2.5" or 3", Please step in
09-04-2011, 06:36 PM
#82
LMAO at this. 
Oh to clear it up aackshun,are you running the stock DE on that '99? And that was versus a 4th gen with a DE-K or a 5th gen? Just to get the numbers straight, because if that's a VQ30DE with 3" against a VQ30DE-K with a 2.5", then I'm on board for the 3"
Please clear that up.
Oh to clear it up aackshun,are you running the stock DE on that '99? And that was versus a 4th gen with a DE-K or a 5th gen? Just to get the numbers straight, because if that's a VQ30DE with 3" against a VQ30DE-K with a 2.5", then I'm on board for the 3"
Please clear that up.
And yes that is my 192k mile (at the time) stock block dyno plenty of info in my sig links.
I can post other comparison graphs with DE-K's but none with 3"
It has nothing to do with being a maxima know it all, its just common auto knowledge a good 2.5 exhaust will flow plenty for a 200 Hp 3.0 motor.
Im glad you have fancy dyno comparisons, they are about as usefull as **** on a bull. But if it makes you feel better then cool , but please dont manipulate others ..
Im glad you have fancy dyno comparisons, they are about as usefull as **** on a bull. But if it makes you feel better then cool , but please dont manipulate others ..
Since this is a hot topic w/ mr. Behr in the hustle thread, the Neo-VVEL SR20s have also the same gains too when goin to 3".
I can go on and on, I'm not going to waste time to post dynographs since they are fancy useless lines to you.
Hrmm.... J-Series motors love 3" catbacks... Same with N/A Supras, N/A VG's as I said before... I can go all day....
And all of these motors have 2.0-3.0L and make around the same power 200whp-240whp....
I've made my point, it's pointless to continue you're just going to say I'm wrong over and over again and not going to back it up with anything, so I'm done with this back and forth, it's getting the OP nowhere.
Back on topic....
You have a DE-K? So you don't have variable cams so your exhaust DB level will not be affected by VCT's. What's scary quiet is a single exit 3" on the J30 motor, very quiet on the low cam but once it hits VTEC it screams
But that's a moot (sp?) point.
What you really want to look into is cone inserts and take a look at stock BMW catbacks, to get rid of done and kill some DB's.
I personally think the car is quiet for what it is, and I am (well was) quite happy with the final results.
Now to my family and friends this is the quietest the car has been in my ownership since I first got it, if you're inside of my house you don't know I'm home until I pull into the driveway and there's a really low deep bass-y grumble, but that's it. It's not louder than the other 3 cars @ our house, the accord has fans you can hear a block away, the diamante has that 3.5 SOHC oil burning hum to it and the equinox has that god awful GM V6 non smooth running tone.
CMax03 has even said my car is very quiet, and he has A LOT of noise concerns especially since he isn't the only driver of his car.
So do what you gotta do man, my point is you're loosing out on some extra HP/TQ by not going 3" and there are ways to get it quiet too.
Or you can just do a 2.5 and be done with it.
Last edited by aackshun; 09-04-2011 at 06:49 PM.
09-04-2011, 07:02 PM
#83
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Both are 4th gen VQ30DE's, I do not know too much about the dyno in question besides of his full cattman exhaust and it's a 30DE.
And yes that is my 192k mile (at the time) stock block dyno plenty of info in my sig links.
I can post other comparison graphs with DE-K's but none with 3"......
................Back on topic....
You have a DE-K? So you don't have variable cams so your exhaust DB level will not be affected by VCT's. What's scary quiet is a single exit 3" on the J30 motor, very quiet on the low cam but once it hits VTEC it screams
But that's a moot (sp?) point.
What you really want to look into is cone inserts and take a look at stock BMW catbacks, to get rid of done and kill some DB's.......
.........So do what you gotta do man, my point is you're loosing out on some extra HP/TQ by not going 3" and there are ways to get it quiet too.
Or you can just do a 2.5 and be done with it.
And yes that is my 192k mile (at the time) stock block dyno plenty of info in my sig links.
I can post other comparison graphs with DE-K's but none with 3"......
................Back on topic....
You have a DE-K? So you don't have variable cams so your exhaust DB level will not be affected by VCT's. What's scary quiet is a single exit 3" on the J30 motor, very quiet on the low cam but once it hits VTEC it screams
But that's a moot (sp?) point.
What you really want to look into is cone inserts and take a look at stock BMW catbacks, to get rid of done and kill some DB's.......
.........So do what you gotta do man, my point is you're loosing out on some extra HP/TQ by not going 3" and there are ways to get it quiet too.
Or you can just do a 2.5 and be done with it.
I'm obviously having trouble with this decision.The idea to just go with the 2.5" off the parked 5.5 is very tempting as well, because even if I do put that one on the road, I know for a fact I'd be getting a 3" for it.....hmmmmm.... let's keep this discussion going, I'm going to keep researching and let it stew over for a bit....
