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BBMAF - 76.2mm vs 82mm

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Old Feb 8, 2011 | 05:24 PM
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BBMAF - 76.2mm vs 82mm

Read a few threads, but it seems that a few people lost power with the 82mm BBMAF and some gained. I have the Apexi NEO and with all my other mods, I can tune for the BBMAF (will have a wideband installed soon) so I would like to get it right the first time. Which is best for getting the most power? I would prefer not to have to do this more than once and get the right part the first time

Also, depending on the best size, what are the years and models of the cars we can get the MAF housing from? I think my answer would be in a few threads that have been around for a while but they give me the error when I click on them that the thread can't be found.
Old Feb 8, 2011 | 05:49 PM
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From what I've seen, the loss of power in a BBMAF, regardless of size would come from improper installation or lack of tuning.

Example, there was one user complaining about a power loss and posted pictures of his setup, and it appears that although his MAF housing was larger, the filter & piping leading up to the MAF was stock size, and the piping after the MAF was stock size, which probably didn't introduce a net increase in airflow, just turbulance.

So you'll want a consistent pipe diameter and then couple it to your stock TB, make sure you get a velocity stack to help with laminar airflow too.

As for availability... Land Rover, BMW E39, Ferrari F360 MAFs are the same with respect to housing size.

Link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-M...9#ht_936wt_939
Old Feb 8, 2011 | 06:56 PM
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^^^ this lol... soulja cef tell em!
Old Feb 8, 2011 | 07:29 PM
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As moncef said, if you go with a 82MM MAF, you will want to go with a 3.5" velocity stack and 3.5" piping to match (they tend to be 82-83MM ID), with a reducer going into the TB to promote another venturi effect through the TB. The MAF he linked is the exact same one that I bought and modified for my use. Plastic on it is a bit brittle and you must modify it if you choose to remove the screen, but it is 82MM ID.

For the reducer, couplers, 3.5" velocity stack and 3.5" piping I used vibrant, vibrant, blox and an amazon retailer respectively... all ordered on amazon in 1 shopping cart. The vibrant stuff appears to simply be rebadged or very well replicated SAMCO stuff for cheaper.

Also to add to what he said, another reason people may not gain power with this mod is if they don't have all supporting mods to increase the engine's need to breathe. However, I believe you are at the point where this would be beneficial if done properly.

Last edited by sparks03max; Feb 8, 2011 at 08:11 PM.
Old Feb 8, 2011 | 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sparks03max
For the reducer, couplers, 3.5" velocity stack and 3.5" piping I used vibrant, vibrant, blox and an amazon retailer respectively... all ordered on amazon in 1 shopping cart. The vibrant stuff appears to simply be rebadged or very well replicated SAMCO stuff for cheaper.
What was the total approximate cost? How many couplers/clamps/etc?
Old Feb 8, 2011 | 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MoncefA33
What was the total approximate cost? How many couplers/clamps/etc?
pennies!!!!!!
Old Feb 8, 2011 | 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MoncefA33
What was the total approximate cost? How many couplers/clamps/etc?
The vibrant stuff comes with clamps. I can link the individual components. The entire intake all said and done with shipping probably came out to ~$150 including the MAF adapter.

