velocity stack and 3.5" piping to match (they tend to be 82-83MM ID), with a reducer going into the TB to promote another venturi effect through the TB. The MAF he linked is the exact same one that I bought and modified for my use. Plastic on it is a bit brittle and you must modify it if you choose to remove the screen, but it is 82MM ID.
For the reducer, couplers, 3.5" velocity stack and 3.5" piping I used vibrant, vibrant, blox and an amazon retailer respectively... all ordered on amazon in 1 shopping cart. The vibrant stuff appears to simply be rebadged or very well replicated SAMCO stuff for cheaper.
Also to add to what he said, another reason people may not gain power with this mod is if they don't have all supporting mods to increase the engine's need to breathe. However, I believe you are at the point where this would be beneficial if done properly.
For the reducer, couplers, 3.5" velocity stack and 3.5" piping I used vibrant, vibrant, blox and an amazon retailer respectively... all ordered on amazon in 1 shopping cart. The vibrant stuff appears to simply be rebadged or very well replicated SAMCO stuff for cheaper.
Also to add to what he said, another reason people may not gain power with this mod is if they don't have all supporting mods to increase the engine's need to breathe. However, I believe you are at the point where this would be beneficial if done properly.
Last edited by sparks03max; Feb 8, 2011 at 08:11 PM.
For the reducer, couplers, 3.5" velocity stack and 3.5" piping I used vibrant, vibrant, blox and an amazon retailer respectively... all ordered on amazon in 1 shopping cart. The vibrant stuff appears to simply be rebadged or very well replicated SAMCO stuff for cheaper.
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The vibrant stuff comes with clamps. I can link the individual components. The entire intake all said and done with shipping probably came out to ~$150 including the MAF adapter.
--Vibrant 3.5" to 3" reducer in black
--Couldn't find the blox 3.5" on there any more, but there are other companies that sell them made of composite... then you have Vibrant 3.5" velocity stack aluminum
--For couplers I used 2x of these Vibrant 3.5" couplers + clamps
--Another coupler option is to get your own clamps and just buy this and cut your own couplers (could probably make 4-5 out of this) OBX 12" long coupler material 3.5" ID
--For the 3.5" aluminum piping, I bought one of these and used it for both the intake manifold elbow on my custom plenum box and the intake itself. 3.5" aluminum piping 180 degree bend
--Vibrant 3.5" to 3" reducer in black
--Couldn't find the blox 3.5" on there any more, but there are other companies that sell them made of composite... then you have Vibrant 3.5" velocity stack aluminum
--For couplers I used 2x of these Vibrant 3.5" couplers + clamps
--Another coupler option is to get your own clamps and just buy this and cut your own couplers (could probably make 4-5 out of this) OBX 12" long coupler material 3.5" ID
--For the 3.5" aluminum piping, I bought one of these and used it for both the intake manifold elbow on my custom plenum box and the intake itself. 3.5" aluminum piping 180 degree bend
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Mine is coupled straight to the throttle body. I suppose it's possible that could introduce a bit of turbulence near the maf sensor, but haven't had any problems.
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Of course if you don't want to get all scientific about it, shorter is generally better. Although I have seen good results with my long "SRI" that sits right behind the headlight.
You'll save pennies buying your Vibrant stuff from:
http://www.sportcompactwarehouse.com.../i-165067.aspx
http://www.sportcompactwarehouse.com.../i-165067.aspx
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You'll save pennies buying your Vibrant stuff from:
http://www.sportcompactwarehouse.com.../i-165067.aspx
http://www.sportcompactwarehouse.com.../i-165067.aspx
Last edited by sparks03max; Feb 9, 2011 at 06:19 AM.
The one I linked on amazon is 6" inlet, 3.5" outlet that can be used with a normal AEM dry flow filter. Unless I'm reading it wrong, it looks like the only 3.5" available from what you linked is a 7" inlet. Even if you still had to get the 3.5"x6" from amazon, they seem to have better prices on the other vibrant stuff, nice find.
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Forgive me, I believe this goes inside of the air filter right? I have a filter from autozone but I think the hole only goes up to 4", it has rubber coupler-like things inside of it that take it to a smaller size. I guess I have to order a filter that has a 6" or 7" opening, huh?
http://www.amazon.com/AEM-21-209EDK-...7261245&sr=1-1
You want something like this. 6" is the most common inlet for the larger filters.
http://www.amazon.com/AEM-21-209EDK-...7261245&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/AEM-21-209EDK-...7261245&sr=1-1
EDIT: Good prices here on the velocity stack, but I guess Blox just doesn't make 3.5 anymore...
http://www.jhpusa.com/store/pc/viewP...1&idcategory=0
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I actually got my couplers from these guys because I already have tons of clamps... Cheaper and better quality, these are 4 ply instead of the single ply vibrant ones. (not that it matters on non-forced induction applications)
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/produ...730f872ebac30f
You could also check out BPI for a composite 3.5"
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/produ...730f872ebac30f
You could also check out BPI for a composite 3.5"
Last edited by sparks03max; Feb 9, 2011 at 06:39 AM.
