Won't start after clutch job
12-23-2011, 01:30 PM
#1
Won't start after clutch job
So frustrating, I got everything put together, and now it won't start. It cranks over perfectly, but won't fire.
I checked the crank sensor on the bell housing, and It looks like fine. It's hooked up, and I cleaned it too. I used MAF cleaner on it if that makes a difference. The transmission ground is hooked up too. What else could I have disconnected/forgotten?
It's not throwing any codes after cranking. I smell fuel, I can hear the TPS click, I've tried flooring it to put it into flood clear out mode or whatever it's called. It doesn't even act like it wants to fire.
I'm so frustrated right now, anyone have ideas?
03 6MT
I checked the crank sensor on the bell housing, and It looks like fine. It's hooked up, and I cleaned it too. I used MAF cleaner on it if that makes a difference. The transmission ground is hooked up too. What else could I have disconnected/forgotten?
It's not throwing any codes after cranking. I smell fuel, I can hear the TPS click, I've tried flooring it to put it into flood clear out mode or whatever it's called. It doesn't even act like it wants to fire.
I'm so frustrated right now, anyone have ideas?
03 6MT
12-23-2011, 02:07 PM
#4
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: long island, ny
Posts: 98
12-23-2011, 02:37 PM
#6
Aftermarket flywheel? If it is a fidanza you most likely got the timing wrong on the flywheel.
Also the car should fire up if you continue to crank it over since the ecu will use the cam position sensors.
Also the car should fire up if you continue to crank it over since the ecu will use the cam position sensors.
12-23-2011, 02:44 PM
#7
It's possible for the starter to spin just a few RPM's shy of necessary Starting RPM.
12-23-2011, 03:08 PM
#8
just replaced the crank sensor with a new one, didn't make a difference.
It's an OEM flywheel that was just resurfaced. I can look through the crank sensor hole and see the teeth on the flywheel about 1in apart for the crank sensor to pick up.
It's spinning fast, and I've had the car start when it cranked much slower in the cold weather. I also did add that extra ground, which also made no difference.
Is it possible that the flywheel pickup thing got slightly bent? It was never dropped, at least not on my watch.
I did notice, it seems like there should be something on the bell housing to allow the crank sensor to fully seal with that rubber o-ring, but there's nothing there. Did I lose something? Anyone have a picture of theirs I can compare to?
It's an OEM flywheel that was just resurfaced. I can look through the crank sensor hole and see the teeth on the flywheel about 1in apart for the crank sensor to pick up.
It's spinning fast, and I've had the car start when it cranked much slower in the cold weather. I also did add that extra ground, which also made no difference.
Is it possible that the flywheel pickup thing got slightly bent? It was never dropped, at least not on my watch.
I did notice, it seems like there should be something on the bell housing to allow the crank sensor to fully seal with that rubber o-ring, but there's nothing there. Did I lose something? Anyone have a picture of theirs I can compare to?
Last edited by q.man06; 12-23-2011 at 03:11 PM.
12-23-2011, 03:16 PM
#9
OK, so we an rule out the crank sensor being the issue. No matter how long I crank on it, it still won't fire. I think I can rule out grounds as well. What else could cause a no start condition?
12-23-2011, 03:32 PM
#11
I didn't sand it down, might just try running a bigger gauge ground wire to the trans/motor. I got it to fire only slightly, while cranking it acts like it wants to start but doesn't fully. I doesn't get above 400 rpm. So when I get home from work i'll try and get some 4 gauge wire and ground the f*ck out of it and hope for the best.
12-23-2011, 05:01 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 828
good luck bro.. like I said take so fine grit sand paper and go around the housing of the tranny where it meets the motor and the same around the motor where it meets the tranny, also make sure the clutch and fly wheel are properly aligned...
12-23-2011, 05:03 PM
#14
It's possible that the starter is pooched too don't rule that out just cause it's cranking.
Easiest way is to have someone use a jumper cable from the negative terminal to the starter housing. You may want to have someone crank it while you bypass the trigger/solonoid too (sounds like you know how to do that, you seem educated).
This will save you running wires. Make sure they're all clean man, this really sounds like a ground issue.
Other things it could be are a Coolant temp sensor (ECTS), poor engine ground to valve cover, poor engine ground from alternator to frame on right side, CPS, CKPS, but the last two should throw a code.
After repeated cranking it can foul the o2's and plugs so it compounds the problem. I'd let her sit for a bit with the battery disconnected, like overnight if you can. Then go at it tomorrow with fresh grounds
Easiest way is to have someone use a jumper cable from the negative terminal to the starter housing. You may want to have someone crank it while you bypass the trigger/solonoid too (sounds like you know how to do that, you seem educated).
This will save you running wires. Make sure they're all clean man, this really sounds like a ground issue.
