EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

I have been convincing myself to lower my ride in the near future. I have read pleanty of threads on the subject, and have narrowed down my options to the following:

1) Vogtland Springs in Front / Tein H-Techs in Rear
2) Tein H-Techs All Around

My decision is based on the objective of compromising ride quality as little as possible, improve handling/cornering stability and eliminating the appearance of the front end sitting higher due to the huge wheel gap.

That being said, I opted not to go with H&R's because my car sits a little lower than usual (I suspect my coils are weak, but I don't mind because it looks better and rides great, although on bigger dips it seems to almost bottom out - no strut rebound though) and it will end up looking the same, since H&R's don't drop the front much, and the overall drop is even, vs. a greater drop from the Teins. My solution would be H-Techs in the rear to minimize the drop and with either Teins or Vogtlands in front, at least aesthetically make the car look even, although it will probably be raked a bit. Here's what my car currently looks like with stock suspension:



It would seem that going with Teins all around should be my first choice, but I suspect that Vogtland is a better product, and I'm wondering whether the Vogtlands would offer the same ride quality. Not much is known of the Vogtlands for the A33, but I know the brand is the go-to choice on German vehicles. They have a sound reputation, arguably superior craftsmanship and as such, I'm looking for opinions and user experiences with these two brands.

From what I have read, the jury is still out whether the Vogtlands are harsher than the Teins. Of the little feedback I found, half say yes, half say no. Also, I have read that when they settle, they drop a little more than the H&R's, which would be ideal.

So then, please tell me your experience either or both of these springs (especially those of you who use/have used the Vogtlands) and your opinions on my project plans are equally welcome...

Genes1s

iTrader: (5)

Nathan,

I have H-Tech with GR2 shocks, this costed me roughly $550 shipped.
Compare to stock (stock was also 1 year old OEM shocks from previous owner):
No different in ride quality.
Not much stiffer either, but it does tighther on the sweeping ramps/corner.
Defenetly looks much better. Especially with your 18 and low offset (mine 17's low offest 350Z wheels), it only has 2 finger gaps. Trip to seattle with 3 luggages and 3 adults no problem.
Still drive like a boat in the corner though even with new stiffer bushings, RSB, and FTSB.

I was in the same boat 1 year ago researching what would be best to lower the car, now I wish I saved my money and go for CO.

kbcnd

iTrader: (2)

I'm currently on GR2 and Vogtlands in all 4 corners. It's not nearly as soft as stock, bumps are more noticeable, however, it has the ride and handing of a sports car and I absolutely love it. The drop is perfect, gets rid of the ugly fender gap but leaves enough space to be safe. Hope this helps.

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

I have been going back & forth on the issue of springs vs coilovers quite a bit too. I just hate the idea of having to rebuild them so often (I hear every 25K-30K). For me, that would be almost twice a year - way too much work at my lazy age...

Nexus67

iTrader: (23)

Your location says San Diego, w/ coils you would most likely be fine. With that said, I'm about to put on H-techs in the front (H&R's rear). Will let you know if you haven't decided by then

Genes1s

iTrader: (5)

Oh wow, seriously you travel 50K a year?? that puts it into perspective really. 25-30K is like 4-5 years for me (15 miles round trip daily).

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

I exaggerated a little, but an educated guess would be somewhere between 30K-40K mi per year. I'd still say rebuilding coilovers every year is still too much hassle

DMAXXX

Tein has never failed me yet!!!! H-Tech all around IMO

Prophecy99

iTrader: (1)

IIRC you are a DD, go with H&R or Eibach. I get the impression you are a set it and forget it kind of modder, and though H&R dosent have the perfect stance, you said you like how your rear sits now, you can allways just install the front H&R springs up front, and leave the back stock, that will be an even stance and you will not get any blown struts like any lower of a drop will inevitability do.

my vote H&R

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

Looks like you got my # right, as far as my Maxi being my DD, and I am pretty much a "set & forget" kind of modder - at least when it comes to suspension & electrical.

When I started thinking about a drop, I was dead-set on going with H&R's, but my brother got them for his '00 and the handling still feels sloppy. He's envious of the way my car handles - and I'm still on stock springs & struts! (only mods on suspension I've done so far are cheap-o FSTB & Stillen RSB). I do a lot more mountain and winding road driving than he does, and my biggest gripe is hitting dips in a turn and having the car rock & sway like a dinghy in a storm.

