berserkerj4

iTrader: (2)

So I've been looking into getting some lowering springs but I've got a few questions. I was trying to compare the spring rates but I couldn't find one for the Eibachs. I'm hoping to go as low as possible but stiffness/ handling is more important to me. Also, I read something about needing to get aftermarket struts when getting stiffer springs. How important is this? Coilovers really aren't an option for me since I'm on a pretty tight budget right now.

Thanks!

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

What you want can only be had with Coilovers. If money is tight, then wait until it's not.

You may want to do some more research on the subject in the Suspension forum, or, search for threads started by irish44j and housecor, among others, but from what they 2 aforementioned members have posted, I'm sure you can find some other links as well as other knowledgeable members.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

^ What he said

7speed

So basically if your just trying to get lowered on stock struts, then you have to do a mild drop or you will probably blow them out. Thats why people are saying get the coilovers.

So since your on a budget than spend about $200 on eibach prokits or teins h springs.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

When you do it right, you get Illuminas or something similar and springs.

BUT that combo cost upwards of 500$ w/o install. At that point, coilovers look more within reach.

Had I done my suspension later in the Maxima world (did them like 5 years ago) I would have gone w/ coilovers... Hell, I still might just do that.

berserkerj4

iTrader: (2)

Alright, well I'll install whatever I get myself so that will save some money. Thanks for the info guys.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

http://www.shiftice.com/strut_install.html
http://www.shiftice.com/spring_strut_decision.html

cjandura

iTrader: (3)

Everyone here that is suggesting coilovers to you are correct.Look at it like this by the time you spend $300-$500 on struts then purchase the Mounts,Bellows and etc. your going to be in the coilover price range.and just my personal suggestion do not get Tein S-Tech springs just because you want that drop. i had tried 2 different struts with those springs and the struts just could not take the abuse and i ended up going coilovers.

Prophecy99

iTrader: (1)

+8

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

For new equipment:

Coilovers: $800 - $1500
Springs and struts (accessory parts included): $500 to $800

Both require installation.

There IS room to save money with springs/struts.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

1. Safety
2. Performance
3. Looks

If you're priorities are somehow flipped in the other direction, then you need to start over with a different car, or find a more realistic hobby.

/oldmanrant

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

My car is dumped on the floor with the frame rails sparking when I drive.

Am I doing it right?

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

You're doing fine, DJ.

But only because you can actually fix the things you break.

berserkerj4

iTrader: (2)

Exactly! I don't enjoy having to worry about wrecking at Deals Gap! Safety then performance are on top..but I also want Maxi to look good for Killboy so looks do matter.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Don't get S-Techs of you want safety

Get what I have, Progress/Illumina, popular, yes, played out, maybe, better combo out there, not IMO.

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

^ I do agree. Lowest you should go on springs.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I had S-Techs up front and Progress rear for a while. Wow.. front was crazy bad

Even after I trimmed the bumpstops, they would hit.

1.) Too low of a drop
2.) Little suspension travel to begin with
3.) Too soft of a spring to handle it.

All those factors give one dynamic, BAD.

nelledge

iTrader: (6)

This gentleman knows what he's saying. Every time I hear the argument, "Coilovers cost almost the same as struts and springs," I cringe. Hundreds of dollars is not almost the same. It's hundreds of dollars. We don't all levy our future on our plastic or make expendable income. Also, when you need to replace your struts right now, waiting to budget another few hundred isn't on the safety agenda. Statistically speaking, mile for mile, coilovers need servicing more often than struts. It's not an upfront cost, but it's one that must be factored in.

All that being said, if I had time to save up the money and an extra ride in the garage for transport during maintenance downtime, I would buy the coilovers.

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

QFT. Not many people realize this.

berserkerj4

iTrader: (2)

Hmm so what I'm getting from this is that it's probably best for me to go with some sort of lowering springs + Illuminas. Might not be for a while but it's not a problem since I did replace OEM struts about 20k ago.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

And that's exactly why I want to put coilovers.