Other things it could be are a Coolant temp sensor (ECTS), poor engine ground to valve cover, poor engine ground from alternator to frame on right side, CPS, CKPS, but the last two should throw a code.
After repeated cranking it can foul the o2's and plugs so it compounds the problem. I'd let her sit for a bit with the battery disconnected, like overnight if you can. Then go at it tomorrow with fresh grounds
12-23-2011, 05:25 PM
#15
Make sure the cps is as flush up against the block and trans as much as possible, I did a clutch/flywheel last week and we didn't tighten it enough and got crank no start, Im sure it's tight but those things are fidgety.After we tightened it she fired right up.
12-23-2011, 06:42 PM
#17
Real quick question. How does one time a flywheel I've done over 50 clutch and flywheels at work never heard of "timing a flywheel" stock.or after market.
12-23-2011, 09:11 PM
#18
It's possible that the starter is pooched too don't rule that out just cause it's cranking.
Easiest way is to have someone use a jumper cable from the negative terminal to the starter housing. You may want to have someone crank it while you bypass the trigger/solonoid too (sounds like you know how to do that, you seem educated).
Easiest way is to have someone use a jumper cable from the negative terminal to the starter housing. You may want to have someone crank it while you bypass the trigger/solonoid too (sounds like you know how to do that, you seem educated).
If you have an aftermarket flywheel, it doesn't have that "gear" on it, so you have to get it taken off the stock dual mass flywheel and somehow get it to work with the aftermarket one. I haven't looked up how to do this, but basically that's the gist of it.
I'll post back with updates tonight once I get home from work. Thanks again for all the responses, lets keep the idea's coming if you have anything else!
12-23-2011, 10:15 PM
#19
Can it be bypassed with adding additional grounds? I really, really don't want to take that transmission back out. Also, I used the alignment tool, so I assume the clutch disk is properly aligned with the engine/trans input shaft. The only thing I realized after putting it all together is I forgot all of the washers for the pressure plate bolts.
I'll do whatever I can to ground out the engine/transmission temporarily before I make it permanent. I'll give those two a shot tonight and see what comes of it. Thanks for your input man, I appreciate it.
It doesn't seem flush against the bell housing; however, it is flush against the engine. I'll post up a picture tonight when I get back home.
On the flywheel there is a timing "gear" so to speak-- the crank sensor picks up information on crank location based on that "gear"
If you have an aftermarket flywheel, it doesn't have that "gear" on it, so you have to get it taken off the stock dual mass flywheel and somehow get it to work with the aftermarket one. I haven't looked up how to do this, but basically that's the gist of it.
I'll post back with updates tonight once I get home from work. Thanks again for all the responses, lets keep the idea's coming if you have anything else!
I'll do whatever I can to ground out the engine/transmission temporarily before I make it permanent. I'll give those two a shot tonight and see what comes of it. Thanks for your input man, I appreciate it.
It doesn't seem flush against the bell housing; however, it is flush against the engine. I'll post up a picture tonight when I get back home.
On the flywheel there is a timing "gear" so to speak-- the crank sensor picks up information on crank location based on that "gear"
If you have an aftermarket flywheel, it doesn't have that "gear" on it, so you have to get it taken off the stock dual mass flywheel and somehow get it to work with the aftermarket one. I haven't looked up how to do this, but basically that's the gist of it.
I'll post back with updates tonight once I get home from work. Thanks again for all the responses, lets keep the idea's coming if you have anything else!
In some cases maybe but i bought a Fidanza and didn't re-use the timing ring and the car starts and drives fine.
12-23-2011, 10:48 PM
#20
Any codes? I know how it feels to put it all back together and it not turn over man. Check and double check those grounds. Maybe try starting it by having someone push it? lol..but seriously...if you get desperate..
Also recheck those sensors.
Also recheck those sensors.
12-24-2011, 01:01 AM
#21
Just spent some time adding a bunch of temporary grounds. I took the jumper cables and put them from the battery ground to the starter housing, the starter bolts, everywhere and anywhere I could think of on the engine and transmission. Nothing has made even a slight difference. The car will still sputter but not catch. I got home and for the first few cranks it wouldn't even fire at all, then it would eventually start to catch. With all these grounds i've added, I am really starting to doubt it's a ground issue. I'm going to look at the flywheel and make sure the crank gear thing is spinning true. I suppose it's possible it could've gotten bent in the process of removal/refinishing/assembly.
If nothing comes out of all of this, I guess i'll remove the transmission again and sand down the mating surfaces. This whole thing is ridiculous.
If nothing comes out of all of this, I guess i'll remove the transmission again and sand down the mating surfaces. This whole thing is ridiculous.
12-24-2011, 02:28 AM
#22
When it cranks is the crank smooth or does it break up ? If it's choppy it's probably CPS releated but if not..