Based on his experience with the H&R's, I think I'd rather go a little stiffer to get some improvement on the handling. I do think the Eibachs may be the closest option for what I'm considering, but my research so far points to the Vogtlands being a superior product. Just wish there was more info on them as they apply to the A33 and I found them for $206.99 which is what makes them so tempting...

Rods03Max619

iTrader: (5)

I had Tokico Blues and Eibachs, it was a good ride, no complaints at all, can't speak on the other springs, on COs now....Good Luck....

kbcnd

iTrader: (2)

This is exactly what I did

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KYB-4-STRUTS...r#ht_500wt_922

Prophecy99

iTrader: (1)

You cannot forget what shocks he had, that can change everything.. literally. Did he just lower it on stock shocks? blues? when I have illuminas set high (4-5) and its night and day from soft shocks aka illuminas set low(1-2).
He also might have been feeling your subtle yet bang for buck suspension mods for the maxima. Those 2 mods put together probably have similar impacts to feel of handling as much as lowering by itself. And you allready have those mods so imagine how much better H&Rs will feel for you. I drive mountains alot also, and no complaints here.
Thats pretty cheap for Vogtlands, i got H&Rs for $220 shipped in 07', what are the inches F R for Vogtlands?
IIRC H&R= 1.4F 1.3R
just checked shiftice
Vogtlands= 1.4F 1.4R

so... thats even worse of a rear end sag??

Clashez

iTrader: (5)

Why not get some ebay coilover sleeves and be the org's lab rat

T_Behr904

Do not mix-match springs. A set of springs is designed to balance the handling of that car with specifically designed spring rates.

If you want to improve handling and lower the car, save up for coilovers. That way, if you set the ride height a certain way, and you want to make adjustments, you can do that. You can also adjust the dampening to how soft or firm you want it to ride. Want to take a 1,000 mile road trip? Set it to be comfy. Want to thrash some cones at your local autocross? Set it to firm. It's a win-win situation for all situations, and you're not stuck with just one setup.

Clashez

iTrader: (5)

^^^^ take it from this guy he rolls stock lol... op get ebay coilover sleeves lol

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

I was going to order the Illumina's, but I have decided to just do springs on existing shocks for now, just to test the effects while a good bargain on coilovers rolls around.

ebay coilover sleeves ftl - don't want to be on the 'orgs obit section

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

Well, tell us what your experience has been: are the shocks stiff? comfy? Did they get rid of the wheel gap? Do you like the stance, or does the rear lag? Pics??? Do tell!!!

My bro is running the H&R's on KYB GR2's. Suspension ride is cush, but the handling is sloppy. Still to much gap in the front. I'll admit, I probably do have the upper hand with my existing mods but still, I want to put my $ on what will yield the best results. As far as the even drop on the Vogtlands, I read a couple reviews stating they made the front look higher than the rear, and a couple other stating the car looked even. I'd really like to see some pics of 5th Gens sporting them so we could all see for ourselves.

I have done some research on this and although I have read plenty of articles stating it's okay to mix & match, as long as the fronts & rears are paired (compared to having different F/R spring rates), I still share your concern. I'm wiling to give it a try because I have the Stillen RSB in the back. Otherwise, I probably would not chance it.

T_Behr904

You don't know what or how I roll.

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

Well, unbeknownst to me, my brother had only installed the H&R's on the front of the car, and was still riding stocks on the rear. He installed the rears yesterday and it certainly was an impressive improvement in handling and performance. Rides very comfortable as well. Overall much better results than I expected - I think it's safe to say he has much less wash-out than I do now.

Only complaint is that there's still a little too much fender gap and the rear looks like it's sagging.

Prophecy99

iTrader: (1)

http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...-new-pics.html
with a mild drop from h&r on the front only its not too bad

Nexus67

iTrader: (23)

http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...pics-here.html

Exactly what you need to look at.

kbcnd

iTrader: (2)

These are my thoughts, I posted it early, before the link. It's definitely stiffer than stock, I absolutely love how it rides though, sits a far amount lower all around, the back wheels are slightly tucked which I like. I can take pics later if you want. The highway drive on them is amazing, very smooth and comfortable. More pleasant than stock IMHO.