I know I'd have to spend at least $100 to get a decent muffler and tips on the 2.5" Greddy....
Oh, and BTW, those are insane numbers for near-stock DE's, my flywheel rated 227hp DE-K probably puts down substantially less than that.
09-04-2011, 07:04 PM
#84
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PIPING
What size tubing should I get? The most commonly-asked question by far… Short answer: Nissan 4-cylinder engines both function VERY well with 2.5″ exhaust. Many will tell you that a turbo car needs a 3″ exhaust to function properly, to which we say, not necessarily true.
Keep in mind that 2.5″ is a significant increase in size over the stock system, and there are far less bends / restrictions in our system. Unless you’re pushing 400+ hp, or more than 12psi, there’s really no need for 3″. However, we understand that some folks prefer a larger pipe diameter, so if that’s what you want, then we’ll build it for you!
I'm not trying to poke the proverbial hornet's nest with a stick here about the exhaust piping diameter debate, I just happened to come across this while checking out BRM's website. Like I said before, perhaps they haven't done enough dyno testing with 3" exhaust. Or maybe what they said about their particular exhaust does hold true. Different muffler types and styles as well as resonators do have varying degrees of flow from manufacturer to manufacturer. Perhaps brand A's 2.5" cat-back might flow the same or better as brand B's 3" cat-back, or worse.
09-04-2011, 07:14 PM
#85
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An interesting read, and a good impression of what I consider to be true of exhaust systems based on my limited experience and research:
Pulled from a Header information piece, NOT a catback, but same basic principles of exhaust flow apply to quoted portion:
Pulled from a Header information piece, NOT a catback, but same basic principles of exhaust flow apply to quoted portion:
"The concept that maximum power is obtained by zero pressure in the exhaust is only partially true. There should be absolutely no back-pressure from the collector rearward, but the diameter of the system beginning with the exhaust valve is a compromise. The highest efficiency for the system requires a minimum speed for good exhaust gas velocity to insure that gas does not “back up” into the chamber during overlap at low engine speeds, and that the “suction” (negative pressure pulse) effect of a resonant (tuned length) and/or collector (overlapping exhaust pulses) system is optimized.
To predict what primary size will be best for a specific motor, you must know where you want the engine to develop peak torque. If the existing torque peak is at bit lower RPM than you prefer (typical in under-cammed or stock motors), it can be “bumped” a bit by increasing the primary diameter. If the torque peak is too high (motor is “peaky”, with no range and poor recovery from gear changes), the peak can be adjusted down by using a smaller pipe"
To predict what primary size will be best for a specific motor, you must know where you want the engine to develop peak torque. If the existing torque peak is at bit lower RPM than you prefer (typical in under-cammed or stock motors), it can be “bumped” a bit by increasing the primary diameter. If the torque peak is too high (motor is “peaky”, with no range and poor recovery from gear changes), the peak can be adjusted down by using a smaller pipe"
09-04-2011, 07:27 PM
#86
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Oh and Magnaflows very, very simple chart, with no real explainations or other considerations in place:
Tubing Size--------Dual Exhaust--------Single Exhaust
2.00”--------------up to 200 HP---------up to 100 HP
2.25”--------------up to 325 HP---------up to 160 HP
2.50”--------------up to 500 HP---------up to 250 HP
3.00”--------------up to 600 HP----------up to 300 HP
They also dont say if that's BHP or not, but it still seems like the general consensus the exhaust guys come up with are 2.5" is suitable for the DE and DE-K as long as you're not boosted, and probably suitable but not ideal if you are.
I dunno, that's why I started the thread, a lot of people consider it silly to question these things when 'everyone says' to get a 3".... but I'm that guy
. So lets keep the good discussion and plausible evidence, etc, coming!!
Tubing Size--------Dual Exhaust--------Single Exhaust
2.00”--------------up to 200 HP---------up to 100 HP
2.25”--------------up to 325 HP---------up to 160 HP
2.50”--------------up to 500 HP---------up to 250 HP
3.00”--------------up to 600 HP----------up to 300 HP
They also dont say if that's BHP or not, but it still seems like the general consensus the exhaust guys come up with are 2.5" is suitable for the DE and DE-K as long as you're not boosted, and probably suitable but not ideal if you are.
I dunno, that's why I started the thread, a lot of people consider it silly to question these things when 'everyone says' to get a 3".... but I'm that guy
. So lets keep the good discussion and plausible evidence, etc, coming!!
09-04-2011, 07:28 PM
#87
I was just reading BRM exhaust's FAQ about pipe diameter. I'm not sure how extensive their dyno testing has been with 3" exhaust on 4cyl engines because they tend to say something different. Here's a copy and paste directly from that page I just read...
PIPING
What size tubing should I get? The most commonly-asked question by far… Short answer: Nissan 4-cylinder engines both function VERY well with 2.5″ exhaust. Many will tell you that a turbo car needs a 3″ exhaust to function properly, to which we say, not necessarily true.