I hate to say it but it sounds like the flywheel might not be in right, meaning it's too far away from the CPS to get a reading.
What year car is it and what clutch/flywheel did you use ? You don't need to ad grounds or sand down the bellhousing on 5 or 6 speeds, I have done a 97,01 and 03 and never did that and never had a problem. Try taking the bolt that holds the cps out and centering it as best you can..DO NOT over tighten because it's easy to snap that bolt, ask me how i know,
It sucks when you do a big job like this and your excited to drive it and something stupid happens, Happened to me many times, Check your starter connections too, Take your time and good luck
I hate to say it but it sounds like the flywheel might not be in right, meaning it's too far away from the CPS to get a reading.
What year car is it and what clutch/flywheel did you use ? You don't need to ad grounds or sand down the bellhousing on 5 or 6 speeds, I have done a 97,01 and 03 and never did that and never had a problem. Try taking the bolt that holds the cps out and centering it as best you can..DO NOT over tighten because it's easy to snap that bolt, ask me how i know,
It sucks when you do a big job like this and your excited to drive it and something stupid happens, Happened to me many times, Check your starter connections too, Take your time and good luck
Last edited by 036mtmax; 12-24-2011 at 02:32 AM.
12-24-2011, 08:55 AM
#23
It does sound like it's not a ground issue then, as stated, go at the CPS next. The only other sensor that is important as I recall, is the ECTS, but that usually causes a sputter no start, not fully no start (if that makes sense)
12-24-2011, 09:11 AM
#25
No one mentioned the obvious stuff, like double checking plugs for the CKPS, etc, and making sure no wires got pinched by the bell housing (common) during install.
These are the simple things even the best mechanics miss, so do yourself a big favour, take a big breath and go over everything bit by bit with a nice flashlight, take your time, it really sounds like it could be something quite silly. \
It's not impossible, but just unlikely that anything that wasn't removed is suddenly the cause of failure. The ECTS falls into that category I think.
I would be removing and inspecting the CPS and CKPS, wipe them clean and inspect the mating surfaces and hole, ensure they're clean and flush, and just have a peek at the wiring make sure nothing got pinched.
If it's nothing obvious, you'll need to systematically test the CPS via FSM procedures, this will rule out possible wiring or CPS issues if there are any.
These are the simple things even the best mechanics miss, so do yourself a big favour, take a big breath and go over everything bit by bit with a nice flashlight, take your time, it really sounds like it could be something quite silly. \
It's not impossible, but just unlikely that anything that wasn't removed is suddenly the cause of failure. The ECTS falls into that category I think.
I would be removing and inspecting the CPS and CKPS, wipe them clean and inspect the mating surfaces and hole, ensure they're clean and flush, and just have a peek at the wiring make sure nothing got pinched.
If it's nothing obvious, you'll need to systematically test the CPS via FSM procedures, this will rule out possible wiring or CPS issues if there are any.
12-24-2011, 12:09 PM
#26
I had a CKPS go bad on me after an oil change, confused me to no end-- I spent hours trying to figure out what I had done to it. It was purely coincidental, so I know that things can get messed up. However, it threw a code and actually did start and run, it just took 2x the cranking of the engine before it fired. I assume since there is two ckps' that it would still start; however, I think there is only one crank sensor? I couldn't find another one on the 3.5, while my old 3.0vq had two.
I used a come-along strap and a cherry picker to help me with the transmission. I am pretty sure it pinched some wires that go towards the rear of the transmission housing. I believe those are for the speed sensor and probably something to do with which gear is selected and/or reverse light. I didn't figure those would cause a starting issue but i'll run through those and make sure I didn't damage any of the wires.
I still need to check to make sure the crank position gear/wheel is true, hopefully I can get someone to help me with that tonight.
When you say it's common to have wires pinched installing the transmission, which one's are typical? I thought they were all pretty far out of the way with the exception of the crank sensor wiring, which I made sure was out of the way.
I'll figure it all out eventually, just panicked because I go on a road trip tuesday, and with Christmas there is little to no time to diagnose problems.
I used a come-along strap and a cherry picker to help me with the transmission. I am pretty sure it pinched some wires that go towards the rear of the transmission housing. I believe those are for the speed sensor and probably something to do with which gear is selected and/or reverse light. I didn't figure those would cause a starting issue but i'll run through those and make sure I didn't damage any of the wires.
I still need to check to make sure the crank position gear/wheel is true, hopefully I can get someone to help me with that tonight.
When you say it's common to have wires pinched installing the transmission, which one's are typical? I thought they were all pretty far out of the way with the exception of the crank sensor wiring, which I made sure was out of the way.
I'll figure it all out eventually, just panicked because I go on a road trip tuesday, and with Christmas there is little to no time to diagnose problems.