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

Your pics don't show!

Thanks for the info - yeah, pics would be great.

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

That looks awesome - just what I am looking to do. With the Vogtland front/Tein rear combo, I would end up with the slightest less drop overall (0.2" less in front, 0.3" less in rear), but more of a rake effect. Sounds like the setup I'm contemplating might be a little stiffer too, but if that means better handling, it might be worth the while. Just so hard to make these decisions without a "hands-on" experience prior to purchase...

Nexus67

iTrader: (23)

QFT. Honestly, that thread is what made me decide on the H-tech fronts (still have to install). I LOVE my H&R's but the gap is just too much. I looked into Vogtlands but wasn't sure if it was going to be much lower than H&R

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

^ according to the numbers put out by shift_ice (http://www.shiftice.com/spring_strut_decision.html), the Vogtlands give about 0.13" more drop than the H&R's, but from the few pics I have seen of Vogtlands, the drop seems slightly more aggressive than that (once fully-settled in). That's why I was hoping for someone to post some pics of them here. Granted, it seems the -Techs will give you twice that over the H&R's.

For that ewxtra tenth-of-an-inch or so, Vogtlands appear to offer a much sturdier spring rate though.

Nexus67

iTrader: (23)

True; some threads have folks saying the Vogt's ride similar to H&R but have a more aggressive drop as you said.

I was afraid to commit to Vogt's b/c I have a manual which tends to sit higher than autos.

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

Another reason I'm leaning toward the Vogt's is because i was talking with a mechanical engineer a few days ago (in fact, the day before I started this thread), and he was telling me to stay away from the Eibachs because when the U.S. company bought the business, they started cutting corners by using different metal compounds than the originals, and dipping the coils in water after they coil them, which really compromises the tempering process. He explained to me that the German method of oil dipping is the best method, which offers the highest quality spring. I researched the Vogt's and that's exactly how they are made.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

If your trying to say Eibach makes a bad spring them you havent been around the tuning scene for very long and neither has this "mechanic". They make some of the best

Nexus67

iTrader: (23)

Wow I never heard that before lol. Not that it matters b/c I most likely won't have Eibachs on my cars anymore. I had them on my Talon before I had the Tein's and while the handling was excellent, the ride wasn't for the daily-type (which my Talon was at the time).

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

1) He's not a "mechanic," he's an engineer;
2) He's been around the scene much longer that probably you and I put together; and
3) I never said - nor did he, that it was a bad spring. He said they're not the quality they used to be, and told me what to look for in a top-performing one.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

Eibach has a quality control dept. and most aftermarket companies do not. They make f1 springs for goodness sakes lol. They might not be the best made for any individual application but in general they are some of the bet out there PERIOD. Im not sure if they were ever bought out, could not find any articles on that, but I know they started off as a family company in germany making industrial grade springs but moved on later.

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

Please read the above again - I did not design any of the available springs, nor have I tested them all, so I'm not about to make unfounded statements as to which is the best, who actually implements effective quality control, etc. All I can say is to each his own, different strokes for different folks.

I'm just looking to make an informed decision here, so if you have some reliable, proven facts to add to the topic, please do so. Otherwise, please don't ***** my thread.

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

That's along the lines of what the engineer explained to me is what happened.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

Im partial to Eibach so I got the Ground Control system and it is wonderful. Can lower it down for track days and I have them paired with AGX, which is not available for your gen but the GR-2's are, and can adjust the compression and rebound from stiff to soft for DD. I would get Eibachs and GR-2's if I were you. Mild drop but it will still be comfortable.

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

Eibachs are known to be among the stiffest springs out there for the A33. 10 years ago I would have gone for that, hands down. I'm older and creakier now, and have a wife & 2 kids that occasionally ride in my car. As such, they are no longer the spring of choice for me. Easy to see why it would be the preferred choice for others though.

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

Just to let you know that I'm not biased against Eibach - today I received my Eibach camber adjustment bolts

Rods03Max619

iTrader: (5)

So which springs are you going with....

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

I went ahead and ordered the Vogtland set, and have a set of rear H-Techs on the way as well. So it will be Vogt's in front, Tein H-Techs in rear - I really hope the Vogts don't leave as much gap as the H&R's...

Will update with pics after install!