Keep in mind that 2.5″ is a significant increase in size over the stock system, and there are far less bends / restrictions in our system. Unless you’re pushing 400+ hp, or more than 12psi, there’s really no need for 3″. However, we understand that some folks prefer a larger pipe diameter, so if that’s what you want, then we’ll build it for you!
I'm not trying to poke the proverbial hornet's nest with a stick here about the exhaust piping diameter debate, I just happened to come across this while checking out BRM's website. Like I said before, perhaps they haven't done enough dyno testing with 3" exhaust. Or maybe what they said about their particular exhaust does hold true. Different muffler types and styles as well as resonators do have varying degrees of flow from manufacturer to manufacturer. Perhaps brand A's 2.5" cat-back might flow the same or better as brand B's 3" cat-back, or worse.
PIPING
What size tubing should I get? The most commonly-asked question by far… Short answer: Nissan 4-cylinder engines both function VERY well with 2.5″ exhaust. Many will tell you that a turbo car needs a 3″ exhaust to function properly, to which we say, not necessarily true.
Keep in mind that 2.5″ is a significant increase in size over the stock system, and there are far less bends / restrictions in our system. Unless you’re pushing 400+ hp, or more than 12psi, there’s really no need for 3″. However, we understand that some folks prefer a larger pipe diameter, so if that’s what you want, then we’ll build it for you!
I'm not trying to poke the proverbial hornet's nest with a stick here about the exhaust piping diameter debate, I just happened to come across this while checking out BRM's website. Like I said before, perhaps they haven't done enough dyno testing with 3" exhaust. Or maybe what they said about their particular exhaust does hold true. Different muffler types and styles as well as resonators do have varying degrees of flow from manufacturer to manufacturer. Perhaps brand A's 2.5" cat-back might flow the same or better as brand B's 3" cat-back, or worse.
Thanks for squashing the nonsense, and for the very helpful post, you've got me very interested now. You mentioned you have some comparison graphs you could post? That would be much appreciated I'm obviously having trouble with this decision.
Oh, and BTW, those are insane numbers for near-stock DE's, my flywheel rated 227hp DE-K probably puts down substantially less than that.
I'm obviously having trouble with this decision.Oh, and BTW, those are insane numbers for near-stock DE's, my flywheel rated 227hp DE-K probably puts down substantially less than that.
Oh wait, what's that? I still make more peak TQ.....
And no, after tons of DE-K dynos I still refuse to install the 00VI sitting in my bedroom for other reaons.
09-04-2011, 07:28 PM
#88
Both are 4th gen VQ30DE's, I do not know too much about the dyno in question besides of his full cattman exhaust and it's a 30DE.
And yes that is my 192k mile (at the time) stock block dyno plenty of info in my sig links.
I can post other comparison graphs with DE-K's but none with 3"
Oh please tell that to the K-series honda owners that all have 3" exhaust, because there's more than a enough of conclusive dyno evidence for their 2.0L motors. They loose low end but gain atleast 7whp and 5 ft/lbs in the VTEC high cam. just by going form 2.5 to 3"
Since this is a hot topic w/ mr. Behr in the hustle thread, the Neo-VVEL SR20s have also the same gains too when goin to 3".
I can go on and on, I'm not going to waste time to post dynographs since they are fancy useless lines to you.
Hrmm.... J-Series motors love 3" catbacks... Same with N/A Supras, N/A VG's as I said before... I can go all day....
And all of these motors have 2.0-3.0L and make around the same power 200whp-240whp....
I've made my point, it's pointless to continue you're just going to say I'm wrong over and over again and not going to back it up with anything, so I'm done with this back and forth, it's getting the OP nowhere.
Back on topic....
You have a DE-K? So you don't have variable cams so your exhaust DB level will not be affected by VCT's. What's scary quiet is a single exit 3" on the J30 motor, very quiet on the low cam but once it hits VTEC it screams
But that's a moot (sp?) point.
What you really want to look into is cone inserts and take a look at stock BMW catbacks, to get rid of done and kill some DB's.
I personally think the car is quiet for what it is, and I am (well was) quite happy with the final results.
Now to my family and friends this is the quietest the car has been in my ownership since I first got it, if you're inside of my house you don't know I'm home until I pull into the driveway and there's a really low deep bass-y grumble, but that's it. It's not louder than the other 3 cars @ our house, the accord has fans you can hear a block away, the diamante has that 3.5 SOHC oil burning hum to it and the equinox has that god awful GM V6 non smooth running tone.
CMax03 has even said my car is very quiet, and he has A LOT of noise concerns especially since he isn't the only driver of his car.
So do what you gotta do man, my point is you're loosing out on some extra HP/TQ by not going 3" and there are ways to get it quiet too.
Or you can just do a 2.5 and be done with it.
And yes that is my 192k mile (at the time) stock block dyno plenty of info in my sig links.