I've used both 82mm & 76.2mm and I see no difference in either, and the global scaling of the SAFCII (in your case, the NEO) wasn't affected (AFR) by the change of either sensor housing.
Last edited by NmexMAX; Feb 9, 2011 at 11:33 AM.
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Don't tell me your 82MM maf didn't make a difference... That's like 3 feet vs 3 inches!
Last edited by NmexMAX; Feb 9, 2011 at 11:46 AM.
There are some pretty useful formulas out there that can be used to roughly determine the resonant frequency of an intake pipe and you can actually tune the length to whatever RPM range blah blah blah...
Of course if you don't want to get all scientific about it, shorter is generally better. Although I have seen good results with my long "SRI" that sits right behind the headlight.
Of course if you don't want to get all scientific about it, shorter is generally better. Although I have seen good results with my long "SRI" that sits right behind the headlight.
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Acoustic resonance:
Sounds are waves in the air, specifically longitudinal waves. These type of waves cause pressure waves (90 degrees
out of phase with wave itself) that are directly proportional in strength to the amplitude of the sound wave. It is
possible to utilize this effect to increase intake air pressures within the intake tube. In most instances the
amplitude of a sound wave is not that large. During resonance however the sound wave amplitude becomes much larger
(and so does the pressure wave following it). During this resonance it is possible to gain significant amounts of
torque and actually create positive manifold pressure (above 1 atm). This effect is sometimes called the AEM HUMP,
where power spikes ~10hp for a couple hundred RPM around 4500 RPM in their cold air intakes. The resonance frequency
of a pipe depends on the length and the diameter of the tube.
Fn= n (v/4L)
n = wave number, v = velocity of sound (~340m/s), L length of pipe
Note: v the speed of sound changes with temperature.
The diameter of a pipe has a small effect on the resonance frequency as well. The sound wave behavior remains consistent
with that of a pipe for ~.6 times the diameter (D). So
Fn= n (v)
___________
4(L+.6(D))
For a 1-meter intake pipe this translates into a resonance frequency of 85 hz or 5100 RPM. The intake pipe reaches
resonance frequency when the driving force of the system (the engine) is also at that frequency. This is RPM/60;
rotations per second.
Sounds are waves in the air, specifically longitudinal waves. These type of waves cause pressure waves (90 degrees
out of phase with wave itself) that are directly proportional in strength to the amplitude of the sound wave. It is
possible to utilize this effect to increase intake air pressures within the intake tube. In most instances the
amplitude of a sound wave is not that large. During resonance however the sound wave amplitude becomes much larger
(and so does the pressure wave following it). During this resonance it is possible to gain significant amounts of
torque and actually create positive manifold pressure (above 1 atm). This effect is sometimes called the AEM HUMP,
where power spikes ~10hp for a couple hundred RPM around 4500 RPM in their cold air intakes. The resonance frequency
of a pipe depends on the length and the diameter of the tube.
Fn= n (v/4L)
n = wave number, v = velocity of sound (~340m/s), L length of pipe
Note: v the speed of sound changes with temperature.
The diameter of a pipe has a small effect on the resonance frequency as well. The sound wave behavior remains consistent
with that of a pipe for ~.6 times the diameter (D). So
Fn= n (v)
___________
4(L+.6(D))
For a 1-meter intake pipe this translates into a resonance frequency of 85 hz or 5100 RPM. The intake pipe reaches
resonance frequency when the driving force of the system (the engine) is also at that frequency. This is RPM/60;
rotations per second.
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Here is the super short version of the 3.5" intake that I"ll be testing against a "length tuned" version. The coupler on the left is a 3.5>3" reducer and goes straight onto the TB. The other end is where the filter clamps on!
Ok, I'm finally ordering everything. Anyone have any input on the dryflow cover they make for the filters? Worth it or not?
EDIT: Any of these MAF tubes will do?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Land-...ht_6062wt_1165
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-M...ht_1725wt_1165
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MASS-...ht_2182wt_1165
EDIT: Any of these MAF tubes will do?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Land-...ht_6062wt_1165
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-M...ht_1725wt_1165
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MASS-...ht_2182wt_1165
Last edited by viperboy; Apr 23, 2011 at 07:22 AM.
Ok, I'm finally ordering everything. Anyone have any input on the dryflow cover they make for the filters? Worth it or not?
EDIT: Any of these MAF tubes will do?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Land-...ht_6062wt_1165
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-M...ht_1725wt_1165
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MASS-...ht_2182wt_1165
EDIT: Any of these MAF tubes will do?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Land-...ht_6062wt_1165
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-M...ht_1725wt_1165
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MASS-...ht_2182wt_1165
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