Nexus67

iTrader: (23)

QFT

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Must be all the Merrell bends. And don't you mean 3" ID

maxspeed96CT

iTrader: (9)

What are you use to do the timing advance on a 00-01?

Clashez

iTrader: (5)

Yea 3'' ID , your never going to let up on the mandrell bent thing are ya

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Knight_yyz did it with a program on his laptop, I will not profess to know exactly how he did it, but I can't see why the different engine should make a difference, it's not like an Engine specific modification.

Nope

Clashez

iTrader: (5)

you love the twin loop, I Know u do and all it's Merrell bends

schmellyfart

iTrader: (46)

Responses in red.

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

Fine.

It's been proven on every motor except the VE's (Maybe Aaron used a 3" on his setup?? I never looked into VE's, never interested in them....) that the Nissan V6 responds well to a 3" piping, Z guys have known this since the inception of the VG30E back in the day.

So with us having a way better designed motor from the ground up not see benefits from a 3".... We have a higher VE than the VG30E's so it'd be silly to put anything on the car (in terms of performance) less than 3".

Honestly I was short with you because if you have to ask the question then you really shouldn't be that interested in the performance of your car and just stick with a stock exhaust and replace the muffler, get nearly the same sound, because nissan did do some magical work with their stock Y-pipe, quite more efficent then other similar setups of it's age.

I found out my answer because of my research outside of Maxima.org, it may come as a shock to you but all engines run off of the same principle... Get air, add fuel, ignite the fuel and release the exhaust... Engines are big air pumps, so when you can not find the answer to your performance problem on the limited resources here... Think outside of the box.... Go find another similar motor (TONS OF THEM) and see what they have done... We're not inventing the wheel here... Everything we have done/are doing/will do has ALREADY been done.

So get a 3" if you want the most power out of your motor, any less is holding it back in every way imaginable, k? done.

Please no more silly losing low end nonsense, we don't own overhead valve V8 motors, we flow quite a bit more air then they do especially for our displacement.

tcb_02_max

iTrader: (5)

I just ordered what I think was the second-to-the-last 3" Cattman for the 00-03. There might still be one available. While I realize I have a VQ35DE (with headers +fastcat), and you a DE-K, I am also concerned about it being too loud. With that in mind (at least for long trips), I picked up a G35 sedan muffler to have custom-fit to the rear-section slip-joint. I will have them mandrel bend a 3" pipe, even though the muffler is only 2.5" inlet. A relatively quick muffler swap should then be feasable, or at least so goes the theory.

Eventually I will also dyno both setups to find out how much less power my "quiet" setup has. Just my $.02...

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

Headers, fast-cat, cattman 3.0" cat-back and a G35 muffler... that reads like a pretty awesome exhaust setup. The Infiniti muffler should quiet things down a bit.

Ever since Brian's announcement a few days ago, there's a sense of urgency on the Org about snapping up the last Cattman products. Although I already have two Cattman exhaust parts, I'm a little jealous of people getting in on the last set of headers and 3.0" cat-backs; (incremental upgrades for me, too late in the game).

Anyway, good for you, tcb_02_max.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

From an all out performance standpoint it seems the 3" is the way to go. However, I am looking at more here than just the max output and performance. I actually stated I DON'T want it loud, a concept I think you missed in this thread.

Performance is one of the things I'm quite interested in on this car, but it certainly isn't the only thing. That should be obvious by the amount of appearance and suspension mods I've done prior to any serious performance modifications. The fact is, this is a DE-K, it's not going to be that fast regardless, I just want to make sure I spend my money wisely.

I don't understand some people's inability (not directed at you specifically aackshun) to understand a simple concept that is brought up around here consistantly:

ie. My stock exhaust is rotten/needs to be replaced, OEM is too expensive, I am willing to increase the overall volume of the exhaust for some extra ponies, but I don't want it to sound ricey or too loud (attracting cops/family minded). I also don't want to lose low end power.