I can post other comparison graphs with DE-K's but none with 3"
Oh please tell that to the K-series honda owners that all have 3" exhaust, because there's more than a enough of conclusive dyno evidence for their 2.0L motors. They loose low end but gain atleast 7whp and 5 ft/lbs in the VTEC high cam. just by going form 2.5 to 3"
Since this is a hot topic w/ mr. Behr in the hustle thread, the Neo-VVEL SR20s have also the same gains too when goin to 3".
I can go on and on, I'm not going to waste time to post dynographs since they are fancy useless lines to you.
Hrmm.... J-Series motors love 3" catbacks... Same with N/A Supras, N/A VG's as I said before... I can go all day....
And all of these motors have 2.0-3.0L and make around the same power 200whp-240whp....
I've made my point, it's pointless to continue you're just going to say I'm wrong over and over again and not going to back it up with anything, so I'm done with this back and forth, it's getting the OP nowhere.
Back on topic....
You have a DE-K? So you don't have variable cams so your exhaust DB level will not be affected by VCT's. What's scary quiet is a single exit 3" on the J30 motor, very quiet on the low cam but once it hits VTEC it screams
But that's a moot (sp?) point.
What you really want to look into is cone inserts and take a look at stock BMW catbacks, to get rid of done and kill some DB's.
I personally think the car is quiet for what it is, and I am (well was) quite happy with the final results.
Now to my family and friends this is the quietest the car has been in my ownership since I first got it, if you're inside of my house you don't know I'm home until I pull into the driveway and there's a really low deep bass-y grumble, but that's it. It's not louder than the other 3 cars @ our house, the accord has fans you can hear a block away, the diamante has that 3.5 SOHC oil burning hum to it and the equinox has that god awful GM V6 non smooth running tone.
CMax03 has even said my car is very quiet, and he has A LOT of noise concerns especially since he isn't the only driver of his car.
So do what you gotta do man, my point is you're loosing out on some extra HP/TQ by not going 3" and there are ways to get it quiet too.
Or you can just do a 2.5 and be done with it.
Now your just rambling B.S. , because your comparison is useless. And you just keep trying to justify your 3" but you seem like a internet mechanic that realy doesnt know jack **** about cars, but knows how to search youtube.
This post below sums it all up. Thanks
I was just reading BRM exhaust's FAQ about pipe diameter. I'm not sure how extensive their dyno testing has been with 3" exhaust on 4cyl engines because they tend to say something different. Here's a copy and paste directly from that page I just read...
PIPING
What size tubing should I get? The most commonly-asked question by far… Short answer: Nissan 4-cylinder engines both function VERY well with 2.5″ exhaust. Many will tell you that a turbo car needs a 3″ exhaust to function properly, to which we say, not necessarily true.
Keep in mind that 2.5″ is a significant increase in size over the stock system, and there are far less bends / restrictions in our system. Unless you’re pushing 400+ hp, or more than 12psi, there’s really no need for 3″. However, we understand that some folks prefer a larger pipe diameter, so if that’s what you want, then we’ll build it for you!
I'm not trying to poke the proverbial hornet's nest with a stick here about the exhaust piping diameter debate, I just happened to come across this while checking out BRM's website. Like I said before, perhaps they haven't done enough dyno testing with 3" exhaust. Or maybe what they said about their particular exhaust does hold true. Different muffler types and styles as well as resonators do have varying degrees of flow from manufacturer to manufacturer. Perhaps brand A's 2.5" cat-back might flow the same or better as brand B's 3" cat-back, or worse.
PIPING
What size tubing should I get? The most commonly-asked question by far… Short answer: Nissan 4-cylinder engines both function VERY well with 2.5″ exhaust. Many will tell you that a turbo car needs a 3″ exhaust to function properly, to which we say, not necessarily true.
Keep in mind that 2.5″ is a significant increase in size over the stock system, and there are far less bends / restrictions in our system. Unless you’re pushing 400+ hp, or more than 12psi, there’s really no need for 3″. However, we understand that some folks prefer a larger pipe diameter, so if that’s what you want, then we’ll build it for you!
I'm not trying to poke the proverbial hornet's nest with a stick here about the exhaust piping diameter debate, I just happened to come across this while checking out BRM's website. Like I said before, perhaps they haven't done enough dyno testing with 3" exhaust. Or maybe what they said about their particular exhaust does hold true. Different muffler types and styles as well as resonators do have varying degrees of flow from manufacturer to manufacturer. Perhaps brand A's 2.5" cat-back might flow the same or better as brand B's 3" cat-back, or worse.
Last edited by maxspeed96CT; 09-04-2011 at 07:32 PM.
09-04-2011, 07:36 PM
#90
That's cool, say what you want, do what you do, I will gladly wager that a 2.5" will make me dyno like the first graph I posted.