12-24-2011, 04:00 PM
#27
When it cranks is the crank smooth or does it break up ? If it's choppy it's probably CPS releated but if not..
I hate to say it but it sounds like the flywheel might not be in right, meaning it's too far away from the CPS to get a reading.
What year car is it and what clutch/flywheel did you use ? You don't need to ad grounds or sand down the bellhousing on 5 or 6 speeds, I have done a 97,01 and 03 and never did that and never had a problem. Try taking the bolt that holds the cps out and centering it as best you can..DO NOT over tighten because it's easy to snap that bolt, ask me how i know,
It sucks when you do a big job like this and your excited to drive it and something stupid happens, Happened to me many times, Check your starter connections too, Take your time and good luck
I hate to say it but it sounds like the flywheel might not be in right, meaning it's too far away from the CPS to get a reading.
What year car is it and what clutch/flywheel did you use ? You don't need to ad grounds or sand down the bellhousing on 5 or 6 speeds, I have done a 97,01 and 03 and never did that and never had a problem. Try taking the bolt that holds the cps out and centering it as best you can..DO NOT over tighten because it's easy to snap that bolt, ask me how i know,
It sucks when you do a big job like this and your excited to drive it and something stupid happens, Happened to me many times, Check your starter connections too, Take your time and good luck
How is it possible to be too far away? Could the flywheel not have slid on fully? I definitely made sure that thing was tight, and I tightened them down in sequence.
It cranks smooth for the first few tries cranking it, but as I crank it more it will break up.
I'll try to center the CPS as best as I can, I'll report back shortly.
Last edited by q.man06; 12-24-2011 at 04:02 PM.
12-24-2011, 04:09 PM
#28
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: long island
Posts: 4
did you change the fly wheel? when i did my clutch i changed the flywheel n did not align it. put ewverything back together n it jus cranked. i had to take it back apart re align the flywheel , n then it started... flywheel has to be time
12-24-2011, 04:56 PM
#29
So I have some success. I unplugged the crank sensor, and she started right up. Threw a pending code (meaning didn't show a CEL) for po335 which is the crank sensor. Now, here's the crazy part. I plugged in the crank sensor while it was running, which gave me my tach signal back. I went to clear the code, and as soon as I cleared the code the car dies. If I keep the pending code in there, it will run OK, not great, but OK. I drove it around the block, and it would die when coming back to idle if I didn't let the revs drop slowly.
Any ideas?
Wait, this just occurred to me. Did I need to align the flywheel with a mark on the block? I just slapped it on there and bolted it down.
Any ideas?
Wait, this just occurred to me. Did I need to align the flywheel with a mark on the block? I just slapped it on there and bolted it down.
Last edited by q.man06; 12-24-2011 at 05:00 PM.
12-24-2011, 05:36 PM
#32
At least you found your problem, it happens to the best of us.
01-04-2012, 02:11 PM
#33
Well, Christmas day my civic had the clutch fork break, so day after Christmas I took the maxima back apart and clocked the flywheel properly. God permitting, I did it in 5 hours start to finish. I've driven it ~1500 miles since then and it's all good!
Thanks again guys, I always appreciate the help!
Thanks again guys, I always appreciate the help!
10-15-2013, 03:18 PM
#37
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 24
I think I am in the same boat! Arrhh
Well, Christmas day my civic had the clutch fork break, so day after Christmas I took the maxima back apart and clocked the flywheel properly. God permitting, I did it in 5 hours start to finish. I've driven it ~1500 miles since then and it's all good!
Thanks again guys, I always appreciate the help!
Thanks again guys, I always appreciate the help!
All thanks for your help on this I think that I am in the same boat.
I have to pull the tranny and do mine over as well.
New clutch and flywheel.
Argh!
But I couldnt figure out for the life of me why the car wouldnt start. and well looks like you all gave me the answer!
Thanks
Nate
10-15-2013, 05:30 PM
#39
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 24
Does this apply to 4th gens as well
All thanks for your help on this I think that I am in the same boat.
I have to pull the tranny and do mine over as well.
New clutch and flywheel.
Argh!
But I couldnt figure out for the life of me why the car wouldnt start. and well looks like you all gave me the answer!
Thanks
Nate
I have to pull the tranny and do mine over as well.
New clutch and flywheel.
Argh!
But I couldnt figure out for the life of me why the car wouldnt start. and well looks like you all gave me the answer!
Thanks
Nate
Thanks for your insight.
Nate
10-16-2013, 04:55 PM
#40
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 24
Didnt hear back as to 4th gen vs 5th on this issue
Does the issue with the clutch in this thread apply to 4th gens? I looked in my manual and at the old clutch and did not see any holes to line up.
THanks,
Nate