--Vibrant 3.5" to 3" reducer in black
--Couldn't find the blox 3.5" on there any more, but there are other companies that sell them made of composite... then you have Vibrant 3.5" velocity stack aluminum
--For couplers I used 2x of these Vibrant 3.5" couplers + clamps
--Another coupler option is to get your own clamps and just buy this and cut your own couplers (could probably make 4-5 out of this) OBX 12" long coupler material 3.5" ID
--For the 3.5" aluminum piping, I bought one of these and used it for both the intake manifold elbow on my custom plenum box and the intake itself. 3.5" aluminum piping 180 degree bend
Old Feb 8, 2011 | 08:08 PM
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Old Feb 8, 2011 | 09:27 PM
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You guys are awesome!!! Remind me to buy both of you lunch if I ever meet you guys in person!!
Old Feb 8, 2011 | 09:29 PM
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Btw is there any power lost or gained by just hooking the maf tube up to the throttle body? That's how I have it now. Or should it be longer than that?
Old Feb 8, 2011 | 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by viperboy
Btw is there any power lost or gained by just hooking the maf tube up to the throttle body? That's how I have it now. Or should it be longer than that?
Mine is coupled straight to the throttle body. I suppose it's possible that could introduce a bit of turbulence near the maf sensor, but haven't had any problems.
Old Feb 8, 2011 | 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by viperboy
Btw is there any power lost or gained by just hooking the maf tube up to the throttle body? That's how I have it now. Or should it be longer than that?
For the most peak power that's the way to go. Some say that if you retain the stock helmholtz resonator, the powerband will be smoother. On the other hand, fck dat.
Old Feb 8, 2011 | 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MoncefA33
For the most peak power that's the way to go. Some say that if you retain the stock helmholtz resonator, the powerband will be smoother. On the other hand, fck dat.
There are some pretty useful formulas out there that can be used to roughly determine the resonant frequency of an intake pipe and you can actually tune the length to whatever RPM range you want the intake to give a slight bump to for 200-300 RPMs. I believe my calculations came out to around 26" total with 3.5" pipe (including elbow, TB, and MAF) to the edge of the velocity stack to see a boost around 6000-6500 RPMs. Will play with length some on a dyno later this spring to get specific. This concept is what causes the "AEM hump" often seen on honda dynos for a few hundred RPMs in the 4000 rpm range when using the AEM CAI.

Of course if you don't want to get all scientific about it, shorter is generally better. Although I have seen good results with my long "SRI" that sits right behind the headlight.
Old Feb 9, 2011 | 12:07 AM
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You'll save pennies buying your Vibrant stuff from:
http://www.sportcompactwarehouse.com.../i-165067.aspx
Old Feb 9, 2011 | 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by CMax03
You'll save pennies buying your Vibrant stuff from:
http://www.sportcompactwarehouse.com.../i-165067.aspx
The one I linked on amazon is 6" inlet, 3.5" outlet that can be used with a normal AEM dry flow filter. Unless I'm reading it wrong, it looks like the only 3.5" available from what you linked is a 7" inlet. Even if you still had to get the 3.5"x6" from amazon, they seem to have better prices on some other vibrant stuff, nice find. The couplers still appear to be cheaper on amazon, now that I search on that site and look around.

Last edited by sparks03max; Feb 9, 2011 at 06:19 AM.
Old Feb 9, 2011 | 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by sparks03max
The one I linked on amazon is 6" inlet, 3.5" outlet that can be used with a normal AEM dry flow filter. Unless I'm reading it wrong, it looks like the only 3.5" available from what you linked is a 7" inlet. Even if you still had to get the 3.5"x6" from amazon, they seem to have better prices on the other vibrant stuff, nice find.
Forgive me, I believe this goes inside of the air filter right? I have a filter from autozone but I think the hole only goes up to 4", it has rubber coupler-like things inside of it that take it to a smaller size. I guess I have to order a filter that has a 6" or 7" opening, huh?
Old Feb 9, 2011 | 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by viperboy
Forgive me, I believe this goes inside of the air filter right? I have a filter from autozone but I think the hole only goes up to 4", it has rubber coupler-like things inside of it that take it to a smaller size. I guess I have to order a filter that has a 6" or 7" opening, huh?
You want something like this. 6" is the most common inlet for the larger filters.

http://www.amazon.com/AEM-21-209EDK-...7261245&sr=1-1
Old Feb 9, 2011 | 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sparks03max
You want something like this. 6" is the most common inlet for the larger filters.

http://www.amazon.com/AEM-21-209EDK-...7261245&sr=1-1
Thanks again! I guess I will get that, the couplers, reducers, and stack from what you posted. I am just waiting to grab my wideband on Friday and a buddy of mine is gonna help me install it. I'm scared when it comes to wiring things lol Once it's in and working, I'll grab this stuff.