09-04-2011, 07:40 PM
#91
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This is something to consider of course, having a silly small shop build you a 3" or buying a cattman 2.5" may net you the same gains.
Here's two different dynos, I have no idea of each setup, again need to ask nmex what he did.... One of me raping a DE-K in the TQ dept and one of a DE-K raping me in the low end TQ dept.
Oh wait, what's that? I still make more peak TQ.....
Wrd
And no, after tons of DE-K dynos I still refuse to install the 00VI sitting in my bedroom for other reaons.
Here's two different dynos, I have no idea of each setup, again need to ask nmex what he did.... One of me raping a DE-K in the TQ dept and one of a DE-K raping me in the low end TQ dept.
Oh wait, what's that? I still make more peak TQ.....
Wrd
And no, after tons of DE-K dynos I still refuse to install the 00VI sitting in my bedroom for other reaons.
But I bet that kick in the Levi's around 4.5k is one hell of a ride, and makes you forget all about the dip at 3k
Last edited by TunerMaxima3000; 09-04-2011 at 07:42 PM.
09-04-2011, 07:53 PM
#94
Thanks man! I am not a guy who is great at reading dyno's, but from what I see, you've got a wicked dip in low-end power around 3k, which is where stock maximas usually start really climbing their torque curve. This I have to say is suspect of a large diameter exhaust, although the peak numbers and high RPM numbers are very impressive, the HP peak is out of usable range, and the Torque dip would leave you in catch-up mode on the street. This looks to me like great numbers for the track, but not a DD maybe. This is just my conclusions based on the dyno's I see, like I said, I'm no expert, maybe I'm reading them wrong?
I really want to tune the fck outta this motor and net some silly numbers but that is never going to happen.
Anywho, my point is clear, you understand what you want now so this thread was successful?
And yes they're two different cars, i've posted 3 different cars vs. mine now in this thread.
09-04-2011, 08:15 PM
#96
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The 00VI opens somewhere around the 5k area, and looks like around the 5,500 rpm area the torque drops off quite a bit. If the 00VI is stuck shut, the engine can't breathe through the short runners and the power does fall off alot. My car, for example, completely runs out of oomph in 4th gear just short of the 5,500 mark and won't go any more, so I know that my power valve isn't opening up like it's supposed to.
09-04-2011, 08:18 PM
#97
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I'd take the DE-K's torque on this dyno over yours without even thinking about it. Do you disagree?
Now the HP numbers, I'd have a hard time deciding. You dominate around 4k+, but you're trumped on Torque and Power up to that point.
So it's still up for discussion IMO, although you don't have to contribute any further, you seem to be in a rush to wash your hands of this thread lol.
Wish we had more info on these cars you're running against so we can make a proper comparison without assumptions. Especially when we're talking about 5-15 point differences.
Now the HP numbers, I'd have a hard time deciding. You dominate around 4k+, but you're trumped on Torque and Power up to that point.
So it's still up for discussion IMO, although you don't have to contribute any further, you seem to be in a rush to wash your hands of this thread lol.
Wish we had more info on these cars you're running against so we can make a proper comparison without assumptions. Especially when we're talking about 5-15 point differences.
Last edited by TunerMaxima3000; 09-04-2011 at 08:21 PM.
09-04-2011, 09:21 PM
#98
I'd take the DE-K's torque on this dyno over yours without even thinking about it. Do you disagree?
Now the HP numbers, I'd have a hard time deciding. You dominate around 4k+, but you're trumped on Torque and Power up to that point.
So it's still up for discussion IMO, although you don't have to contribute any further, you seem to be in a rush to wash your hands of this thread lol.
Wish we had more info on these cars you're running against so we can make a proper comparison without assumptions. Especially when we're talking about 5-15 point differences.
Now the HP numbers, I'd have a hard time deciding. You dominate around 4k+, but you're trumped on Torque and Power up to that point.
So it's still up for discussion IMO, although you don't have to contribute any further, you seem to be in a rush to wash your hands of this thread lol.
Wish we had more info on these cars you're running against so we can make a proper comparison without assumptions. Especially when we're talking about 5-15 point differences.
The one you're talking about is obviously tuned, while I am not, I am quite sure I can work out a better curve (even gain back some low end!) with a tune on this motor... Will I ever do that? No, this is as far as the 3.0 goes with me, I'm sure I will do a final dyno before the swap occurs to see if I can reach 200whp un-tuned just for my own personal achievement, waiting for the weather to cool off and do some final exhaust work and intake mods (in preparation for my 3.5) to net that final bump, i'm sure with the other mods I have done I will reach 200whp (without the SAE correction of course) then call it quits with the VQ30.
09-05-2011, 06:40 AM
#99
Just because you dynoed 205 doesnt mean ****, just means you were on a dyno that reads slightly higher then other dyno jets.
09-05-2011, 06:44 AM
#100
I'll make sure to keep dynoing there and keep bragging, cause no one else will ever dyno higher than me because the most reputable dynojet in Houston reads the highest in the country, how lucky for meeeeeeeeee!!!