This concept gets bashed around here constantly, I don't get it, this isn't a muscle car forum, most of us are older guys with a family, the fact is, there are a LOT of us that would rather stay low-key, but still want to see some performance increase.

Of course, it's not a shock to me that engines are similar, same basic principles, etc, etc, it's insulting to me that you'd say something like that. You are an educated individual, I've noted that from your posts around here. At the same time, clearly you haven't noticed that I'm the guy that overanalizes everything, researches until his eyes bleed, then when I can't come up with solid answers or still want an opinion, I post.

Especially considering the most direct comparison is the Honda Accord V6 5th gen, 3.0l.
There is the closest matchup in performance, displacement, exhaust and intake.
By your theories and comments, this engine should also be great with a 3" exhaust, right? Well the fact is, it sounds terrible with a 3" exhaust, but fine with a 2.5" exhaust.

Also, torque/low end is decreased quite a bit on those engines with a 3" as opposed to a 2.5" (stock engine), that though, I don't have dynos to prove, that is mostly from Honda Tech's I know out West and in Southwestern Ontario, guys that race these things, and only deal with Hondas.


This concept/idea of losing low end power with a large exhaust on a stock motor is not silly nonsense, it's a fact, based on proven calculations, and real life trials, like you said, it's as old as automotive engines themselves, this is not a new concept. Now, if you're saying that there ISN'T any loss on the low end on the VQ30, well then that is news to me, and exactly the information I am looking for. I must ask though, where did you find that out? I have not been able to find that information anywhere. I seriously hope this is true.

Congrats! And you just gave me an incredible idea, fittin the G muffler is an excellent match to the 2.5" EVO2 Greddy catback, thoughts? As I recall, the sedan muffler is the only one that will work on our cars right?

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

While going that route, weld on a decent set of polished tips. The chrome sleeve tips on the G are a particularly tacky detail for an otherwise fantastic car.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Yes, truthfully I'd like to find a good stainless muffler, something like the old Frankencar muffler, that would give me a sound comparable to the G35 muffler.

T_Behr904

This is some good reading. Where's my coffee? Ahh, here it is!

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

You rarely catch a glimpse of the actual muffler body, whereas you always see the tips. Just saying, for perspective.

The Frankencar muffler & tips were a beautiful thing, but super silent and very restrictive. The value in the Frankencar cat-back was in the pipes and the appearance. Performance, not so much.

There was a moment at last year's Maxus, where there was a small group of people near my car and, Byrdman164's car (who has/had the old Frankencar muffler). We were revving our respective cars and having a conversation with Brian Catt's about exhausts. It was kind of enlightening. (And a high-point for me at Maxus2010, which was mostly a lame experience.)

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

A very good point. I would just install tips on my AE muffler, but the inlet is only 2.25" IIRC, so the G35 would be much better suited to a Greddy 2.5" catback. I guess i need to go junkyard shopping.

Clashez

iTrader: (5)

This set-up is very much like the Frankencar muffler. I got a freind that runs this with obx headers purs smooth
2000-2003 MAXIMA CATBACK SRS TYPE-RE EXHAUST $329.99
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAXIM...item3361c337e9

OBX Cat back Exhaust System 00-03 Nissan Maxima US $229.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-C...item2566c66940

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

If the muffler body isn't polished SS, then perhaps some black hi-temp, black paint would look good on it, contrasted with the polished tips.

Clashez

iTrader: (5)

TunerMaxima3000 Have you thought about just going to a muffler shop and having them put one togethier with a muffler of your chose from flea-bay

order 4 Mandrel U Bends 2.5 or 3'' what ever wets your whistle, A muffler of your chose you can have an exhast shop tailer make you cat-back..... like me

but if your going to go 2.5 i would just order 1 of the set-up from my other post

Stay tooned for my next thread how to build your own Mandrel bent 3'' cat-back , lots of pic's video and more

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

For the most part. Just about every thread has it's share of unwanted nonsense, both on- and off-topic. However, most of Tuner's threads are chock full of interesting information, thorough research and great pictures.