My mileage went from almost 12-15k/year, to less than 1k .. She's garage kept now.

But, as for the subject at hand, when budget is tight, stop modding and take care of the more important things in life.

berserkerj4

iTrader: (2)

Hehe well I don't really have anything "more important" atm. I'm just a poor college student though lol.

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

Just one clarifier here. Your spring determines your strut. Illuminas are great - they're strong, versatile, adjustable. However you don't need to go with Illuminas if you only go for a moderate drop, such as H&R's, or Eibachs. For these two springs, KYB GR-2's will suffice. They're not adjustable but they're more than adequate, and they're HALF the price of Illuminas.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

My next suspension mod is going to be Springs (Eibach) and Struts (KYB GR-2 or Tokico "Blues"). I've read a lot of conflicting info on the .org re: these 2 strut/spring combinations. Can someone PLEASE give me a definitive answer to which strut has the best damping characteristics for better cornering performance with Eibach springs? I'm not interested in ride quality.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

From what I've observed based on Org hearsay, GR2's and Blues are best paired with OEM springs, otherwise their lifespan is adversely affected. Tokico Illumina's are a popular choice with aftermarket springs. And their damping is adjustable. Of course, you're spending a little more, but this seems like the appropriate place to spend just a little more than your current plans.

I'm no expert, and my only direct experience is with Blues and OEM springs, but that's the opinion I've formed on this very basic question. (Best to slip these questions into existing threads, Bob. Good move.)


on that one.

Everyone is interested in ride quality. It's just that "quality" means different things to different people.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

OK, I'll clarify that by saying I don't care if the car rides "stiffer".

But as you say "based on .org hearsay "Blues" and GR-2 should only be used with stock springs." Which I've read, but also all other kinds of conflicting info. I.E. I've read that either can be used with less than 1.5" drop, or that GR-2's are designed to work best with approx 1"-1.5" drop, "Blues" are damped "softer" than GR-2's and vice versa. "Blues are the OEM equivalent to SE struts and GR-2's are equal to GXE struts (which contradicts the GR-2/"Blues" "stiffer/"softer" theory) Believe me, I've searched and looked everywhere for an answer and all I see is subjective opinions. It's VERY frustrating!

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

All you're going to get is subjective info, this is a user forum, not a strut manufacturing laboratory....

The ONLY differentiating information you're going to get is one-off anecdotal experience from single users, or more 'expert' experience from those that have done more than their own vehicle.

Here is my experience based on the countless suspensions I've diagnosed, fixed, installed, experienced.

YES, both Blues and GR-2's are designed as OEM replacements. That being said, there are differences between them that allow the user to vary their application to anything other than OEM.

For example, because Blues are known to be as soft as OEM, many use them to offset the stiffness of Eibachs - with positive results. Or, because KYB's have a stiffer dampening rate, they can handle moderately dropped environments without degrading their lifespan.

So, my 'subjective' advice is this. Rochester, I agree, everyone cares about ride quality. BobPezz if you're certain you want to go with Eibachs which are known to be stiff, you can take EITHER Blues or GR-2's. Why? Because the soft Blues will offset the stiffness of the spring and lead to a comfortable ride. Your tradeoff will be lifespan - which cannot be predicted or measured. They can last 30k miles or 90k miles. Otherwise, if you're willing to deal with a slightly jarring ride, then go with KYB's and they'll likely last longer than Blues.

Oh, and don't forget front Moog mounts and OEM boots (all 4).

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

My Blues are actually softer than the OEM tokico struts on my SE (after 60K miles), but they absorb the bumps so much better. Very noticeably better.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

^ Blues aren't as stiff as the SE struts i dont think, someone correct me if I'm wrong

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

Blues - approximately GLE springs.

GR2 - slightly stiffer than SE.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

"Now THAT'S what I'm talking about!" Thanks for the GREAT info based on extensive EXPERIENCE.