09-05-2011, 09:10 AM
#101
Aw man, GO ME! I've found the highest reading dynojet of all time!!! Out of every single 4th/5th gen that's hit a dynojet, I've managed to have the one that reads the highest!!! Man I'm so lucky!!!
I'll make sure to keep dynoing there and keep bragging, cause no one else will ever dyno higher than me because the most reputable dynojet in Houston reads the highest in the country, how lucky for meeeeeeeeee!!!
I'll make sure to keep dynoing there and keep bragging, cause no one else will ever dyno higher than me because the most reputable dynojet in Houston reads the highest in the country, how lucky for meeeeeeeeee!!!
Numbers between other dyno's and other cars are really just more like a educated guess.
09-06-2011, 06:02 AM
#103
I didn't read thru the entire thread, but just installedmy 3in cattman w/ ypipe. I love it, not as loud as I thought it wud be. Great rumble, quiet on the xway, no drone.. Need better than cell phone camera to post vids.
09-06-2011, 10:15 PM
#104
the main thing stopping me from 3" is the price. with the 2.5" I can still sort of re-use my stock muffler. With a 3" I would have to buy new hardware(resonator/muffler/etc) if I wanted it fabricated, and the piping itself would be more expensive. Things are a bit more affordable for 2.5" (not by much, but every cent counts) IMO, without a huge difference in power between the two on 3.0 NA (IIRC)
09-07-2011, 08:31 AM
#106
Anybody in here running an eBay exhaust? I'm thinking about buying one of those and hacking off the muffler in favor of a better-looking dual tip muffler. Looking for praise or problems, especially on the issue of the actual piping size as well as long-term issues with rust and etc.
09-07-2011, 11:37 AM
#107
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Posts: 5,548
Anybody in here running an eBay exhaust? I'm thinking about buying one of those and hacking off the muffler in favor of a better-looking dual tip muffler. Looking for praise or problems, especially on the issue of the actual piping size as well as long-term issues with rust and etc.
I then asked about the actual price they could offer, as well as asked about the quality of the product, if it's REAL T-304 or just coated, and what type of flanges and welding is used.
I have not received a response after asking some real questions.
To me, that means stay away, but that's just my 'feeling' with the one company I messaged.
As most people know, the piping is fairly generic, as long as it's real, you're getting the same from one company as the other pretty much. Anything Mandrel bent will have to be thick enough, so you don't have to worry about them using thinner pipe than the competition.
The main issues with cheap exhausts from my research:
1. Cheap mufflers
2. Fake Stainless (coated)
3. Cheap flanges
4. Poor welding, dissimilar metals mating up (muffler to piping, piping to flanges)
It's not the piping that rusts, it's the welds and flanges, if they don't spend the money on the flanges, and the welding, then buying $$ pipe is a waste of money. In my experience, you can't buy a good $$ catback for less than $500, because the materials to do it properly will cost you in the $200-400 range, without a muffler.
09-07-2011, 11:45 AM
#108
^Interesting, did they give you a number on what the lower price would be?
I've also heard that about the "true" stainless steel versus the cheap-o route many of these companies take. I messaged a seller about the diameter of the exhaust piping for one of the eBay ones and I have yet to get a response. I heard that although their exhausts say they're 2.5 inches, they're actually 2.25 inches, same as stock piping.
The more I'm looking at it the more I'm thinking picking up a used Megan Racing catback off somebody on the forums is a good idea. I have a bunch of money coming in for my birthday this weekend and I think that's what it will go towards.
I've also heard that about the "true" stainless steel versus the cheap-o route many of these companies take. I messaged a seller about the diameter of the exhaust piping for one of the eBay ones and I have yet to get a response. I heard that although their exhausts say they're 2.5 inches, they're actually 2.25 inches, same as stock piping.
The more I'm looking at it the more I'm thinking picking up a used Megan Racing catback off somebody on the forums is a good idea. I have a bunch of money coming in for my birthday this weekend and I think that's what it will go towards.
09-07-2011, 12:07 PM
#109
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,548
^Interesting, did they give you a number on what the lower price would be?
I've also heard that about the "true" stainless steel versus the cheap-o route many of these companies take. I messaged a seller about the diameter of the exhaust piping for one of the eBay ones and I have yet to get a response. I heard that although their exhausts say they're 2.5 inches, they're actually 2.25 inches, same as stock piping.
The more I'm looking at it the more I'm thinking picking up a used Megan Racing catback off somebody on the forums is a good idea. I have a bunch of money coming in for my birthday this weekend and I think that's what it will go towards.
I've also heard that about the "true" stainless steel versus the cheap-o route many of these companies take. I messaged a seller about the diameter of the exhaust piping for one of the eBay ones and I have yet to get a response. I heard that although their exhausts say they're 2.5 inches, they're actually 2.25 inches, same as stock piping.