EDIT: Good prices here on the velocity stack, but I guess Blox just doesn't make 3.5 anymore...

http://www.jhpusa.com/store/pc/viewP...1&idcategory=0
Old Feb 9, 2011 | 06:36 AM
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I actually got my couplers from these guys because I already have tons of clamps... Cheaper and better quality, these are 4 ply instead of the single ply vibrant ones. (not that it matters on non-forced induction applications)

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/produ...730f872ebac30f

You could also check out BPI for a composite 3.5"

Last edited by sparks03max; Feb 9, 2011 at 06:39 AM.
Old Feb 9, 2011 | 11:29 AM
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I've used both 82mm & 76.2mm and I see no difference in either, and the global scaling of the SAFCII (in your case, the NEO) wasn't affected (AFR) by the change of either sensor housing.

Last edited by NmexMAX; Feb 9, 2011 at 11:33 AM.
Old Feb 9, 2011 | 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by NmexMAX
I've used both 82mm & 76.2mm and I see no difference in either, and the global scaling of the SAFCII (in your case, the NEO) wasn't affected (AFR) by the change of either sensor housing.
Don't tell me your 82MM maf didn't make a difference... That's like 3 feet vs 3 inches!

Last edited by NmexMAX; Feb 9, 2011 at 11:46 AM.
Old Feb 9, 2011 | 11:46 AM
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ninja
Old Feb 9, 2011 | 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by NmexMAX
ninja
I see what you did there
Old Feb 9, 2011 | 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by sparks03max
There are some pretty useful formulas out there that can be used to roughly determine the resonant frequency of an intake pipe and you can actually tune the length to whatever RPM range blah blah blah...

Of course if you don't want to get all scientific about it, shorter is generally better. Although I have seen good results with my long "SRI" that sits right behind the headlight.
You should PM/post more details on this, for I would like to get more scientific.
Old Feb 9, 2011 | 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MoncefA33
You should PM/post more details on this, for I would like to get more scientific.
Acoustic resonance:

Sounds are waves in the air, specifically longitudinal waves. These type of waves cause pressure waves (90 degrees
out of phase with wave itself) that are directly proportional in strength to the amplitude of the sound wave. It is
possible to utilize this effect to increase intake air pressures within the intake tube. In most instances the
amplitude of a sound wave is not that large. During resonance however the sound wave amplitude becomes much larger
(and so does the pressure wave following it). During this resonance it is possible to gain significant amounts of
torque and actually create positive manifold pressure (above 1 atm). This effect is sometimes called the AEM HUMP,
where power spikes ~10hp for a couple hundred RPM around 4500 RPM in their cold air intakes. The resonance frequency
of a pipe depends on the length and the diameter of the tube.

Fn= n (v/4L)

n = wave number, v = velocity of sound (~340m/s), L length of pipe
Note: v the speed of sound changes with temperature.

The diameter of a pipe has a small effect on the resonance frequency as well. The sound wave behavior remains consistent
with that of a pipe for ~.6 times the diameter (D). So

Fn= n (v)
___________
4(L+.6(D))

For a 1-meter intake pipe this translates into a resonance frequency of 85 hz or 5100 RPM. The intake pipe reaches
resonance frequency when the driving force of the system (the engine) is also at that frequency. This is RPM/60;
rotations per second.
From http://www.ftlracing.com/tech/engine/intake.html
Old Feb 14, 2011 | 05:55 PM
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Here is the super short version of the 3.5" intake that I"ll be testing against a "length tuned" version. The coupler on the left is a 3.5>3" reducer and goes straight onto the TB. The other end is where the filter clamps on!

Old Apr 23, 2011 | 07:16 AM
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Ok, I'm finally ordering everything. Anyone have any input on the dryflow cover they make for the filters? Worth it or not?

EDIT: Any of these MAF tubes will do?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Land-...ht_6062wt_1165

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-M...ht_1725wt_1165

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MASS-...ht_2182wt_1165

Last edited by viperboy; Apr 23, 2011 at 07:22 AM.
Old Apr 23, 2011 | 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by viperboy
Ok, I'm finally ordering everything. Anyone have any input on the dryflow cover they make for the filters? Worth it or not?

EDIT: Any of these MAF tubes will do?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Land-...ht_6062wt_1165

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-M...ht_1725wt_1165

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MASS-...ht_2182wt_1165
No. They need to be the 05-06 and compatible with bimmers.
Old Apr 24, 2011 | 02:18 PM
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Try one of those R2C dry filters from Cattman....I think the internal support of the AEM dry flow might hender the flow at the edge of the bellmouth.....
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