First off, I previously owned a 79 Ford "Bronco" (aptly named) 4x4 with the off road ("Quad" front shocks & F/R sway bars) "handling package". Upgraded with "Rough Country" 2.5" lift kit and rear 3/4" thick "Add-A-Leaf's", essentially increasing 1/2 ton suspension to 1 ton rates. So I can live with a "slightly jarring ride!" That being said, based on your recommendations, I'll go with an "Eibach/GR-2" setup. Since I'm looking for a minimal drop, with improved "body pitch/roll" characteristics. To "tighten up" the IMHO "floaty feeling" OEM suspension. Does this sound like a good plan?

Could you elaborate on the need for OEM boots and Moog mounts (do you mean FSB) if so, that's in the plan with ES FSB bushings.

nelledge

iTrader: (6)

I've got this same set up. I think it's exactly what you're looking for. LMK what pricing you get and I can can compare it to what I paid.

dj is talking about getting Nissan parts for the strut/shock boots. You're wasting your money buying aftermarket because they don't fit well. The Moog mounts he's speaking of are the front strut mounts. I used them and they work great. You can probably forgo the rear shock mounts. I bought new replacements, but they weren't needed. You'll see when you drop them down.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

Exactly right. And look, you did that without all of Bob's air-quotes.

http://www.energysuspensionparts.com...od=MOOG-K90655

Prophecy99

iTrader: (1)

1.7" Front This is good to hear it again in this light, because I allways thought progress springs were too much of a drop for longevity of even illuminas. Like even Corey (shift ice) suspected his progress was a bit too much and as to why his illumina blew... could of been a fluke too
So it's true that C/Os when compared to springs/struts over time need more tlc??
I think you may be thinking of the stiffer SE springs, i'm pretty sure all of the OEM struts are the same

once again a spoonfeeding thread title turning into a somewhat decent thread.
good luck OP and keep us posted on what you do

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the info! This will probably be an after winter project. It doesn't make much sense to beat up new suspension parts on winter roads/potholes. So I'm not going to start pricing things out just yet. But it's at the top of the to do list. Especially after seeing the condition of my rear shocks (top of 1 is mushroomed from the prior owner bottoming out) while installing a RSB. I didn't realize the strut/shock boots didn't come with the new parts. I'll get OEM boots in that case. I'll replace the front mounts and anything else that looks worn out.

LOOK, I replied without air quotes! OK so I used some parenthesis, does that count?

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

Much more read-able.

Buying parts month-over-month during the winter, tossed in the corner for a springtime install... that's good planning.

Clashez

iTrader: (5)

Sprint Spring and Illuminas , Sprints are a 1.8'' drop all around ( some say 2'') they are also an progressive springs and good for driving fast on the twisty road. I had that combo on my 4th gen with blues and never bottomed out. Rode on them for about 3 year without any real problems.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

I noticed that myself! I went really overboard on this mornings post. Maybe too much coffee? Thanks, I try to plan things out. BTW; I checked out the link for the Moog strut mount. When I typed in the search for my 2001 it came up with some pretty neat stuff to improve the suspension. Got me thinking about urethane front/rear control arm bushings, sub-frame mounts and other such things to firm up the undercarriage. I was slightly disappointed that there were no replacement bushings for the rear transverse link, my lower one (drivers side) looked pretty dried out and cracked when I was under there. Best I could do at the time was spray all the link bushings with silicone.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the suggestion. But one of the main reasons I like the Eibach's is that they drop the front 1.4" (probably 1.5" with my 4AT) but only drop the rear 1". I want to get rid of the rear squat look. I think a lower front than rear will help the aerodynamics slightly. It'll get the front lip closer to the ground and increase the rear spoiler's (actually the whole car's) angle of attack for a little more high speed downforce.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

This is what I had come to conclude, thanks for verifying.


No the springs are the same for all models, it's the dampers that are different.

ALL of the springs available for our cars are progressive springs, except SOME coilover setups which use linear springs. This thread is going good, please don't comment on something you know nothing about.