The more I'm looking at it the more I'm thinking picking up a used Megan Racing catback off somebody on the forums is a good idea. I have a bunch of money coming in for my birthday this weekend and I think that's what it will go towards.
Megan's a good exhaust from what I've researched, although due to my brothers HORRIBLE experience with everything made by them on this 240sx, I'm sceptical of the quality. They've got a decent rep though.
09-07-2011, 02:14 PM
#112
Torquless dyno is that of an I/Y/E power rod removed DEK.
The nice heavy torque curved one is IIRC is a bolted DEK, with I/H/E (2.5)
The very comparable one in terms of values/curve (both dive after 5.5k or so) is a 4th gen w/ Cattman Gen I's headers and a greddy muffler only.
Again, no argument should be here, if you want the absolute most power, I would go with a 3". Also, the DEK gives better opportunity for better high RPM power, a place where headers, 3" exhaust, and a DEK manifold would compliment each other VERY well.
And we can go back and forth all day. I still say get the 3". I would give my reasons but I have a 3.5L, so some would account them as being inaccurate comparison.
09-08-2011, 07:04 AM
#113
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 15
I inquired with one of the links for the 2.5" that Clashez posted above, they responded saying they could do a lower price for me because I'm on the forums.
I then asked about the actual price they could offer, as well as asked about the quality of the product, if it's REAL T-304 or just coated, and what type of flanges and welding is used.
I have not received a response after asking some real questions.
To me, that means stay away, but that's just my 'feeling' with the one company I messaged.
As most people know, the piping is fairly generic, as long as it's real, you're getting the same from one company as the other pretty much. Anything Mandrel bent will have to be thick enough, so you don't have to worry about them using thinner pipe than the competition.
The main issues with cheap exhausts from my research:
1. Cheap mufflers
2. Fake Stainless (coated)
3. Cheap flanges
4. Poor welding, dissimilar metals mating up (muffler to piping, piping to flanges)
It's not the piping that rusts, it's the welds and flanges, if they don't spend the money on the flanges, and the welding, then buying $$ pipe is a waste of money. In my experience, you can't buy a good $$ catback for less than $500, because the materials to do it properly will cost you in the $200-400 range, without a muffler.
I then asked about the actual price they could offer, as well as asked about the quality of the product, if it's REAL T-304 or just coated, and what type of flanges and welding is used.
I have not received a response after asking some real questions.
To me, that means stay away, but that's just my 'feeling' with the one company I messaged.
As most people know, the piping is fairly generic, as long as it's real, you're getting the same from one company as the other pretty much. Anything Mandrel bent will have to be thick enough, so you don't have to worry about them using thinner pipe than the competition.
The main issues with cheap exhausts from my research:
1. Cheap mufflers
2. Fake Stainless (coated)
3. Cheap flanges
4. Poor welding, dissimilar metals mating up (muffler to piping, piping to flanges)
It's not the piping that rusts, it's the welds and flanges, if they don't spend the money on the flanges, and the welding, then buying $$ pipe is a waste of money. In my experience, you can't buy a good $$ catback for less than $500, because the materials to do it properly will cost you in the $200-400 range, without a muffler.
I've had my 2.5inch Megan OE-RS on since Sept 2010. It lasted 1 Montreal winter without any rust at all. It's a good quality product at half the cost of the Cattman. It came out to around 450 CAD (335 USD + 70 shipping + 40 ish for duty fees). If you want to go cheapo go Megan, if not spend the extra $$ and go for the 2.5inch Cattman. If you go the Megan route, make sure you get hose clamps to tighten it, if not it will rattle like hell.
09-08-2011, 07:20 AM
#114
09-08-2011, 07:28 AM
#115
Anybody in here running an eBay exhaust? I'm thinking about buying one of those and hacking off the muffler in favor of a better-looking dual tip muffler. Looking for praise or problems, especially on the issue of the actual piping size as well as long-term issues with rust and etc.
09-08-2011, 08:19 AM
#116
If you want 3" and want to still stay quiet imo go with the dynomax vt muffler.
I have 2.5" piping with the vt muffler and the car is very quiet even with intake, y-pipe, and test pipe. I had previously tried the megan and to me it was way too loud then I had the stock muffler with same setup and on acceleration it sounded like a dirt bike
Wife ended up getting me the vt muffler for my bday and I couldn't thank her enough, it sounds nice and still quiet.