An unintentional word-choice with spot-on accuracy. I enjoyed that.

schmellyfart

iTrader: (46)

Go read through the 4th gen cattman 3" thread if you don't believe us.

I'm outta here.

maxspeed96CT

iTrader: (9)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news , but a 3" catback isnt going to give a bolt on 3.0 nissan any more HP then a 2.5 catback would.

A 3" is plenty for 400+ WHP 5.7 LS1 cars, its overkill for a maxima with a ebay intake and a y-pipe like 97% of the owners on here have.

All your going to get is more noise and drone.

If your boosted or have some serious motor work then 3" will make a differance, other wise your waisting your time and money.

T_Behr904

I remember reading somewhere in one of Cattman's posts about using the 3" exhaust on a 3.0 De-K. He said it would be beneficial if the engine had alot of mods, such as cams, tune, etc., not just your basic bolt-on's.

Clashez

iTrader: (5)

:matt93se: slow 4th gener

Clashez

iTrader: (5)

I read the same thing i think it was about the vq30de tho

Rods03Max619

iTrader: (5)

Good Finds and Good Prices..

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

Ok it seems to me as if you want the impossible, like CMax03, best performance with whisper quietness, the only thing you can do is get the 3" and do the cone inserts like he's talked about.

On top of that, I will give you a bit of advice that isn't on this forum since you don't quite believe in the concept of researching outside of maxima.org.

Adding metal to the exhaust. Look at BMW's stock exhaust systems. There's random sections of added different elements of metal that way the exhaust can not drone at all because the motor will never make the perfect frequency to vibrate the whole thing causing "drone".

With my current setup (and pretty much anything like it with equal length headers/hi-flo cat/catback) it get the cattman drone between 2100-2600rpms where it's just straight "BUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" througout the rear of the cabin.

If I wasn't interested in shaving off as many lbs as possible I would have done the thing I suggested, but I just either drive 60 or 78mph on the highway so I don't have to hear it.

I'm glad NMEMEMEMEMEMEMexMax did this for me, according to this graph I have lost low end, but my setups have been quite wierd throughout my 4th gen's ownership, so I can't compare my expierience to most.

But I was wrong in previous post, Compared to a 2.5 I have lost low end, but with my lightened flywheel I'm not below 3600 @ the track so 2.5" 30DE's only see tailights from me off the line



NMEMEMEMEME needs to confirm this but this is another VQ30DE with Cattman Headers, Cattman Fast Cat, Cattman 2.5" vs my OBX 3.5 Headers, High Flow Cat, Cattman 3".

Run that by me again????

T_Behr904

I like that Too bad the shirt isn't tighter fitting!

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Wow that's actually really, really tempting,thanks I'm gonna message them to see what shipping is to Canada.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Hmmm great idea John

Yes I have, this was the route I was going to go on my 4th gen, but I don't have the time to get into that these days. I could never pay someone to do it, I'm able to do it myself. I can however justify a complete cat-back system for the right price.

Besides, a good muffler will cost enough money to make the wholething a moot point. living in Canada has it's disadvantages

^ these are some of the millions of opinions that are on the other side of the "go big or go home" fence. This is why I thought it was a reasonable question to ask, even though I've researched the crap out of it, it's been near impossible to come to a solid conclusion, and I've been unable to find any dyno sheets.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

You guys have the wrong impression. My 'retort' if you want to call it that, was simply because I felt insulted by aackshun, who implied that I don't know what I'm talking about and that I haven't researched.

Like I said above, I've researched, and many other places than the org man, just as you have. The thing is, I didn't find any conclusive evidence that would say, a 3" is better than a 2.5" for my application. Let alone any evidence that it's worth the added cost and noise.

Now that dyno sheet, if it's a comparison as you say, is extremely useful to see, thanks so much for posting that man! Because you've clearly found more info in this regard than I have, care to drop the misconception that I'm a blundering idiot, and I'll drop the misconception that you posted without really reading my thread, and then you can just share some of the research and hard facts that you've found that brought you to the 3" conclusion?