In the future if I go 3" I'm planning on getting the piping, etc from a reputable company ( cattman, brm) then matching it with the 3" vt muffler but thats just my take on things. If you remember a while back I had a thread about trying to keep my exhaust quiet so I've tried a few things. Hope this helps a bit or maybe it just gives you another option to confuse the hell out of you
I have 2.5" piping with the vt muffler and the car is very quiet even with intake, y-pipe, and test pipe. I had previously tried the megan and to me it was way too loud then I had the stock muffler with same setup and on acceleration it sounded like a dirt bike
Wife ended up getting me the vt muffler for my bday and I couldn't thank her enough, it sounds nice and still quiet.In the future if I go 3" I'm planning on getting the piping, etc from a reputable company ( cattman, brm) then matching it with the 3" vt muffler but thats just my take on things. If you remember a while back I had a thread about trying to keep my exhaust quiet so I've tried a few things. Hope this helps a bit or maybe it just gives you another option to confuse the hell out of you
Last edited by 2000_MAXIMA_KING; 09-08-2011 at 08:31 AM.
09-08-2011, 01:50 PM
#117
Anybody in here running an eBay exhaust? I'm thinking about buying one of those and hacking off the muffler in favor of a better-looking dual tip muffler. Looking for praise or problems, especially on the issue of the actual piping size as well as long-term issues with rust and etc.
But I only did this because I already had the ebay catback on the car from the previous owner. Other wise it wouldn't be worth the hassle just buy the megan.
09-08-2011, 07:24 PM
#118
Bottom line is you need to ask yourself how kinky do I want to get with this little lady?
If you plan on keeping her simple then use the 2.5" you'll have great performance increases - If you're keeping it simple it will likely be better gains than the 3". if you plan on getting real dirty with her, then you need to go with the 3" system. If you order the resonator it helps with the sound, until you upgrade to turbo (which is my current set up).
I will likely add the headers and y-pipe - placing an order tomorrow. It was suggested that adding the JWT cams with a header and Y-Pipe would be a sweet set up for the 3" exhaust. Bear in mind that I have a 2k2 3.5 I'm not exactly sure what you're working with because I didn't pay that much attention - most of the guys here are working with a 3.5.
bottom line - K.I.S.S. with a 2.5 inch or Get Dirty with a 3 inch.
If you plan on keeping her simple then use the 2.5" you'll have great performance increases - If you're keeping it simple it will likely be better gains than the 3". if you plan on getting real dirty with her, then you need to go with the 3" system. If you order the resonator it helps with the sound, until you upgrade to turbo (which is my current set up).
I will likely add the headers and y-pipe - placing an order tomorrow. It was suggested that adding the JWT cams with a header and Y-Pipe would be a sweet set up for the 3" exhaust. Bear in mind that I have a 2k2 3.5 I'm not exactly sure what you're working with because I didn't pay that much attention - most of the guys here are working with a 3.5.
bottom line - K.I.S.S. with a 2.5 inch or Get Dirty with a 3 inch.
09-29-2011, 07:39 PM
#119
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,548
An update. I've sold the 5.5 gen, and the 2.5" Greddy EVO2 exhaust with it.
I've got a guy that is willing to give me his old G35 muffler though, I just have to pay shipping (will still cost me around $80-100 by the time I get it). I'm trying to reason this out, and it took me on a hunt for anyone that's installed a G35 Sedan muffler, I was surprised to hear very little about it, and certainly couldn't find sound clips.
So FYI I've decided a 2.5" is what I want for this car, I just haven't decided on brand yet, I want to just make it myself but time is no longer my friend. In either case I am going to need a muffler, I'm thinking the G Sedan muffler is my best bet?
I've got a guy that is willing to give me his old G35 muffler though, I just have to pay shipping (will still cost me around $80-100 by the time I get it). I'm trying to reason this out, and it took me on a hunt for anyone that's installed a G35 Sedan muffler, I was surprised to hear very little about it, and certainly couldn't find sound clips.
So FYI I've decided a 2.5" is what I want for this car, I just haven't decided on brand yet, I want to just make it myself but time is no longer my friend. In either case I am going to need a muffler, I'm thinking the G Sedan muffler is my best bet?
09-29-2011, 08:02 PM
#120
An update. I've sold the 5.5 gen, and the 2.5" Greddy EVO2 exhaust with it.
I've got a guy that is willing to give me his old G35 muffler though, I just have to pay shipping (will still cost me around $80-100 by the time I get it). I'm trying to reason this out, and it took me on a hunt for anyone that's installed a G35 Sedan muffler, I was surprised to hear very little about it, and certainly couldn't find sound clips.
So FYI I've decided a 2.5" is what I want for this car, I just haven't decided on brand yet, I want to just make it myself but time is no longer my friend. In either case I am going to need a muffler, I'm thinking the G Sedan muffler is my best bet?
I've got a guy that is willing to give me his old G35 muffler though, I just have to pay shipping (will still cost me around $80-100 by the time I get it). I'm trying to reason this out, and it took me on a hunt for anyone that's installed a G35 Sedan muffler, I was surprised to hear very little about it, and certainly couldn't find sound clips.
So FYI I've decided a 2.5" is what I want for this car, I just haven't decided on brand yet, I want to just make it myself but time is no longer my friend. In either case I am going to need a muffler, I'm thinking the G Sedan muffler is my best bet?