Oh and I have to note, by that dyno, I would say that the 2.5" vs. 3" on the VQ30DE-K is still a very viable argument. Despite higher overall numbers with your setup, I see drastic low-end power loss on that dyno.

maxspeed96CT

iTrader: (9)

Looks to me like your comparing two different cars instead of back to back run of 2.5" vs 3.0" , which is realy apples to oranges. You can take two stock maximas run them back to back and chances are one will make more Hp then the other. Its just how it is.

And if your comparing numbers done on two diffrent dynos , then all of your comparisions can be used as toilet paper and nothing more.. Because even with the correction factor all machines are calibrated slightly different and no two are exactly alike .

So long story short you did nothing but spend more money

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I guess your right, because of the epic differences in two dynojets can lead to such a big difference of 5whp and 11 ft/lbs, even with different shaped curves too! guess I spent all that money for nothing

It could also because my maxima is the JDM spec model which comes with 5whp and 11 ft/lbs more too, guess my 3" is just a hunk a junk.

maxspeed96CT

iTrader: (9)

Please leave and dont come back, your comparing 2 diffrent dyno jets, 2 diffrent maximas in two different parts of the country.... do I need to continue?

I could of made a chart using paint shop and stated the same results lol

T_Behr904

I can see how a De-K has the potential to make more power with a 3" exhaust, but wouldn't that almost require to have headers and a high flow cat or a test pipe and tune to do it?

I have thought of going 3", but my engine has over 165,000 miles on it, and I would probably want to do a rebuild, raise the compression and get cams for it and a Greddy E-manage ultimate.

With my particular car, all I have as far as engine mods go are a Berk sri with Apexi filter, and a grounding kit. My current exhaust is the factory setup with the resonator deleted. I was thinking about going with a Y-pipe since my 2000 fed spec would eliminate both factory precats, a high flow cat and something like a Megan or BRM 2.5" exhaust. I had thought about 3", but I'm not sure if I would get any significant gains from that over a 2.5" with my current engine mileage and engine mods. At least that's the conclusion I came up with after doing some brainstorming.

tcb_02_max

iTrader: (5)

This.

I actually was planning to paint the muffler high-temp flat black, and am still undecided on the tips. On the one hand, the stock look would keep it low-profile, but I currently have shiny Megan tips right now, so that eye-candy would surely be missed.

If you do decide to go with a G35 muffler, check out g35driver.com - good-condition sedan mufflers show up every once in a while. And fyi the mufflers are 14" long for 03-04 / 16" for 05-06, so the earlier ones are slightly louder.

Clashez

iTrader: (5)

Yea this is the set-up i was going to go with before i decided to do the 3''1/2 cat-back twin loop set-up..

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

Yes please continue maxspeed96ct-sama since you know everything about the VQ that there is to know. You speak with such confidence about the 3" not making power over the 2.5" so I'm quite sure you have had every single setup there is to have on the Maxima and dyno'd and tracked them all, please with your wealth of knowledge and experience take pity on us noobs and take us to school, matter fact since you know so much you can actually make a more accurate chart in paint than a dynojet can of our car's performance......

I mean hell, since I am the only one posting dynographs to back up what I'm saying, I'm sure you can just type really long paragraphs with big words to impress us....

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

LMAO at this.

Oh to clear it up aackshun,are you running the stock DE on that '99? And that was versus a 4th gen with a DE-K or a 5th gen? Just to get the numbers straight, because if that's a VQ30DE with 3" against a VQ30DE-K with a 2.5", then I'm on board for the 3"

Please clear that up.

Thanks man, great info, I'm digging up info on the G35 muffler

maxspeed96CT

iTrader: (9)

It has nothing to do with being a maxima know it all, its just common auto knowledge a good 2.5 exhaust will flow plenty for a 200 Hp 3.0 motor.

Im glad you have fancy dyno comparisons, they are about as usefull as **** on a bull. But if it makes you feel better then cool , but please dont manipulate others ..